2017 F1 Constructor technical info/developmentFormula 1

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

But we will have the failo next year.

Also, these T-wings and shark fins are very mid to late 90s experimental:

And let's not forget the tower wings:

I thought the 95 McLaren myself when I first saw the t-wing. Shark fins always remind me of the Indy cars that first used them in the 90s.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Christian Horner hopes that the teams can agree to get rid of the shark fin by the first race in Australia, Autosport. Here's hoping.

In other news Gilles Simon will end his consultancy contract with Honda. He's been tending to his roses for some time now as it is and it seems that the relationship is too strained to continue. BBC.

 

[ukfan758]

Why are they wanting to ditch the shark fins and T wings? Doesn't removing them make the cars even faster, a potential concern for the FIA?

 

[Pezzarinho17]

I think it is purely aesthetic reasons why they want to remove them. I understand that for the T-Wings, but the shark fins have divided opinion - and some (me included) are divided about them in general. I think the ones that curve back on themselves are stunning, but the square ones on the Force India and Red Bull for example are awful.

Removing them wouldn't slow the cars down too much, they are about conditioning the air ahead of the rear wing and directing it onto the main plane in line with the car. It makes the car suspect to crosswinds though. I think the reason for any delay in pulling the trigger is that they need a genuine reason for doing so. Teams have completed most of testing with them, so suddenly removing them without reason wouldn't be seen as fair. It's likely they would be killed off by the ruling over flexible aero pieces, though I'm not sure whether the shark fins flex as badly without the T-Wings attached?...

 

[JC_Dude]

I think all shark fins can look great if they're painted properly. Slapping a huge block of silver on the back of the Force India makes it look horrible, while the subtle accents on the Ferrari or the Renault improve the overall look.

 

[Jimlaad43]

Will we see a pink Force India in Melbourne?
http://wtf1.co.uk/force-indias-2017-f1-car-turning-pink/

 

[JC_Dude]

There's even an image of it going around. I have no idea where it's from though, looks like a video game (F1 2017 beta?)

 

[psychoazubi]

@JC_Dude it's just a render, but it's not too bad. I always thought that the FI cars have a bad livery, this one is ok. Also on the plus side, a new big sponsor so they can keep up the work during the season.

 

[IforceV8]

Did anybody laugh out loud when they read Horner was "concerned" about the optics and the sport?

 

[TheElbows]

Hell, whatever. That pink stuff is nicer than their normal livery.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

@catamount39 @mwoodski And who ever else talked about it in the testing thread, here is what the FIA (just say I told you so) about increasing engine size or number of cylinders.

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2017/03/08/f1-will-not-bring-back-v10-or-v12-engines-todt/

Also @Dennisch talked about it too

 

[Dennisch]

It only seems logical that they don't go back to larger V's.

I don't mind the size of the engines, my only complaint about the current generation is the noise they lack.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

It only seems logical that they don't go back to larger V's.

I don't mind the size of the engines, my only complaint about the current generation is the noise they lack.

I mean as I said prior, I understand where you come from on that, I don't fully agree, because listening to the Indy car testing and the F1 testing they both sound pretty much the same. Yet many people (not you) that complain about noise point to Indy, as a focal point for where F1 should look to improve sound wise. To me both sound good as it is, but as @mustafur pointed out you strap a large turbo and then have said energy be harvested into mgu-k and mgu-h and you'll have multiple things take away sound to create more power.

So the trade off is this, either have the most efficient powerful race cars ever in the series, or have noise and somewhat powerful cars.

Also I understand you better cause you don't rant and rave and use the curse filter to complain about the cars...I thank you.

 

[catamount39]

I mean as I said prior, I understand where you come from on that, I don't fully agree, because listening to the Indy car testing and the F1 testing they both sound pretty much the same. Yet many people (not you) that complain about noise point to Indy, as a focal point for where F1 should look to improve sound wise. To me both sound good as it is, but as @mustafur pointed out you strap a large turbo and then have said energy be harvested into mgu-k and mgu-h and you'll have multiple things take away sound to create more power.

So the trade off is this, either have the most efficient powerful race cars ever in the series, or have noise and somewhat powerful cars.

Also I understand you better cause you don't rant and rave and use the curse filter to complain about the cars...I thank you.

Indycar's have a sweeter, louder note. They are louder, and they sound meaner. Why? They're bigger. They're 2.3L V6T's, and have more grunt to them. V6T's are not bad engines, however the way they're executed in F1 is about as exciting as me revving my Mazda6.

Increase displacement, drop hybrid systems, and rev the nuts out of them, and there's a winning combination...but the V8's were the best.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Indycar's have a sweeter, louder note. They are louder, and they sound meaner. Why?

Because they're pissing waste energy into the sky?

 

[catamount39]

Because they're pissing waste energy into the sky?

So? They make 700hp, the cars are capable of 235mph, have extremely respectable times that out pace GP2 even though they weigh more and have no power steering.

Also, you cut off my explanation.

 

[JC_Dude]

So? They make 700hp, the cars are capable of 235mph, have extremely respectable times that out pace GP2 even though they weigh more and have no power steering.

Also, you cut off my explanation.

What's their thermal efficiency?

 

[catamount39]

What's their thermal efficiency?

I really don't care frankly. That's not the sort thing I watch motorsports for.

The cars need to excite, and F1 only gets by because the ludicrous aero and designs and being one of the last "open regulation" class' of cars. The cars are otherwise boring, their engines do nothing for me.

I relate it to modern railway locomotives, they are not interesting at all compared to their predecessors. Are they better, yes (aside from some things which are actually worse such as over babying electronics that hinder performance...I.E. tractive effort loss when beginning to run hot and the ECU cutting voltage to the traction motors, something older units didn't have...and many modern post 30's steamers actually have a higher efficiency at speed but I digress). Do I realize that it's the peak of efficiency and tech? Yes. Are they exciting? No, because they're neutered and do not display any sense of raw power unless you know the numbers at play.

Same with race cars and cars in general. Unless it excites, it is lack luster at best. At the end of the day, this sport is about a spectacle. F1, lost the spectacle when the last car crossed the finish line in Abu Dhabi in 2013.

 

[mwoodski]

I really don't care frankly. That's not the sort thing I watch motorsports for.

The cars need to excite, and F1 only gets by because the ludicrous aero and designs and being one of the last "open regulation" class' of cars. The cars are otherwise boring, their engines do nothing for me.

I relate it to modern railway locomotives, they are not interesting at all compared to their predecessors. Are they better, yes (aside from some things which are actually worse such as over babying electronics that hinder performance...I.E. tractive effort loss when beginning to run hot and the ECU cutting voltage to the traction motors, something older units didn't have). Do I realize that it's the peak of efficiency and tech? Yes. Are they exciting? No, because they're neutered and do not display any sense of raw power unless you know the numbers at play.

Same with race cars and cars in general. Unless it excites, it is lack luster at best. At the end of the day, this sport is about a spectacle. F1, lost the spectacle when the last car crossed the finish line in Abu Dhabi in 2013.

All of this.

 

[Michelin Man]

IMO F1 has always been about showcasing the ever changing nature of technology by coming up with new ideas, and adapting said technology to create some of the racecars on the planet.

Plus, as @Dennisch and @LMSCorvetteGT2 touched upon these units are designed for ultimate efficiency, by converting otherwise wasted energy into extra power. So at the end of the day it makes absolutely no sense in switching to older designs regardless of the whole sound debate.

Sure they're no V10's (which I loved and to a certain extent would love to see back, but that's not the point) and I agree in parts with whole idea of F1 being a spectacle, but's very easy to put the rose tinted specs on and reminisce about the amazing engines of days gone by, but F1 can still be that spectacle with it's current regs to be honest.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Indycar's have a sweeter, louder note. They are louder, and they sound meaner. Why? They're bigger. They're 2.3L V6T's, and have more grunt to them. V6T's are not bad engines, however the way they're executed in F1 is about as exciting as me revving my Mazda6.

Increase displacement, drop hybrid systems, and rev the nuts out of them, and there's a winning combination...but the V8's were the best.

Increase displacement? F1 has always had a smaller displacement, I mean gosh I guess the 5.5L is a far better race engine that Corvette used, opposed to the 2.4L V8 F1 last used in 2013. By your inane logic that is. Also go ahead post up both testing videos from this year, they sound no different, how you make a distinct ruling of a deeper louder note from a lower revving engine, is beyond me.

So? They make 700hp, the cars are capable of 235mph, have extremely respectable times that out pace GP2 even though they weigh more and have no power steering.

Also, you cut off my explanation.

Yes and the F1 cars are at 1000 hp, more efficient than any other engine on the planet supposedly racing wise. Also I'd hope an Indy car could outpace a gp2, seeing as it's the top tier American open wheel sport.

I really don't care frankly. That's not the sort thing I watch motorsports for.

That's fine, but I frankly don't watch racing for noises, stupid macho "no replacement for displacement" type ideals myself.

The cars need to excite, and F1 only gets by because the ludicrous aero and designs and being one of the last "open regulation" class' of cars. The cars are otherwise boring, their engines do nothing for me.

I relate it to modern railway locomotives, they are not interesting at all compared to their predecessors. Are they better, yes (aside from some things which are actually worse such as over babying electronics that hinder performance...I.E. tractive effort loss when beginning to run hot and the ECU cutting voltage to the traction motors, something older units didn't have...and many modern post 30's steamers actually have a higher efficiency at speed but I digress). Do I realize that it's the peak of efficiency and tech? Yes. Are they exciting? No, because they're neutered and do not display any sense of raw power unless you know the numbers at play.

Same with race cars and cars in general. Unless it excites, it is lack luster at best. At the end of the day, this sport is about a spectacle. F1, lost the spectacle when the last car crossed the finish line in Abu Dhabi in 2013.

So they're boring cause of engines, but not boring because of everything else, such as being the fastest cars. For me I watch racing particularly F1, for the fact it's fast and it's racing. As for the rest of your post, I'm confused. So you say there are negatives to the modern that the older didn't have, but in reality the net return is a positive. Only say a decade ago you couldn't get all cars to finish a race. Yet now that's almost possible each GP and happens frequently even with Honda of current. I enjoy being able to see action on the track, and not several cars dnf out of a race.

F1 didn't lose any spectacle in 2013, it entered a new era and either people were adult enough to go with change as had happened dozens of times before, or be myopic.

 

[mwoodski]

Increase displacement? F1 has always had a smaller displacement, I mean gosh I guess the 5.5L is a far better race engine that Corvette used, opposed to the 2.4L V8 F1 last used in 2013. By your inane logic that is. Also go ahead post up both testing videos from this year, they sound no different, how you make a distinct ruling of a deeper louder note from a lower revving engine, is beyond me.

They sound very different.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

They sound very different.

Indy cars sound slightly louder but to me they don't sound too different especially from the honda F1

 

[TenEightyOne]

Indy cars sound slightly louder but to me they don't sound too different especially from the honda F1

I agree... and perhaps the point about sound is made when you consider that F1 teams each think their rivals are pushing up to 1,000 horsepower while IndyCar reckons their (heavier) cars are making between 550 and 700 dependent on turbo regs per-circuit.

Plus those Indy cars look a litte, erm, girthy

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I agree... and perhaps the point about sound is made when you consider that F1 teams each think their rivals are pushing up to 1,000 horsepower while IndyCar reckons their (heavier) cars are making between 550 and 700 dependent on turbo regs per-circuit.

Plus those Indy cars look a litte, erm, girthy

Yeah they really don't give the idea of sexy, as F1 is supposed to do. I enjoy Indy but I still have a hard time seeing an awesome race car in it. I think the animated movie Turbo did it more favors than the actual racing.

 

[AudiMan2011]

F1 cars nowadays sound too synthetic since the start of the turbo hybrid era, whereas the Indycars sound a lot sweeter. IMO the whole idea that going back to V10s or V12s "wouldn't be accepted by society" is complete rubbish. Who gives a 🤬 what so-called "society" thinks? The spectacle of F1 needs improving for the fans who watch the races. Noise is part of the spectacle and Indycars right now are delivering better spectacle than F1 on the noise front as well as the racing.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

F1 cars nowadays sound too synthetic since the start of the turbo hybrid era, whereas the Indycars sound a lot sweeter. IMO the whole idea that going back to V10s or V12s "wouldn't be accepted by society" is complete rubbish. Who gives a 🤬 what so-called "society" thinks? The spectacle of F1 needs improving for the fans who watch the races. Noise is part of the spectacle and Indycars right now are delivering better spectacle than F1 on the noise front as well as the racing.

It's not "complete rubbish" because as was stated by the article and before that me and PM was that manufactures had already set sights on this reg change (2014) and how they made the ultimatum to the FIA that they would leave if the engines stayed V8.

So hey you don't care, that's fine, you can keep the name F1, but the F will stand for Ferrari. Cause everyone else will leave manufacture wise but them. Then you'll have a single team paying tons of money to beat teams that are independents who will either rely on Ferrari to power them, or a group like Cosworth.

As for the noise front, once again it's not a massive factor, to some sure, but wouldn't say most (not saying you have). Two the racing is arguable between the two series. There have been memorable races last season in F1 that were quite enjoyable and probably better than other series that weekend. It's hard to beat constant passing on Ovals, or the tire to tire squeezing of narrow street circuits. It's easy but hardly better.

I'd say the street circuits in Indy are good, but Oval racing is somewhat boring, especially when it's luck of the draw in the final ten to five laps.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Who gives a 🤬 what so-called "society" thinks?

The people who want to take society's money in exchange for cars? Race Sunday, sell Monday.

 

[Northstar]

Who gives a 🤬 what so-called "society" thinks?

The government for one and that's kind of a biggie as they set noise restrictions that have a tendency to interfere with racing events.

Noise is part of the spectacle and Indycars right now are delivering better spectacle than F1 on the noise front as well as the racing.

If you need to rely on the noise to make a series interesting it's probably not a series worth watching in the first place.

 

[NFSCARBON1]

They sound very different.

The Indycars sound raspier and like they are working harder. The F1's sound like they're on half throttle and short shifting.
The actual sound isn't much different. It's basically like comparing GT6 engine sound to pretty much every other car game/sim.
It's right but there's something missing.