2016 Formula 1 Grand Premio de MexicoFormula 1

[prisonermonkeys]

I see you wont let the U.S. gp last year go, I give you Suzuka every time, but the other one isn't as simple. I agree he could have been a bit more considerate due to the conditions they were in. For the actual situation to pop up...I doubt anything would come of it, it seems to always be seen as a racing incident unless it's blatantly obvious it is one person's fault, and that usually requires a wreck.

I'm looking at this from the position that Hamilton needs Rosberg to finish in third or lower to get himself back in the title fight. Hence, I wonder what view the stewards might take of such an incident, especially when Hamilton still has two reprimands hanging over his head. One could argue that Hamilton might deliberately force Rosberg wide, giving him an unfair advantage in the championship.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I'm looking at this from the position that Hamilton needs Rosberg to finish in third or lower to get himself back in the title fight. Hence, I wonder what view the stewards might take of such an incident, especially when Hamilton still has two reprimands hanging over his head. One could argue that Hamilton might deliberately force Rosberg wide, giving him an unfair advantage in the championship.

The point still stands, Mercedes aren't going to call an incident on their own driver for one. Two the overwhelming moves pulled over that past few years it's become a bigger issue and the only time I recall anyone getting in trouble was Rosberg, everyone else who got in trouble did so because they actually caused a wreck.

Hell the most recent case with Alonso and Massa should be evidence enough really. In the end it will be looked at as a racing incident of hard racing and since the most likely place for it to happen is at the start, that will make it even more murky due to how chaotic starts are to begin with. It will be the usual people that will claim it being so obvious one way or the other.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Mercedes aren't going to call an incident on their own driver for one.

They don't have to. The stewards can investigate incidents at their discretion.

In the end it will be looked at as a racing incident of hard racing and since the most likely place for it to happen is at the start, that will make it even more murky due to how chaotic starts are to begin with.

I'm sure that the stewards won't want to be seen as interfering with the outcome of a race (and potentially the championship). But at the same time, I doubt that they will look kindly upon a driver deliberately running a title rival wide at the start.

 

[mustafur]

If Rosberg has any issue with his car and DNFs and Hamilton wins, this title is completely open, since Mercedes hasn't been the most reliable this is certainly possible.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

They don't have to. The stewards can investigate incidents at their discretion.

Hence the second point I made.

I'm sure that the stewards won't want to be seen as interfering with the outcome of a race (and potentially the championship). But at the same time, I doubt that they will look kindly upon a driver deliberately running a title rival wide at the start.

Once again you'd be grasping, since there have been plenty of people ending up wide at the start of races. We've seen it several times this year alone, and I can't recall a single one at the start resulting in a penalty. Only when it becomes a blatant avoidable collision is there punishment. So unless that happens, I repeat, the likely hood of a call is slim and really only extends to those wanting to claim it was malicious. Which for F1 fans seems to be an easy leap.

If Rosberg has any issue with his car and DNFs and Hamilton wins, this title is completely open, since Mercedes hasn't been the most reliable this is certainly possible.

Rosberg does seem to have the luck though, when he's had issues they've been easy to repair and mainly before FPs or during them. The regular worries of over heated brakes have never truly been an issue. And other issues like mode or electronic gremlins have been able to be resolved in race, accept for Hamilton at Baku.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

We've seen it several times this year alone, and I can't recall a single one at the start resulting in a penalty.

But this is the first time that a championship is on the line.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

But this is the first time that a championship is on the line.

Uh no, the times you called it being unfair last year the championship was still theoretically possible for Rosberg. I've already made my point going over the same thing five more times isn't going to be productive. I think your wish for something to come of it, compared to the evidence that says otherwise are what is in conflict. If Rosberg pushes Hamilton wide or vice versa and both cars are intact and still able to race, then it's just hard racing. Good job to the victor of that, it's when people complain one way or the other that is an issue yet again, you talk about Hamilton solely, but what about Rosberg, he too could easily do it for the same reason Hamilton had in Japan. To be tough and close of the championship as quickly as possible.

Why no comment the other way, I think that's why an earlier user, discredited holding an argument with you in the first place.

As I said, this is a boring back and forth at this point, over a hypothetical that has enough evidence to say one way I feel. So moving on for me at least.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Uh no, the times you called it being unfair last year the championship was still theoretically possible for Rosberg.

First of all, I meant that it's the first time this year that a championship is on the line. Mexico is the first race where Rosberg can be champion, provided that he wins and Hamilton does not score.

Secondly, I honestly don't remember too much of the back end of the 2015 season. Once the championship leaves Europe, watching the races live becomes impractical for me, and it was happening at a time when my Year 12 classes were going into their final exams. I caught what I could, when I could, but once it became apparent that Hamilton was going to be champion, it wasn't too hard to find a reason not to pay close attention.

 

[daan]

One could argue that Hamilton might deliberately force Rosberg wide, giving him an unfair advantage in the championship.

And all Rosberg has to do is not be forced wide. Stand his ground. Hamilton loses more than Rosberg does if there's a collision.

 

[United6694]

I've been supporting Rosberg all year but I want him to win it now more than ever just so sky have to run a headline saying he's world champion...

No doubt it would hurt them to have to write that, some of the articles they have done in the past days/weeks have been insufferable, I get they are the British sky but sometimes it is so bad

I also don't get how people can say Rosberg wouldn't deserve the title, he's done what was needed to win it (if he does) and beat the other drivers plain and simple. I might be wrong but didn't he have quite a bad 2014 with issues on the car? If so I don't remember anyone saying Hamilton didn't deserve to win it that year.

 

[TheElbows]

PM,

I understand you feel you're making some form of logical argument that Hamilton should have won all of the races this year and he'd be world champion. I could make the same argument about Felipe Nasr or any other driver in the field. "Man, if Jenson Button had simply won 12 races this year he could have been world champion...".

Do you understand that argument is completely irrelevant when we're talking about 30+ points which were lost due to circumstances beyond the driver's control? I'd be making the same argument if Rosberg had blown and engine and was 30 points behind Hamilton (you probably wouldn't, I understand). How can you disregard a large portion of points lost due to a mechanical failure?

It's simple mathematics. If Hamilton loses by 30+/- points it will be a direct penalty from his mechanical issues. If he didn't have an engine blow-out and then lost the world championship by, say, five points - then yes you could go back and nitpick whatever nonsense you feel compelled to. It's simple math buddy.

 

[mustafur]

PM,

I understand you feel you're making some form of logical argument that Hamilton should have won all of the races this year and he'd be world champion. I could make the same argument about Felipe Nasr or any other driver in the field. "Man, if Jenson Button had simply won 12 races this year he could have been world champion...".

Do you understand that argument is completely irrelevant when we're talking about 30+ points which were lost due to circumstances beyond the driver's control? I'd be making the same argument if Rosberg had blown and engine and was 30 points behind Hamilton (you probably wouldn't, I understand). How can you disregard a large portion of points lost due to a mechanical failure?

It's simple mathematics. If Hamilton loses by 30+/- points it will be a direct penalty from his mechanical issues. If he didn't have an engine blow-out and then lost the world championship by, say, five points - then yes you could go back and nitpick whatever nonsense you feel compelled to. It's simple math buddy.

Not the same thing, for instance it doesn't account in how Hamilton will drive if leading the championship, there will be added pressure on top meaning it's a factor that hasn't been weighted.

 

[TheElbows]

Right, but that's an incalculable x-factor.

 

[mustafur]

Right, but that's an incalculable x-factor.

Exactly but it matters and it's something that makes your Statistics worthless without it.

 

[TheElbows]

Okay, I get it. We'll ignore 30+ points subtracted from a driver. Understood. Brilliant.

 

[mustafur]

Okay, I get it. We'll ignore 30+ points subtracted from a driver. Understood. Brilliant.

Your words not mine, besides you actually have to finish a race to get those points and we don't know what could of happened if it wasn't mechanical failure, Maybe he makes a driver error.

 

[TheElbows]

Yep, you're right. What was I thinking?

 

[Hun200kmh]

Lauda shoud've been the 75-76-77 champion. Pironi should've been the 82 champion*. Reutemann should've been the 1980 champion.

And Chris Amon definitely deserved to win many GPs.


IF ONLY ...

*I'd like Gilles, but Pironi was more WDC material

 

[sems4arsenal]

terrible from Rosberg so far.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

terrible from Rosberg so far.

FP1 don't worry

 

[sems4arsenal]

FP1 don't worry

He has been way off the pace this weekend in general. Doubt he'll start in the front two rows at this rate.

 

[Hun200kmh]

Ericsson, didn't see that one coming.

EDIT - Great work by Wehrlein!!

 

[sems4arsenal]

Manor>Haas

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

He has been way off the pace this weekend in general. Doubt he'll start in the front two rows at this rate.

I mean I don't doubt he is running a higher potential at not being in the top two spots...however, I wouldn't be so stressed yet. I've seen the two of them of plenty of times play FPs safe and then storm to the front in quali. He's still a threat.

 

[catamount39]

Manor>Haas

Didn't help Gutierrez choked and wrecked Grosjean's lap. To be fair Wehrlein was 8th for a moment right now.

 

[sems4arsenal]

I mean I don't doubt he is running a higher potential at not being in the top two spots...however, I wouldn't be so stressed yet. I've seen the two of them of plenty of times play FPs safe and then storm to the front in quali. He's still a threat.

Really weird if true, has he ever been that far off the pace? balance all wrong or pressure? start contrast to last year so far.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Really weird if true, has he ever been that far off the pace? balance all wrong or pressure? start contrast to last year so far.

I mean the car last year seemed more to his liking for the track like that of the one in Monaco. However we have seen Lewis and Nico at times come from being a top five qualifier to a top two in the course of a quali session. However, watching his onboard this session, he has no control over his car, it's not him it seems to be the car not doing what he expects or wants it to, so he could be in trouble.

 

[sems4arsenal]

I mean the car last year seemed more to his liking for the track like that of the one in Monaco. However we have seen Lewis and Nico at times come from being a top five qualifier to a top two in the course of a quali session. However, watching his onboard this session, he has no control over his car, it's not him it seems to be the car not doing what he expects or wants it to, so he could be in trouble.

Indeed, I'm thinking he got the setup of the car terribly wrong.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Indeed, I'm thinking he got the setup of the car terribly wrong.

I think he's trying quick fixes which are causing him more trouble then help. At this point I'd say he may start sixth and Lewis first or second.

 

[Jimlaad43]

I think he's trying quick fixes which are causing him more trouble then help. At this point I'd say he may start sixth and Lewis first or second.

It'll be 5th because Vettel will almost certainly get penalised for blocking Hamilton