2016 Formula 1 Großer Preis von Österreich

[Famine]

I have 'brake problems', so I shall brake very late for this high speed corner.

 

[axletramp]

Wolff called the incident 'brainless'. Obviously politically he couldn't place the blame on camera, but I don't get the feeling he was talking about driver who's just drafted half a car's length past and taken the wider cautious line leaving the defending car enough room to drift a bus. I'd say he was talking about the driver who knew he was beaten and decided not to even bother finding the apex. Dodgy brakes or not, you'd still have a go at turning in to fight the exit and following straight. Stewards appear to agree - we wait for their decision.

 

[Samus]

New evidence came out that a yellow flag came out just before Hamilton went to overtake.

This entire event won't be over for a long time!

It would be extremely harsh to penalise him when the flag starts waving the split second he goes past at high speed. To argue that he should have seen it would be tough.

Plus as has been said you're allowed to pass under yellow or the SC if another car is severely damaged. The fact the FIA are investigating Rosberg for unsafe driving of his damaged car suggests they believe his car was considered severely damaged.

 

[J_Starscream]

It would be extremely harsh to penalise him when the flag starts waving the split second he goes past at high speed. To argue that he should have seen it would be tough.

Plus as has been said you're allowed to pass under yellow or the SC if another car is severely damaged. The fact the FIA are investigating Rosberg for unsafe driving of his damaged car suggests they believe his car was considered severely damaged.

I do agree with that. But considering it's only that corner that is a yellow zone. Surely Hamilton could wait and overtake after the corner unless Rosberg pulls off.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

No attempt to turn into the apex.

There are two conventional lines through that corner. The outside line calls for the driver to turn in early, and steal the inside line for the next straight. The inside line has the driver turn later so that they're on the outside for the straight. Hamilton appears to be trying to go from the outside to the inside, but Rosberg is in the way; the move only works if you're behind driver you're attacking. The only way it would work is to drive clean around the outside through the corner, which I have never seen happen, and Hamilton clearly isn't far enough ahead to make it happen.

Also, Jenson Button did exactly the same thing to Felipe Nasr - braked and turned in late, leaving Nasr to back off or run wide. It's a perfectly legitimate move to make.

 

[MatskiMonk]

Team orders it is then. Neither driver can be trusted to what's best for their employer, this time it was Nico that was foolish, but they're both as bad as each other.

 

[DQuaN]

No, I'm saying that Rosberg's defensive move was entirely predictable and that Hamilton was not in a position to claim that he had gotten past. Even if they had avoided contact, Hamilton's only hope was to run wide on the exit. The pass wasn't happening. Given his position, he had to turn in or else be hung out to dry. He just turned sooner than Rosberg, hence the contact.

Also, that looked like a dangerous rejoin - I get that he was racing Rosberg, but you can't rejoin at speed like that. Especially when you know that there's a car there. You're accelerating into a wedge that's rapidly closing, and if you cross onto the grass, it's an accident waiting to happen.


You're going to need evidence of that, even if you're only suggesting it.

Do you not find it a little odd that everyone on here, all the pundits, all the experts, AND the race stewards disagree with you?

No, you must be right.

 

[niky]

Also, Jenson Button did exactly the same thing to Felipe Nasr - braked and turned in late, leaving Nasr to back off or run wide. It's a perfectly legitimate move to make.

Perfectly legitimate move to make when you're leading.

When you're half a car length behind...?

 

[Stotty]

Your dislike of Hamilton is blinding you, PM.

Rosberg deliberately tried to run Hamilton off the track... he could have defended the corner more conventionally, but he chose not to.

Only 1 driver at fault for that.

 

[Samus]

There are two conventional lines through that corner. The outside line calls for the driver to turn in early, and steal the inside line for the next straight. The inside line has the driver turn later so that they're on the outside for the straight. Hamilton appears to be trying to go from the outside to the inside, but Rosberg is in the way; the move only works if you're behind driver you're attacking. The only way it would work is to drive clean around the outside through the corner, which I have never seen happen, and Hamilton clearly isn't far enough ahead to make it happen.

So now what are you saying, drivers have to follow only 'conventional' lines through corners?

Hamilton is pretty much as far to the outside as he can go.
Hamilton is entitled to be on that piece of track.
Rosberg had acres of space to his inside he could've turned into.
Rosberg, for whatever the reason, went almost entirely straight on into Hamilton.

Which of those statements do you disagree with?

Also, Jenson Button did exactly the same thing to Felipe Nasr - braked and turned in late, leaving Nasr to back off or run wide. It's a perfectly legitimate move to make.

..and managed to do it without driving into Nasr. Going by this statement I guess the part you disagree with is Hamilton shouldn't have been on the outside of the corner and should have yielded. Am I right?

 

[J_Starscream]

I don't like Hamilton but that was 100% not his fault.

 

[Demon Drone]

There are two conventional lines through that corner. The outside line calls for the driver to turn in early, and steal the inside line for the next straight. The inside line has the driver turn later so that they're on the outside for the straight. Hamilton appears to be trying to go from the outside to the inside, but Rosberg is in the way; the move only works if you're behind driver you're attacking. The only way it would work is to drive clean around the outside through the corner, which I have never seen happen, and Hamilton clearly isn't far enough ahead to make it happen.

Also, Jenson Button did exactly the same thing to Felipe Nasr - braked and turned in late, leaving Nasr to back off or run wide. It's a perfectly legitimate move to make.

I've seen some pretty crazy mental gymnastics but this one takes the cake.

 

[Samus]

I haven't found the direct version yet but here is the slo-mo video from Rosberg's on board which illustrates much better than stills when he starts to try turning in. Far, far too late. In the rules of racing Hamilton had every right to stay on that part of the track and Rosberg just runs into him. Hamilton does NOT have to back out or drive off the track to avoid that 'obvious' defensive move. It's up to Rosberg to do it properly and not crash into him.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Hamilton is pretty much as far to the outside as he can go.
Hamilton is entitled to be on that piece of track.
Rosberg had acres of space to his inside he could've turned into.

I'm not denying any of that - I'm just pointing out that Hamilton put himself in a position where he had nowhere to go. He couldn't drive around Rosberg and still make the corner, and Rosberg running deep into it and blocking him was easily predictable. What on earth was he trying to achieve? Look at every other driver who executes the move Hamilton was trying to perform - they're never alongside the person they're trying to pass. They let the defending driver run deep, then cut across to the apex.

Going by this statement I guess the part you disagree with is Hamilton shouldn't have been on the outside of the corner and should have yielded.

Yes, Hamilton should have yielded. He hadn't completed the pass at that point because he wasn't going to make the corner; the only way to do it was to drive around the outside of Rosberg, which would have meant running wide.

 

[Dennisch]

I blame Hamilton for not having a puncture. Should have been a Max win.

Still. Not a bad race.

 

[Sikumatchbox]

Ok. I think Rosberg was wrong this time. But I think it's the same as is USGP 2015. And there was it Rosberg that didn't turn in to avoid contact.

But thats racing. Now they hit eachother.

 

[PzR Slim]

There are two conventional lines through that corner. The outside line calls for the driver to turn in early, and steal the inside line for the next straight. The inside line has the driver turn later so that they're on the outside for the straight. Hamilton appears to be trying to go from the outside to the inside, but Rosberg is in the way; the move only works if you're behind driver you're attacking. The only way it would work is to drive clean around the outside through the corner, which I have never seen happen, and Hamilton clearly isn't far enough ahead to make it happen.

Also, Jenson Button did exactly the same thing to Felipe Nasr - braked and turned in late, leaving Nasr to back off or run wide. It's a perfectly legitimate move to make.

Ha,ha, ha, ha, lol, ha, ha, ha, he, he!

 

[axletramp]

Nico: "It was my corner, I was on the inside." OK, if that's true, then why were you heading about 20 feet away from it?

I blame Hamilton for not having a puncture. Should have been a Max win.

Still. Not a bad race.

Bet you were booing.

 

[J_Starscream]

That move reminds me of Senna and Prost in 1990. Quite similar. But the message is, I think Rosberg has the same mentality "either I win or neither of us do".

That could just be me thinking that though...

 

[Dennisch]

Nico: "It was my corner, I was on the inside." OK, if that's true, then why were you heading about 20 feet away from it?

*variable apex.

 

[axletramp]

That move reminds me of Senna and Prost in 1990. Quite similar. But the message is, I think Rosberg has the same mentality "either I win or neither of us do".

...just without the titles to back it up...

 

[J_Starscream]

...just without the titles to back it up...

Obviously.

 

[Dennisch]

Bet you were booing.

Actually I was screaming for Max to catch Hamilton.

 

[Samus]

I'm not denying any of that - I'm just pointing out that Hamilton put himself in a position where he had nowhere to go. He couldn't drive around Rosberg and still make the corner, and Rosberg running deep into it and blocking him was easily predictable. What on earth was he trying to achieve? Look at every other driver who executes the move Hamilton was trying to perform - they're never alongside the person they're trying to pass. They let the defending driver run deep, then cut across to the apex.


Yes, Hamilton should have yielded. He hadn't completed the pass at that point because he wasn't going to make the corner; the only way to do it was to drive around the outside of Rosberg, which would have meant running wide.

Of course he had somewhere to go, the same line he was already on, around the outside of the corner. It is obviously a slow line, and it probably wouldn't have worked but at worst he'd be still alongside going into the next turn, he wasn't to know there was no opportunity to pass there because of yellows.

Hamilton didn't have to yield. If he wants to drive along a slow line around the outside that is his choice. It's still up to Rosberg to respect that line and not drive into him. Rosberg's fault, end of. The only way that could ever be Hamilton's fault is if there was a rule saying he wasn't allowed to drive where he did. There isn't.

 

[Sikumatchbox]

I think if Nico will be penalized. But I think that will ruin the championship.
Let's hope it will become an even heavier battle for the championship instead of one man. It doesn't matter who wins, but the grand prix schould be epic to the last points.

 

[Dennisch]

Rosberg didn't have locking wheels, there was no serious brake dust, he deliberately was looking for the contact.

But he only screwed himself.

Also.

24000 tickets sold for today.

 

[Bo]

What on earth was he trying to achieve?

I don't know, an overtake?

Look at every other driver who executes the move Hamilton was trying to perform - they're never alongside the person they're trying to pass. They let the defending driver run deep, then cut across to the apex.

It's kind of hard to cut across to the apex when you're squeezed to the edge of the track and then very deliberately driven off it. I'm starting to think you actually did expect Hamilton to levitate over Rosberg.

 

[GTFan24]

Nico says Lewis turned him.....

There's stupid and then there's THAT stupid.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

I'm starting to think you actually did expect Hamilton to levitate over Rosberg.

Well, he is #blessed after all.

 

[Famine]

Okay, let's assume this is Hamilton's fault for trying to pass round the outside where no-one has ever done that before and turning into Rosberg who was entitled to be there.

If Rosberg had just kept the wheel straight and kept braking more and more as Hamilton also slowed until they were both at the outside edge of the track*, when exactly would Hamilton have been allowed to turn in for it not to be his fault? Clearly not after the edge of the track because that would be exceeding track limits...

*Exactly like I've never done with Gran Turismo's AI. Honest.