2019 W Series

[MatskiMonk]

Was everybody complaining when Lewis, F1's first and only black driver, called for more to be done to promote ethnic diversity... or did I miss that.

 

[adb]

Was everybody complaining when Lewis, F1's first and only black driver, called for more to be done to promote ethnic diversity... or did I miss that.

Not really, but nobody started a “ethnically diverse” F3 racing series, so nothing to complain about.

 

[Lord of Tranz]

2 thoughts come to mind.

Firstly, about time really. I mean it's 2018 and women really just shouldn't be treated differently or excluded from most anything. (Except penis model maybe, as Joey in Friends pointed out, lol. Just having a giggle folks).

Anyway, great to see of course. But why does it have to be a women's only thing? Why can't female racers just enter any bloody competition/feeder program anyway, lol.

Why separate them still, lol. Daft, IMO. Just baby steps still. Like golf or most sports, so institutionally sexist still.

 

[twitcher]

2 thoughts come to mind.

Firstly, about time really. I mean it's 2018 and women really just shouldn't be treated differently or excluded from most anything. (Except penis model maybe, as Joey in Friends pointed out, lol. Just having a giggle folks).

Anyway, great to see of course. But why does it have to be a women's only thing? Why can't female racers just enter any bloody competition/feeder program anyway, lol.

Why separate them still, lol. Daft, IMO. Just baby steps still. Like golf or most sports, so institutionally sexist still.

Umm, I think you are mistaken...it’s not like women were not allowed in motorsport before this. They always have been, and there are a number of women competing very successfully in various championships across the globe.

In no way shape or form are women actively excluded from motorsport. There are many reasons why there are not a large number of women in motorsports, but it’s definitely not because they are not allowed to participate, or are excluded from participating.

Your second question, why does it have to be a woman’s only thing, is the question begging an answer. There is no “mens only” motorsport, so why “womens only”?

 

[05XR8]

Was everybody complaining when Lewis, F1's first and only black driver, called for more to be done to promote ethnic diversity... or did I miss that.

I remember seeing Lewis in Jet Magazine(African - American publication), as one to watch, about 11/12 years ago. I was probably in a handful of black people(in my neighbourhood, family, friends, coworkers) that knew about him before entering F1.
Karun Chandhok was there, as well as Vijay. Isn't the female head at Sauber, of Indian descent? I think one of Schumacher's mechanics is of African descent.

Comes down to caring. I tried to make people I know, aware of James Stewart, Bubba Wallace and other racers. My family know of Nicole Lyons(races funny cars) because, I'd post everything about her on Facebook.

Which brings me to that sport. Drag racing, like touring cars, allows anyone to line up against a competitor. Why is that? As pointed out, if women, different ethnicities aren't attending races as fans, aren't doing grass roots events, hell, aren't watching it on TV, it's a hard sell.

 

[TomBrady]

"it's a situation that needs to change"

I just don't understand this notion. Are there women who are competitive enough but being held out because they're women? I was under the impression successful women racers get extra attention and sponsorship because most people want more women in motorsport. Well except for feminists, they'd rather take away paying jobs from women in motorsports (grid girls)

What if women simply aren't as into racing as men are? I'm sick of this nonsense idea that unequal outcomes means there must be inequity. It's just like the ridiculous wage gap myth, which in truth is an earnings gap and has nothing to do with wages since the statistics they love quoting is based on yearly earnings, not wages.

The amount of women in motorsports doesn't needs to change even if we'd like it to, and frankly, whatever is stopping them doesn't necessarily need to change either. Like I said, what if they're just not as interested? Should we tell girls, NO!!! You can't do what you want, you need to become a racing driver!!!

That being said, I hope this program works. I really do. Hopefully it leads to more girls being encouraged to race and from that, we'll get more competitive women. It's one thing to say it's a necessary change and another to say it's one we're hoping to see.

If a W league is what it takes, I say why not. It would be cool and interesting to see women in more motorsports.

And thankfully, I think they're most likely just as capable as men, correct? It's not like olympic sports that need to be separated by gender because of the massive differences in testosterone between biological males and females. If there is a difference it's not nearly as pronounced as say sprinting or pole vaulting would be so I would enjoy seeing more women in racing, and some day F1.

I just don't like the idea that because it's so rare to see women in motorsports that means THINGS NEED TO CHANGE!!!!!!!! As if everything in life is supposed to be equal between the sexes

Despite what feminazi's may think, men and women are different, and there's nothing wrong with that.

 

[DR_MOJO91]

"it's a situation that needs to change"

I just don't understand this notion. Are there women who are competitive enough but being held out because they're women? I was under the impression successful women racers get extra attention and sponsorship because most people want more women in motorsport. Well except for feminists, they'd rather take away paying jobs from women in motorsports (grid girls)

What if women simply aren't as into racing as men are? I'm sick of this nonsense idea that unequal outcomes means there must be inequity. It's just like the ridiculous wage gap myth, which in truth is an earnings gap and has nothing to do with wages since the statistics they love quoting is based on yearly earnings, not wages.

The amount of women in motorsports doesn't needs to change even if we'd like it to, and frankly, whatever is stopping them doesn't necessarily need to change either. Like I said, what if they're just not as interested? Should we tell girls, NO!!! You can't do what you want, you need to become a racing driver!!!

That being said, I hope this program works. I really do. Hopefully it leads to more girls being encouraged to race and from that, we'll get more competitive women. It's one thing to say it's a necessary change and another to say it's one we're hoping to see.

If a W league is what it takes, I say why not. It would be cool and interesting to see women in more motorsports.

And thankfully, I think they're most likely just as capable as men, correct? It's not like olympic sports that need to be separated by gender because of the massive differences in testosterone between biological males and females. If there is a difference it's not nearly as pronounced as say sprinting or pole vaulting would be so I would enjoy seeing more women in racing, and some day F1.

I just don't like the idea that because it's so rare to see women in motorsports that means THINGS NEED TO CHANGE!!!!!!!! As if everything in life is supposed to be equal between the sexes

Despite what feminazi's may think, men and women are different, and there's nothing wrong with that.

The feminnazis are smoking some stuff if they think women are on par with men in actual auto racing especially F1. Give the same specs and everything my money is on the men 9/10times to trash the female. They must have watched that cute AUDI commercial.

 

[Furinkazen]

Probably the dumbest idea since the FIA decided a certain Miss Jorda was a good idea to be involved.

Why do we need a woman only series? Motorsport is an open gender sport, unlike athletics where it actually makes sense to have a gender split. The idea of this series is just pushing the gender gap in motorsports even more. The execution of it is even worse - in an expensive world of motorsports it's actually sexist against men (yes that does exist, which a 21st century politically correct world forgets) as you're offering them a free ticket based on gender, not ability.

Lower down the motor racing ladder you get more female drivers - the key is not many make it to an international level. That isn't (and has never been) because they are female - it's because like men they simply aren't good enough. If you have for example 50 male drivers for every 1 female driver all going for Formula One, then you have 50 times more chance of a male driver getting there.

Female drivers like anyone else raise budgets, work hard for their careers but what is this going to do? They want to find a F1-worthy driver. Fair enough, but please name 20 notable, highly talented currently active female racing drivers. Then when we get this grid of 20 drivers, ask why half of them (if not all) were not in high profile series - answer is pretty much always going to be because they weren't good enough. And if someone says "well F1 isn't all talent, it includes pay drivers" then consult the case of Milka Duno in Indycar.

Furthermore the only way a driver gets better is competing with the best in the business, be it competitively on track or within a team or working together in a garage. With no disrespect, 20 female drivers competing against each other are not going to bring out the best progress in one another that 1 or 2 could get through racing alongside international male drivers.

This is more an exercise in political correctness than actual racing. Going to be interested in the selection process for this though.

Oh and we tried this in the UK once before. It didn't work.

 

[Northstar]

Like I said, what if they're just not as interested?

What if they are but have no clue of how to go about getting involved in it?

I'm not sure if you've noticed, but motorsports isn't exactly a growing hobby at the moment so attempting to appeal to new markets is a must if you want to see people driving competitively in the long haul.

as you're offering them a free ticket based on gender, not ability.

It is based on ability though.

Those hoping to compete will not have to bring sponsorship, but will have to prove their ability through a selection process to ensure the grid is full of the best talent possible.

Seems pretty much a competition in the same vein as GT Academy only aimed at women instead of gamers.

 

[gtrotary]

Gender equality through special treatment in the elite stratosphere of privilege seems like a hilarious concept.

 

[twitcher]

What if they are but have no clue of how to go about getting involved in it?

Holy patronizing man-splaining batman. “What if they are interested in motorsport but have no clue how to get involved”...??

How 🤬 stupid do you think the average woman is? If any person is incapable of working Google, how the hell are they supposed to become a top level racing driver???

It is based on ability though.

But only if you’re female. If you’re male and faster, but perhaps still can’t afford F3, you are excluded from this free to enter series.

Furthermore, the criteria to get in is based on more than just raw pace. If it was, they could have regional qualifiers to get to the main game. Instead, 3 old dudes are going to “look at all the data”, which includes both lap times and photographs, using factors like “who is faster” and “who is more marketable” to decide which girls get to be the lucky 18 (is it me or does this sound like a pageant?)

Seems pretty much a competition in the same vein as GT Academy only aimed at women instead of gamers.

That’s just it...GT Acadmy was open to anyone who could get access to a PS4. This W-Series is open to anyone who has possession of a vagina. Do you see the fundamental difference between the two (although, in our brave new world, any man can get a boob job and call themselves a woman....will be interesting to see how the FIA tackle that mess should it arise )

Edit:

Gender equality through special treatment in the elite stratosphere of privilege seems like a hilarious concept.

/thread!!! Brilliantly put!!! I’m dying laughing right now

 

[SlipZtrEm]

That’s just it...GT Acadmy was open to anyone who could get access to a PS4.

Nope.

 

[Lord of Tranz]

Umm, I think you are mistaken...it’s not like women were not allowed in motorsport before this. They always have been, and there are a number of women competing very successfully in various championships across the globe.

In no way shape or form are women actively excluded from motorsport. There are many reasons why there are not a large number of women in motorsports, but it’s definitely not because they are not allowed to participate, or are excluded from participating.

Your second question, why does it have to be a woman’s only thing, is the question begging an answer. There is no “mens only” motorsport, so why “womens only”?

Ahh, my motorsport history is very limited and I misunderstood the field completely in this case.

Apologies for that, I hadn't read replies before posting. (Was gaming, but have since and planned to readdress my comments but you prompted a swifter response too, thank you).

That said, as you mentioned at the end there, why indeed a seperate thing. The only way a female competitor can compete with males and equality to shine is to get stuck in and see, lol.

Seems there just isn't the need. Women should just push to enter, anywhere. If anyone is good enough or has that natural talent, they should get a shot, not just because they're female, or male of course, lol.

Media pap. My mistake.

 

[FoRiZon]

Apropos of nothing this subject is a fantastic way of weeding out the internet's most objectionable human beings.

I could wish I can like this more than once. Post of the year there.

 

[Northstar]

How 🤬 stupid do you think the average woman is? If any person is incapable of working Google, how the hell are they supposed to become a top level racing driver???

The average woman is probably very smart. The average preteen on the other hand is not, which is why role models exist and Twilight was popular. If little 12 year old Emily sees a whole series of female racers that have potential to get to the top level they have something tangible to aim for.

Furthermore, the criteria to get in is based on more than just raw pace.

Of course it is, they're not going to put a bunch of money behind someone if they have a horrible personality. It's the same reason they do similar things for GT Academy.

(is it me or does this sound like a pageant?)

Sounds like try-outs to me.

That’s just it...GT Acadmy was open to anyone who could get access to a PS4. This W-Series is open to anyone who has possession of a vagina. Do you see the fundamental difference between the two

So you're saying you can't compare one competition that has pre-determined barriers with another competition because it also has pre-determined barriers for entry?

 

[twitcher]

The average woman is probably very smart. The average preteen on the other hand is not, which is why role models exist and Twilight was popular. If little 12 year old Emily sees a whole series of female racers that have potential to get to the top level they have something tangible to aim for.

I don’t think anyone coming out of W-Series is going to have potential to make it to the top level, not unless they’re shoe horned in there. If a young girl had the potential to make it to the top level, they’d have been identified as such before they needed to revert to the W-Series for a seat. What 12 year old Emily will see is a series of second rate drivers.

Of course it is, they're not going to put a bunch of money behind someone if they have a horrible personality. It's the same reason they do similar things for GT Academy.


Sounds like try-outs to me.

Which is kind of a shame. Lots of drivers who weren’t exactly likeable made it to the top level based purely off speed. How likeable or marketable is KMag (suck my balls, have a Coke!) ? So instead of just fast, these girls have to be fast and likeable.

So you're saying you can't compare one competition that has pre-determined barriers with another competition because it also has pre-determined barriers for entry?

They both have pre-determined barriers, but the barriers aren’t even close to being equivalent. The difference being you can go buy a play station relatively easily, buying a vagina is a touch more difficult.

 

[Northstar]

I don’t think anyone coming out of W-Series is going to have potential to make it to the top level, not unless they’re shoe horned in there.

You're basing this on what exactly?

We haven't even gotten specifics on the series yet let alone who will drive in it so I really don't see how you can comment on the results of the drivers. Who knows, you very well could be right and it could amount to nothing, but at least they are actually trying something instead of sitting behind a screen pretending they know everything.

So instead of just fast, these girls have to be fast and likeable.

Such is the life of a spokesperson.

They both have pre-determined barriers, but the barriers aren’t even close to being equivalent. The difference being you can go buy a play station relatively easily, buying a vagina is a touch more difficult.

It doesn't matter how easily it is to buy a PS if you live in the wrong country though (for instance, your country was ineligible prior to 2014). Or is discrimination based on location ok in your book?

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

My take away from that is that Danica hasn’t noticably enhanced female participation at a very young level...seems the author of the article is still waiting for that wave to occur.

I do find it interesting that the daughter of one Brian Deegan needs factory assistance from Toyota. It’s not quite on the same scale, but it’s similar in nature to saying Mick Schumacher needs Ferrari support to get through junior formula. Deegan was a professional Motocross racer in the 90s and early 2000s (a bad one, and a cheat), who’s real rise to fame (and relative wealth) came from being one of the pioneers behind The Metal Militia and freestyle motocross.

So SHE needs assistance from Toyota, meanwhile the son of Joe the construction worker who lives on a fraction of the money as Brian Deegan, that kid doesn’t get any help from Toyota because he made the mistake of choosing to grow a penis while in the womb.

So one Brian Deegan isn't known for racing motocross/supercross/country cross or any dirt bike racing, he did race but wasn't that massive doing it. He is known for freestyle on dirt bikes. He raced Rally Cross later in life if that's what you mean but obviously not in the time period.

Two, Hailie is actually competitive thus far in what she's done and is keeping up with guys who have been doing this for years, while she is in her rookie year. I'm sure her dad could supply her with enough backing, but Toyota are doing it thus far like many drivers they have because of that talent shown. If she hadn't won a race in the current series and championships on the national level in karting, or raced against even Kevin Harvick and other seasoned driver while getting good results, they probably wouldn't back her. If she was down the points standings I could see your point.

However, so far she seems like a driver that is being turned into a genuine competitor and that backing will be important to help prove if she deserves it or not. Not because she is a woman or because you think her dad is Sir Warbucks.

Look Toyota want a USP and she has a USP so many great drivers don't get a shot. Money make's life easier Look at lando Norris great driver and his dad is worth £200million

Yeah but his dad is not what got him that ride.

 

[twitcher]

You're basing this on what exactly?

We haven't even gotten specifics on the series yet let alone who will drive in it so I really don't see how you can comment on the results of the drivers. Who knows, you very well could be right and it could amount to nothing, but at least they are actually trying something instead of sitting behind a screen pretending they know everything.



Such is the life of a spokesperson.



It doesn't matter how easily it is to buy a PS if you live in the wrong country though (for instance, your country was ineligible prior to 2014). Or is discrimination based on location ok in your book?

If you’re a private company named Nissan, who’s goal it is to sell cars in certain high volume countries, then I don’t have a problem with you making the competition available only in some countries. Furthermore, making it available “everywhere” would have been a logistical burden that they had no obligation to take on.

The FIA is not a private company trying to sell cars. The W-Series discriminating against men does not in any way lower the logistical burden of organizing the series.

So in this case, I’m ok with Nissan discriminating by region, not ok with the w-series discriminating by gender.


If there was a wealthy father who wanted to buy a seat in F1 for his daughter, although I’m against the concept, based on precedent, I’d have no objection. If a telecommunications company wants to back a female racing driver all the way to F1 because they think it’ll help them sell more phone plans, go for it. Hopefully one day McLaren or Redbull identify some 10 or 12 year old girl who is lighting up the karting tracks, and they back them all the way to F1 (through F4, F3, not the W-Series, F2, to F1). That’s what I’m waiting to see!

I know that in order for that to happen, the sheer volume of girls competing in karting from a young age needs to go up, but I just don’t see this w-series as being tbe means to get more young girls into karting. I take your point that seeing it on TV might encourage a young Emily to get into motorsport, I just think that if Emily is intelligent enough to be involved in motorsport, she’ll be smart enough to figure that if she wants to make it to F1, she needs to race against the boys; and if she finds herself in the w-series, it’s probably already finished when it comes to making it to F1.

Ultimately I hope it works to get more women involved in motorsport, I just don’t think it’s going to be an effective method. I guess the simplest way I can sum up my opinion is that I don’t think it’s the right move to seperate women from racing against men, in order to prepare them to race against men.

Also, I’m just hashing out my ideas and sharing opinions, I don’t think I know everything.

Edit: @LMSCorvetteGT2

So one Brian Deegan isn't known for racing motocross/supercross/country cross or any dirt bike racing, he did race but wasn't that massive doing it. He is known for freestyle on dirt bikes. He raced Rally Cross later in life if that's what you mean but obviously not in the time period.

Two Hailie is actually competitive thus far in what she's done and is keeping up with guys who have been doing this for years, while she is in her rookie year. I'm sure he dad could supply her with enough backing, but Toyota are doing it thus far like many drivers they have because of that talent shown. If she hadn't won a race in the current series and championships on the national level in karting, and has raced against even Kevin Harvick and did decent. If she was down the points standings and didn't have solid finishes against more experienced racers I could see your point.

However, so far she seems like a driver that is being turned into a genuine competitor and that backing will be important to help prove she deserves it or not. Not because she is a woman or because you think her dad is Sir Warbucks.



Yeah but his dad is not what got him that ride.

I didn’t say Brian was known for his MX racing, I said he did it (for a short period), wasn’t very good, and got caught cheating. I had the issue of MotoX Magazine that published pictures of him short-cutting a back section of the track at, iirc, Washagul. Would have been somewhere between ‘96 to ‘98. Also like I said, his claim to fame came after he stopped racing in AMA competition, being one of the founding members of the Metal Militia Freestyle MotoX team, who pioneered the dirt bike aspect of the action sports video wave that rose in the early 2000s. The rallying was just some fun stuff he did after his body was too broken to huck it off another kicker and risk landing on his head - the guy has recovered from some incredibly bad injuries over the years.

None of that has anything to do with his daughter Hailie’s nascar aspirations...it’s just that when I read the article and it mention Brian Deegan, it brought on a wave of flashbacks of thumbing through MX magazines as a kid

As far as Toyota backing her, like I said before, if they’re backing her because she’s fast and can win, then I fully support that.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Edit: @LMSCorvetteGT2

I didn’t say Brian was known for his MX racing, I said he did it (for a short period), wasn’t very good, and got caught cheating. I had the issue of MotoX Magazine that published pictures of him short-cutting a back section of the track at, iirc, Washagul. Would have been somewhere between ‘96 to ‘98. Also like I said, his claim to fame came after he stopped racing in AMA competition, being one of the founding members of the Metal Militia Freestyle MotoX team, who pioneered the dirt bike aspect of the action sports video wave that rose in the early 2000s. The rallying was just some fun stuff he did after his body was too broken to huck it off another kicker and risk landing on his head - the guy has recovered from some incredibly bad injuries over the years.

Yes but my point is who cares, he was a nobody rider. Surely isn't important to the accomplishments of his daughter.

None of that has anything to do with his daughter Hailie’s nascar aspirations...it’s just that when I read the article and it mention Brian Deegan, it brought on a wave of flashbacks of thumbing through MX magazines as a kid

As far as Toyota backing her, like I said before, if they’re backing her because she’s fast and can win, then I fully support that.

Which as I said was the point of correcting you and showing that it doesn't matter, because unlike her Dad so far she has talent. It could be said that what makes her different from others is a home life where that sort of thing was promoted. Thus a bigger likelihood of her being where she is today. However, the main point which you seem to accept is that she seems qualified so good for he and those wishing to back her.

 

[twitcher]

Yes but my point is who cares, he was a nobody rider. Surely isn't important to the accomplishments of his daughter.



Which as I said was the point of correcting you and showing that it doesn't matter, because unlike her Dad so far she has talent. It could be said that what makes her different from others is a home life where that sort of thing was promoted. Thus a bigger likelihood of her being where she is today. However, the main point which you seem to accept is that she seems qualified so good for he and those wishing to back her.

I never said anything Brian did had any significance on his daighter’s career. You didn’t correct me on anything because I wasn’t wrong about anything, and you didn’t need to show me it doesn’t matter, as I never said it did matter. Where are you getting this from?

Now, when you say, “...because unlike her dad, so far she has talent.” Are you saying he didn’t have talent as a racer, or as a rider? Because while he didn’t do anything significant on a racetrack, he’s an absolute legend in the dirt bike community for his skills and abilities on a dirtbike.

I do agree that her growing up in a household like the Deegan’s were it’s all motorsports all the time, greatly enhanced her likelyhood of both being interested in, and good at motorsports.


Edit:
That kind of reminds me of something I was thinking about earlier today.

In motorsport, there seems to be a really high percentage of 2nd and 3rd generation drivers. I know his occurs in almost all sports now, but percentage wise, motorsports seems higher than other sports.

Basically I was wondering, where are all the daughters and grand daughters of former top level racing drivers...or do they only have sons? Seriously though, Verstappen, Rosenberg, Prost, Pique x2, Schumacher, Hill, Senna-kinda, Magnussen, Sainz, half the NASCAR field, Andretti x2, Rahal, Fittipaldi x2 (hell even Ricky Collard, a BMW junior driver, took over his dad’s factory BMW drive in BTCC this year....cute, but really keepin’ it all in the motorsport family)...I know there’s lots more, can’t think of them all. It’s like John Force has been the only guy successful in helping get his daughters to high level competition. Is he the only one who tried? Are his daughters special compared to the daughters of other motorsports families?

I’m not at all implying there’s anything sinister in this, I just find it curious. Does Max’s sister race at all, or how about Julia Piquet, did she race at all? If yes, what haulted their careers? If no, why not?

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I never said anything Brian did had any significance on his daighter’s career. You didn’t correct me on anything because I wasn’t wrong about anything, and you didn’t need to show me it doesn’t matter, as I never said it did matter. Where are you getting this from?

Forgot no one ever corrects you. Yeah I did, bringing up his racing is insignificant to the point, that was what I was getting at.

Now, when you say, “...because unlike her dad, so far she has talent.” Are you saying he didn’t have talent as a racer, or as a rider? Because while he didn’t do anything significant on a racetrack, he’s an absolute legend in the dirt bike community for his skills and abilities on a dirtbike.

I do agree that her growing up in a household like the Deegan’s were it’s all motorsports all the time, greatly enhanced her likelyhood of both being interested in, and good at motorsports.

Well considering there is only one thing they're comparable in it should be pretty obvious. If there was an X-Games for race car stunts to compare against his Freestlye stuff, your question would actually have some gravity to it. Again I know what is profile is, like you I too watched the guy and many others it's what got me into riding.

That being said as a racer he doesn't have the pedigree his daughter currently has at the same age. Does this mean she'll translate into a full time Cup driver one day and fight for wins often, not at all but it does show she does have the talent so far to move up the ladder. It does show that she deserve the funding from a manufacture thus far, and also shows it has nothing to do with her being a girl. That was my other point.

 

[zzz_pt]

Am I the only one who thinks F1 is not exactly like NASCAR, Dakar or other motorsports where men and women compete together?

F1 is the toughest Motorsport in terms of physical impact throughout a race (probably on par with a 24h race in a LMP1) and I seriously doubt a woman could compete at the highest level of F1, against the top male drivers.

The amount of constant G forces the bodies of F1 drivers endure in a single weekend is not a joke.

From what I've read so far it looks to me like a lot of people think F1 is like playing GT Sport. It doesn't really matter the physicality of the thing, as long as you know how to use a steering wheel and a set of pedals, you're good to go.

On the representation issue of girls in lower classes. Is there a problem, really? Racing games are there for all to buy and play and we rarely see a women / girl playing, let alone playing it to be at the top of the FIA championships (in GTS). Same could be said for every other racing game / sim since racing games exist.

I have no problems with this new W F1 category tbh. It's probably better that way. I just think it will be of lower quality compared to current F1, not because it's a women's only motorsport, but because that's what happens in every other highly demanding sport (and motorsports are sports...drivers are athletes).

Football, basketball, tennis, swimming, cycling, etc, etc. Times, technique, speed, intensity are not comparable. I can appreciate the effort a top female athlete makes but I won't be a hypocrite and say I enjoy watching it as much as I enjoy watching the same sport practiced by men.

Some people want to pretend men and women are the same but that's simply false. In lower categories, those differences might not even be perceptible but the closer you get to the best of the best, top of the top, the more they will show.

A few years back, someone proposed curling shouldn't separate male and female teams. Until they studied how men and women played and performed and realized how women wouldn't win that often (if at all) if they would play agaisnt men (this in the Olympics). They reached the conclusion that the best male players in the world could anticipate 5 to 7 moves in advance and plan their stones according to those moves (from their team and the opponents team). The best female players couldn't plan ahead anywhere near those numbers. So, in the end, despite being a very gentle and smooth sport in terms of physical demands, so men and women could play it together, it's not possible because of perceptual differences of the game between men and women. (Of course these differences aren't relevant in amateur or lower categories but only on the top end of the sport).

I tried to find the article but couldn't. I've read it a long time ago.

 

[twitcher]

Forgot no one ever corrects you. Yeah I did, bringing up his racing is insignificant to the point, that was what I was getting at.

I myself specifically said it was insignificant to the point, not sure why you feel like you need to claim some sort of credit for pointing it out. But if you need it, you can have it. So whilst I said that seeing Brian Deegan’s name simply took me on a fun trip down memory lane that has nothing to do with his daughter’s racing career, full credit to @LMSCorvetteGT2 for pointing out the insignificance of Brian’s racing career.

Well considering there is only one thing they're comparable in it should be pretty obvious. If there was an X-Games for race car stunts to compare against his Freestlye stuff, your question would actually have some gravity to it. Again I know what is profile is, like you I too watched the guy and many others it's what got me into riding.

My question have gravity to it? Lighten up man. The question wasn’t meant to have gravity to it....it was a question!! Stop trying to read between the lines, I’m not an F1 journo, there’s nothing written between the lines here.

That being said as a racer he doesn't have the pedigree his daughter currently has at the same age. Does this mean she'll translate into a full time Cup driver one day and fight for wins often, not at all but it does show she does have the talent so far to move up the ladder. It does show that she deserve the funding from a manufacture thus far, and also shows it has nothing to do with her being a girl. That was my other point.

Which is why I initially said “if they’re funding her because she’s got talent, then good on them”, and then when you indicated that was in fact the case, I again said good good 👍 Toyota’s funding her because she’s good, I support that, what’s your point here?

 

[eran0004]

The caliber of competition in F3 will be higher than FW, so if a woman can compete in F3, she’s basically saying she’s better than everyone in FW. Like I’ve been saying, if you’re an F1 team boss, why would you look at a female from FW if there was a female competing in F3.

But the objective of FW isn’t to be the final stepping stone to F1. The objective is to provide an opportunity for driver development. To them it must be great that there are female drivers in F3, because it means that they can provide a FW opportunity for someone else who didn’t manage to obtain an F3 seat. Whether they next go to F3 or F1 is not that important, because the bigger the proportion of female drivers in F3, the bigger the chance that one gets picked for F1.

 

[twitcher]

But the objective of FW isn’t to be the final stepping stone to F1. The objective is to provide an opportunity for driver development. To them it must be great that there are female drivers in F3, because it means that they can provide a FW opportunity for someone else who didn’t manage to obtain an F3 seat. Whether they next go to F3 or F1 is not that important, because the bigger the proportion of female drivers in F3, the bigger the chance that one gets picked for F1.

I think you under estimate how ruthless F1 teams are when the select drivers. If there is a female competing in and doing well in F3, whilst a different group of females are competing in WS, the F1 teams won’t look at the WS drivers for a second. They’ll look straight past them to the female who is in F3, against tougher competition (national and regional kart and F4 champions).

 

[mustafur]

We will see in the long run, it will be a failure if it doesn't bring in more talented Females though.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I myself specifically said it was insignificant to the point, not sure why you feel like you need to claim some sort of credit for pointing it out. But if you need it, you can have it. So whilst I said that seeing Brian Deegan’s name simply took me on a fun trip down memory lane that has nothing to do with his daughter’s racing career, full credit to @LMSCorvetteGT2 for pointing out the insignificance of Brian’s racing career.

Never said his career was insignificant don't manipulate wording.

My question have gravity to it? Lighten up man. The question wasn’t meant to have gravity to it....it was a question!! Stop trying to read between the lines, I’m not an F1 journo, there’s nothing written between the lines here.

Ah yes, "lighten up", you full on inserted yourself into this debate no one came looking for you. Sorry if it's "not light enough" to your liking. You may not be an F1 journo but at times you try to carry the same gravitas as one. Especially when corrected or further questioned.

Which is why I initially said “if they’re funding her because she’s got talent, then good on them”, and then when you indicated that was in fact the case, I again said good good 👍 Toyota’s funding her because she’s good, I support that, what’s your point here?

Not before of course making a jab at her being a woman and purely only getting the ride because such and thus being corrected (though you'll claim you weren't). As you so aptly highlight by not understanding the initial point, though it was clearly laid out for you more than once. I'm curious why "contribute" to this discussion if you're quick to temper or how others debate you? I'm just reading it as you put it and countering what isn't correct.

 

[eran0004]

Am I the only one who thinks F1 is not exactly like NASCAR, Dakar or other motorsports where men and women compete together?

F1 is the toughest Motorsport in terms of physical impact throughout a race (probably on par with a 24h race in a LMP1) and I seriously doubt a woman could compete at the highest level of F1.

The amount of constant G forces the bodies of F1 drivers endure in a single weekend is not a joke.

Interesting. What research data do you base that conclusion on?

Because the USAF came to a different conclusion when they compared +G tolerance between men and women.

http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a177986.pdf

 

[05XR8]

Am I the only one who thinks F1 is not exactly like NASCAR, Dakar or other motorsports where men and women compete together?

F1 is the toughest Motorsport in terms of physical impact throughout a race (probably on par with a 24h race in a LMP1) and I seriously doubt a woman could compete at the highest level of F1.

The amount of constant G forces the bodies of F1 drivers endure in a single weekend is not a joke.

From what I've read so far it looks to me like a lot of people think F1 is like playing GT Sport. It doesn't really matter the physicality of the thing, as long as you know how to use a steering wheel and a set of pedals, you're good to go.

On the representation issue of girls in lower classes. Is there a problem, really? Racing games are there for all to buy and play and we rarely see a women / girl playing, let alone playing it to be at the top of the FIA championships (in GTS). Same could be said for every other racing game / sim since racing games exist.

I have no problems with this new W F1 category tbh. It's probably better that way. I just think it will be of lower quality compared to current F1, not because it's a women's only motorsport, but because that's what happens in every other highly demanding sport (and motorsports are sports...drivers are athletes).

Football, basketball, tennis, swimming, cycling, etc, etc. Times, technique, speed, intensity are not comparable. I can appreciate the effort a top female athlete makes but I won't be a hypocrite and say I enjoy watching it as much as I enjoy watching the same sport practiced by men.

Some people want to pretend men and women are the same but that's simply false. In lower categories, those differences might not even be perceptible but the closer you get to the best of the best, top of the top, the more they will show.

A few years back, someone proposed curling shouldn't separate male and female teams. Until they studied how men and women played and performed and realized how women wouldn't win that often (if at all) if they would play agaisnt men (this in the Olympics). They reached the conclusion that the best male players in the world could anticipate 5 to 7 moves in advance and plan their stones according to those moves (from their team and the opponents team). The best female players couldn't plan ahead anywhere near those numbers. So, in the end, despite being a very gentle and smooth sport in terms of physical demands, so men and women could play it together, it's not possible because of perceptual differences of the game between men and women. (Of course these differences aren't relevant in amateur or lower categories but only on the top end of the sport).

I tried to find the article but couldn't. I've read it a long time ago.

I mentioned drag racing.

Jacky Ickx comes to mind as having a daughter whose raced. Again, Nicole Lyons followed her father into drag racing.
We'll have to wait and see about Garth Tander's, Michael Caruso's, Fabian Coulthard's, Lee Holdsworth's and Craig Lowndes' daughters, as they're all under 10yo to newborns.