2019 Porsche 911 (992)

[homeforsummer]

I didn't consider the safety angle, actually. As for the Cayman, I find the styling changes and the god awful new naming convention even more troubling than the engine!

I quite like the styling (from the front mainly) and car naming rarely bothers me, but the four-cylinders still irritate me. It's not that it's a bad engine either (though it doesn't sound brilliant to my ears), and it's not just anti-four-cylinder negativity either. I like loads of fours, and the 1.8 in the Cayman's direct rival from Alpine suits it perfectly. It's more that it unnecessarily removed a great flat-six that really added value to the way the Cayman felt, sounded and responded.

 

[kikie]

The first time I test drove the 991 GTS I immediately felt like this car was huge. It felt like I was driving a Porsche and they added a piece to the back of the car. Mind you, I drove the 997 of my neighbour the same day so I was able to feel the difference in size and kind of weight as well.

I also drove the Boxter S the same day before I drove the GTS and the difference in how this car felt compared to the 991 was huge.

 

[Carbon_6]

simply increasing the size of the car does seem like the easier engineering route, rather than the right one. Don't get me wrong, the 991 is a brilliant car and I'm certain the 992 will be too, but from a size and "vibe" perspective the 991 definitely lost something from the 997 and earlier 911s. There was something quite special about sitting in what felt like a narrower cockpit and closer to the windscreen.

I would say the 991 still generates the same sort of vibe as the 997, even if it's not as enclosed regarding driving position.

Driving both generations on the same day across four cars earlier this year, the size comparison was noticeable, but what I felt behind the wheel of the pair of 991s was arguably no different to what I had felt in the 997s.

The earlier cars definitely felt more "intimate" in terms of the cabin space and proximity to everything. The newer pair seemed to fit just right: nothing was out of reach, but nothing was in your lap either, for want of a better phrase.

For reference, here are the cars I drove in the order of play:

Carrera (991.2)
GT3 RS (997.2)
GT2 (997)
GT3 (991.2)

 

[homeforsummer]

I would say the 991 still generates the same sort of vibe as the 997, even if it's not as enclosed regarding driving position.

For me that's more down to it feeling like a "Porsche", and hopping into say, a Panamera (not necessarily the current one, but certainly the last one) you get a lot of that feeling. But the 991 certainly feels like there's a lot more metal around it than a 997 or 996. In some ways that's a good thing as it feels even more of a quality item, and driving it quickly it undoubtedly is still a 911, but that intimacy in cabin size you mention is a key characteristic that the current ones lack.

 

[Danoff]

intimacy in cabin

"Intimacy" is a good word for that. You should write about cars or something.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

That said, simply increasing the size of the car does seem like the easier engineering route, rather than the right one. Don't get me wrong, the 991 is a brilliant car and I'm certain the 992 will be too, but from a size and "vibe" perspective the 991 definitely lost something from the 997 and earlier 911s. There was something quite special about sitting in what felt like a narrower cockpit and closer to the windscreen.

I suppose you can (and kinda do) get that from a Cayman these days, but that has its own problems (*cough*notenoughcylinders*cough*).

I've never driven a 996 or 997 but if they are similar to my 986 (I think the 996 is probably exactly the same) regarding the geometry of the seating position to the dash and the windscreen, and generally the cockpit ergonomics, I totally get what you're on about. While I've driven a few cars that push this aspect even further (the S2000 cockpit feels like wearing a helmet), the early watercooled P-cars I think nail the coziness/usability perfectly.

(I've also never driven an air-cooled Porsche, but they appear to have similar cockpit characteristics, only more spartan and a little less overtly inviting).

 

[homeforsummer]

"Intimacy" is a good word for that. You should write about cars or something.

To be fair @Carbon_6 used that term first!

I've never driven a 996 or 997 but if they are similar to my 986 (I think the 996 is probably exactly the same) regarding the geometry of the seating position to the dash and the windscreen, and generally the cockpit ergonomics, I totally get what you're on about. While I've driven a few cars that push this aspect even further (the S2000 cockpit feels like wearing a helmet), the early watercooled P-cars I think nail the coziness/usability perfectly.

(I've also never driven an air-cooled Porsche, but they appear to have similar cockpit characteristics, only more spartan and a little less overtly inviting).

I don't think I've ever driven a 986 or 987, but I suspect you're right about the 986/996 similarities. Roadsters are always pretty good for that, but there's something quite special about it in 911s because you're still - sort of - in a four-seat cockpit, so the way it shrinks around you is somehow even more impressive. At the same time, it doesn't feel claustrophobic, just well-judged cosiness. Also great visibility - that's definitely one area the 997 and back score over the 991.

The only aircooled 911 I've ever driven had a similar feel, though as a modified example with its seat virtually on the floor it felt a bit odd. It was almost like there was too much space, but most of it was above my head...

I generally prefer cars to feel more compact. Not just because of the dynamic benefits of having a smaller, lighter car (and being able to use more space on the road without crossing the centreline or clipping the verge, which is always good), but also more selfishly because I'm about 5'8" and I always feel like there's just wasted space around me if I'm in something needlessly large! I can totally appreciate big cars but if something feels like I'm basically wearing it then all the better.

 

[Danoff]

To be fair @Carbon_6 used that term first!

How did I not notice that.

 

[Stotty]

I've never driven a 996 or 997 but if they are similar to my 986 (I think the 996 is probably exactly the same) regarding the geometry of the seating position to the dash and the windscreen, and generally the cockpit ergonomics, I totally get what you're on about. While I've driven a few cars that push this aspect even further (the S2000 cockpit feels like wearing a helmet), the early watercooled P-cars I think nail the coziness/usability perfectly.

(I've also never driven an air-cooled Porsche, but they appear to have similar cockpit characteristics, only more spartan and a little less overtly inviting).

996 has more room for the driver - 986 and 987 are constrained by the rear bulk head. Meaning if you have the seat all the way back on the runners, you need to have the backrest quite upright. I'm 6'4", with a 35" inside leg, and I'm OK in a 986/987 for short journeys, but I'd really struggle to be comfortable in one for any decent length of time. Wouldn't be a problem for anyone under 6'.

 

[kikie]

Wouldn't be a problem for anyone under 6'.

Yay, me, me, me!

 

[Stotty]

As a lover of old cars, I’ve found there are many I just don’t fit in... Muira for example... tried to sit in one, and failed.

911’s, even old ones, are fine though.

 

[lancia delta hf]

As a lover of old cars, I’ve found there are many I just don’t fit in... Muira for example... tried to sit in one, and failed.

911’s, even old ones, are fine though.

That's because us Italians were short in the 60. I'm over 6ft though so I'd probably struggle too.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

996 has more room for the driver - 986 and 987 are constrained by the rear bulk head. Meaning if you have the seat all the way back on the runners, you need to have the backrest quite upright. I'm 6'4", with a 35" inside leg, and I'm OK in a 986/987 for short journeys, but I'd really struggle to be comfortable in one for any decent length of time. Wouldn't be a problem for anyone under 6'.

70" over here.

I find my totally average height actually quite useful when it comes to being a car enthusiast....even if not so much for dating.

 

[Beeblebrox237]

EVO posted some spy shots of a nearly undisguised cabrio:

​

I'm not a fan.

 

[homeforsummer]

70" over here.

I'm about 68" tall so can fit in more or less anything. Though it's among the reasons I prefer smaller cars, as particularly large German saloons start to make me feel like a child (I assume cars bigger than a 5-series or E-class are basically designed for 7'-tall captains of industry). It's also an ethos thing though. Why am I dragging all this metal around with me if it's just me in the car?...

911s have, mostly, been relatively compact, but also a usable size generally like @Stotty says. It helps that Porsche knows how to do a driving position these days, so you can adjust seats and wheel to suit pretty much anyone. I certainly feel more "comfortable" in a Cayman or Boxster than I do a 991 though, as they do feel like they were created with slightly shorter people in mind!

 

[Tornado]

Those high sills are not kind to the car when the roof doesn't distract from them.

 

[McLaren]

That's because us Italians were short in the 60. I'm over 6ft though so I'd probably struggle too.

You’re all still short. Any Lambo isn’t tall people friendly, even these days unless you buy a Roadster/Spyder.

 

[lancia delta hf]

You’re all still short. Any Lambo isn’t tall people friendly, even these days unless you buy a Roadster/Spyder.

My parents, Granparents, uncles, aunties are all short, but myself, my bros and most of my cousins are all over 6 feet.

 

[kikie]

I'm not a convertible fan but Porsche did it again. The new 992 convertible is a beautiful car.

 

[mustafur]

Car must look like a Turtle without the roof on.

 

[SiriusR]

The tall engine compartment doesn't look good on this car.

Also, what's the point of these tiny camo bits? They're the same as on the coupe, which has already been unveiled.
This may sound really weird, but I've started to find these really annoying.

 

[SPhilli911]

Also, what's the point of these tiny camo bits? They're the same as on the coupe, which has already been unveiled.
This may sound really weird, but I've started to find these really annoying.

Probably just that this is a test car and they didn't bother removing all the camo bits after they unveiled the coupe.

 

[Danoff]

The cabrio is always the disfavored 911. It's ok.

 

[McLaren]

If you really want an open top 911, I think the Targa is always the best option to spring for. They look great.

 

[homeforsummer]

If you really want an open top 911, I think the Targa is always the best option to spring for. They look great.

Interesting to see which approach they go for with this generation, as they've changed a reasonable amount over the years.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

If you really want an open top 911...

Get a Boxster.

edit: Sadly they are less compatible now that the Boxster is no longer available with a 'six'. The 981 Boxster was a really great looking car...I'm tempted to say better looking the 991 911 Cabrio (never been the biggest fan of the 991 generally) or 981 Cayman. I'm somewhat biased, but MR roadsters are pretty awesome.

 

[homeforsummer]

Get a Boxster.

edit: Sadly they are less compatible now that the Boxster is no longer available with a 'six'. The 981 Boxster was a really great looking car...I'm tempted to say better looking the 991 911 Cabrio (never been the biggest fan of the 991 generally) or 981 Cayman. I'm somewhat biased, but MR roadsters are pretty awesome.

First one to use completely different bodywork from the 911, which really helped the 981's proportions. In the right colour and spec it's a genuinely fantastic-looking car. That said, the 986 and 987 are both ageing nicely. I think there will come a day when I'm going to really regret not picking up a tidy, early 986.

 

[kikie]

 

[kikie]

But what if the (wet) sensors in the wheel arches are clogged up with dirt?

 

[Carlos]

None of you guys went for the Sportdesign package in the configurator? Or isn't it an option for you? The rear looks much better I think, especially because the license plate is moved up.

This would be mine