2019 Virgin Australia Supercars ChampionshipTouring Cars

[Ozzoky]

I don't watch the Blancpain GT series so I can't comment on that but drivers can take the piss for nearly a full lap as it stands now, but with a combination of strict micro section management (like F1) and controlled use by Race Control of the drive-by-wire throttle system there will be little to no time to be gained by anyone. I don't think you understood my meaning of using the DBW. It makes it very easy to slow the whole field at exactly the same time (by RC).

Thanks for the DBW info. From what I saw in the recent past in the Blancpain GT series, I don’t think the VSC has this technology. Race Control warns the drivers and teams that VSC will start after a countdown and that’s where the human factor comes into play. Some drivers take a lot of time to slow down after the countdown. I guess it’s the engine noise in some cars…

The more obvious infringements get penalized but there is still a lot of stuff that goes unpunished. It is clear that after the restart the time gaps are not similar to the ones before the VSC.

Now this part astounds me . In one sentence you're concerned with tenths of seconds but in the next you're advocating for a chook lotto scenario.

You obviously never watched Supercars back when they trialled closed pit lanes under green, because it essentially turned some races into luck of the draw on where cars crashed in relation to your position on the track. It mostly favoured back markers getting a free kick and diving into the pits just before pit lane was closed for SC... sometimes it was a couple of cars, sometimes it was all but the front running pack. The front runners were then stuck behind the SC being the only ones that hadn't pitted and having to wait to stop under green... yeah well, you can imagine how well that went down with all the top drivers effectively shafted (in some cases by nearly a full lap)!!

I don’t remember watching a Supercars race with closed pitlanes but I saw races in other series (again I can use a couple of examples of the Blancpain GT series) where a driver is in the back of the pack and pits under VSC and gets out in the lead (after the pit cycle) because everybody else was driving slower when he pitted. Imagine that happening in a sprint race in Supercars… it’s worse than the Pukekohe mess.

My logic is that the impact of safety procedures in the race results should be kept to a minimum.

I don't hate it how it is now, the drivers just need to show some caution under caution. If they could be trusted to run at less than the couple of tenths under race pace that they do now it would be fine... but they can't... and this is why race series have had to introduce Virtual Safety Cars in the first place.

Pit lane is a whole different kettle of fish, at least the cars are speed limited. You still got the whole field diving into the pits with a closed under caution pit lane. No one could risk the other scenario that happened (as mentioned above), so if at all possible, everyone who could pit did at the slightest sniff of trouble.

I also think the current situation outside the pitlane is ok but the double stacking doesn’t make any sense. Why is it acceptable that a driver can’t exit his pit because another one is blocking him because of the double stacking? This is not something we expect to see in a professional series.

 

[FPV MIC]

Thanks for the DBW info. From what I saw in the recent past in the Blancpain GT series, I don’t think the VSC has this technology. Race Control warns the drivers and teams that VSC will start after a countdown and that’s where the human factor comes into play. Some drivers take a lot of time to slow down after the countdown. I guess it’s the engine noise in some cars…

The more obvious infringements get penalized but there is still a lot of stuff that goes unpunished. It is clear that after the restart the time gaps are not similar to the ones before the VSC.

Yep, for sure, drivers will take the piss at every possible occasion especially with what seems is a very flawed system. That's exactly why I mentioned taking that out of their control.

Next season any team is allowed to run drive by wire but it's not mandatory. Supercars should be pro-active for a change and make it mandatory. We already have micro-sectors so we're only some software away from virtual safety car being a viable option.

I don’t remember watching a Supercars race with closed pitlanes but I saw races in other series (again I can use a couple of examples of the Blancpain GT series) where a driver is in the back of the pack and pits under VSC and gets out in the lead (after the pit cycle) because everybody else was driving slower when he pitted. Imagine that happening in a sprint race in Supercars… it’s worse than the Pukekohe mess.

Closed pit lanes was nearly 20 years ago (early 2000's).

Also, are you sure it was because of other drivers speed and not differing strategies? That sort of thing can easily happen by taking on less fuel or not changing tyres. If it wasn't then Blancpain's system is truly flawed.... good thing it's not the system I was suggesting .

My logic is that the impact of safety procedures in the race results should be kept to a minimum.

I also think the current situation outside the pitlane is ok but the double stacking doesn’t make any sense. Why is it acceptable that a driver can’t exit his pit because another one is blocking him because of the double stacking? This is not something we expect to see in a professional series.

And I agree that the impact of safety procedures in the race results should be kept to a minimum. That's one of the reasons why I'm suggesting this system, the other is safety.

Regarding double stacking, I don't know one single person that thinks it's acceptable. This is also something the virtual safety car could eliminate. One car from each team stops one lap, the other on the next. This would be a bit harder to figure out the intricacies of though (especially at this time of the morning, I'm a bit burnt out atm ), but it could also bring another of my pet hates into play... time certain finishes.

Just to add, one of the first times I went to The Bend I couldn't believe how tight the pit lane was for a brand new track, especially when they had a clean slate and double stacking was a well known issue. Just crazy imho .

Spoiler: Some photo's I took to show how skinny pit lane was at The Bend

 

[CodeRedR51]

Kelly's could switch to Mustangs next year.

https://www.speedcafe.com/2019/09/25/engine-rules-could-see-kelly-racing-make-mustang-switch/

 

[Pete05]

Yep, for sure, drivers will take the piss at every possible occasion especially with what seems is a very flawed system. That's exactly why I mentioned taking that out of their control.

Next season any team is allowed to run drive by wire but it's not mandatory. Supercars should be pro-active for a change and make it mandatory. We already have micro-sectors so we're only some software away from virtual safety car being a viable option.

Closed pit lanes was nearly 20 years ago (early 2000's).

Also, are you sure it was because of other drivers speed and not differing strategies? That sort of thing can easily happen by taking on less fuel or not changing tyres. If it wasn't then Blancpain's system is truly flawed.... good thing it's not the system I was suggesting .


And I agree that the impact of safety procedures in the race results should be kept to a minimum. That's one of the reasons why I'm suggesting this system, the other is safety.

Regarding double stacking, I don't know one single person that thinks it's acceptable. This is also something the virtual safety car could eliminate. One car from each team stops one lap, the other on the next. This would be a bit harder to figure out the intricacies of though (especially at this time of the morning, I'm a bit burnt out atm ), but it could also bring another of my pet hates into play... time certain finishes.

Just to add, one of the first times I went to The Bend I couldn't believe how tight the pit lane was for a brand new track, especially when they had a clean slate and double stacking was a well known issue. Just crazy imho .

Spoiler: Some photo's I took to show how skinny pit lane was at The Bend

View attachment 853219 View attachment 853220

I don’t think you could find anyone that hates double-stacking in pitlane more than one Craig Lowndes.

Triple 8 are probably the only ones that have the data available, but I’d love them to work out just how much time CL lost as a result of waiting behind JDub.
Did it cost him points? No doubt.
Did it cost him race wins? Definitely.
Did it cost him a championship? I reckon so & I’m sure it cost him the 2011 Bathurst 1000 & seriously damaged his prospects in others.

1000% agree with you about DBW tech.
It’s available now but, as usual, Supercars are asleep at the wheel.

 

[05XR8]

Kelly's could switch to Mustangs next year.

https://www.speedcafe.com/2019/09/25/engine-rules-could-see-kelly-racing-make-mustang-switch/

That's one way to get Simona in a mustang.

 

[CodeRedR51]

That's one way to get Simona in a mustang.

Two cars, probably Rick and Andre.

 

[05XR8]

Two cars, probably Rick and Andre.

Yeah, I was thinking of putting the rolls eyes emoji in my post.

 

[FPV MIC]

A very small step in the right direction, but if driver's can't obey a safety car light, why do they think this will work?

https://www.speedcafe.com/2019/09/25/in-car-hazard-warning-system-set-for-bathurst-1000/

 

[Spacegoat]

Two cars, probably Rick and Andre.

If does happen (which only seems like a matter of time). It's going to weird seeing Rick in a Mustang.

 

[05XR8]

If does happen (which only seems like a matter of time). It's going to weird seeing Rick in a Mustang.

It'll finally match his hairstyle.

 

[Pete05]

A very small step in the right direction, but if driver's can't obey a safety car light, why do they think this will work?

https://www.speedcafe.com/2019/09/25/in-car-hazard-warning-system-set-for-bathurst-1000/

It's OK. Craig has JDub's prized possessions under lock & key until after Bathurst.

He gets them back if he's a good boy

 

[Ozzoky]

Also, are you sure it was because of other drivers speed and not differing strategies? That sort of thing can easily happen by taking on less fuel or not changing tyres. If it wasn't then Blancpain's system is truly flawed.... good thing it's not the system I was suggesting .

Yes, I’m sure. It’s pretty simple: if you pit under green flag racing everybody else is going at max speed so you lose more time to your competitors. If you pit under VSC then everybody is going at a limited speed so you lose less time to them. You don’t even have to consider the pitting scenario: if the VSC is activated when you are in the faster part of the circuit you lose more time to the drivers that are in the slower part of the circuit. In longer races this might not be a decisive factor but it can be in a sprint race.

As an alternative procedure, GP2/Fórmula 2 also has VSC but usually goes to a normal safety car procedure (to bunch up the field) before going green again.

I prefer the current Supercars procedure if done properly.

Just to add, one of the first times I went to The Bend I couldn't believe how tight the pit lane was for a brand new track, especially when they had a clean slate and double stacking was a well known issue. Just crazy imho .

I agree. It doesn’t make any sense. IMO The Bend looks great to drive but a terrible circuit for tv broadcasting. I don’t really know why… maybe because it’s too long?

I don’t think you could find anyone that hates double-stacking in pitlane more than one Craig Lowndes.

I guess Fabian can ask Craig to give him a few pointers…
A team with two similar and consistent drivers will always be at a disadvantage with the double stacking.

 

[FPV MIC]

Yes, I’m sure. It’s pretty simple: if you pit under green flag racing everybody else is going at max speed so you lose more time to your competitors. If you pit under VSC then everybody is going at a limited speed so you lose less time to them.

That's comparing two different types of stops though and is not what you were describing earlier.

You don’t even have to consider the pitting scenario: if the VSC is activated when you are in the faster part of the circuit you lose more time to the drivers that are in the slower part of the circuit. In longer races this might not be a decisive factor but it can be in a sprint race.

As an alternative procedure, GP2/Fórmula 2 also has VSC but usually goes to a normal safety car procedure (to bunch up the field) before going green again.

I think you need to watch the video I linked again . Every sector is slowed by exactly the same percentage (in F1 it's 30% I think) so every car runs a total lap time exactly the same.
Here, it should start at the relevant bit:


And they still have the same option as how GP2/Fórmula 2 do it with any VSC. Different circumstances can be treated in different ways.

I prefer the current Supercars procedure if done properly.

As I've mentioned (several times), it would be fine if drivers didn't race under Safety Car conditions... but they do... all of them. This is why VSC was brought in, it's just Supercars are way behind the game... as always.

 

[Ozzoky]

That's comparing two different types of stops though and is not what you were describing earlier.

It was. Probably it was not clear enough…

I think you need to watch the video I linked again . Every sector is slowed by exactly the same percentage (in F1 it's 30% I think) so every car runs a total lap time exactly the same.

Never mind. I was talking about Blancpain’s VSC examples (speed limited) and you are talking about F1 (% of speed). I only see F1 highlights so I am not aware of the details of the current safety car (well… I am now). DBW approved. 👍

it's just Supercars are way behind the game... as always.

They do take time to implement some obvious improvements but they also have good examples like in restarts the “maintaining speed and no weaving after the safety car lights are off”. I can’t explain why F1 and other top racing series have not implemented this rule yet?!? Remember the Vettel vs Hamilton incident in Baku? Or, also in Baku, a huge crash after a restart in a GP2 race?

 

[FPV MIC]

It was. Probably it was not clear enough…

Never mind. I was talking about Blancpain’s VSC examples (speed limited) and you are talking about F1 (% of speed). I only see F1 highlights so I am not aware of the details of the current safety car (well… I am now). DBW approved. 👍

👍 All good mate... and yeah it's hard to explain things to each other when we're in different rooms. It's so much easier with just the simple addition of hand gestures to describe things.

They do take time to implement some obvious improvements but they also have good examples like in restarts the “maintaining speed and no weaving after the safety car lights are off”. I can’t explain why F1 and other top racing series have not implemented this rule yet?!? Remember the Vettel vs Hamilton incident in Baku? Or, also in Baku, a huge crash after a restart in a GP2 race?

This is a tricky one for F1, and much easier for Supercars to implement. F1's use of tyre warmers pretty much dictates that they have to keep the heat/pressures up by weaving so they really have no choice but to allow it. It's down to tyre construction and ride height more than anything else. Supercars can also release the safety car much, much later than F1 because there's nowhere near the speed difference.

Edited to add: I do agree, it's definitely the right thing for Supercars 👍.

And the Vettel vs Hamilton incident in Baku.... Vettel was just being a dick (which he apologised for later).

 

[Spacegoat]

T8's retro early 70's HDT livery for Bathurst.

Think it's the blue bonnet and logo's that are ruining it for me. It's okay.

 

[FPV MIC]

T8's retro early 70's HDT livery for Bathurst.

Think it's the blue bonnet and logo's that are ruining it for me. It's okay.

Okay is about as far as I'd go. It just doesn't look retro enough for me, especially when comparing to the real one (even though it's a Biante model of the real one )

Spoiler: How retro should be done

My two favourites (plus many of the Kelly's Castrol liveries)

 

[Pete05]

T8's retro early 70's HDT livery for Bathurst.

Think it's the blue bonnet and logo's that are ruining it for me. It's okay.

Yeah, it’s ok but I don’t care what it looks like so long as Craig gets another 1st place.

 

[ScottPuss20]

T8's retro early 70's HDT livery for Bathurst.

Think it's the blue bonnet and logo's that are ruining it for me. It's okay.

It's just a repaint of the current car; the logo placement is identical but with different colours. Not that creative to be honest but then again Red Bull haven't had much history and ripping off the classic HRT liveries is just sacrilege; it's not like they can do much...

 

[05XR8]

Wonder what livery WAU run now?

 

[Spacegoat]

Wonder what livery WAU run now?

Probably Mobil 1 if no one else steps up. Pretty sure BJR have run that Mobil fuel livery before? Looks fantastic though. 👍

 

[Pete05]

Wonder what livery WAU run now?

What’s with the black back of the car? Brock’s wasn’t like that.

I guess we’ve got three Mobil cars for the 1000.

 

[Spacegoat]

I guess we’ve got three Mobil cars for the 1000.

Three Boost Mobile sponsored cars as well. With the Kostecki bros entry.

 

[FPV MIC]

I'm still on the fence with this one. I suppose it's not worse, and probably (maybe) even a bit better than before. It may grow on me .

At least it's a new sponsor coming in for a change.

 

[05XR8]

I'm still on the fence with this one. I suppose it's not worse, and probably (maybe) even a bit better than before. It may grow on me .

View attachment 854645

At least it's a new sponsor coming in for a change.

Now it looks like a green banana.

 

[TheHun99]

IndyCar-staffed WAU Holden looks pretty good: https://www.motorsport.com/v8supercars/news/rossi-hinchliffe-bathurst-1000-entry/4550376/

 

[Spacegoat]

IndyCar-staffed WAU Holden looks pretty good:

Really does. Think that may be one of my favorite liveries this year.

Just hope the "Where's My Concrete" slogan on the front isn't an omen.

 

[05XR8]

Think I missed this
https://autoaction.com.au/2019/09/25/btcc-star-linked-to-walkinshaw

 

[FPV MIC]

I sense Chaz may be towing the line a bit for his future boss here .

https://www.speedcafe.com/2019/10/02/mostert-wau-wildcard-a-dark-horse-in-open-bathurst-fight/

Dark horse

 

[Spacegoat]

I sense Chaz may be towing the line a bit for his future boss here .

Hope Rossi and Hinchcliffe do well but calling them a "dark horse" is a little too much.