2017 F1 Constructor technical info/developmentFormula 1
- Thread starter LMSCorvetteGT2
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- HamiltonMP427
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It could just be a manufacturing fault. Even if McLaren aren't using the size zero concept anymore, space is at a premium. It wouldn't take much to cause the problem, especially given the rarity of it happening on an installation lap.
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- HamiltonMP427
Though to happen on an install lap usually doesn't bode well, it could be coincidence, or it could be more of the same we've come to expect from Honda for the past 2 years. I really want Honda to finally be up to speed, but I'm not liking the first 24 hours of their car so far.
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- tribolik
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competition does everything to slow down the RB13. Or did Max hit a fence. No that was his father
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That's why I wonder if it's a manufacturing fault. It just seems like such an odd thing to happen.
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![[Nor]MclarenF1](/forum/data/avatars/m/169/169289.jpg?1413287138){kind=avatar}
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- hoydeskrekk
Considering it was an oil leak - not oil surge or starvation - it could be a faulty oil line connector.
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- pezzarinho17
I read somewhere this morning that it sounds to be oil pickup from the tank itself. It was a little damning really, since it happened on a slow installation lap. Had it been a flying lap, you could argue that there must be slight disconnect between the dyno testing being conducted by Honda, and the actual forces being exerted at full tilt. On a slow lap however, the problem is pure basics...
- 29,929
- Bratvegas
- GTP_Liquid
The sheer complexity of aerodynamics today means that this will almost certainly never happen. Understanding of wings in 1977 and 2017 are lightyears apart.
You only have to look at a front wing today and see all the winglets, ridges, fins, flaps, ailerons, planes and nubbins and compare that to an M23 with its bare curve.
It was @homeforsummer who said elsewhere that F1 cars rely on aero so much that if you compare to Formula E those cars skit and slide and have longer braking distances not too dissimilar to F1 racers of old and the F1 everybody wants back whereas today's F1 cars are so aero sensitive that if you even breathe on the front wing then you're skating off at the next braking zone.
Pete05
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So limit the wings to single or dual plane only.
If they had to run Monza levels of downforce or, better still, Indycar superspeedway style wings, the balance would be swayed so far in favour of the mechanical grip, aero would be no more than 50% of the total grip available.
Don't forget diffusers & floors alone have virtually travelled from day 1 to the present day in comparison to the 1974 M23.
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- TenEightyOne
- TenEightyOne
I agree. There's nowway they haven't used the oil pickup system on the dyno... and because the air pressures around an F1 engine are known to alter dramatically (at least in terms of how much fluid that air pressure can compel through a narrow bore pipe) around a circuit I can't imagine that any F1 engine hasn't used a partly-pre-pressurised oil system for 20 years. That alone should take care of the demands of an outlap and should be easily designable for the tolerances of a fast-ish lap. After that the problems should only really occur when you get lower oil levels at high-G, it's genuinely difficult to imagine an oil "solution" that wouldn't work for at least 10 miles.
Has to be a manufacturing fault or a terrible procedural oversight.
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- GTP_SEMS
So according to the drivers, overtaking will be more difficult. To the surprise of no one, it will be a more attractive parade though.
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- MW3Fan34
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Exactly. Pile on the downforce and you make it harder for cars to follow one another. Although I have heard that the teams are considering common componentry in the future - a system where certain parts are built to spec and cannot be developed - as a means of cutting costs and closing the gaps between teams.
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- HamiltonMP427
Sounds as convoluted and issue ridden as the engine creation and freeze that then turned into a semi-freeze and ultimately a non-freeze and basically an admittance of being a mistake. So say a team does build to a certain spec but are better than everyone else and then are unmatched due to development freeze. The idea of anything spec in this series is a horrible solution, the problem is simple, the aero options used right now are not helping the show. However, I don't think the show is more important than the actual race.
Also there are plenty of spec series that have a dominant team or couple of teams, and the rest are just their to fill up the numbers.
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The teams won't sacrifice aero. Not if they can avoid it. They'll talk about "improving the show" (which I noticed has dropped out of the lexicon), but in the end, they would rather preserve the advantage they have than risk losing it even if it meant the possibility of moving up the grid.
The current formula really favours strong qualifying cars where you put it on pole, win the drag race into the first corner and you're untouchable. It would be impossible to do, but I wonder what it would be like if the grid worked more like a horse racing barrier - rather than having ten rows of two cars, you'd have one row of twenty, with drivers picking their starting berth based on qualifying times.
I think "improving the show" was the mistake the teams made in the first place. They took it to mean that the fans wanted more overtaking, and while more overtaking is nice, I think they fundamentally misunderstood what the fans wanted: not more overtaking, but the potential for more overtaking. They never seemed to understand that you can have a race with zero overtakes and it could still be the most exciting race ever because watching a driver defend a position can be just as exciting as watching a driver attack.
Sometimes you do get a good fight developing outside the points, though.
Tired Tyres
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- Tired_Tyres
- Tired Tyres
Ground Effect was banned for safety reasons. It won't come back.
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Ultimately it's not fully up to them, if the FIA wants they can switch the rules little by little to improve the show and the teams will go with it, it is massive changes like engine rules or complete overhaul of the cars that they don't decide alone. I agree, the new formula will be who can put together the best lap time on Saturday, and who can be in the lead at the end of lap one.
However, the teams didn't all want this, Mercedes wanted something else, and in reality many say this was Red Bulls workings more than anyone else. However, Mercedes were fine with it because they knew they had the best engine and a very good aero team, thus even if RBR were that little bit better they'd never be better engine wise. So I agree the show tagline teams use is forced and when the FIA got involved to "fix it", they didn't even pay attention to the research done that showed this wasn't the route to go. Other than tires being a good start.
As for chasing, defending, calculating, strategy, I agree that is all interesting things, but most people aren't that type of thinker and need to see back and forth passing. Or the potential. Which is why sports like NASCAR exist (for how long is anyone's guess)
But that only holds interest for a short time. People most of the time have a driver, and some times a team, that they want to see with a fair chance at winning. If that isn't possible because of a monopoly on the sport, no one but that dominant team wins. In F1 and to an extent Prototypes understand it is, they are at risk of not being the best due to the nature of the game, it's been that way for decades. So they manipulate the rules or find ways to stretch rules and dominate or be rich, or some combination. Fans have also come to understand this. You can't have a formula where teams are unique and have close racing, if you want autonomy and close racing then you're better off making your own series.
Exactly, it was said it was an option and so were that of active suspension. Active Suspension wont come back due to cost. No small teams wants to have to keep up with the likes of RBR and Mercedes on spending in said area, what a manufacture spends in engines. Though I do feel ground effects or the limited way they planned to do it would have been much safer than full blown stuff we saw in the late 70s and early 80s.
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- J_Chmielinski
Yes, lets have a situation where mid-corner contact/departure leads to a sudden loss of a huge percentage of ground attraction - that never ended badly before
So let's stick to processional racing then. If you want fast cars to race closely, you need aero that's not dependant on the "quality" of air going around it. I'm not aware of aything other than ground effect that has such properties.
Tired Tyres
Premium
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- Tired_Tyres
- Tired Tyres
It's not losing the ground effect that is the real problem. It's getting it back, in full, when you are not pointing in the right direction....Yes, lets have a situation where mid-corner contact/departure leads to a sudden loss of a huge percentage of ground attraction - that never ended badly before
- 29,929
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- GTP_Liquid
I'd like to know what percentage of fans have accepted DRS and what percentage of fans still consider it the cheat button.
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competition does everything to slow down the RB13. Or did Max hit a fence. No that was his father
If you can think of a better way to dry your socks, I'd like to see it.
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- catamount39
What about tying them to the wings of an F-16?
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I don't think anyone doubts that less aero, etc. can lead to far more interesting racing (look at stuff like V8 supercars and various other forms of lower-tier sportscar racing...easily the most "exciting"). This is Formula 1 though, a techno-showcase parade. I enjoy watching Formula 1 because I know all the drivers and most of the teams and it's fun to just see what hi-jinx they get into, but I've never sat down to watch a Formula 1 with the expectation of close wheel-to-wheel racing or genuinely exciting driving.
This is a series almost entirely dominated by engineering, pit-strategy and tire strategy. When you need gimmicks/mechanisms to aid in passing, and you have drivers driving to a fuel number or specific lap time to make it to the end, etc...the real motorsport is gone. However I don't know that you can accomplish fun/exciting/competitive racing WITH the level of tech/aero/crap you have on Formula 1 cars. It works with stuff like WEC because of the endurance nature of the sport (an entirely new animal).
You simply can't have Formula 1 cars slower than other competitive series, etc. I'd like to see some more competitive stuff such as re-fueling and teams getting to declare their own tire choices prior to a race (they still bring two, but the team gets to choose which ones it wants - gambling a bit)...but really I can't think of a solution that would suddenly promote interesting/exciting/close racing.
This is a series almost entirely dominated by engineering, pit-strategy and tire strategy. When you need gimmicks/mechanisms to aid in passing, and you have drivers driving to a fuel number or specific lap time to make it to the end, etc...the real motorsport is gone. However I don't know that you can accomplish fun/exciting/competitive racing WITH the level of tech/aero/crap you have on Formula 1 cars. It works with stuff like WEC because of the endurance nature of the sport (an entirely new animal).
You simply can't have Formula 1 cars slower than other competitive series, etc. I'd like to see some more competitive stuff such as re-fueling and teams getting to declare their own tire choices prior to a race (they still bring two, but the team gets to choose which ones it wants - gambling a bit)...but really I can't think of a solution that would suddenly promote interesting/exciting/close racing.
