- 7,025
- United States
I wish I could find what spec the Dyson car finished Petit '13 and compare it to this.Watch it suddenly becomes like the fastest car in the field.
http://files.ctctcdn.com/db5636c9001/584a62f9-7a69-4344-81f9-fcc6b3170101.pdf
2015 TUDOR United Sportscar Championship
- Thread starter MonGnoM
- 3,449 comments
- 144,849 views
http://files.ctctcdn.com/db5636c9001/584a62f9-7a69-4344-81f9-fcc6b3170101.pdf
- 9,554
- Vermont
- catamount39
- 7,025
- United States
I found the old Imsa site but all of the pdf links are dead. http://imsaracing.info/newpage2a.cfm?p=/posting/postingtest.cfm
- 9,554
- Vermont
- catamount39
- 6,277
- Tecumseh, MI
- I_Fail_At_FPS
It would seriously have to try to be worse than the Dieactiv. Mazda would have been way more competitive with that engine if they just stuck with it instead of going diesel.
- 9,554
- Vermont
- catamount39
Mazda! Avenge the LMP2's! 
Seriously. That chassis with this "new" engine is gonna be one heck of a thing.
- 6,277
- Tecumseh, MI
- I_Fail_At_FPS
I wonder how they would look with the old Speedsource RX-8 livery from their Grand-Am days.
- 9,554
- Vermont
- catamount39
Matte black with Castrol sponsorship? EPIC.
- 24,663
- Anoka, MN
- 6,277
- Tecumseh, MI
- I_Fail_At_FPS
It's been reported that the France family (via ISC) have been in talks regarding the outright purchase of Laguna Seca.
http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/racing/stock-car-firm-takeover-laguna-seca/
http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/racing/stock-car-firm-takeover-laguna-seca/
- 35,592
- Addison,Texas
- GTP_RACECAR
- 7,025
- United States
And the gas Mazda has been withdrawn. http://www.racer.com/imsa/item/118482-imsa-mazda-pulls-gas-powered-turbo-p2-entry-from-watkins-glen
- 9,554
- Vermont
- catamount39
Well uh...yeah Mazda should think about a GT car at this point. Just kidding lol, hope to see it at the next round.
Just kidding lol, hope to see it at the next round.
- 9,554
- Vermont
- catamount39
Not like it's a completely off the wall engine either. Just a standard little AER engine. Mazda wat u doing? 
- 7,025
- United States
Some useful insight and freedom fries nonsense from Marshall Pruett regarding the future of the prototype class. http://www.racer.com/more/viewpoints/item/118497-pruett-p2-s-paradigm-shifts
Honda is having more than its fair share of struggles this year, starting with aerodynamic issues that sidelined its new ARX-04b P2 chassis (ABOVE, Marshall Pruett photo), but racing aside, Honda continues to serve as one of the biggest advertisers and supporters in any series where it maintains a factory presence. Thanks to the ACO, IMSA can kiss that factory funding and those promotional dollars goodbye in 2017.
This is utter nonsense. Honda can still factory fund and power a P2 car in 2017 and promote the hell out of it. There is nothing stopping them from using a Ligier and letting Wirth build them a Civic ricer body kit.
A P2 car is comprised of three main items – the chassis, the engine (and associated drivetrain), and the bodywork. The ACO has laid out rules where its Le Mans/WEC teams must use all three with no changes, while IMSA is only planning on using one of those items – the chassis.
In the biggest head scratcher of all, IMSA continues to allow a French sanctioning body to dictate how American teams can use the two open items – bodywork and engines – they deny teams in Europe.
Based on the ACO's June 11 press conference, IMSA Prototype teams would be allowed to race at Le Mans with their factory engines from a Chevy or Mazda, for example, but IMSA teams would be forced to leave their manufacturer's custom bodywork at home. Seriously?
Long live Grand-Am and give me another order of freedom fries.
Those two examples can pretend all they want about being a "factory" team but Audi will spend more on its catering budget than GM will invest in a P2 engine and bodykit. The fact that the engines will be allowed is a huge concession by the FIA/ACO.
Let's run through a scenario where a few manufacturer-supported IMSA Prototype teams are given entries to race at Le Mans in 2017. We know the ACO has written manufacturers out of its P2 rules, and they've also made it abundantly clear to IMSA they do not want auto manufacturers coming to Le Mans and upsetting its spec P2 class. Carried to a logical outcome, it wouldn't be absurd to suggest a Chevy or Mazda could find it extremely hard to win at Le Mans in IMSA trim.
A win by an IMSA manufacturer is the worst possible outcome for the ACO. It's the Trojan horse situation they are determined to prevent. And while I don't believe the ACO would intentionally disadvantage American P2s, it's hard to imagine anything other than full ACO-spec P2s having the edge.
Look out for the black helicopters.
Every ACO P2 will be designed using the same engine, and the bodywork for each of the four chassis will feature specific airflow paths and volumes to cool those spec engines.
Take, for instance, a 2017 Chevy P2 engine – maybe it's a twin-turbo V6 that needs bigger radiators and additional airflow to pass through an intercooler. A Chevy IMSA P2 team would go to Le Mans, lose its custom body with tailored radiator/intercooler airflow, and be subjected to using its P2's stock bodywork. Would the stock body provide ample cooling? Would the Chevy's different radiators and intercooler create more drag or come with an aerodynamic disadvantage?
Will the Chevy engine, which the ACO has promised to performance balance against its spec P2 engines, have a chance after it receives whatever air restrictor, rev limit, or torque restriction is applied?
With all of those question marks, and there are more we can add to the mix, would any of IMSA's P2 manufacturers or teams actually consider taking their 2017 cars...sans custom bodywork...and with a one-off engine BoP...to race at Le Mans? Not if they want to win.
A interesting point about the stock bodywork. I would make sure the engine will work in a spec car before building any bodykit.
If they want to give Prototype a real chance to take off, they'll need to get creative. I've heard GT3-based engines have been discussed as a possible option in IMSA's 2017 Prototype class, and if that door is opened, it could, in theory, pave the way for relatively low cost bodywork-and-engine solutions from Aston Martin to McLaren to Porsche.
Rather than go the route of preparing all-new engines for IMSA P2, the option to fit existing, endurance-bred GT3 engines to the back of a Ligier, ORECA, or other chassis of interest could lead to a significant spike in car counts.
On an international front, there's no way the ACO would allow IMSA's GT3-powered P2s to turn a wheel at Le Mans, but I don't know if that actually matters. Thinking strictly of IMSA and its car count problems in Prototype, a GT3 solution that elevates the class, invites more manufacturers into American prototype racing, gives privateers a shot at creating their own chassis and GT3-based engine combinations sounds like a domestic route worth considering.
A interesting idea. 👍 `I have to wonder which companies will sell a GT3 crate engine, or lease.
The thing that was totally overlooked in this article was the affect this has on anybody from the ELMS or WEC who wants to run in the NAEC rounds. The BoP between the 2 concepts needs to be fair to the spec 4.0L P2 engine and whatever Imsa teams are using. Maybe the solution is to run a sub P2 class for the world spec P2 car alongside the GTP cars? Pro-am only entries would be allowed and they would have their own podium but if something weird happens can still win the race outright. Other than that I dont see how a world spec P2 car with its standard high downforce aero that is frozen in spec for 3 yrs will be able to compete with a Imsa GTP car that will be on a constant development curve would stand a chance at Sebring or Road Atlanta.
Honda is having more than its fair share of struggles this year, starting with aerodynamic issues that sidelined its new ARX-04b P2 chassis (ABOVE, Marshall Pruett photo), but racing aside, Honda continues to serve as one of the biggest advertisers and supporters in any series where it maintains a factory presence. Thanks to the ACO, IMSA can kiss that factory funding and those promotional dollars goodbye in 2017.
This is utter nonsense. Honda can still factory fund and power a P2 car in 2017 and promote the hell out of it. There is nothing stopping them from using a Ligier and letting Wirth build them a Civic ricer body kit.
A P2 car is comprised of three main items – the chassis, the engine (and associated drivetrain), and the bodywork. The ACO has laid out rules where its Le Mans/WEC teams must use all three with no changes, while IMSA is only planning on using one of those items – the chassis.
In the biggest head scratcher of all, IMSA continues to allow a French sanctioning body to dictate how American teams can use the two open items – bodywork and engines – they deny teams in Europe.
Based on the ACO's June 11 press conference, IMSA Prototype teams would be allowed to race at Le Mans with their factory engines from a Chevy or Mazda, for example, but IMSA teams would be forced to leave their manufacturer's custom bodywork at home. Seriously?
Long live Grand-Am and give me another order of freedom fries.
Those two examples can pretend all they want about being a "factory" team but Audi will spend more on its catering budget than GM will invest in a P2 engine and bodykit. The fact that the engines will be allowed is a huge concession by the FIA/ACO.Let's run through a scenario where a few manufacturer-supported IMSA Prototype teams are given entries to race at Le Mans in 2017. We know the ACO has written manufacturers out of its P2 rules, and they've also made it abundantly clear to IMSA they do not want auto manufacturers coming to Le Mans and upsetting its spec P2 class. Carried to a logical outcome, it wouldn't be absurd to suggest a Chevy or Mazda could find it extremely hard to win at Le Mans in IMSA trim.
A win by an IMSA manufacturer is the worst possible outcome for the ACO. It's the Trojan horse situation they are determined to prevent. And while I don't believe the ACO would intentionally disadvantage American P2s, it's hard to imagine anything other than full ACO-spec P2s having the edge.
Look out for the black helicopters.
Every ACO P2 will be designed using the same engine, and the bodywork for each of the four chassis will feature specific airflow paths and volumes to cool those spec engines.
Take, for instance, a 2017 Chevy P2 engine – maybe it's a twin-turbo V6 that needs bigger radiators and additional airflow to pass through an intercooler. A Chevy IMSA P2 team would go to Le Mans, lose its custom body with tailored radiator/intercooler airflow, and be subjected to using its P2's stock bodywork. Would the stock body provide ample cooling? Would the Chevy's different radiators and intercooler create more drag or come with an aerodynamic disadvantage?
Will the Chevy engine, which the ACO has promised to performance balance against its spec P2 engines, have a chance after it receives whatever air restrictor, rev limit, or torque restriction is applied?
With all of those question marks, and there are more we can add to the mix, would any of IMSA's P2 manufacturers or teams actually consider taking their 2017 cars...sans custom bodywork...and with a one-off engine BoP...to race at Le Mans? Not if they want to win.
A interesting point about the stock bodywork. I would make sure the engine will work in a spec car before building any bodykit.
If they want to give Prototype a real chance to take off, they'll need to get creative. I've heard GT3-based engines have been discussed as a possible option in IMSA's 2017 Prototype class, and if that door is opened, it could, in theory, pave the way for relatively low cost bodywork-and-engine solutions from Aston Martin to McLaren to Porsche.
Rather than go the route of preparing all-new engines for IMSA P2, the option to fit existing, endurance-bred GT3 engines to the back of a Ligier, ORECA, or other chassis of interest could lead to a significant spike in car counts.
On an international front, there's no way the ACO would allow IMSA's GT3-powered P2s to turn a wheel at Le Mans, but I don't know if that actually matters. Thinking strictly of IMSA and its car count problems in Prototype, a GT3 solution that elevates the class, invites more manufacturers into American prototype racing, gives privateers a shot at creating their own chassis and GT3-based engine combinations sounds like a domestic route worth considering.
A interesting idea. 👍 `I have to wonder which companies will sell a GT3 crate engine, or lease.
The thing that was totally overlooked in this article was the affect this has on anybody from the ELMS or WEC who wants to run in the NAEC rounds. The BoP between the 2 concepts needs to be fair to the spec 4.0L P2 engine and whatever Imsa teams are using. Maybe the solution is to run a sub P2 class for the world spec P2 car alongside the GTP cars? Pro-am only entries would be allowed and they would have their own podium but if something weird happens can still win the race outright. Other than that I dont see how a world spec P2 car with its standard high downforce aero that is frozen in spec for 3 yrs will be able to compete with a Imsa GTP car that will be on a constant development curve would stand a chance at Sebring or Road Atlanta.
- 3,585
- Phoenix, AZ
- GTP_Snaeper
I honestly think he's making a lot of good points and asking a lot of good questions regarding the future of the P2 class moving forward.
And given that there's not going to be any grandfathering permitted when they adopt whatever new rules they decide on for 2017, then it's going to mean a significant investment on behalf of the teams currently running DP's, which could mean we see one or two drop out or thin the ranks.
Unless they hit the nail on the head and make an exciting, affordable option that would encourage growth instead.
I like the idea of GT3 engines being adopted into the four chassis, which could give a good range of options with Standard or Manufacturer specific bodywork, while offering a potentially affordable format for using a wide array of engines. I can only druel at the prospect of every car (barring team cars) using a different combination of chassis, bodywork and engines. I think that IMSA should still allow teams to use the Spec engine for those who are interested in going to Le Mans, though.
And given that there's not going to be any grandfathering permitted when they adopt whatever new rules they decide on for 2017, then it's going to mean a significant investment on behalf of the teams currently running DP's, which could mean we see one or two drop out or thin the ranks.
Unless they hit the nail on the head and make an exciting, affordable option that would encourage growth instead.
I like the idea of GT3 engines being adopted into the four chassis, which could give a good range of options with Standard or Manufacturer specific bodywork, while offering a potentially affordable format for using a wide array of engines. I can only druel at the prospect of every car (barring team cars) using a different combination of chassis, bodywork and engines. I think that IMSA should still allow teams to use the Spec engine for those who are interested in going to Le Mans, though.
- 9,554
- Vermont
- catamount39
When and where is there a good live broadcast for the actual race today? Or is it really tomorrow at 10am?
- 10,276
- Sacramento CA
- cnd01
http://www.dailysportscar.com/2015/06/27/imsa-prototype-owners-and-entrants-weigh-in-on-p2-2017.html
Breaking: IMSA Prototype team owners (still) don't give a 🤬 about Le Mans. Guess who has been right about this the whole time...
Breaking: IMSA Prototype team owners (still) don't give a 🤬 about Le Mans. Guess who has been right about this the whole time...
- 24,663
- Anoka, MN
When and where is there a good live broadcast for the actual race today? Or is it really tomorrow at 10am?
It's really starting at 10AM tomorrow (It's a 6 hour race after all).
The impression I got wasn't that they don't care about Le Mans, it's that they want to go for overall wins which isn't something they can do.
- 9,554
- Vermont
- catamount39
Sweet, thanks! Just making sure that it wasn't a tape delay thing, also still getting out of the Grand-Am years of watching the race when it ended at night/dusk lol. Good, have something epic to watch tomorrow then.
On the Prototype note...I honestly don't get why DP teams don't just buy a GT3 car and go into GTD if they want to keep their own costs down. An LMP2 is a modern race car it's going to be pricey.
Or buy an LMPC car. Just stop ruining the party for the rest of us...the sportscar world can move on without your whining (aimed at DP owners).
