450pp Street Car Tuners Club -- Nightly 9:45-12:00 EDT

  • Thread starter chuyler1
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Yeah, despite my understeer, Monaco was fun because I basically served as a moving road block. Everyone was bumping me trying to get me to go faster or get out of the way in the turns, but then i'd shoot up the straights. At one point I think I let someone by for good measure because they had patiently waited 2 laps for me to miss an apex enough to squeeze inside. it's all good though. The bumps just caused more understeer making me slow down even more to hold my line.

I know FR cars are supposed to be quicker than FF cars overall, but the speed differential in the corners was ridiculous. I'm not ready to dismiss the car since I had tons of speed...but there's got to be a way to get those front tires to turn in. The highest i went with camber was 2.0 but i ended up scratching it since it didn't help my low speed corners and it was causing the tires to overheat quicker when braking.
 
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I think that's me getting in the way. I tried to pick the most bland color possible for my car. I probably looked like an old lady out for a Sunday joy ride.
 
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Kudos for everyone sticking to the proper race line through this chicane. I think its actually faster to take it slow on entry because it gives you more track to accelerate afterward. i didn't see anyone cutting it (on purpose) but then again, i was toward the back of the pack.
 
t there's got to be a way to get those front tires to turn in. The highest i went with camber was 2.0 but i ended up scratching it since it didn't help my low speed corners and it was causing the tires to overheat quicker when braking.

for turn-in understeer: Negative (in the game) front & possibly rear toe, stiffen up the rear compared to front, softer compression in front, softer extension in rear on the dampers, use brakes to unload the rear and get it to rotate.

for exit understeer: stiffer front extension, stiffer rear compression dampers. it's fwd and sounds like it has decent power for a fwd so the laws of physics may make it difficult to eliminate completely without very good throttle control.

I dont use FFs in the game at all but this works for me when it comes cars of other drive layouts that understeer lots.
 
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rear toe -- i dropped it from .20 to .00 -- should i run negative?
front toe -- i changed from .00 to -.05 -- thought about going more but didn't want to make tire wear worse
rear stiffness -- I went from 4.2/4.0 to about 6.0/7.0 then put sway bars at 3/7
dampers -- They were all set to 4. I will try inducing some forward weight.
Ride height -- I was trying +5/-5 and +10/-10 but the trick didn't work as well as on other cars.

Maybe I'll try some weight reduction and then add ballast to the trunk.
 
How difficult was it to tune that Honda Accord Euro-R? I saw someone at the front in that car. Care to share the tune?
 
I apologize for being real aggressive the last lap of London. I held a 2.5 second lead at one point and watched it dwindle 0.5 seconds per lap as my front tires got chewed up. I had the speed to get along side the leader before the last turn but I pushed wide while braking and made contact.

So anyway, got feedback on the theme? Should we just allow AWD sedans next time to get in some of the Audis?

No worries about the final corner. I understand it was for the win and winning is winning. :)

However, I was a little upset with your last second block you made on the front stretch at the start of Lap 10. I got a good run on you coming out of the last corner and was going to go past you on your right. I made my move and just as I managed to get my nose up to your right-rear wheel you decided it was a good time to block me into the wall. :mad:

I had a lot of fun that race trying to pass people clean and AOK and I had some pretty good position exchanges. I should have stuck with that Lancer instead of going to the Accord. Oh, I apologize for only having prepped those two cars for last night. After I read your post in the thread saying we could use any FF/FR sedan, since there was a lack of European sedans fitting the requirements, I scanned my garage and settled on those two.


I liked the theme but with the speed differential among the different drivetrain types I think it would be best to have a night exclusively for FF sedans and a separate night for FR/AWD sedans.
 
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How difficult was it to tune that Honda Accord Euro-R? I saw someone at the front in that car. Care to share the tune?

First I want to say, somewhat like Osprey, I traditionally don't drive FF with more than 200hp because I never knew how to tune them correctly and I hated the throttle-on understeer. Recently, I have been been running in Mule's Integra Type R series and trying some pretty radical tunes to try to get the car to rotate. We all know how effed GT5's tuning system is so I had to throw all real world knowledge out the window and get dirty.

Well, new $hit came to light, man, and I figured out how to free up the a$$ end of the Integra and the car is actually somewhat enjoyable to drive now. I applied that knowledge to the Accord Euro R last night and, as I mentioned before, was able to qualify P1 for Madrid before I started experiencing the "phantom" lag issues and then won Rome by a handy margin. Yes, I know that the Accord's straight line speed was dominate but I felt that the car was rotating pretty well for a FF with nearly 300hp and would have still been competitive without that advantage.

I can't remember my exact settings for the Accord off-hand but the general principle that I use for FF is to make the front substantially stiffer than the rear of the car. Here is a rough guesstimate of what my settings were last night:

[f/r]
RH -20/-20
Springs 12.0/5.0
Comp 5/5
Ext 3/3
ARB 3/1

Camber 2.0/1.8
Toe 0.0/0.0

I haven't spent any actual time testing how toe adjustments in GT5 affect the car's handling. I left it at zero because I assume that it is also inconsistent with real world logic. I can update you with definite numbers when I get home.

I do plan on spending more time tuning this car in hopes of developing a proper tune since it did prove to be an extremely competitive car. It might become one of my regular 450pp on our open run nights.
 
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give it a shot

are you sure you're not going too fast on entry?
Yes. I was going unbelievably slow on entry (ask anyone who was behind me).

However, I was a little upset with your last second block you made on the front stretch at the start of Lap 10. I got a good run on you coming out of the last corner and was going to go past you on your right. I made my move and just as I managed to get my nose up to your right-rear wheel you decided it was a good time to block me into the wall. :mad:
I didn't mean to put you in the wall. I wasn't sure if you were going to get my draft because my car had been super fast up the straight and no one else was able to catch me on that part of the track. I thought I had a good gap but when I saw you coming up fast I moved right to take the inside line just as you were nosing in. Any other lap and I would have let you draft pass. I can't tell you how frustrating it was to see my 2.5 second gap dwindle so quickly. I don't think I touched any walls, clipped any corners, or missed any apexes by more than a foot or two...it was all just tires. Where did you start that race btw? Was someone holding you up earlier in the race?

Anyway, i'll admit it was dirty. I could claim it was my GTP_OLR/F1 rulebook single move on the straight from left to right...but it was ill timed. I should have moved over much sooner giving you the opportunity to maintain momentum up the outside.
 
I dont understand why folks had to use Accords and Altezzas. Go buy a Merc or BMW and come back to the room. On the straights, the Japanese cars were quicker (think 4wd vs 2wd on Comfort Soft) only to then have them lose 1-2 seconds with their FF drivetrains plowing through the corners, burning tires the last 2-3 laps of the race. Unfortunately, most courses run had an emphasis on straight line speed so poor lines + speed won.

Could we try an implement again the if you win or are consistently coming in the top 3, change cars. Every race after the first, the same 330is and Accords were parked at the top. Its titled tuners club...tune more than one car. :rolleyes:
 
Where did you start that race btw? Was someone holding you up earlier in the race?

Anyway, i'll admit it was dirty. I could claim it was my GTP_OLR/F1 rulebook single move on the straight from left to right...but it was ill timed. I should have moved over much sooner giving you the opportunity to maintain momentum up the outside.

I believe I started somewhere around P5. I was pretty cautious on the start and with the lack of passing opportunities I had to work pretty hard to make a clean pass. I did get held up a few times and remember quickly pulling away from a few people that I passed but nothing major. As you have mentioned, I think me catching you so quickly was largely due to the tire wear you were experiencing. I still had plenty of tire life left and hadn't lost any noticeable amount of grip.
 
I dont understand why folks had to use Accords and Altezzas. Go buy a Merc or BMW and come back to the room. On the straights, the Japanese cars were quicker (think 4wd vs 2wd on Comfort Soft) only to then have them lose 1-2 seconds with their FF drivetrains plowing through the corners, burning tires the last 2-3 laps of the race. Unfortunately, most courses run had an emphasis on straight line speed so poor lines + speed won.

Could we try an implement again the if you win or are consistently coming in the top 3, change cars. Every race after the first, the same 330is and Accords were parked at the top. Its titled tuners club...tune more than one car. :rolleyes:

IIRC, All of the BMWs and Mercs that are available in the NCD are over 450 PP. Usually when I think of 'tuning' I think of tuning up. I guess we could try tuning down, or pushing the cap to 500?
 
[f/r]
RH -20/-20
Springs 12.0/5.0
Comp 5/5
Ext 3/3
ARB 3/1

that's funny brosif completely opposite what 'real world' says. maybe r means drive wheels, f following wheels :dopey:.

i wonder if the ride height glitch affects it.. ie. at RH 0/0 would it still work

whatever, as long as it works!!
 
Could we try an implement again the if you win or are consistently coming in the top 3, change cars. Every race after the first, the same 330is and Accords were parked at the top. Its titled tuners club...tune more than one car. :rolleyes:

I don't think you are calling me out but just as an FYI.

My race results:

London - Mitsu Lancer '84 - 3rd
Madrid - Accord Euro R '02 - 6th
Monaco - Accord Euro R '02 - not sure. definitely >8th.
Rome - Accord Euro R '02 - 1st

So I did change after getting on the podium and had dismal couple races until Rome. :cheers:
 
You can tune transmission, suspension, clutch/flywheel combinations, ballast posistion and aerodynamics then engine limit. I guarentee 90% of the cars were parted beyond 450 and then limited. Only Chuyler POS was unique and had I seen any italian or french rides...I would have used just to have more variety. To say though that de tuning isnt tuning is ??

Following Instructions 👍👍👍
 
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i usually do switch other nights diabolic but, the 330i is the only car i have that fit the bill. the m5 and mercedes would have to be de-tuned a lot to fit the 450 and I don't 'do' FF.
 
Now that you admit it Chuyler! would you let me pass the next time? :D

BTW, i still s*ck using the DFGT! couldnt countersteer fast enough! d*mn! didnt know driving one is this hard! :crazy:
but i admit using manual trans feels like night and day compare to my DS3.
 
I was in my lounge practicing with one my AMG Merc. I then left and flipped through the UCD until I found another car to use. It took about 10 minutes for an M5 to come through, but it did and I bought it and tuned it (missed the first race because of that) only to find the rules are different. Folks had a day or two to find a car and I found one in 10 minutes...could everyone else?

There is a UCD to flip through. 💡
Skip through5 license tests to shift all 30 cars...It takes about 4 minutes. :dopey:
 
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have to detune my Merc just to compete, i had a Civic Sedan Type R but i did not drive it, might be overkill since nobody was using it. My other was an Audi S4 but is AWD. Couldnt get a BMW thru UCD but heck these things were flyin!!!

Mine was burning rubber thru the corners with a little bit of oversteer but my weakness for the past few races was always in straightline speed... :crazy:
 
esoxhntr
that's funny brosif completely opposite what 'real world' says. maybe r means drive wheels, f following wheels :dopey:.

i wonder if the ride height glitch affects it.. ie. at RH 0/0 would it still work

whatever, as long as it works!!

Right on!
 
I had only like 20 mins to, earn money, buy a car, tune it, and missed the first race. never finish in the podium but had fun nonethless,
 
I'm a bit standoffish at the moment and its coming through here. I'm probably most upset that I missed the one race I tuned for then didnt have an Accord to use. Work is mounding and my coworker left me with a stack of 🤬 to get through in the next hour. (which I need to get to now actually :D)

I need a beer and I'd like to see something naked--Jeff Foxworthy
 
Diabolic, I don't think any of the tracks favored straight line speed except possibly Rome. It wasn't Japan vs Europe either...it was simply FF vs FR. My Citroen was in the same boat as the Accords and Altezzas. I think the game provides more speed at the same PP for FF cars than FR cars just like it appears to do so with FR cars vs 4WD cars. I've never been able to get speed out of a 4WD car.

The issue for FR drivers last night was that they gained time in the corners while FF drivers gained time on the straights. Both could run similar lap times until tire wear became a factor. But that's how racing is in real life. It typically takes several laps of following someone to get around them. If a FF driver runs a clean line, even if it is slow, you just have to work harder to get around them. We ran 8+ laps so its not like it was a 3 lap sprint. If you run out of time getting to the front make sure you get a good qualifying run on the next race. I strive to hold my qualifying position and anything I get beyond that is bonus.

With regards to car swapping. I don't expect people to have multiple cars ready for these whacky themes. However, one of the scoreboards showed all BMWs at the top which clearly showed there was a trend. That says to me that the theme was not set up to provide equal competition...or the fast drivers just knew to pick the fastest, best performing car. I couldn't compete at the same level so I just tried to hit my apexes and challenge others to get creative when they passed me.

I am ok with requiring car swaps for drivers that win by a big margin. If the 2nd place driver feels they were severely disadvantaged, the winner needs to switch it up or pull over and start from the rear the next race or something. I posted a video of Osprey and I battling it out in RX-7s. The battle was for 2nd while the leader in his Lotus was miles ahead. It wasn't just superior driving that won that race for him...it was his car.

Now that you admit it Chuyler! would you let me pass the next time? :D
If it is on the last straight, hell no! You'll have to pass me on the outside. I think for fairness i'll have to work on making my 1 move on the straight earlier. I just don't like giving up the inside unless I have to...but after watching the indy 500...i see they move inside, then track back out. before turn in. I'll try that.

Another trick, which we mentioned before is bump drafting when it is safe. Unless you are fighting for first place, or first place is within drafting distance, use a little bump drafting to close the gap faster. It worked great for RedReevos and SohnVonStig on hatchback night.

I dont get this "I dont have the right car" talk. :odd:
There is a UCD to flip through. 💡
Skip through5 license tests to shift all 30 cars...It takes about 4 minutes. :dopey:

BTW, some of the people on my list do not subscribe to this thread and have found the club just by seeing the open lobby. On most nights I am pretty strict about the theme but I thought there were more premium sedans to choose from. I didn't realize they were all 500+ pp. When people pop in and want to join us, I tend to be a little lenient if I think their selection is close enough. The guy in the 4wd hatchback obviously got kicked immediately...but a japanese sedan instead of a euro sedan is less of an issue, especially when people don't really collect sedans.
 
so its open night tonite? maybe I have time to properly tune something :indiff:
yes. I typically don't join in on Fridays and Saturdays. Not sure who will be hosting. Whoever decides to host, just post the room number here.

A few notes about hosting...
* Do not put damage on full -- it just doesn't work out for short sprints
* Penalties are usually on light but for most tracks they aren't required
* Remember to turn off all aids
* Remember to set PP and Tire restrictions
 
@ Chuyler-Madrid favored straight line speed. I followed Brosif around for 6 laps out of 8 while he was in the Accord. As soon as we'd clear the final little chicane, he'd barrel 3-4 seconds ahead. I'd make it all back on the remainder of the track but could never be quick enough to make a passing attempt. I would call that favoring the straight.

My complaints if yo ulook over them were drivetrain related. That the FFs could trundle down the straights, burning through tires, bouncing off walls and still keep in front (in the accords case, over some very good drivers in 330i's) The japan vs europe thing, well you yourself had to block to keep the japanese cars behind you and if I'm not mistaken, I think Japanese won every other race with the smallest victory being 3+ seconds after london.

Either way, that was last night. I'm ready for today which is the best part about this group; we try it all again the next night.
 
Regarding the power limiting, I don't think its fair because it essentially gives you a much wider power band than a car that was not detuned but has the same output. This is obviously more of a problem the more you detune higherpowered cars. Maybe we could make a rule that if you do limit power, you can only go down to 95% or something, where it doesn't make that big of an effect on the power curve.
 
being that trq is part of the pp equation, detuning too much usually puts you at a disadvantage.

detuning a viper or lambo to 450pp is possible, (i have done it), but they will only have 230hp and still weigh a ton. they will have lots of trq, so they will be fast at the start, but will suffer at speed, and really suffer in the straights.

i still believe that the nsx does so well because it has such low trq for its high horsepower, meaning that it can have more horsepower than others at that weight. plus it handles like a dream.

i dont mind if people detune... i havent seen one of these cars dominate.
 
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