2016/17 Premier League & General Football Discussion

[Brend]

Is it?

I can't imagine going to a football game without the edge of potential defeat and the excitement in the hope of victory. Even Manchester United, in the Fergie era of dominance, knew they could lose the next game (and even the one after that). Celtic fans just don't have that these days (unless playing European football) - what's the next game you think you have any chance of losing?

Where's the thrill of the challenge? Even the Celtic fans I see on Twitter occasionally are so bored of it that they barely even mention their own team and games - it's all about ripping into Newco for some reason.

At the moment Celtic are like Manny Pacquiao punching the crap out of 11 primary school girls (at the rate of one a week). Wouldn't it be a little more interesting to watch if at least one of them was Kell Brook?

I go to every game never expecting to win. I've lived long enough to know that every win is important for the club. I know the history and how close they came to not existing anymore.

I know it's so easy for people to stroll in and look at the table, as if every game is a walk in the park. St Johnstone have came close to taking points off of us twice in 14 days. Very unfortunate today to be on the receiving end of some poor officiating which then derailed their performance.

I don't care about other fans who think 'this is boring' and choose to laugh at Rangers woes instead of focusing on their own club. As an individual, this team and club mean everything to me. I will never take anything for granted and everyone else is free to have their opinions on whether it's a meaningless league or whatever. True passion comes from being attached to your team. Recently, I've been treated to great football and resilience through a lot of injury troubles.

So, yeah it is great for me personally.

 

[mustafur]

It's Rangers first season back in top flight, combined with Celtic having significantly better form then last year is getting this result.

Aberdeen are keeping Rangers Honest despite a much smaller budget but I would expect next season Rangers will open that gap, many players Rangers signed this year have failed on them, and with more money coming their way with a likely 2nd and Europa league qualification they will be able to spend more as a result.

The fact is this league is dominated by the old firm and for any of the two to drop has devastating results for both sides and the league(For example Celtic losing Europe money as Scottish league loses UCL Group Stage spots and TV money with less people watching without Rangers).
Aberdeen is in a much better spot then before Rangers Fell but I would give the league a few seasons to get to the point it's better off then it was 6 or so years ago.

Once the new TV deals are sorted to include Rangers being in the top flight and the league recovering it's european spots lost without a second team getting european results you should see a big improvement, 10 years ago the league was very close to on par with Portugal.

 

[Famine]

I go to every game never expecting to win.

So do you think there's any chance at all of losing to Cally in the cup? Or Motherwell in the next league game? I mean, I know they lost to Lincoln Red Imps and all, but the bookies have Celtic 10/1 on to beat Motherwell.

Do you not fear the results of the utter lack of competition? Without weekly challenges domestically, Europe will forever be something to be knocked out of by February for Celtic and condemn the club to miss out on the best players in the world who want to win European trophies. Not only that, without another club playing close to the same standard the players will soon switch off in the league too - no challenge means no need to try.

I just don't see how it's 'great' for Celtic - or any club - to have no rivals. Rivals are what push you on to the next level.

 

[Brend]

It's Rangers first season back in top flight, combined with Celtic having significantly better form then last year is getting this result.

Aberdeen are keeping Rangers Honest despite a much smaller budget but I would expect next season Rangers will open that gap, many players Rangers signed this year have failed on them, and with more money coming their way with a likely 2nd and Europa league qualification they will be able to spend more as a result.

The fact is this league is dominated by the old firm and for any of the two to drop has devastating results for both sides and the league(For example Celtic losing Europe money as Scottish league loses UCL Group Stage spots and TV money with less people watching without Rangers).
Aberdeen is in a much better spot then before Rangers Fell but I would give the league a few seasons to get to the point it's better off then it was 6 or so years ago.

I don't think the budget is too different between Aberdeen and Rangers currently. A lot of Rangers signings are loaners and it looks like that'll be the case moving forward in the future...europa league looks like a pipe dream for them right now. In a really bad place performance wise.

@Famine - I tend to agree about the rivals part but unfortunately I'm not going to lose sleep because we don't have any. That's outwith mine and Celtic's control. Spot on about Europe point though with the current economic climate there's only so much Domestic challenge would even change. Too many big hitters in play now, definitely an awkward spot to be in.

 

[mustafur]

So do you think there's any chance at all of losing to Cally in the cup? Or Motherwell in the next league game? I mean, I know they lost to Lincoln Red Imps and all, but the bookies have Celtic 10/1 on to beat Motherwell.

Do you not fear the results of the utter lack of competition? Without weekly challenges domestically, Europe will forever be something to be knocked out of by February for Celtic and condemn the club to miss out on the best players in the world who want to win European trophies. Not only that, without another club playing close to the same standard the players will soon switch off in the league too - no challenge means no need to try.

I just don't see how it's 'great' for Celtic - or any club - to have no rivals. Rivals are what push you on to the next level.

I would say it's a bit early to write off Rangers as relics of a past era, it's their first season back in the top flight after financial destruction and are currently sitting 2nd, in the 90s when Rangers had their massive dominating run Celtic looked to be in the same position Rangers are in now.

But you still have to keep in mind Celtics form is the best it has ever been since Rangers dropped, look at the past years and they never had this kind of gap over the rest of the league.

 

[Famine]

They've had four seasons of unchallenged Champions League group stage cash! Of course they're further ahead than ever!

Incidentally, Newco have never been in the SPL before to be 'back' in it.

I don't think the budget is too different between Aberdeen and Rangers currently. A lot of Rangers signings are loaners

That applies to everyone. I've only been able to find four instances of disclosed transfer fees paid by Scottish clubs in the last two transfer windows and the totals look like this:
Hearts - £150k
Kilmarnock - £800k
Celtic - £6m

The rest are free, loan, undisclosed or 'compensation'...

 

[mustafur]

I don't think the budget is too different between Aberdeen and Rangers currently. A lot of Rangers signings are loaners and it looks like that'll be the case moving forward in the future...europa league looks like a pipe dream for them right now. In a really bad place performance wise.

Yeah but you still have to keep in mind Rangers are sitting on a TV budget that was given to them for being promoted and Aberdeen are sitting on a 2nd place budget for last season, Here is what the Current TV deal looks like for results in the SPL:
Position Equal share Top/bottom 6 Position based Total payout
1 £2,827,400
2 £2,025,600
3 £1,740,750
4 £1,529,750
5 £1,424,250
6 £1,318,750
7 £1,213,250
8 £1,160,500
9 £1,107,750
10 £1,055,000
11 £1,002,250
12 £949,500

Now compare that to what you get from the Championship:
Position Payment
1 £474,750
2 £400,900
3 £337,600
4 £274,300
5 £211,000
6 £189,900
7 £179,350
8 £168,800
9 £158,250
10 £147,700

You can see what i Mean by they are limited in what they can do this season, their revenue from Ibrox will still net them higher this year but next season it should be a big difference, it's a bit premature at this rate to write everything off.

 

[Liquid]

Celtic's dominance of the SPL is almost on par with TNS' of the WPL; 23 points clear with a GD of +65 and still unbeaten since April last season.

My WPL team is the team in 2nd place 23 points behind TNS and 2nd is all we can hope for. It's almost like two leagues in one. We've absolutely no chance of securing the title and that Champions League qualifying spot and I dare say that @Famine is right in that they will never progress any further on the continent without someone keeping the pressure on.

Sure, I know "no-one cares" about the Welsh domestic league because of how low the standard compared to the English and Scottish leagues but for those of us who do, having a team win 7 out of the last 10 titles (2 trebles, 4 doubles, 1 cupless season) makes the title race so uninteresting.

The only reason Barry Town and TNS are the two Welsh league teams people have heard of is because of their horrible winning streaks with all the financial clout and no competition. The seasons in between these eras were far, far, far better to watch.

 

[Touring Mars]

Celtic (and previously The Old Firm) are too big for the Scottish league - it's been 32 years since anyone else won the league. Rangers and Celtic have won the league 101 times between them - the league has only been won 19 times by anyone else. While this hasn't seen the demise of Scottish football thus far, the game is changing insomuch as Scottish football as a whole is no longer in the same league financially as our neighbours and European competitors. This being the case, Celtic (and possibly Rangers in the future) are going to find it harder and harder to attract the kind of players needed to compete at the highest level. I don't see this as their fault - it is the fact that Scottish football as a whole has not grown in tandem with the big clubs and has instead produced a 'big fish in a little pond' scenario. Celtic and Rangers are facing a situation where a move to the English league is about the only viable long term option left.

 

[88GTA]

Napoli are the epitome of beautiful football. Both Hamsik and Mertens getting hat-tricks after beating Bologna 7-1.

Meanwhile, AC Milan continue their losing streak after giving up a penalty in the 70th minute to Sampdoria and failing to score a goal.

 

[MUSC4EVER]

Want to talk about two managers under a lot of pressure right now, firstly Wenger, whose current deal with Arsenal runs out at the end of this season, should he be offered a new one? I don't think so.

Next is Ranieri, what a massive comedown from last season for him and Leicester, this is the biggest week of the season for them as they have Derby at home in a Cup replay and then Swansea away on Sunday, very real threat of relegation, there is talk of dressing room unrest but hat has been dismissed.

Also Cameroon won their fifth AFCON after beating Egypt 2-1 in the Final yesterday if anyone is remotely arsed.

 

[adamp93]

Want to talk about two managers under a lot of pressure right now, firstly Wenger, whose current deal with Arsenal runs out at the end of this season, should he be offered a new one? I don't think so.

I don't think Wenger will win the PL again so that's why I want him to go. It's the same thing every year and he's been the only constant over the past 13 seasons so some fresh ideas are needed.

 

[mustafur]

Arsenal 4th place champions.

 

[Dave A]

I don't think Wenger will win the PL again so that's why I want him to go. It's the same thing every year and he's been the only constant over the past 13 seasons so some fresh ideas are needed.

I wouldn't be quick to get rid of him though, you can be a lot worse than a regular top 4 team. You'd have to guarentee that a better manager is available and interested before losing him. Arsene is a good manager, unfortunately I think the clubhasn't spent enough in past years, that's not Wengers fault though, they've not had the funds the other top clubs have had thanks to the new stadium. Now that's paid for, the spending has gone up but Arsene does need to be willing to buy more players, I think sometimes he's too focused on waiting for the number 1 target to be available and ends up with no one becuase he refuses to drop to number 2 or 3 etc.

 

[Famine]

You'd have to guarentee that a better manager is available and interested before losing him.

Yeah, someone awesome like Pep Guardiola or Jurgen Klopp who'll come right in and take the league by storm.

 

[Dave A]

Yeah, someone awesome like Pep Guardiola or Jurgen Klopp who'll come right in and take the league by storm.

Exactley 💡. I actually think Jurgen will do well at Liverpool if they give him time like they did Rogers. Pep on the other hand has embarassed himself since coming to the Premier League, I think he came in and thought he'd walk it and has a divine right to win any league he has a go at. Well the premier league is a bit harder than La Liga and the Bundesliga and he doesn't seem to like that.

But if Arsenal got someone more proven like Carlo Ancelotti or Gus Hiddink they'd be alright. They're both top managers who have Premier League experience.

 

[Akmuq]

I don't see Wenger winning it if he had twenty years to do so, I believe he shouldn't be kept on and Arsenal should get a new manager if someone suitable is available.

It may knock them back a bit but I believe it's their best chance at winning a title. If they are happy getting 4th every year they might just keep him.

 

[m8h3r]

I don't see Wenger winning it if he had twenty years to do so, I believe he shouldn't be kept on and Arsenal should get a new manager if someone suitable is available.

It may knock them back a bit but I believe it's their best chance at winning a title. If they are happy getting 4th every year they might just keep him.

I think everyone in football fears de-stability, with Wenger giving Champions League football every year without fail.

 

[mustafur]

If the Board refuses to allow the manager to spend decent money on players though it doesn't really matter who is in charge results are not coming.

Wenger will likely go but I will expect arsenal to suffer more from it, the management in Arsenal are not capable of providing whats required to give realistic challenges each year, which means investing in the team rather then take profits out of it.

Here is a detailed explanation on Arsenals situation:

 

[lxmmy]

Opinion from an Arsenal fan:

Wenger isn't exactly the problem which @mustafur pointed out but it is the structure of Arsenal which quashes their potential as with every company with a majority shareholder having the bigger say in the picture and for this instance Kroenke. If you take a look at his quotes, he heavily emphasis about how he focuses on increasing brand exposure which is a very different attitude to say Abramovich. Kroenke has valued each share at around £11k which means he had priced any potential suitors and with the profits which turnover every year, it will be hard for Kroenke to let go of his shares but with Usmanov recently increasing his shareholding in the club and it won't be too long he would eventually become sick of Kroenke and just buy the majority stake.

----

Looks like Watford has been listening. (Exactly last year)

If they want a good young striker then they should go and hijack Niang of AC Milan. Definitely a one for the now and the future.

 

[88GTA]

Looks like Watford has been listening.

AC Milan loaned in Gerard Deulofeu from Everton to take Niang's spot.

 

[lxmmy]

AC Milan loaned in Gerard Deulofeu from Everton to take Niang's spot.

Where is Ocampos going to fit?

 

[Liquid]

Yeah, someone awesome like Pep Guardiola or Jurgen Klopp who'll come right in and take the league by storm.

Conte is doing alright, mind.

Let's see if he gets second season syndrome.

 

[88GTA]

Where is Ocampos going to fit?

Not sure really. He and Deulofeu will likely split time on the left wing but we will see.

The team needs a spark like when Locatelli first came in so maybe Ocampos can provide that. Deulofeu's pace is crazy though.

 

[Dennisch]

Since the antidoping agency WADA has ordered to close the Spanish antidoping agency AEPSAD in March last year, no player in Spain has been tested on doping, in any game played on Spanish soil.

 

[Liquid]

Why was the Spanish doping agency closed in the first place?

 

[Dennisch]

Why was the Spanish doping agency closed in the first place?

AEPSAD was declared non-compliant by the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) in March last year after failing to implement measures to correct the concerns that had seen it placed on the global organisation's 'watch list'.

 

[88GTA]

I just saw the highlights from AC Milan's match against Bolonga on Wednesday...

They managed to tough out a 1-0 win in the 89th minute through Pasalic (Chelsea loanee) with the assist from Deulofeu (Everton loanee) while being down two men. Looked like a great game but AC Milan made things tough for themselves.

 

[Liquid]

AEPSAD was declared non-compliant by the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) in March last year after failing to implement measures to correct the concerns that had seen it placed on the global organisation's 'watch list'.

And doing this with no plan in place to maintain testing?

Good job.

 

[MUSC4EVER]

Saturday
Arsenal v Hull (12.30 Sky)
Liverpool v Tottenham (5.30 BT)
Man United v Watford
Middlesbrough v Everton
Stoke v Crystal Palace
Sunderland v Southampton
West Ham v West Brom

Sunday
Burnley v Chelsea (1.30 Sky)
Swansea v Leicester (4pm Sky)

Monday Night
Bournemouth v Man City (8pm Sky)

We are at the stage of the season we there are big games every weekend, Liverpool v Spurs is big, Chelsea have a potentially tricky game away to Burnley who have one of the best home records in the league and Swansea v Leicester is a relegation six-pointer, first MNF of the 2017.