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- TenEightyOne
- TenEightyOne
That was allegedly the Benettons which Schumacher moved to after his debut race with Jordan. Eddie Jordan wanted to keep Schumacher for obvious but, as Ron Dennis said to him, welcome to the piranha club.
2017 Formula 1 Rolex British Grand PrixFormula 1
- Thread starter Jimlaad43
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That was allegedly the Benettons which Schumacher moved to after his debut race with Jordan. Eddie Jordan wanted to keep Schumacher for obvious but, as Ron Dennis said to him, welcome to the piranha club.
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- HamiltonMP427
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- Spurgy777
You mean the guy Hamilton fairly easily beat in the 2014 and 2015, and that he beat in most races he finished in 2016 and only lost the championship thanks to an extra retirement? Don't get me wrong, Rosberg is a good driver, but he's not really someone Hamilton should struggle to beat most of the time, and considering that was almost literally his only competition for 3 years, it's not surprising he racked up a load of pole positions.
He's also been in a top 2 team for 8 out of his 10 seasons, the other two he was in a top 3 team, he's actually spent more time in a team that's winning the championship than one that's been outside the top 2! It is true that he is one of the best drivers on the grid, but to ignore the fact he's always been in one of the best teams when looking at the statistics is a bit dishonest. In fact, excluding Schumacher, it's probably safe to say no other driver in F1 history has spent as much time in a top 3 team than Hamilton, or at least close to it, although verifying that would take quite a while so can't say for certain, I can't think of any at least.
What about Schumacher? As I mentioned above he's probably one of, if not the only driver who has spent more time than Hamilton in a top 3 team, considering that his pole position record hardly puts him above the rest of the top F1 drivers. Even Schumachers 91 wins is to be somewhat expected from a top driver who has spent 14 seasons in a top 3 team, 7 of which he was in a championship winning team.
Schumacher was far from his best when Rosberg was racing him so it's not exactly surprising he beat him, but as I've said above, I still think Rosberg is a good driver, he's just not someone Hamilton should really struggle to beat most of the time, it's not like he was competing against Alonso or Vettel as a teammate.
True, Vettel's teammates haven't been great, but then for the most part Vettel has been wiping the floor with them as you would expect. And on the flip side the two times Hamilton has had a reigning champion as a teammate he's tied with them and just about beaten them, which is impressive and is one of the reasons he is one of the best drivers on the grid, but again it's nothing that clearly distinguishes him from the other top drivers.
As I've already said, none of these things really set Hamilton apart from the rest of the top F1 drivers, they all have their own impressive records that make them some of the best drivers in F1 history, but to try and pick them out as evidence that he is the best driver ever just makes you look silly because the same can be done for all the top drivers.[/quote][/quote]
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- TenEightyOne
- TenEightyOne
Now that's a disingenuous stat... "top 2" but "not winning" is "losing". The fact remains that he took many poles in years where he or his team didn't win the championship. No need to mulch it
But to say he had no completion isn't really fair, Rosberg beat him in 2014 in terms of qualifying and did far better than Lewis at the start of 2016 regardless.
That said Schumy and Senna have had equally dominant cars and I think it's fair to say that Nico offered more of a challenge when compared to Rubens.
While I think you make a valid point, you (as a driver) only get into a position like any of the top record holders by standing out in junior formula, something all of the ‘top’ drivers have done. Lewis being a good example, he dominated the junior series he was a part of beating the likes of Vettel in equal machinery.
If you look to F2 now you can see that there is a new name dominating and it’s fair to imagine that when he comes to F1 and he can perform he probably won’t spend the majority of his time in back markers.
I don't think it's fair to take away from any driver what they have achived, yes they had a great car to do it, but these guys proved themselves before they got to F1.
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- Spurgy777
Now that's a disingenuous stat... "top 2" but "not winning" is "losing". The fact remains that he took many poles in years where he or his team didn't win the championship. No need to mulch it
It really isn't a disingenuous stat, you're the one confining it to a championship winning team because it suits your argument. The reason I used that stat is it is a good indication of how many races he has done where he was driving a car capable of winning races and getting pole positions. Now it's not ideal, take the last 3 seasons for example where the 2nd place team has only had one pole position, but without going into quite a bit of detail for every season, you're not going to get a more accurate indication.
I said he had practically no competition, and the reason I said that was because the only driver who was in a position to beat him was his teammate, and as good as Rosberg is, he's not someone Hamilton should really be losing to most of the time, not someone he should beat easily, granted, but still less competition than in most F1 championships. Usually you have at least two teams competing for the title and it's rare for one team to be so dominant, let alone for 3 seasons.
But as I've said before, I agree that Hamilton is one of the best drivers on the grid, and probably one of the best ever, the same can be said for Alonso and Vettel, etc, what annoys me is when people pull out statistics to claim that driver X is the best ever when you can do that for pretty much all the best drivers.
On a side note, lots of money also helps in becoming a top driver.
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He didn't get beat by Rosberg most of the time.
80% of the times Rosberg won was when Hamilton was compromized. This article sums it up very clearly and held up by facts.
http://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id/18382320/the-curious-win-record-legacy-nico-rosberg
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- Spurgy777
That's exactly what I said, you're proving my point. Rosberg isn't good enough to beat Hamilton most of the time and he didn't beat him most of the time, and seeing as that was Hamilton's only competition thanks to no other driver having a car to compete for 3 years running, Hamilton has had it relatively easy. Hence why I said that Hamilton's pole record hardly can be used as evidence for why he is better than all the other top drivers.
I mean the Mercedes has been so dominant over the past 3 years that Rosberg has managed to get more pole positions in that time than Alonso has got in his entire career. You give that sort of a car to a top driver and their going to have poles left, right and center.
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- desmodan
- what's an Xbox ?
I'm not a Hamilton fan boy but I'm certainly not a hater.
The problem with comparing any driver is that the machinery has changed vastly over the years , tyre size and construction , downforce , h pattern gearboxes auto semiauto sequential , disc or drum bakes, heaven knows how many different types of suspension , engine position .
And who knows how each driver would have dealt with any variant other than the generation they raced . They all have different strengths and weaknesses which enable them to deal with different circumstances with varying degrees of success .
The problem with comparing any driver is that the machinery has changed vastly over the years , tyre size and construction , downforce , h pattern gearboxes auto semiauto sequential , disc or drum bakes, heaven knows how many different types of suspension , engine position .
And who knows how each driver would have dealt with any variant other than the generation they raced . They all have different strengths and weaknesses which enable them to deal with different circumstances with varying degrees of success .
