2019 W Series

[twitcher]

Never said his career was insignificant don't manipulate wording.

ok I’ll stand correct, you can take full credit for pointing out that something I myself pointed out was insignificant to the convo, bravo. Again man, I’m not trying to manipulate your words, relax.

Ah yes, "lighten up", you full on inserted yourself into this debate no one came looking for you. Sorry if it's "not light enough" to your liking. You may not be an F1 journo but at times you try to carry the same gravitas as one. Especially when corrected or further questioned.

I asked you a very simple question for clarification, and you think the question “lacked gravity”. Honestly I don’t know what to say to that, “lighten up” was the first thing that sprung to mind.

No one came looking for me? What does that even mean???

Thanks for telling me how I try to carry myself. You must be trying insanely hard to read way too deep into what I write. I spitball off the top of my head, I don’t try to carry any gravitas at all. If you read my posts with gravitas, that’s on you...but thanks, I guess.

Not before of course making a jab at her being a woman and purely only getting the ride because such and thus being corrected (though you'll claim you weren't). As you so aptly highlight by not understanding the initial point, though it was clearly laid out for you more than once. I'm curious why "contribute" to this discussion if you're quick to temper or how others debate you? I'm just reading it as you put it and countering what isn't correct.

I never took a jab at her being a woman. You clearly are trying to read too much into what I said. Before you injected yourself into this convo, I already clearly stated that if Toyota was supporting her because of merit, then I support that.

Quick to temper? Sorry Dr Phil, you’ll have to inform me as to who’s angry right now...cause it ain’t me. I’m confused at what exactly you’re getting at with all this, but I’m far from angry

 

[Slapped]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamie_Chadwick is one to watch.

She's already had some considerable success, and it's quite apparent that she is in no need at all of any special women's series.

 

[twitcher]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamie_Chadwick is one to watch.

She's already had some considerable success, and it's quite apparent that she is in no need at all of any special women's series.

It may be apparent to you that she doesn’t need a female only series, but she seems rather in favour of it.


In her defence though, who wouldn’t be in favour of more opportunities that allow one to continue living one’s dream.

 

[Slapped]

It may be apparent to you that she doesn’t need a female only series, but she seems rather in favour of it.

In her defence though, who wouldn’t be in favour of more opportunities that allow one to continue living one’s dream.

Well I'm of a split opinion on this, and it goes like this.

Pro - Anything that brings more women into motorsport is very good thing indeed.

Con - To make that happen a women's only series shouldn't have to be needed in the first place.

 

[RHODRIEWILLIAMS]

The series is open to any woman to APPLY to, but a commitee of mostly men will pick the 20 lucky drivers. Their goal is to get a young female in line for F1, so while the likes of Katherine Legge, or Kristina Nielsen, or Ashley Freyberg can apply all they want, the committee won’t pick them to race.


Just as an aside, I’m actually really curious to see the ethnic diversity of the first W-Series grid. I’m curious to see if a commitee who’s main motivation is diversity will be tempted to pick drivers based on the diversity of their background, as well as how capable they are behind the wheel.


Money makes life easier, agreed. But is she getting money from Toyota because she is fast, or because she is a woman? Norris comes from a wealthy background, but he also is the youngest ever world karting champion, taking that record away from Lewis Hamilton. McLaren didn’t sign Norris when he was 10 because he was a boy, they signed him because he was fast.

I don’t follow American junior oval racing at all. That article is the first I’ve heard of Deegan since I last heard about her father a few years back. So if I’m wrong in this, and she is being supported by Toyota because she is fast, and has been a champion in nearly every previous series she’s run, then good on her, and good on Toyota for finding a young talent. If, however, Toyota are supporting her primarily because she is a girl, that I don’t support.

Yeah but that's like saying is Sergio Perez getting money because he's fast It irrelevant every sponsor is here for a reason. I doubt an F1 team will take a Formula W champion purely on talent but It may help a young girl raise here profile to get here to GP3/F2. I love Lando Norris he's a great driver but his family have paid for 90% of his racing do you really think He would have had a get out clause from a McLaren contract If they were funding him like they did with Hamilton ?

 

[eran0004]

I think you under estimate how ruthless F1 teams are when the select drivers. If there is a female competing in and doing well in F3, whilst a different group of females are competing in WS, the F1 teams won’t look at the WS drivers for a second. They’ll look straight past them to the female who is in F3, against tougher competition (national and regional kart and F4 champions).

I don’t think you read my reply.

 

[Liquid]

I think one of Schumacher's mechanics is of African descent.

If you're referring to Rory Byrne, designer of all of Schumacher's championship winning cars, then you're right in that he's African but he's a white South African.

Which counts as a minority, right?

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

ok I’ll stand correct, you can take full credit for pointing out that something I myself pointed out was insignificant to the convo, bravo. Again man, I’m not trying to manipulate your words, relax.

I'm quite relaxed as are others willing to take the time and debate you. There is nothing really emotional about this or other racing debates I find myself in, nor should there.

I asked you a very simple question for clarification, and you think the question “lacked gravity”. Honestly I don’t know what to say to that, “lighten up” was the first thing that sprung to mind.

Because I leveled a statement at you that was devoid of tone, and basically made a blunt point of stressing what I thought was a poor argument...K

No one came looking for me? What does that even mean???

As in you're acting as if people (myself being one of them) is overly sensitive or dynamic in this conversation when in reality we're just arguing your points as they appear. You tell us to lighten up, and I simply ask why? There is nothing to lighten up about because we're not stressed or angered to begin with. So is it because we are willing to continually debate you on this subject? Because you don't like to entertain said continual debate? I'm confused as to why people who are showing no ill will should "lighten up", when you were the one that decided to take part in the debate of your own accord.

Thanks for telling me how I try to carry myself. You must be trying insanely hard to read way too deep into what I write. I spitball off the top of my head, I don’t try to carry any gravitas at all. If you read my posts with gravitas, that’s on you...but thanks, I guess.

Not at all. No I'm not. Glad you say it "straight from the dome." I would never read your posts as such. There is a difference between someone wanting to seem knowledgeable and resourceful and actually be such.

I never took a jab at her being a woman. You clearly are trying to read too much into what I said. Before you injected yourself into this convo, I already clearly stated that if Toyota was supporting her because of merit, then I support that.

This is what you said:

So SHE needs assistance from Toyota, meanwhile the son of Joe the construction worker who lives on a fraction of the money as Brian Deegan, that kid doesn’t get any help from Toyota because he made the mistake of choosing to grow a penis while in the womb.

You're obviously claiming -before I corrected you- that she needed a handout and said handout came because of her gender. I guess anyone reading that and coming to the thought I did is "Reading into it"? Unless there is some enigmatic way of reading that, but that can't be.

Quick to temper? Sorry Dr Phil, you’ll have to inform me as to who’s angry right now...cause it ain’t me. I’m confused at what exactly you’re getting at with all this, but I’m far from angry

Okay I'm glad you've used an emoji to indicate that, I would be confused if you hadn't just simply stated a resounding "no".

 

[MatskiMonk]

Going to be interested in the selection process for this though.

Bikini contest and a bake-off. Amirite??

This is more an exercise in political correctness than actual racing

This is where I've got to keep disagreeing. If something was just an exercise in being PC, "they" would simply force change or impose on the existing order, instead of bringing new opportunities to the table. W-Series is simply bringing new opportunities and trying to expand horizons, it's not trying to shoe-horn women into anything we already have. If it helps promote motorsport to a wider audience or get more people involved it's not a bad thing... And if the racing itself is rubbish, then it'll be fairly well qualified as an open-wheel series.

 

[Liquid]

And if the racing itself is rubbish, then it'll be fairly well qualified as an open-wheel series.

Hear, hear. The racing couldn't possibly be more boring than a lot of what is on offer already.

 

[baldgye]

Hear, hear. The racing couldn't possibly be more boring than a lot of what is on offer already.

To be fair, the junior single make series are usually some of the more exciting to watch

 

[05XR8]

If you're referring to Rory Byrne, designer of all of Schumacher's championship winning cars, then you're right in that he's African but he's a white South African.

Which counts as a minority, right?

Mechanic. Not designer.

The guy two heads above Schumacher, in the middle.

 

[TheCracker]

Mechanic. Not designer.

The guy two heads above Schumacher, in the middle.

That's Balbir Singh, Schumacher's Indian physio and general well-being 'guru'.

 

[Northstar]

The FIA is not a private company trying to sell cars. The W-Series discriminating against men does not in any way lower the logistical burden of organizing the series.

The series isn't owned by the FIA though, it's a separate entity owned by Catherine Bond Muir. In fact I haven't even seen what sanctioning body they're using so the FIA may not even be directly involved.

 

[Famine]

The amount of women in motorsports doesn't needs to change even if we'd like it to, and frankly, whatever is stopping them doesn't necessarily need to change either. Like I said, what if they're just not as interested?

Then the question becomes "Why are women not interested?".

Unless you're going to suggest that there's some structural or biochemical function of a female brain that prevents them from finding driving quickly enjoyable (which I'd hope you wouldn't), you'd need an explanation as to why men race cars but women don't.

And the fact is that they do. They're few and far between, but they do. You've seen the names sprinkled through this thread - we know who they are because they're the exception. So now you'd need to answer the question "Why are women interested at a lower rate than men?".


One possible explanation is a negative feedback loop. There's so few women in racing because there's so few women in racing; girls growing up don't see any prominent female racing drivers, so they - and the people who should help them find the life path that works for them - don't regard racing driving as a serious career path, and those that do are discouraged or not taken seriously. That prevents them from getting onto the motorsport ladder as quickly as the boys do. Those that can make it into the paddock are looked on as oddities, tokens, or political correctness gone mad, and are commonly too old for teams to want to help develop and don't have the junior formula experience, and won't have been scouted since they were five by sponsors and F1 team managers. This results in their careers stagnating - Coulthard suggests F3 is the glass ceiling - and that ends up with a lack of prominent female racing drivers. The next generation of girls growing up don't see any prominent female racing drivers, and so we begin all over again.

As @Furinkazen notes:

They want to find a F1-worthy driver. Fair enough, but please name 20 notable, highly talented currently active female racing drivers.

This may be the problem. Naming 20 active female racing drivers shouldn't be that hard, but for most people - and most girls - it's probably hard to name five.

If that's the case, W Series would seem like an interesting solution. You don't need sponsorship to get into it, you just apply. If you pass the selection criteria - real track driving, simulator work, fitness, engineering tests, and I'd presume a PR test like GT Academy - you get one of 20 race seats, for free. This puts you onto FIA Grade 1/2 circuits, giving you wings and slicks experience on European race tracks (and, like it or not, Europe is the heartland of world motorsport). I'd also assume - given that there's an F1 journalist, F1 PR, F1 driver and broadcaster, and F1 team manager - it gets you exposure. If W Series doesn't have some kind of TV/streaming deal lined up, I'll eat a live raccoon. They'll market the tits off it - hell the series has only just been revealed and we're nearly 200 posts deep in it.

Rather than being one of 25 women who turned up and paid £50 to drive around Teesside Karting in a Caterham while no-one watches and ITV covers it three weeks later like it's Big Brother and you're a hairdresser trying to race a car like a good little girl, you're one of 20 women who's been assessed as potentially good enough for a full-time F3 drive, racing at major European venues with live broadcast races.

That's likely to increase your own marketability, and bring your name to the mind of some race teams and sponsors. Even if it's just staying at the same level, at worst it's likely to prolong the racing careers of a few of the drivers - and the $500k winning prize pot will buy you a GT3 drive for a couple of years on its own. At best it might uncover a latent talent. In either case, it brings another Patrick, Chadwick, Schmitz, Taittinger, de Villota, Frey, Ihara, Wolff, Taylor, or even Mouton to motorsport for girls to look up to. Okay, Danica Patrick may not have been great, but she was a prominent female racing driver and probably moved a needle in bringing more female spectators and possibly participants to motorsport.

Boys can look at any F1 grid, or any GP2 grid, or any GP3 grid, or any LMP1 grid, or any LMP2 grid, or any LMP3 grid, or any GTE grid, or any Super GT grid (I can keep going) and see endless numbers people to look up to and think that in ten years they can be them. Who do girls have? As I remarked earlier, over 200 drivers have made their F1 debuts since the last time a woman saw the start lights. Since then, male F1 drivers have completed three-quarters of a million race laps and female ones have completed none. There's been over 300 official sessions since the last woman even took part in one, and there were more than 1,500 between her and the one before her. Who can girls look to?


Some women are objecting to this as it's "segregation" (it's not; women are not banned from other motorsports and only permitted in to this one). Some men are objecting to it as "where's the man's series" (dude... all of them) and it's affirmative action (it's not; affirmative action would be a requirement for ALL series to have a 49.2% female driver representation) and "PC gone mad".

It's neither. It's a marketing exercise that says "Look at these 20 women racing fast cars two steps down from F1", to attract sponsors and team principals to these drivers, and young girls to become part of the next 20. And there's got to be some serious sponsors already - W Series will rent around a dozen major circuits, will buy 20+ F3 cars, will need to run 20+ F3 cars (because crashes), and it's giving $1.5m to the participants... who are not paying a cent to take part.

It won't affect any existing race series and it won't affect any existing female race drivers who don't take part or any existing male racing drivers. It may affect how many girls look at racing - and STEM in general - as a viable career path.

And if even one girl makes it through to F1 on merit and saves us from having to watch Lance Stroll bimble round in uselessth, or Kevin Magnussen acting like it's GTA Online, ****ing great.

 

[Dotini]

Then the question becomes "Why are women not interested?".

My mother loaned me the money to buy my first racing car. She couldn't see the point in racing, saying it was "men running in circles". But she did allow it was better than riding a motorcycle, which I also wanted to do, but had to forsake if I wanted to race.

 

[Famine]

My mother loaned me the money to buy my first racing car. She couldn't see the point in racing, saying it was "men running in circles". But she did allow it was better than riding a motorcycle, which I also wanted to do, but had to forsake if I wanted to race.

 

[Dotini]

The suggestion is that women are more practical than men, seeing racing as a non-productive and essentially frivolous activity.

 

[Famine]

The suggestion is that women are more practical than men, seeing racing as a non-productive and essentially frivolous activity.

Only if you think your mum is women. Your post tells us your mum didn't like racing cars less than she didn't like motorbikes, and I'm not sure why anyone should care or why it's in this thread. So to repeat:

My wife's experience is also in this thread. Right here, in fact, except she's not a hairdresser:

Formula Woman was a one-make road car racing series from 2004-2006, in the UK. It initially used Mazda RX-8s, but Mazda withdrew its support after one season and the series used Caterhams instead. A GTPlanet member raced in Formula Woman...

Rather than being one of 25 women who turned up and paid £50 to drive around Teesside Karting in a Caterham while no-one watches and ITV covers it three weeks later like it's Big Brother and you're a hairdresser trying to race a car like a good little girl

I guess that means woman are no different from men and see racing as a productive and enjoyable activity.

Oh no, wait, it doesn't, because my wife is no more all women than your mum is.

 

[TheCracker]

The suggestion is that women are more practical than men, seeing racing as a non-productive and essentially frivolous activity.

I guess many women feel the same way about most sports, not just motorsport. Just as most men feel the same way about watching 'Love Island'.

 

[RHODRIEWILLIAMS]

Lance Stroll has won an F3 title can't take that away from him. I rekon he will be competitive with Perez next season. Is he as good as Felix Rosenquist no but the best guys don't always find there way to F1 .

 

[zzz_pt]

Interesting. What research data do you base that conclusion on?

Because the USAF came to a different conclusion when they compared +G tolerance between men and women.

http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a177986.pdf

View attachment 772415

I didn't say women, in general, have less tolerance to G forces though.

That's the same as saying women can run a 110m hurdles race with men because they can jump and run too.

It's not about the G forces per se, that's only one of the many factors. Also, the study you mention focus on 1) tolerance to G forces in a passive state and not while racing an F1 car and 2) on regular people not top athletes. It doesn't mention the methodology either. F1 drivers are all but passive subjects to G forces and are subject to these forces for 90min, continuously. It's not a taking off, making some loops in the sky and landing situation, while seated on a seat without doing nothing.

That seems the equivalent of saying women and men can run a 40km marathon together because there's no significant difference between them. Sure, a fraction of women will run faster than most men in the world, but when you put them in direct competition with the fastest of the fastest male runners, they don't stand a chance.

Women can (and have) drive F1 cars under the current model and regulations. But, they won't be able to compete for wins IMO, even if the cars would be the same for everyone. I'd be happy to be proven wrong.

I don't have a specific study at hand. Just the reality of every other highly demanding sport and a basic knowledge of biological differences between both sexes.

I might be wrong. Maybe I shouldn't differentiate between F1 and other motorsports like Dakar, NASCAR and Dragracing. But I honestly think they're not comparable. F1 is the peak of motorsports for some reason (highly technologically developed cars that make them the fastest around any non oval track and which demand the highest physical preparation and athleticism). It's not the hability to drive an F1 car but drive it to the limit.


@Famine

I suspect we don't see as many women in F1 because it's often a highly dangerous activity (now a lot safer than in the past). And girls and women tend to avoid highy risk activities, both as a profession and as hobbies. Especially after having children in case of women. But anyone here probably has that experience from their childhood. You don't even need to look to F1. I rarely saw a girl friend of mine try to climb to the rooftop of our school to get a football or climb a tall tree just for the fun of it. Almost always boys and, of course, always boys getting their noses and fingers and feet broken. Of course there will always be girls and women who do these things, but they will always be less in number.

I see no problem with girls and women being more cautious. Making it a problem is something I don't particularly like though.

 

[twitcher]

I'm quite relaxed as are others willing to take the time and debate you. There is nothing really emotional about this or other racing debates I find myself in, nor should there.

what exactly are you debating? You haven’t had anything to add to the convo, you just seem extremely hung up on the fact I mentioned Brian Deegan.

As in you're acting as if people (myself being one of them) is overly sensitive or dynamic in this conversation when in reality we're just arguing your points as they appear. You tell us to lighten up, and I simply ask why? There is nothing to lighten up about because we're not stressed or angered to begin with. So is it because we are willing to continually debate you on this subject? Because you don't like to entertain said continual debate? I'm confused as to why people who are showing no ill will should "lighten up", when you were the one that decided to take part in the debate of your own accord.

So you’re upset I made a comment about hailie, upset I mentioned Brian’s racing career, and feel you need to “correct” me on this, all while trying to say I’m getting upset...but I’m the overly sensitive one here. Okay then

I’m good with debate, but you’re not debating anything. All you’re doing is repeating that you corrected me on something that wasn’t meant to be a right/wrong statement. Furthermore, I corrected myself before you entered the convo.

Not at all. No I'm not. Glad you say it "straight from the dome." I would never read your posts as such. There is a difference between someone wanting to seem knowledgeable and resourceful and actually be such.

You make no sense. You claim I try to write with gravitas...that claim can only come from your end, it’s how you read my posts. And now you say, “I don’t read your posts like that.” So either they try to have gravitas, or they don’t...which is it Mr candle burner?


In regards to my “jab” at her being female.

I said

My take away from that is that Danica hasn’t noticably enhanced female participation at a very young level...seems the author of the article is still waiting for that wave to occur.


I do find it interesting that the daughter of one Brian Deegan needs factory assistance from Toyota. It’s not quite on the same scale, but it’s similar in nature to saying Mick Schumacher needs Ferrari support to get through junior formula. Deegan was a professional Motocross racer in the 90s and early 2000s (a bad one, and a cheat), who’s real rise to fame (and relative wealth) came from being one of the pioneers behind The Metal Militia and freestyle motocross.


So SHE needs assistance from Toyota, meanwhile the son of Joe the construction worker who lives on a fraction of the money as Brian Deegan, that kid doesn’t get any help from Toyota because he made the mistake of choosing to grow a penis while in the womb.

I suppose that’s what you take as the jab at her for being a woman. It wasn’t meant as such, if anything it was a jab at Toyota for supporting her because she was a woman.


However, before you even started posting to “correct me”, I said this:

I don’t follow American junior oval racing at all. That article is the first I’ve heard of Deegan since I last heard about her father a few years back. So if I’m wrong in this, and she is being supported by Toyota because she is fast, and has been a champion in nearly every previous series she’s run, then good on her, and good on Toyota for finding a young talent. If, however, Toyota are supporting her primarily because she is a girl, that I don’t support.

So, I made my initial comment, then clarified that it was just a guess at the situation, but that if Toyota’s backing was because of talent, then I support it.


Then half a page or so later, you come along and need to “correct me” about something I already corrected myself.



Furthermore, when i say “Deegan was a professional Motocross racer in the 90s and early 2000s (a bad one, and a cheat), who’s real rise to fame (and relative wealth) came from being one of the pioneers behind The Metal Militia and freestyle motocross.” I’m not saying that to slander the name or anything, I mentioned it to indicate that she doesn’t come from a family completely new to motorsports.

You’ve now spent 2 pages “debating” me over what was nothing more than a throw away comment. Instead of taking it an an insult against her or whatever, you could have just asked for clarification (you know, like I did when my “question lacked gravity”.)

I’ve agreed that Deegan’s racing career has no impact on her career, I’ve said I support Toyota backing her becaus talent (again, something I mentioned before you got involved in the convo)....what more else can I say to appease you? Or do you want to continue to try to psycho analyze me further?

 

[adb]

What if, just if, we assume girls don't want to race? I'm pretty sure rich people also have daughters, so the funds would be a non-issue, why aren't they racing? By now there should be a talented, well-funded girl, driving a good kart for a good team, surprising people on track, right?

 

[Famine]

What if, just if, we assume girls don't want to race?

We'd be wrong - but that would still beg the question of why not.

By now there should be a talented, well-funded girl, driving a good kart for a good team, surprising people on track, right?

Well, Jamie Chadwick won an F3 race earlier this year, and won British GT in 2015. Flick Haigh won British GT in 2018. Susie Wolff and Maria de Villota both tested F1 cars in 2014 and 2012 respectively, Wolff also drove DTM, as did Rahel Frey. Before DTM, Frey drove the LMGT1 Ford GT in the 2010 Le Mans 24 Hours along with Natacha Gachnang and Cyndie Allemann - and in DTM she replaced Katherine Legge who went to Indycar, where you'll currently find Pippa Mann. Simona de Silvestro also drove Indycar (and Formula E, like Legge, and both have driven F1s in test sessions), but now drives what used to be V8 Supercars in Australia...

... I mean, they're out there.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

what exactly are you debating? You haven’t had anything to add to the convo, you just seem extremely hung up on the fact I mentioned Brian Deegan.

Your clear bias on this subject.

So you’re upset I made a comment about hailie, upset I mentioned Brian’s racing career, and feel you need to “correct” me on this, all while trying to say I’m getting upset...but I’m the overly sensitive one here. Okay then

Again no one is upset about anything. You made a comment you claim is perfectly justifiable to make because of a previous comment that you can deflect to and say "well I didn't really mean it just in case I was wrong". Which you were, you clearly didn't know her accomplishments so you were corrected. Had you just taken your default and not pushed the topic to the point of what you seem to be suggesting about the majority if not all female race candidates no debate would have been had.

I’m good with debate, but you’re not debating anything. All you’re doing is repeating that you corrected me on something that wasn’t meant to be a right/wrong statement. Furthermore, I corrected myself before you entered the convo.

Again you stating something as a safe guard because you didn't know doesn't mean you "corrected yourself". All it shows it that on the off chance you're wrong that any comments you make like the one you did, you can easily deflect back to your original comment and say "but see I said this thus clearly I don't mean this". Problem is so what if she didn't show skill right away? And still got support, because Toyota thought she had the potential? So what if a middle class kid doesn't get the backing instead of her?

You've essentially taken dislike toward pay drivers and put it toward a driver being picked because they're a girl and because they have finances...

You make no sense. You claim I try to write with gravitas...that claim can only come from your end, it’s how you read my posts. And now you say, “I don’t read your posts like that.” So either they try to have gravitas, or they don’t...which is it Mr candle burner?

I find it interesting you have to use personal slights in many of your posts rather. What I said is that when you debate many decisive topics in this sub forum you enter and post with a very opinionated view of someone who has studied the topic. However, as the debate gets going you then quickly get to a point where you deflect to a state of ignorance and simply "I'm just stating my view from the hip". That's what I'm saying.

In regards to my “jab” at her being female.

I said



I suppose that’s what you take as the jab at her for being a woman. It wasn’t meant as such, if anything it was a jab at Toyota for supporting her because she was a woman.

To that so what? How is that any different from other efforts of support that may not be fully talent based? I agree if they want a woman to support they should go for someone with talent, but considering the financials of racing they could also back someone who has money and less than optimal talent.

Furthermore, when i say “Deegan was a professional Motocross racer in the 90s and early 2000s (a bad one, and a cheat), who’s real rise to fame (and relative wealth) came from being one of the pioneers behind The Metal Militia and freestyle motocross.” I’m not saying that to slander the name or anything, I mentioned it to indicate that she doesn’t come from a family completely new to motorsports.

You’ve now spent 2 pages “debating” me over what was nothing more than a throw away comment. Instead of taking it an an insult against her or whatever, you could have just asked for clarification (you know, like I did when my “question lacked gravity”.)

How did I see it as an insult against her? I simply didn't understand the point of bringing up info that had nothing to do with the subject.

I’ve agreed that Deegan’s racing career has no impact on her career, I’ve said I support Toyota backing her becaus talent (again, something I mentioned before you got involved in the convo)....what more else can I say to appease you? Or do you want to continue to try to psycho analyze me further?

I'm not asking you to appease me, it's a debate that simple, no one is keeping score or trying to win anything. I'm sure this wont be the last Motorsports debate I find myself in with you. And no one is psycho analyzing you. You made comments I disagreed and I asked why, you claimed I am reading too far into them and thus we find are selves here.

If this is the circle we're going to go in then let's move on or debate the issue rather than each other.

Lance Stroll has won an F3 title can't take that away from him. I rekon he will be competitive with Perez next season. Is he as good as Felix Rosenquist no but the best guys don't always find there way to F1 .

So then Stroll is on level with Ocon? Because when I see competitive I see that meaning as someone who can fight on par with their team mate. Which Ocon did regularly, and would indicate he is easily better than Roseqvist. Rosenqvist claim to fame is winning several notable races, over his four year stint in F3.

Point is I think when people knock certain drivers who they find annoying, the fact remains they have the credentials (for the most part) as you stated to be there, despite being financially safe or supported by pure talent. I think a female driver will need that same backing to be more or less accepted across the board. This series will give them one of these I believe.

 

[TheCracker]

What if, just if, we assume girls don't want to race? I'm pretty sure rich people also have daughters, so the funds would be a non-issue, why aren't they racing? By now there should be a talented, well-funded girl, driving a good kart for a good team, surprising people on track, right?

There are now and has been top female karters in the past - Susanna Raganelli, Lotta Helberg, Max Verstappen's mother Sophie Kumpen and more recently, Laura Tillet, Abigail Gerry or Tiffany Hamilton. They just never really got the chance or are still awaiting the chance to take things further.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

We'd be wrong - but that would still beg the question of why not.

Well, Jamie Chadwick won an F3 race earlier this year, and won British GT in 2015. Flick Haigh won British GT in 2018. Susie Wolff and Maria de Villota both tested F1 cars in 2014 and 2012 respectively, Wolff also drove DTM, as did Rahel Frey. Before DTM, Frey drove the LMGT1 Ford GT in the 2010 Le Mans 24 Hours along with Natacha Gachnang and Cyndie Allemann - and in DTM she replaced Katherine Legge who went to Indycar, where you'll currently find Pippa Mann. Simona de Silvestro also drove Indycar (and Formula E, like Legge, and both have driven F1s in test sessions), but now drives what used to be V8 Supercars in Australia...

... I mean, they're out there.

Legge currently runs in IMSA for MSR and has won races in the GTD class and is currently in a very close battle to win the GTD championship. There is also Christina Nielsen who has won two GTD championships and the first woman to win in a major American Sports Car championship. So more to what you're saying they're out there.

 

[BallPtPenTheif]

What if, just if, we assume girls don't want to race? I'm pretty sure rich people also have daughters, so the funds would be a non-issue, why aren't they racing? By now there should be a talented, well-funded girl, driving a good kart for a good team, surprising people on track, right?

I'd imagine they aren't racing due to the lack of visibility of women drivers. This event is an effort to change that perception, even if it's only an incrememntal change. When female athletic teams do well in the Olympics, immediately enrollments into those sports increase in those respective countries. Visibility leads to idealization, which leads to interest, action, and follow through.

The bigger goal though is to grow and nurture an interest in motorsports among more women in general. Any industry that doesn't work to grow it's audience is merely dead in the water. This event serves those two goals.

 

[RHODRIEWILLIAMS]

So then Stroll is on level with Ocon? Because when I see competitive I see that meaning as someone who can fight on par with their team mate. Which Ocon did regularly, and would indicate he is easily better than Roseqvist. Rosenqvist claim to fame is winning several notable races, over his four year stint in F3.

Well next year we will find out Ocon hasn't dominated Perez in the way Button did has he? On Rosequist he did win an F3 championship which included Charles Leclarc , Giovanazzi ,Stroll & Russell so don't think there is any certainty Ocon is on the top of that list