2024 US Presidential Election Thread
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Racer294
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Wow! That's one hell of an assumption you must have really put some thought into that! I'm sure all those young people that had heart attacks after getting the vaccine that they didn't need .I'm sure they will trace that back to the group of your people that forced them to get it.You're exposing more of your country's flaws & evidence of why it needs new leadership if you think Jan 6th. constitutes mostly peaceful. Politicians aren't barricaded or evacuated under "mostly peaceful" protests....
That's funny because measles can be traced back to your group. Ya know, the one who is anti-vaccine.
Measles outbreak 2024, why measles is back in the US, and FDA approved OTC birth control pills
The AMA Update covers a range of health care topics affecting the lives of physicians and patients. Learn more about the measles outbreak of 2024.www.ama-assn.org
Danoff
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I got that it was sarcastic. Apparently you didn't. See, my response required yours to be sarcastic. I did not think you were actually feeling loved. If I did, my response would make no sense.
Edit:
Wait, omg, it's worse. You're claiming your medicated comment was sarcastic.
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Racer294
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Yeah you missed the mark on that one. I didn't see any sarcasm in your comment. Although I'd like to stay here all day arguing with you idiots I'm going to go ahead and leave. I got to pay for a bunch of illegal aliens and and student loans.
I got that it was sarcastic. Apparently you didn't. See, my response required yours to be sarcastic. I did not think you were actually feeling loved. If I did, my response would make no sense.
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- TexRex72
Correlation does not imply causation.
Of course the correlation that you asserted as causation, that diseases exist in a country as a result of open borders, is itself founded upon the falsehood that the border is open. An open border necessitates a total lack of restrictions and a total lack of enforcement of those restrictions.
"Illegal immigration" is a red herring. It's illegal because government prohibits it. That's it. Government prohibits it because nativist parasites want to keep people from other countries out.
Cries like a little bitch about a lack of civility despite having started discussion with derogatory remarks and continuing to sling them. Very Trumpy.
Joey D
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You cite measles as coming in through the Southern border. So far this year, the US has had 159 cases of measles, with a majority being in Illinois:
Measles Cases and Outbreaks
Find the latest numbers of confirmed measles cases in the U.S. CDC updates this page weekly.
www.cdc.gov
However, if you look at historical data, two of the biggest jumps in measles cases occurred while Trump was president. So, was he letting in vaccinated migrants or what? In fact, 2019 saw the biggest jump in cases since 1992.
But really, if you look at countries where measle outbreaks happen, you don't see any Latin American countries:
The biggest reason for the uptick in measles in the US is not from migrants but people who traveled abroad and brought the disease back with them. Then, due to a lower vaccine acceptance, more people are getting the disease since herd immunity isn't as good.
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Careful. Trumpers don't like facts and will leave the discussion entirely when presented with them. And leave insults and false claims in their wake.
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Add to it that they are being victimized by antifa and leftists who are too open minded...
dylansan
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I don't believe Biden's support for Israel has waned in any respect but words.
Not least because, just last week, the admin denied Netanyahu's claim that the US had withheld weapons, and Blinken "repeatedly underscored the Biden administration's commitment to Israel's defense."
"There has been no change in our posture" -Blinken
Not exactly pressure on Israel.
Biden administration strongly denies Netanyahu's claim US is blocking arms shipments amid war with Hamas
"We genuinely do not know what he's talking about," the White House said.
The US has also repeatedly refused to condition aid on Israel's avoidance of war crimes.
I don't see any reason to take any criticism of Israel or Netanyahu as anything but a cynical ploy to appease critics of the war. Unless and until he actually imposes any consequences, including withholdinh military aid, on Israel for any of its numerous crimes, I will take claims that Biden has changed his stance with a grain of salt.
The utilitarian thing refers not to your voting, only to your position that a success in Ukraine is more important than stopping the killing in Gaza. If I had the choice to either send weapons to both Israel and Ukraine, or neither, I would choose neither. My assumption is that you would choose the former. To me that is the equivalent of flipping the lever in the trolley problem, which is usually described as the utilitarian choice. It's not that utilitarians don't care about lives, just that they will sometimes choose to take one life in order to save others. e.g. sending a missile to kill someone in Gaza to prevent Russian missiles from destabilizing the world and killing many more. This sounds like a scathing criticism but it's not. I get why people make choices like that. I just personally don't agree with it.
And again, I could be wrong about your opinion.
McLaren
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But, they did go ugly & violence was caused. They were barricaded because the crowd forced their way in whether assaulting officers or breaking down windows, & then when the crowd made their way to the chamber, US agents told them to stop and get back. The infamous woman in question ignored his order & was unfortunately killed for continuing to make her way towards the politicians. One of the other, more prominent figures was a man wearing paramilitary gear, then stole police zip-ties and carried them into the chamber.
That's not really my definition of mostly peaceful, my guy.
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Danoff
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I guess your assumption of this is based on me voting for Biden - which is why I was saying it's about how I'm voting.
There are a few things that you're conflating in this. One is that my person choice if faced with this decision would be the same as the person I voted for. And the second would be that giving someone a gun or money makes you complicit in their actions. For example, Biden's stated reason for giving aid to Israel is to help them thwart the horrible and terrible attacks from Iran [read my tone as one of disbelief] and other terrorists. That was his stated goal. And if he truly believes that, then is it his responsibility if they use that for other purposes?
I don't know everything that Biden has said or done publicly and behind closed doors to indicate what the weapons are to be used for or what circumstances the US will support. I do know that the US called or Israel to stop their abuses in Gaza.
If you gave me a lever that switched the trolley from destroying ukraine to destroying gaza, would I flip the liver to gaza? I'd like to think I would not - despite the fact that Ukraine is a bigger dam against loss of life and liberty.
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dylansan
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I was really referring to this line:
Nothing more.
As far as bearing responsibility for other people's actions, no I don't believe a Biden voter is responsible for everything he does. (Nor did I assume you will vote for Biden, you were clear about that)
I do, however, think that if you have reason to believe a candidate will take certain actions, and you vote for that candidate with the knowledge and acceptance that those actions are likely to occur, then you do bear some responsibility for the results of those actions, even if you ostensibly oppose the actions in question (e.g. if you are voting for them for other reasons, despite your opposition).
I understand that people make decisions like that all the time. I just can't personally do it, when the action in question is funding a genocide. I acknowledge that you don't agree that's what is happening here.
McLaren
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Because most of those folks wisely (& thankfully) didn't think to bring guns. I also think most of those around the woman killed were also unequipped to deal with seeing someone actually get shot & killed in front of their eyes (someone literally yelled, "Medic!" like it's a war movie).
It's not like US agents really even gave them a chance, either as I recall most of the politicians were mostly evacuated before the bulk of the crowd got near them. Still, these images do not really convey any sort of peaceful protesting. These folks were legitimately scared with gas masks issued.
Edit* I'd wager if the recent coup-attempt in Bolivia was more peaceful than Jan 6th.
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dylansan
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At best I think Biden doesn't care about the deaths of Palestinians. Whether or not he wants genocide, as far as I'm concerned he is willing to accept it as the cost of doing business.
If he has seen half of the footage I've seen from Gaza, and hasn't used any leverage to try and get it to stop, then he has no concern for genocide.
Let's be clear, he has leverage. The weapons we give Israel are leverage because we can stop sending them.
US weapons have been used unlawfully to kill Palestinians.
No Weapons for War Crimes
Amnesty International's investigations verified the use of U.S.-made munitions in at least three unlawful attacks by Israeli forces that killed and injured dozens of Palestinian civilians, including many children.
www.amnestyusa.org
It is against US law to send weapons to an entity commiting war crimes and violating the Geneva Conventions.
What Laws Is the State Department Violating by Shipping Weapons to Israel? | Common Dreams
Under several federal laws, the department has a policy prohibiting U.S. weapons transfers when it's likely they will be used to commit genocide, crimes against humanity, grave breaches of the Geneva Conventions of 1949, or other violations of international humanitarian or human rights laws.
www.commondreams.org
South Africa has alleged that Israel has committed war crimes, and the ICJ issued orders to Israel to change its actions to prevent the violation of international law.
South Africa's genocide case against Israel - Wikipedia
The ICC Prosecutor applied for warrants for the arrest of Netanyahu and other Israeli (and Hamas) officials, citing "‘intentionally using starvation of civilians as a method of warfare’ as well as various other war crimes and crimes against humanity associated with starvation and other acts of violence against the Gazan civilian population."
Rather than use the warrants applications and the ICJ resolutions to pressure Israel, the US denied any wrongdoing and rejected the ICC's authority and jurisdiction. Biden called the warrants "outrageous".
What ICC arrest warrants mean for Israel, Benjamin Netanyahu and Hamas
The Israeli and Hamas leaders are suspected of committing war crimes during the continuing war in Gaza.
www.bbc.com
I just don't see any evidence that Biden takes Israel's behavior seriously. He's not just refusing to sanction Israel. He's refusing to stop supporting them wholeheartedly.
I've watched the press conferences with State Dept and other officials. Every day it's denial about things the rest of the world has documented and accepted. With every piece of evidence of a war crime the response is "that's not our assessment" or "we have asked Israel to investigate"
If Biden claims he is against war crimes, I'd like him to provide some evidence of that. Saying it isn't good enough.
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- TexRex72
This is important. The intent was to disrupt congressional proceedings, but they were targeting individuals, identified by name, in the process.
So I appreciate that this image was selected. The chunky monkey in blue-grey cowering in the foreground is Rep. Elise Stefanik (R-NY). Understandably fearful on the day, Stefanik would later refer to those being held to account for actions which had her cowering as "hostages."These folks were legitimately scared with gas masks issued.
You were actually beaten to this. That may make it funnier--a "great minds" sort of thing.
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