2016/17 Premier League & General Football Discussion

[Famine]

Yay for pedantic differences! Sure, you haven't specifically called anyone a fake supporter. Please explain, in detail, what you mean then when someone says they are a supporter of a club and you say that can not be true. The obvious implication is that you think they're faking support or a plastic fan, and you've done nothing to suggest an alternative explanation. So?

I'm entirely sure that people can wholly believe that they support more than one competing thing - many people do. I'm entirely sure that people can wholly believe that they love more than one person - many people do - but generally their partners are less accommodating of that belief. It's not for me to say that their belief is wrong, any more than it's for me to say that their belief in a deity is wrong (just why I think it is)...

... but to be a supporter means to support. Specifically it means 'one who brings forward', and if you push two things forward, they end up level and neither is forward, so either one is not fulfilling the role (and not a supporter) or they must put one further forward than the other.

It also means 'a partisan' - and that derives from 'one who belongs to a faction'. I think the meaning of that one doesn't need further explanation.

Also cheers for assuming I'm offended just because I call you out. As I said, the only reason I've bothered is I'm tired of seeing this merry-go-round come up every couple months when someone dares to call themselves a supporter of something.

If there was a way to put someone on an ignore list for only one thread I would have just done that and moved on. Since there isn't and you generally provide quality posts elsewhere on the site, I'd rather try to sort it out.

Here's a good way of 'sorting it out':
"I don't agree. Here's why: [point of discussion]."

Here's a bad way of 'sorting it out':
"[insult] [insult] 🤬 [insult]."

Which do you think your contributions have been?

So the way you support your team is the only way anyone can support any team?
Bit draconian. Good job someone made you king of the football universe so you can make those decisions for all of us though.

I can't even articulate how little I care about your opinion regarding how "real" of a fan I am of anything. I'm just tired of seeing you spout this same No True Scotsman bull:censored: in this thread twenty times a year.

No one cares if some bitter Wednesday fan thinks they're a 'fake' supporter. You've made your opinion clear plenty of times in the past. Give it a rest.

If you want to discuss the opinion, discuss it. If you don't - or don't care about my opinion, as it says there - don't. Those two posts aren't going to help either way.

 

[HighSeasHoMastr]

I'm entirely sure that people can wholly believe that they support more than one competing thing - many people do. I'm entirely sure that people can wholly believe that they love more than one person - many people do - but generally their partners are less accommodating of that belief. It's not for me to say that their belief is wrong, any more than it's for me to say that their belief in a deity is wrong...

... but to be a supporter means to support. Specifically it means 'one who brings forward', and if you push two things forward, they end up level and neither is forward, so either one is not fulfilling the role (and not a supporter) or they must put one further forward than the other.

It also means 'a partisan' - and that derives from 'one who belongs to a faction'. I think the meaning of that one doesn't need further explanation.

See, this is a reasonable explanation. I think it's overly pedantic but that's neither here nor there.

The issue I have is when you don't explain this and just start telling people off for "not being supporters" or whatever. If you want to hold this tight of a view great, but don't expect anyone else to share it.

This comes to a difference of definitions. Most people don't use the term in the way you appear to.

Here's a good way of 'sorting it out':
"I don't agree. Here's why: [point of discussion]."

Here's a bad way of 'sorting it out':
"[insult] [insult] 🤬 [insult]."

Which do you think your contributions have been?

Which do you think this was:

I did, in the post you took great offence to. You read it before taking offence, right?
Not responding would have been a clearer signal that you don't care. Especially as I didn't address you.

The fact you've responded twice, and with quite the attitude, suggests you care enough to be offended about it.
Again, I've not said anything about 'real' fans (or 'fake' ones) - just that one cannot support something if one does not want it to succeed.

If this offends you... oh well.

Again, I've not said anything about 'real' fans (or 'fake' ones) - just that one cannot support something if one does not want it to succeed.

If this offends you... oh well.

Also at 'bitter'. At least you care enough about me to remember who I support though, I guess.
Well, since you asked so nicely

Pretty great for you to call me out on tone when your reply was that rambling antagonist mess. My initial reply was firmly tongue-in-cheek with the 'king of the universe' remark, and you shot back with this.

But my tone was bad.

Also, I don't see how calling a spade a spade is an insult. The position you seemed to be taking was definitely a No True Scotsman (and honestly still is) so how is saying that an insult?
Calling you a bitter Wednesday fan seemed accurate. You're a Wednesday fan, and you're a Brit, so I'm sure you're bitter about something

If you want to discuss the opinion, discuss it. If you don't - or don't care about my opinion, as it says there - don't. Those two posts aren't going to help either way.

And if you want to defend an opinion, defend it. Don't attack the person calling you out because you're offended by their tone.
Posts like that aren't going to help at all.

 

[MUSC4EVER]

I get the feeling that I'm responsible for this....

 

[Famine]

See, this is a reasonable explanation. I think it's overly pedantic but that's neither here nor there.

The issue I have is when you don't explain this and just start telling people off for "not being supporters" or whatever.

Odd, as the post you objected to contained...

As soon as you want your team not to win, you're not supporting them, and if your two teams meet you either want one of them to lose (so you don't support them) or for them to draw (so you don't support either of them).

Pretty great for you to call me out on tone when your first reply was that rambling antagonist mess. My initial reply was firmly tongue-in-cheek with the 'king of the universe' remark, and you shot back with this.

But my tone was bad.

Uhh, actually my first reply was:

So the way you support your team is the only way anyone can support any team?

You can't support anything by wanting it not to succeed.

Good job someone made you king of the football universe so you can make those decisions for all of us though

Well, doesn't someone seem a teensy bit offended now?

Which I'm sure you could tell was just as 'firmly tongue-in-cheek' as yours...

If you want to hold this tight of a view great, but don't expect anyone else to share it.

I don't expect anyone else to share any of my views. It's not supremely important to me that they do. It's up to them - and I'm happy to discuss my views with anyone who asks.

 

[HighSeasHoMastr]

I get the feeling that I'm responsible for this....

Nah. I'm just bored.

I edited my above post as some of the initial information was inaccurate, and I added a bit of a longer explanation in one bit.

Odd, as the post you objected to contained...

Yes, which certainly seems to imply that someone calling themselves a supporter and then not confirming to your idea of what that means is wrong, which is what I object to.
Your definition of supporter is not the universal absolute..

Uhh, actually my first reply was:
Which I'm sure you could tell was just as 'firmly tongue-in-cheek' as yours...

See my edits above.

Edit: double posted. My bad.

 

[MUSC4EVER]

Alright whatever, Spurs just beat Arsenal 2-0 in the last North London Derby at White Hart Lane, quiet first 20 mins but then Spurs really kicked on with two goals in quick succession in the second half, brilliant by Spurs and it would have been seven if it wasn't for Cech in goal.

 

[Dennisch]

And for a bit lighter news.

Vitesse Arnhem have just won their first price since they were founded 125 years ago. The Dutch Cup.

 

[MUSC4EVER]

That's a long wait!

 

[Akmuq]

Kane now the highest Premier League NLD scorer. Also works as an excuse to post this video again.

 

[HighSeasHoMastr]

Fantastic for Vitesse! It's been a long time coming for them for sure.

North London Derby was a pretty exciting game. Spurs look so committed right now, but I just can't see Chelsea letting it slip away this late. They still have their fate in their own hands and I can't see them throwing it away a la Stevie G a few years ago
Son was fantastic in this one though. Really good to see him growing into the league.

The fight for 3rd & 4th is really tight though, with L'pool, City, and United all right in it, and Arsenal aren't quite dead in that fight yet either. Really tough to call that but United have the worst run-in of the lot.

Really tight at the bottom too. Middlesbrough are almost surely going down, but who is going to be the (un)lucky third team to join them? Hull? Swansea? Maybe Palace?

 

[MUSC4EVER]

Chelsea have got an easy run in, but you never know...

 

[88GTA]

And for a bit lighter news.

Vitesse Arnhem have just won their first price since they were founded 125 years ago. The Dutch Cup.

I've been following them this year because New Jersey native, former NY Red Bull and current Chelsea loanee Matt Miazga has been playing really well for them this season. Hopefully this can put him back into the US national team spotlight.

 

[MUSC4EVER]

Zlatan Ibrahimovic had successful knee surgery to repair ligament damage and is now re-habing in Pittsburgh, no timeline on his return....if he returns, Luke Shaw could have suffered ankle ligament damage, will be out for the rest of the season if so.

 

[88GTA]

What are the chances Alexis Sanchez plays Sunday against Man U and Wednesday at Southampton?

 

[daan]

Luke Shaw could have suffered ankle ligament damage, will be out for the rest of the season if so.

I think that's quite probably his last game for United.

 

[lxmmy]

What are the chances Alexis Sanchez plays Sunday against Man U and Wednesday at Southampton?

Wenger will most likely start him in both games especially at this stage of the season.

 

[C-ZETA]

I wish Aaron Lennon all the very best. Unlike the Mail and the Mirror, it seems.

 

[MUSC4EVER]

Good news for United. Jones, Smalling, Bailly and Pogba returned to training today, just in time too!

I wish Lennon well. 👍

 

[Brend]

Apt...

 

[Dennisch]

Okay, screwed scenario coming up.

Feyenoord wins the Eredivisie, wins the group stage CL ticket. Ajax comes second, wins the preliminary rounds CL ticket. Ajax also wins the EL and wins the group stage CL ticket.

Apparently we, the Dutchies, lose the preliminary rounds ticket if Ajax comes second, and wins the EL.

Why?

 

[Liquid]

Okay, screwed scenario coming up.

Feyenoord wins the Eredivisie, wins the group stage CL ticket. Ajax comes second, wins the preliminary rounds CL ticket. Ajax also wins the EL and wins the group stage CL ticket.

Apparently we, the Dutchies, lose the preliminary rounds ticket if Ajax comes second, and wins the EL.

Why?

Does the 3rd placed Eredivisie team go straight into the Europa group stage or must they go through at least one Europa qualifiers?

Maybe because of the Netherlands' low coefficient they are limited to a maximum of two CL places.

 

[Dennisch]

Does the 3rd placed Eredivisie team go straight into the Europa group stage or must they go through at least one Europa qualifiers?

Maybe because of the Netherlands' low coefficient they are limited to a maximum of two CL places.

Yup. 3 round ticket.

Which is Bullpoo, of course. The price of the tournament is an extra ticket.

Bullpoo I say.

 

[mustafur]

Yup. 3 round ticket.

Which is Bullpoo, of course. The price of the tournament is an extra ticket.

Bullpoo I say.

Not exactly, the only reason why spain has had 5 before is because when Sevila won the Europa league they where not in the top 4 in the league, had Ajax won the Europa league and came 3rd in the league there would be 3 for Netherlands.

 

[C-ZETA]

When they said they wanted the winners in the CL they actually meant it, since the group stage is what it's all about mostly. So that's why it overrules any league placement. And yes, if United wins it there could be five English teams in the CL, too. And the playoff round place for finishing fourth would be overruled, too. Although I do wonder how they'd change the playoff round as a result of that.

 

[ASH32]

I'm sure the extra place thing isn't happening anymore, UEFA changed it after a couple of years of one the major leagues getting 5 spots, either by winning the Champions or Europa League.

The Europa League winner will take the qualifying spot of the last league place (only difference is they get a group stage spot instead of qualifying), so if for example Man Utd win the Europa League they'll take the fourth qualifying spot and not the team who finishes fourth in the league.

I guess the extra Champions League qualifying round place then goes to a team from a minor country. I the internet will likely tell you somewhere, if you know where to look.



Edit:- From searching around it seems I'm wrong but I'm sure I read/saw it somewhere, maybe UEFA said they'd do it and then didn't, wouldn't surprise me. That or I dreamed it all but that would be an odd thing to dream about.



In short, ignore this post. :censored:

 

[MUSC4EVER]

Posting this weekends games a day early as there is a game on Friday Night.

Friday Night
West Ham v Tottenham (8pm Sky)

Saturday
Bournemouth v Stoke
Burnley v West Brom
Hull v Sunderland
Leicester v Watford
Man City v Crystal Palace (12.30 Sky)
Swansea v Everton (5.30 BT)

Sunday
Arsenal v Man United (4pm Sky)
Liverpool v Southampton (1.30 Sky)

Monday Night
Chelsea v Middlesbrough (8pm Sky)

Spurs can cut the gap at the top to just a single point with a win tomorrow night, I would say it'll put pressure on Chelsea but you expect them to breeze past Boro, a few big games at the bottom and in the top four race.

 

[Dave A]

It would make one hell of a finish if Boro take points from Chelsea, but I have a feeling that if Spurs are still in with a chance of the title when United play them they'll be more up for it than us. I would like to see Spurs lift the trophy over Chelsea but not if it comes down to beating United.

 

[jake2013guy]

Ugh. One of those godawful Friday night games.

 

[Liquid]

Ugh. One of those godawful Friday night games.

What's wrong with Friday night games? Having one or two isn't a crime against humanity. Back in the day it was quite common for lower league teams in major metropolises to have a game on Friday so people could watch Stockport on Friday night and Manchester [Blank] on Saturday afternoon; or Tranmere on Friday night and Liverpool/Everton on Saturday afternoon.

The only difference between then and now is that big teams mix it up and play the Friday game sometimes instead.

---

One top 92 casualty this week; Dermot Drummy was appointed Crawley manager in the summer, kept them up just about (7pts clear with 3pts left to play for) but has been given his P45. Fair play to someone who hadn't managed before.

4th May - Dermot Drummy (Crawley Town, sacked) League Two

Sackings: 35
Resignations: 10

Total: 45

45 managers out of 92 is some going considering I didn't count pre-season this time.

And the FA is "considering" reviewing betting and alcohol sponsors.

 

[jake2013guy]

What's wrong with Friday night games? Having one or two isn't a crime against humanity. Back in the day it was quite common for lower league teams in major metropolises to have a game on Friday so people could watch Stockport on Friday night and Manchester [Blank] on Saturday afternoon; or Tranmere on Friday night and Liverpool/Everton on Saturday afternoon.

The only difference between then and now is that big teams mix it up and play the Friday game sometimes instead.

---

One top 92 casualty this week; Dermot Drummy was appointed Crawley manager in the summer, kept them up just about (7pts clear with 3pts left to play for) but has been given his P45. Fair play to someone who hadn't managed before.

4th May - Dermot Drummy (Crawley Town, sacked) League Two

Sackings: 35
Resignations: 10

Total: 45

45 managers out of 92 is some going considering I didn't count pre-season this time.

And the FA is "considering" reviewing betting and alcohol sponsors.

The problem isn't the games themselves. I just dislike that Sky had a 90 minute build up for the first one.