2017 Deutsche Tourenwagen Meisters (DTM)Touring Cars

[MatskiMonk]

Strong points haul for BMW this weekend, pretty disasterous for Mercedes though... Di Resta is doing well to still be at the top of the standings!

As for the red bull ring.. I think it's beautiful, but it really does DTM cars no favours, at least the sausage curbs do something to disuade the rampant abuse of track limits!

 

[lxmmy]

Just saw the clip of Mortara's stupid attempt to go for a gap which wasn't there on Costa. What the 🤬 was he attempting to do?

 

[IforceV8]

Interesting line by da Costa, too bad the next turn was not a right hander.

 

[MatskiMonk]

Interesting line by da Costa, too bad the next turn was not a right hander.

He simply seemed to be taking a more defensive line - seems it wasn't defensive enough as Mortara still thought it was worth trying to stick his nose down the inside. Given that Da Costa had given Edo a little rub prior to getting the run on him on the exit of the previous corner, I think perhaps Edo thought he'd get the place back by pulling a similar move. Shame for them both, but it's a relatively high speed track, and any little nudge is likely to have more serious consequences.

 

[IforceV8]

Defensive line.

 

[MatskiMonk]

View attachment 549146

Defensive line.

Yes?



You think giving Mortara 3 times the space to get his nose in would have been more defensive?

 

[IforceV8]

Yes?



You think giving Mortara 3 times the space to get his nose in would have been more defensive?

How about actually driving somewhere near the racing line and trying to actually race to the next turn instead of driving in your mirrors and blocking all the way across the track. I have no sympathy for guys that blatantly block and am in favor of them ending up in a gravel trap or off the track whenever it can be done to them.

The mistake Mortara made was not reading the guy better and lifting early and trying to get back to the right because da Costa would have gone off the track at the next turn regardless because his entry was so shallow.

 

[MatskiMonk]

How about actually driving somewhere near the racing line and trying to actually race to the next turn instead of driving in your mirrors and blocking all the way across the track. I have no sympathy for guys that blatantly block and am in favor of them ending up in a gravel trap or off the track whenever it can be done to them.

Oh okay, so now you agree that he was on a more defensive line, which btw is entirely his right to do. If he'd have moved over to the racing line Mortara would have braked later, got his nose in and ran Da Costa wide on exit.

The mistake Mortara made was not reading the guy better and lifting early and trying to get back to the right because da Costa would have gone off the track at the next turn regardless because his entry was so shallow.

Given that Da Costa both braked before Mortara, and had a wider line, the implication of what you're saying is that Mortara certainly wasn't going to make the bend either (since he was travelling faster and on a tighter line) and was therefore always going to run into Da Costa, thereby causing an avoidable accident - and yet you think it's Da Costa that deserves to be in the gravel?

 

[lxmmy]

How about actually driving somewhere near the racing line and trying to actually race to the next turn instead of driving in your mirrors and blocking all the way across the track. I have no sympathy for guys that blatantly block and am in favor of them ending up in a gravel trap or off the track whenever it can be done to them.

The mistake Mortara made was not reading the guy better and lifting early and trying to get back to the right because da Costa would have gone off the track at the next turn regardless because his entry was so shallow.

Da Costa brakes earlier and around that corner if you take the wide line then you are running the risk of Mortara literally pushing you off as he gain priority to the racing line to that corner and we would see the end of Da Costa's race anyway. The person who prides himself as an expert around Macau should well certainly know that Da Costa was going to protect the inside line which he would as he is in front and has priority too rather than take Da Costa plus himself out.

 

[SagarisGTB]

How about actually driving somewhere near the racing line and trying to actually race to the next turn instead of driving in your mirrors and blocking all the way across the track. I have no sympathy for guys that blatantly block and am in favor of them ending up in a gravel trap or off the track whenever it can be done to them.

What are you talking about? Defending your position by planting your car on the inside line is a legitimate tactic in motor racing. Do you also have no sympathy for goalkeepers in ball or puck sports that blatantly block goal scoring opportunites, because that's basically the equivalent.

 

[IforceV8]

Oh okay, so now you agree that he was on a more defensive line, which btw is entirely his right to do. If he'd have moved over to the racing line Mortara would have braked later, got his nose in and ran Da Costa wide on exit

I must have missed the part were I said he wasnt on a defensive line. I laughed at the terrible race craft of the guy who took to social media to flex his muscles instead of dealing with it like a man.

Given that Da Costa both braked before Mortara, and had a wider line, the implication of what you're saying is that Mortara certainly wasn't going to make the bend either (since he was travelling faster and on a tighter line) and was therefore always going to run into Da Costa, thereby causing an avoidable accident - and yet you think it's Da Costa that deserves to be in the gravel?

Yep. You try and force another car off the track blocking and you get the chrome horn.

Da Costa brakes earlier and around that corner if you take the wide line then you are running the risk of Mortara literally pushing you off as he gain priority to the racing line to that corner and we would see the end of Da Costa's race anyway. The person who prides himself as an expert around Macau should well certainly know that Da Costa was going to protect the inside line which he would as he is in front and has priority too rather than take Da Costa plus himself out.

OK.

 

[MatskiMonk]

I must have missed the part were I said he wasnt on a defensive line. I laughed at the terrible race craft of the guy who took to social media to flex his muscles instead of dealing with it like a man.

Seems clear what your sentiment was...

Defensive line.

... but whatever,

Yep. You try and force another car off the track blocking and you get the chrome horn.

He left a cars width, and got hit because Mortara didn't brake in time.... but oh wait.. in your eyes Da Costa, who slowed earlier and was on a wider line, wasn't going to make the turn anyway.. I guess you're not going to address that point. Shame, I'd have loved to have known how Mortara, who admits he was struggling with his car, was going to brake later and turn harder than Da Costa, a guy that was "off the track at the next turn regardless" according to you.

I guess it doesn't matter though, if your opinion is that in Motorsport, the guy infront must follow the racing line regardless, and deserves to end up in the gravel if he doesn't... then we're unlikely to see eye to eye.

 

[lxmmy]

Driver, Team & Manufacturer's standings has been added to the OP.

 

[MatskiMonk]

http://www.sportschau.de/dtm/videostream-livestream---die-dtm-am-lausitzring-102.html

 

[Hardyx]

So happy for my fellow countryman Miquel Molina

 

[MatskiMonk]

🤬 Molina spun Farfus.

Drive Through for Miguel.

 

[MatskiMonk]

Audi Sport gets a warning for this incident..

 

[IforceV8]

Why was that tire guy out in the red area with his back turned to the track?

 

[lxmmy]

A really weak weekend for BMW. But Wittmann steps up into second place in the standings just 3 points from top spot.

 

[MatskiMonk]

A really weak weekend for BMW. But Wittmann steps up into second place in the standings just 3 points from top spot.

After yesterdays race I think Wittmann was even leading the standings.

I don't think it's a surprise that the BMW's struggled to perform today, they were the heaviest cars today, and I don't think they respond too well to that.

 

[lxmmy]

After yesterdays race I think Wittmann was even leading the standings.

He was indeed even by 3 points over Mortara who was second.

 

[MatskiMonk]

Ekstrom doing a great job for BMW at Norisring R1

 

[lxmmy]

This will be the last season for Tomczyk in DTM. But he will be remained part of the BMW family as he focuses his attention to international competition.

 

[05XR8]

Will this make the racing better, worse, or leave things just as they are?
http://www.touringcartimes.com/2017/03/30/the-dtm-changes-race-duration-for-the-2017-season/

 

[Carbonox]

So still a single pitstop per race?

Should be 2. That always shuffled the pack pretty nicely throughout the mid-sections.

 

[05XR8]

2017 DTM thread, anyone? Anyone?

 

[psychoazubi]

The interest in DTM seems not that big, so maybe just rename this thread?

Anyway, there are some more rule changes for the 2017 season, which begins this weekend in Hockenheim:

- Points for the first 3 positions in qualifying (3-2-1)
- no more radio communication in the race between driver and box, except for safety informations during SC and for yellow flags
- DRS use limited to 12 laps per race (if the car in front is < 1 second ahead at start/finish, the driver is allowed to use DRS 3 times in the following lap)
- Restarts after SC are now in new formation, two cars side by side

 

[lxmmy]

Thread has now been renamed.

 

[GTracer38]

The interest in DTM seems not that big, so maybe just rename this thread?

Anyway, there are some more rule changes for the 2017 season, which begins this weekend in Hockenheim:

- Points for the first 3 positions in qualifying (3-2-1)
- no more radio communication in the race between driver and box, except for safety informations during SC and for yellow flags
- DRS use limited to 12 laps per race (if the car in front is < 1 second ahead at start/finish, the driver is allowed to use DRS 3 times in the following lap)
- Restarts after SC are now in new formation, two cars side by side

Would it not have been better to just have 12 uses of DRS regardless of the gaps.
Fine to keep the pre-determined DRS zones, for safety reasons, but if it's being restricted (the total) then why not allow it anytime?

Radio Comms thing will be interesting. Shouldn't affect the drivers too much, ur hopefully it doesn't lead to penalties and grey areas.

 

[psychoazubi]

Would it not have been better to just have 12 uses of DRS regardless of the gaps.
Fine to keep the pre-determined DRS zones, for safety reasons, but if it's being restricted (the total) then why not allow it anytime?

Radio Comms thing will be interesting. Shouldn't affect the drivers too much, ur hopefully it doesn't lead to penalties and grey areas.

The DTM has no DRS zones. If you are less than a second behind the driver in front at start/finish, you can use it 3 times on the following lap (so 36 times a race), wherever you want to. It was already restricted last year, they have just lowered the amount of laps when it is allowed. To keep the 1 second gap is to allow for overtaking like in F1, which makes sense even though the cars have more power and a little bit less aero than last year, but they kind of had the same problems following other cars as the F1 does. The cars are still to aero-sensitive I think.