- 11,127
- Bromley
- V16T91
- E0nLeader
Jacques Villeneuve has given his predictably arsey opinion on all this. Yes, emotion is good. No, it isn't when it's done like this.
2017 Formula 1 Azerbaijan Grand PrixFormula 1
- Thread starter Jimlaad43
- 952 comments
- 53,217 views
- 22,551
- Arizona
- HamiltonMP427
This didn't surprise me, but what did somewhat was another WDC defending Vettel, Jackie Stewart
http://www.cityam.com/267367/formula-one-great-sir-jackie-stewart-defends-sebastian
Basically saying that what Vettel did was bad, but Hamilton started it so it's essentially his fault it happened. Which makes me lose even more respect for Stewart, as a guy who drove, owned a team, has been an officiator, and still follows the sport, is that Hamilton is almost equally to blame. He's said frequently bad things about Hamilton before, but this is quite inane from a person of his level and experience.
- 3,053
- England
- kilesa4568
People should just learn to call a spade a spade. The telemetry didn't lie and it was an obvious case of red mist for Vettel that he's justifiably punished for.
Case closed as far as I'm concerned but then pinions are like arseholes, everyone has one but they think each others stink.
Case closed as far as I'm concerned but then pinions are like arseholes, everyone has one but they think each others stink.
- 22,551
- Arizona
- HamiltonMP427
I like the side by side, because for those who loved simply using their eyes to judge based on the onboards, can now see a side by side comparison (that they asked for) between the restarts. And comparing that to the ruling the FIA had in regards to Lewis's speed, it in fact looks like Vettel was far too opportunistic with his driving and cost himself, and should only be angry with himself.
- 2,428
- England
- Lewis_Hamilton_
Yes but, but, but Lewis is a dirty loser driver who never gets penalized and always blames others when his dirty tactics don't work. He definitely brake checked Vettel, no need for factual telemetry data, we can see he did it twice now with our own unbiased eyes! Vettel was just lucky he wasn't so close the first time and managed to avoid that reckless spoiled brat in the Merc.
- 974
- GOTHEBURG
Probably noted but lost in all the noise. Heck, Alonso finally got points and nary a peep.
Personally, I'm intrigued at the Perez/Ocon dynamic. I watched the replays again and it's fair to say that if Perez was in the wrong at Canada, Ocon was at the wrong at Baku. Clearly, Ocon was bullying Perez by pushing him off the corner and giving him no room off the exit. That said, I have little sympathy for Force India because they should've nipped this at the bud after Canada.
Oh, and a final important question to ask. Did Kimi ever get that steering wheel he asked for?
Well time to note because Vettel vs Hamilton is a debate but Wehrlain being 10th is a fact. So remove Romain.
Would be nice to get corrected for future and because i like Sauber
Also, in the debate...Hamilton should get penalty too and Bottas, Mercedes always feel like they can slip away. I felt like ok that was not a surprise ruling, Hamilton needed to pit because of faulty headrest and for that lets give Vettel same handicap and make him take a 10sec drivetrough.
- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
- 20,681
- TenEightyOne
- TenEightyOne
What does that mean? Wehrlein is 10th on the race standings.
For almost all of the race* he was Lewis Hamilton.
*All the race, I've just checked
- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
Section 3 Rule 31-1 of the FIA Handbook:
The penalty for being Lewis Hamilton is one of the following: ....
- 20,681
- TenEightyOne
- TenEightyOne
- 3,053
- England
- kilesa4568
I wonder if Vettel will go on to pip Hamilton to the world championship and then immediately retire saying "I never want to go through that again"...
- 1,747
Yeah, but he can't just be like "Oh I was angry and drove into Lewis , I'm sorry!"
Because that would probably mean harsher penalties, like a race ban or worse.
Even if it was at low speeds, it was absolutely idiotic, because it could have caused something much more serious, which it luckily didn't, but it could have.
In the situation he has maneuvered himself (literally) it's the best thing to play dumb now.
BTW, great race, they should only drive on city courses from now on (been saying this since years) race tracks ironically aren't really suited for these cars, too easy.
- 143
- Arkansas
You're the first person that I've seen say that.
- 6,290
- Washington State
- OutlawQuadrant
It is worth noting that the catalyst for all the craziness at Baku stemmed from Kvyat's stranded car and the decision to deploy the actual safety car instead of the VSC. Without that happening, would we still be saying Baku provided great racing? I'm at least going to give the track a chance but I fear we got lucky this year with the right circumstances.
As for more city courses, the hard part is finding a path that works. It needs enough width and straights which I suspect is harder to find in Europe than, say, the US.
- 3,053
- England
- kilesa4568
I wish they'd drop the VSC's and go back to only using safety cars. The sport needs the excitement of the restart rather than the set pace nonsense.
- 1,747
Yeah, you're right there were certain circumstances that led to a race like that, but it was crazy, it was "on" from the second it started to the end!
And yet I'm still saying this for a long time now, people say tracks like Monaco are boring, yet I've seen some of the most exciting races on that track...
Remember when Schumacher "parked" his Ferrari in the last corner so no one could pass him for example? Lol.
Another track like that is Long Beach...
Well, I know that's not in the cards, but I really think most race tracks they race on nowadays are incredibly boring which leads to boring races.
City courses, walls everywhere, sharp turns, that's where these drivers and cars can shine imo.
zzz_pt
Premium
- 8,188
- Porto living in Hamburg
- zzz_pt
The problem is not the type of track but the great differences between the cars/engines on the grid (not saying that mercedes and ferrari should be slower, just stating a fact). Other championships and race series take place on those same circuits (non city courses) and they're great to watch.
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
I remain unconvinced that Vettel did it deliberately. If he did do it deliberately, then Hamilton needs to be held accountable for his actions because he caused an avoidable collision:
1) Hamilton repeatedly criticised the safety car restarts over the radio as bring unsafe. This was when the safety car was doing roughly 110km/h.
2) Upon becoming the safety car, Hamilton chose to slow the speed down to roughly 65 km/h. This was over a kilometre before the first safety car line.
3) As the de facto safety car, a driver has the responsibility to ensure that restarts are safe. Although a driver has the right to choose where he positions his car, he also has an increased responsibility to manage the field as other drivers can only ever react to him.
Therefore, given his concerns over the safety of restarts, Hamilton is responsible for the initial contact with Vettel. He deliberately slowed to a pace that was unnecessary at a point on the circuit notorious for being narrow. In any other circumstances, this would be fine, but his criticisms are the nail in the coffin. They demonstrate that safety was at the forefront of his mind, and the initial contact with Vettel was precisely the sort of incident he was critical of.
1) Hamilton repeatedly criticised the safety car restarts over the radio as bring unsafe. This was when the safety car was doing roughly 110km/h.
2) Upon becoming the safety car, Hamilton chose to slow the speed down to roughly 65 km/h. This was over a kilometre before the first safety car line.
3) As the de facto safety car, a driver has the responsibility to ensure that restarts are safe. Although a driver has the right to choose where he positions his car, he also has an increased responsibility to manage the field as other drivers can only ever react to him.
Therefore, given his concerns over the safety of restarts, Hamilton is responsible for the initial contact with Vettel. He deliberately slowed to a pace that was unnecessary at a point on the circuit notorious for being narrow. In any other circumstances, this would be fine, but his criticisms are the nail in the coffin. They demonstrate that safety was at the forefront of his mind, and the initial contact with Vettel was precisely the sort of incident he was critical of.
- 29,358
- Glasgow
- GTP_Mars
A bit like Vettel himself, you are choosing to focus on completely the wrong issue, but never mind. Your analysis of the situation is irrelevant - the FIA investigated Hamilton's actions and found nothing wrong. Case closed.
Now, where is the Ferrari telemetry that shows Vettel didn't put in an additional steering input to collide with Hamilton? You stated:
... so either show the telemetry that you are using as proof that Vettel didn't steer into Hamilton or retract the claim.
Now, where is the Ferrari telemetry that shows Vettel didn't put in an additional steering input to collide with Hamilton? You stated:
prisonermonkeys
... so either show the telemetry that you are using as proof that Vettel didn't steer into Hamilton or retract the claim.
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
Oh, I think it's a completely valid issue. If Hamilton was so concerned with the safety of the restarts, why didn't he make a more conscious effort to prevent an accident? If he wasn't and his calls for a virtual safety car were motivated by a desire to protect his lead, then how do his claims of Vettel acting deliberately hold and credibility? If he wanted a virtual safety car to protect his lead, it can be said that his complaint against Vettel is an attempt to get Vettel in as much trouble as possible and take points from him.
I don't need the telemetry anymore. The on-board footage (which I have seen again since yesterday) shows that the steering wheel didn't move a second time. Furthermore, the stewards' decision made no mention of an additional steering input.
As is yours. The stewards investigated and charged Vettel with dangerous driving. They did not charge him with deliberately causing a collision.
- 2,428
- England
- Lewis_Hamilton_
The mental gymnastics here are fascinating. Should I accidentally rear end some poor soul on the road one day, I'll make sure to go to the same lengths as yourself to lay all the blame on them for not speeding up when I put my foot down.
- 29,358
- Glasgow
- GTP_Mars
Yes you do, because you have claimed something important based on it but have failed repeatedly to produce the evidence to prove that you have seen it. Retract the claim or provide the evidence, I'm not going to ask again.
Similarly, what footage are you refering to - would that be the onboard footage with Vettel where you can't see the steering wheel or his steering hand at the crucial moment? The telemetry from the car is the only way to definitively prove that no additional steering input was made, as per your claim earlier - hence the above demand.
- 974
- GOTHEBURG
He made Vettel crash on purpose. I dont care about braking or not, he was doing dirty tricks. And , even if this following is not a reson, playing as if he is so mature and great driver thinking of all youngsters that may see this and get wrong impressions. Oh my god, he is a child him self when not winning. Rosberg should have stayed, think Ham would be 3d or even worse now.
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
Where is your evidence that he did it deliberately? The very same arguments that you make to refute my claim can be used to refute yours. At the very least, you should acknowledge that the available evidence does not definitively prove either case.
Furthermore, I have repeatedly pointed out that the stewards did not charge Vettel with deliberately causing an accident and you have so far failed to address this in any way. Case in point:
If it was as clear-cut as you claim, Vettel should have been penalised for deliberately causing an accident. He wasn't, and you have failed to provide anything to substantiate this claim.
The fact is that in the eyes of the stewards, Vettel did not deliberately drive into Hamilton. You claim that he did, which means that the burden is on you to prove it.
- 974
- GOTHEBURG
Article says Romain got final point but Wehrlain did. So writer of the article should just correct thats all, small thing but correct to do.
- 31,701
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- Dennisch
“The Stewards examined video evidence which showed that car 5 drove alongside and then steered into car 44,” the stewards’ decision states. “The Stewards decide this manoeuvre was deemed potentially dangerous.”
Link.
