A better view of Gran Turismo 7's Economy... And Grind

[watto79]

The total value of all cars in GT6 was 692,000,000

I can't find the same information for GT5.

I don't really get why this has been overlooked in the OP. I'm not defending the GT7 grind (it is terrible) but it's not really a comparison with so much overlooked in GT5 and 6.

 

[Grimm6Jack]

It doesn't seem a particularly objective comparison if a large proportion of the cars in GT5 & 6 have been removed before comparing.

Agreed. It's only 243 premiums out of 1074 total in GT5's case. That's a lot of extra grinding!

The total value of all cars in GT6 was 692,000,000

I can't find the same information for GT5.

I don't really get why this has been overlooked in the OP. I'm not defending the GT7 grind (it is terrible) but it's not really a comparison with so much overlooked in GT5 and 6.

Can't be bothered to waste time with cars that were specifically in both games to literally just make up the numbers. I just focused on the cars that PD actually put the effort in to make for the game during the game's development cycle.

Fortunately, PD did take the right direction with GT7 and not port old premiums from the PS3 era this time, or, god forbid, all the junk from the PS2 era. There was quite a vocal backlash at the time because of this.
Also, the total value of the GT6 cars was not 692 million... It was 500 or so million. Gran Turismo 5 was a bit over 300 million.

I can however add about 5 million to the grind to GT5 because there's one single "Standard" quality car in GT5 that is indeed required for the completion of one of the events, the Formula Gran Turismo. All other events can be completed with Premium Cars (or standard cars that were won for free from events).



I'm going to add a bit more info about each of the games, and will add GT3's stats as well.

 

[FPV MIC]

Can't be bothered to waste time with cars that were specifically in both games to literally just make up the numbers. I just focused on the cars that PD actually put the effort in to make for the game during the game's development cycle.

Fortunately, PD did take the right direction with GT7 and not port old premiums from the PS3 era this time, or, god forbid, all the junk from the PS2 era. There was quite a vocal backlash at the time because of this.
Also, the total value of the GT6 cars was not 692 million... It was 500 or so million. Gran Turismo 5 was a bit over 300 million.

I can however add about 5 million to the grind to GT5 because there's one single "Standard" quality car in GT5 that is indeed required for the completion of one of the events, the Formula Gran Turismo. All other events can be completed with Premium Cars (or standard cars that were won for free from events).



I'm going to add a bit more info about each of the games, and will add GT3's stats as well.

To be a fair comparison though it needs to be either all cars or only those needed to complete the events (by your own definition that I've highlighted). This would be a totally different number for GT 7 as well under you're ''I can't be bothered scenario'' as many of the 20 million cars (if any at all???) like the S Barker Tourer aren't required to complete the events.

 

[Nebuc72]

Yeah whilst I do agree the GT7 grind is bad, in terms of both the earning rate and the variety, it is quite disingenuous to discount the majority of the cars in both GT5 and GT6 if you are trying to create an "objective" analysis.

I would understand if you were trying to create an example of how long it would take to acquire 476 million credits (how much you need to buy all the cars in GT7) compared to the older games, but it is a strange decision to omit a large part of the games vehicle roster in an analysis just because you felt like it.

 

[rkwld]

TLDR: GT4 was the last good Gran Turismo game.

 

[watto79]

Can't be bothered to waste time with cars that were specifically in both games to literally just make up the numbers. I just focused on the cars that PD actually put the effort in to make for the game during the game's development cycle.

That's all opinions though and isn't objective. You could make the exact same argument about excluding all VGT cars from the comparison.

Its your thing but you can't call it objective, only to exclude elements because of how you feel about them.

It's a shame because there's a solid argument to be made against GT7's economy and grind, but your argument loses credibility because of your subjective approach to it.

 

[Zero2Oblivion]

A higher grind time makes sense.

The GT series was primarily focused on single player content with multiplayer/online being a secondary concern.

In the modern age of online gaming and eSports, games have a heavier focus on online multiplayer over single player content. GT Sport was intended to be an online eSports GT game, but due to fan reaction PD tacked on some single player content. The online Sports mode however was still the focus. This has carried on through to GT7. GT is now in an era where single player content is no longer the bread'n'butter for genres that are suitable for eSports - online multiplayer is. Compare GT7 to other online focused games and you'll see it follows the normal patterns - regular additional characters/cars, and updated maps/tracks once in awhile, easily accessible matchmaking for normal players (Daily Races) and competitive matchmaking for those that are series (Manufacturers, Nations etc).

But if a portion of your user base aren't interested in online play, or are apprehensive about trying it, how do you get them to try? You can't.

If the solo content for the game can be grinded out in 40 hours, what is there for those players once they've golded everything and purchased every car? Nothing. They're playing something else, waiting for the next DLC.

So you make the solo content act more like a MMORPG - you work the economy to make sure that everything can't be earned in 40 hours, or that certain things can only be won by RNG. You stretch it out while other tracks and cars are worked on. However single player is never the primary focus, so making the grind longer is your only solution. Sure, you'll lose players doing it that way, but you won't lose as many as you would if everything was easily grinded out in 40 hours.

This grind is the reality of modern gaming.

 

[Dave A]

A higher grind time makes sense.

The GT series was primarily focused on single player content with multiplayer/online being a secondary concern.

In the modern age of online gaming and eSports, games have a heavier focus on online multiplayer over single player content. GT Sport was intended to be an online eSports GT game, but due to fan reaction PD tacked on some single player content. The online Sports mode however was still the focus. This has carried on through to GT7. GT is now in an era where single player content is no longer the bread'n'butter for genres that are suitable for eSports - online multiplayer is. Compare GT7 to other online focused games and you'll see it follows the normal patterns - regular additional characters/cars, and updated maps/tracks once in awhile, easily accessible matchmaking for normal players (Daily Races) and competitive matchmaking for those that are series (Manufacturers, Nations etc).

But if a portion of your user base aren't interested in online play, or are apprehensive about trying it, how do you get them to try? You can't.

If the solo content for the game can be grinded out in 40 hours, what is there for those players once they've golded everything and purchased every car? Nothing. They're playing something else, waiting for the next DLC.

So you make the solo content act more like a MMORPG - you work the economy to make sure that everything can't be earned in 40 hours, or that certain things can only be won by RNG. You stretch it out while other tracks and cars are worked on. However single player is never the primary focus, so making the grind longer is your only solution. Sure, you'll lose players doing it that way, but you won't lose as many as you would if everything was easily grinded out in 40 hours.

This grind is the reality of modern gaming.

I disagree massively, the grind exists to push MTX's not to keep players interested. Very few players will ever save enough Cr to buy a 20m Cr car relative to the total player base. In earlier titles players acquired what they wanted and then enjoyed using that content.

In GT7 that content is locked behind a very long, repetitive grind or buying Cr. The simple fact players don't have to grind, they can instead pay real money to skip it (as well as ignore the 100m Cr cap) disproves your point entirely.

 

[Grimm6Jack]

That's all opinions though and isn't objective. You could make the exact same argument about excluding all VGT cars from the comparison.

Its your thing but you can't call it objective, only to exclude elements because of how you feel about them.

It's a shame because there's a solid argument to be made against GT7's economy and grind, but your argument loses credibility because of your subjective approach to it.

Not really because the VGT (or rather all cars in GT7) have the same level of detail as all the other cars in the current game, they were repolished to be in this game.
All other Gran Turismos are the same aside from GT5 and GT6 who had cars ported from the PSP/PS2, basically cars from GT4 and GT/PSP into the game but had absolutely nothing done to them to stand up to the standards of the new generation, cars that basically have no place in the game.
I can't accept GT5-GT6 standard cars as part of something that is "collectible" on those games when they shouldn't have been there at all in the first place.

My argument doesn't lose much credibility with this. Gran Turismo 4 is there to prove it. That you can make a game last long enough for people to play it for months or even years without being obnoxiously grindy (repeat of same events).

I could've also posted GT7's stats for grinding before the updates or better yet, after PD made the 1.07 update... And then I would make GT7 really look the part and show how scumy PD is being with this game towards its players. But that's not my objective.

But... even with all of that, both, GT5 and GT6 would still take less time to grind for those 1.000+ cars than GT7 would with its sub 450... Even with the servers dead. And btw, I did consider VGTs for GT6.


If anything, it makes it look even worse. And don't get me wrong, GT7 is still a better game than GT5 or GT6 ever hoped to be, those 2 games for me are the worst of the series, but GT7 is by far the most grindy and PD have tried everything to make it so (again 1.07 is proof).

But hey, if it bothers you people, I can post the grind with those 1.000 cars... Just don't count on me however to go over all of their prices. If any of you can provide me with the exact amount, I can just do the calculations.

 

[FPV MIC]

No one seems to be denying that GT7 is a grindfest (because it is). It's the title of the thread saying ''objective'' when...

I can't accept GT5-GT6 standard cars as part of something that is "collectible" on those games when they shouldn't have been there at all in the first place.

...makes it a subjective view.

 

[Zero2Oblivion]

I disagree massively, the grind exists to push MTX's not to keep players interested. Very few players will ever save enough Cr to buy a 20m Cr car relative to the total player base. In earlier titles players acquired what they wanted and then enjoyed using that content.

In GT7 that content is locked behind a very long, repetitive grind or buying Cr. The simple fact players don't have to grind, they can instead pay real money to skip it (as well as ignore the 100m Cr cap) disproves your point entirely.

That's debatable. MTX aren't pushed in my opinion.

A push would be including a button or option within the transaction screen, so that when you see a 20mill credit car, if you don't have enough credits the game suggests/pushes you to buy credits using real world money. A lot of other games do this.

GT7 however gives you the option from the main menu. And that's all it is - an option. You can either save up gradually, focus on grinding to try to "speed up" the process, or you can buy credits. It's a choice you, as the player, make. PD aren't pushing or forcing you.

 

[RichiPuppy]

That's debatable. MTX aren't pushed in my opinion.

A push would be including a button or option within the transaction screen, so that when you see a 20mill credit car, if you don't have enough credits the game suggests/pushes you to buy credits using real world money. A lot of other games do this.

GT7 however gives you the option from the main menu. And that's all it is - an option. You can either save up gradually, focus on grinding to try to "speed up" the process, or you can buy credits. It's a choice you, as the player, make. PD aren't pushing or forcing you.

No it’s not debatable. The high price for cars mixed with the very slow grind is just that, a push for MTX.

And comparing this to other games that are online focused is not a good comparison. Those games the majority of players play online, where this game the majority, and at that a large majority never play online. Don’t believe me, look at the completion of single player trophies compared to any online trophies at all.

 

[kraftwerkd]

TLDR: GT4 was the last good Gran Turismo game.

Funnily enough it was the last GT game before internet-connected consoles were a reality, heralding the "we can fix it in post!" mentality we see nowadays. Need I mention "Spec 2.0" versions of the newer titles? Case in point.

 

[NotThePrez]

That's debatable. MTX aren't pushed in my opinion.

A push would be including a button or option within the transaction screen, so that when you see a 20mill credit car, if you don't have enough credits the game suggests/pushes you to buy credits using real world money. A lot of other games do this.

The game literally does this.



In the clip above (starts at 8:43), the option to buy the car is greyed out, but you have the ability to top-up on the PSN store right below. Also, the top-up option is (as far as I can tell) always there regardless of if you can afford the car or not.

GT7 however gives you the option from the main menu.

And whenever you try to buy anything.

And that's all it is - an option. You can either save up gradually, focus on grinding to try to "speed up" the process, or you can buy credits. It's a choice you, as the player, make. PD aren't pushing or forcing you.

Yeah, no. If this "option" in the main menu was the only thing by itself, then you'd maybe have a point. But it's the fact that this option is always present, even when you can afford an item, on top of the insane grind in GT7, and having most of the sought-after cars locked behind a revolving-door system, which in of itself is very obviously designed to invoke FOMO on the player.

What's currently present is very much a push to get players to buy MTXs, but PD/Sony try to dress it up in a way that tries to make it seem less aggressive than it actually is.

 

[k20_Bones]

That's debatable. MTX aren't pushed in my opinion.

A push would be including a button or option within the transaction screen, so that when you see a 20mill credit car, if you don't have enough credits the game suggests/pushes you to buy credits using real world money. A lot of other games do this.

GT7 however gives you the option from the main menu. And that's all it is - an option. You can either save up gradually, focus on grinding to try to "speed up" the process, or you can buy credits. It's a choice you, as the player, make. PD aren't pushing or forcing you.

Agreed. In no way are the MTX pushed on you. Threes no flashy button or bright colored text pointing you to the MTX if you're short on credits for something. Nowhere is it even advertised directly to the player that you can purchase credits for cars you don't have the credits for. Yes, when on the purchase screen there is an option to "Top-up on the PlayStation Store", But its on the bottom of the tab in small text that doesn't stand out in any way shape or form, and isn't worded in a seductive way to get you to click on it and see what they're offering. I'm all for having no MTX in games (Especially a GT game) but I truly can't understand how one would come to the conclusion that this game was designed around MTX and they're purposely giving us no content so we spend all our RL money to buy the few extremely expensive cars in the game. That doesn't track for a MTX system that doesn't go out of its way to announce itself every chance it can. IMO, It's most likely that MTX were added because dev's know how much income they generate and how willing people are to indulge in them. It makes everyone involved on the corporate side if things happy which sadly is a valid reason as those people are the ones with the funds. Mix that fact in with a game that was released way before it was complete with a ton of game breaking bugs such as: Game save data disappearing, Not being able to progress café menu's, Sport mode/Lobbies causing the game to crash, etc. Issues like that take precedence over everything else because it literally breaks the game. This explains why they haven't polished the economy, Or added the ability to sell cars, or fixed any of the broken features in the game. They can't when they're constantly playing catchup and using what resources they do have to drip feed us slivers of content in an attempt to appease us. This all stems from them being overambitious and releasing even though it clearly wasn't finished, which is 100% on them and we have the right to be upset. But, that doesn't mean their the kind of dumb that would use the release of their flagship title, the first in almost decade, as a short term cash grab via designing a game that overprices the in-game cost of the cars and then forces MTX down your throat by specifically not offering a healthy variety of ways to make the amounts of credits needed for the most expensive cars in game.

 

[Zero2Oblivion]

The game literally does this.

I stand corrected on that, thank you for pointing that out.

Agreed. In no way are the MTX pushed on you. Threes no flashy button or bright colored text pointing you to the MTX if you're short on credits for something. Nowhere is it even advertised directly to the player that you can purchase credits for cars you don't have the credits for. Yes, when on the purchase screen there is an option to "Top-up on the PlayStation Store", But its on the bottom of the tab in small text that doesn't stand out in any way shape or form, and isn't worded in a seductive way to get you to click on it and see what they're offering. I'm all for having no MTX in games (Especially a GT game) but I truly can't understand how one would come to the conclusion that this game was designed around MTX and they're purposely giving us no content so we spend all our RL money to buy the few extremely expensive cars in the game. That doesn't track for a MTX system that doesn't go out of its way to announce itself every chance it can. IMO, It's most likely that MTX were added because dev's know how much income they generate and how willing people are to indulge in them. It makes everyone involved on the corporate side if things happy which sadly is a valid reason as those people are the ones with the funds. Mix that fact in with a game that was released way before it was complete with a ton of game breaking bugs such as: Game save data disappearing, Not being able to progress café menu's, Sport mode/Lobbies causing the game to crash, etc. Issues like that take precedence over everything else because it literally breaks the game. This explains why they haven't polished the economy, Or added the ability to sell cars, or fixed any of the broken features in the game. They can't when they're constantly playing catchup and using what resources they do have to drip feed us slivers of content in an attempt to appease us. This all stems from them being overambitious and releasing even though it clearly wasn't finished, which is 100% on them and we have the right to be upset. But, that doesn't mean their the kind of dumb that would use the release of their flagship title, the first in almost decade, as a short term cash grab via designing a game that overprices the in-game cost of the cars and then forces MTX down your throat by specifically not offering a healthy variety of ways to make the amounts of credits needed for the most expensive cars in game.

I appreciate you.

My whole stance is simply that I don't think they're forced. Having been here and on Reddit when the game launched, you'd swear the local asylums would have seen an insane increase in people being admitted for hysteria... Because a dev put the option to buy credits in a game.

I understand why people are against it - it is a $80 game, MTX shouldn't be in there, but they're not forced.

There are 4 cars that are required for trophies, if you're someone who is compelled to platinum games, you may feel compelled to spend on MTX when one of those cars comes into the dealership, but that is a player thing. You can spend on the MTX or you can grind out and wait for the next time the car comes around.

Otherwise, there is nothing gained by owning every car in the game. Nothing aside from a full catalog. No trophy. No award. Nothing. If you feel compelled to own every car, that's on you, the player.

No it’s not debatable.

If two people (or more) are having a discussion about something, with opposing views or opinions, in the hopes of sharing the pros and cons of either side of the discussion...

That's known as a debate.

Sorry for having to break that to you.

 

[k20_Bones]

there is nothing gained by owning every car in the game. Nothing aside from a full catalog. No trophy. No award. Nothing. If you feel compelled to own every car, that's on you, the player.

^ This is something I always get confused about. Since when did collecting every single car become such a big deal? A very large majority of the extremely expensive cars are things that you’re not gonna enjoy just ripping around a track for hours on end. Don’t get me wrong there will always be people who will do just that, but what’s the point of grinding all this time away and stressing over it if the reward is a car you only want because you don’t have? It’s such a small amount of cars that cause all this anger about the economy that it almost doesn’t make sense.

 

[05XR8]

Trying to remember, but I think the grinding part of GT3 for me, were trying to get a different color car. For example, the TOM'S X540 came in four colors. Doing a Championship(can't remember how many races) to win the same color, before getting a different color was a long road. Especially, if I was gifted a car other than the X540.

 

[FPV MIC]

Trying to remember, but I think the grinding part of GT3 for me, were trying to get a different color car. For example, the TOM'S X540 came in four colors. Doing a Championship(can't remember how many races) to win the same color, before getting a different color was a long road. Especially, if I was gifted a car other than the X540.

Can't remember which one it was either but I distinctly remember grinding for the different colour LM FTO's and kept getting green ones when I was trying to get a red one. Red being faster of course

 

[sh33p]

A higher grind time makes sense.

The GT series was primarily focused on single player content with multiplayer/online being a secondary concern.

In the modern age of online gaming and eSports, games have a heavier focus on online multiplayer over single player content. GT Sport was intended to be an online eSports GT game, but due to fan reaction PD tacked on some single player content. The online Sports mode however was still the focus. This has carried on through to GT7. GT is now in an era where single player content is no longer the bread'n'butter for genres that are suitable for eSports - online multiplayer is. Compare GT7 to other online focused games and you'll see it follows the normal patterns - regular additional characters/cars, and updated maps/tracks once in awhile, easily accessible matchmaking for normal players (Daily Races) and competitive matchmaking for those that are series (Manufacturers, Nations etc).

But if a portion of your user base aren't interested in online play, or are apprehensive about trying it, how do you get them to try? You can't.

If the solo content for the game can be grinded out in 40 hours, what is there for those players once they've golded everything and purchased every car? Nothing. They're playing something else, waiting for the next DLC.

So you make the solo content act more like a MMORPG - you work the economy to make sure that everything can't be earned in 40 hours, or that certain things can only be won by RNG. You stretch it out while other tracks and cars are worked on. However single player is never the primary focus, so making the grind longer is your only solution. Sure, you'll lose players doing it that way, but you won't lose as many as you would if everything was easily grinded out in 40 hours.

This grind is the reality of modern gaming.

This point would make sense if you earnt more money in online play compared to single player….

But considering you earn considerabley less money and the grind to collect all of the cars (playing online only) would surely take thousands and thousends of hours.

Plus you seem to be forgetting that Pd marketed this game in a way that slated single player to be its main focus, with Sport mode as an additional feature.

 

[Imari]

Having been here and on Reddit when the game launched, you'd swear the local asylums would have seen an insane increase in people being admitted for hysteria... Because a dev put the option to buy credits in a game.

Do you not follow any other games? The outcry here was much the same as when any other game introduces microtransactions. The few that get away without massive outcry are the ones where everyone already expects there to be microtransactions and for them to be awful - sports games mostly.

The fuss over GT7 was nothing compared to say, Battlefront 2, another game that was fundamentally fun to play but the economy was designed in a horrifically abusive way. The pushback there forced actual major changes in the way that game worked, and made it significantly better.

There are 4 cars that are required for trophies, if you're someone who is compelled to platinum games, you may feel compelled to spend on MTX when one of those cars comes into the dealership, but that is a player thing.

That's a design thing. They could have made sure that cars required for trophies were always available or awarded through normal completion of the game, but they chose to put them in a system that offers periodic availability instead. You can't blame the player for wanting to play the game.

 

[05XR8]

Can't remember which one it was either but I distinctly remember grinding for the different colour LM FTO's and kept getting green ones when I was trying to get a red one. Red being faster of course

Yes. That's was one issue. It would happen with trying to get the RX-7 LM as well.
Definitely not causing to derail or take away from the OP. It's tough to compare games before GT7. One major factor are the roulette. It totally negates grinding. The player has to play once a day, for 42kms and hope to get an invite.
It's the pick of the draw for players to get all cars. Not just to grind or buy credits, but simply getting the chance to acquire an invite car.

 

[NotThePrez]

^ This is something I always get confused about. Since when did collecting every single car become such a big deal?

The game actively wants, encourages and rewards you to try and collect as many cars as possible. For some people, that may expand into wanting to collect one of every car, because that would be equivalent to "beating the game" for them.

In any case, don't blame the player for wanting to actually play the game.

A very large majority of the extremely expensive cars are things that you’re not gonna enjoy just ripping around a track for hours on end.

How do you know exactly what other people do/do not enjoy? People get their enjoyment out of games in different ways. Just because some players may want to do something that you wouldn't doesn't mean that they're wrong for wanting to do so.

It’s such a small amount of cars that cause all this anger about the economy that it almost doesn’t make sense.

The anger is cause by these "small number of cars" also being some of the most expensive cars in GT7, and that a frankly unreasonable time commitment is needed to get the credits necessary to purchase them. Don't forget as well that most of these types of cars are only present in a revolving-door-style dealership that, if you miss your chance to buy them, you won't have another chance to purchase said vehicle for 2 months (last I checked at least). It's also been shown that the game does indeed actively encourage players to buy MTXs to circumvent the grind, and GT7s economy is clearly designed to make this option more tempting.

Locking content already in the game behind insane grinds with the regular temptation of MTXs is usually expected in free-to-play mobile and PC games, not in a $70-$100, 1st-party AAA title.

 

[GTboyz]

Locking content already in the game behind insane grinds with the regular temptation of MTXs is usually expected in free-to-play mobile and PC games, not in a $70-$100, 1st-party AAA title.

It's just weird that I feel like sometimes I don't know what PD wants to do with this game.

It's a single player game but not really.
It's a live service game but also not really.

 

[Dave A]

My whole stance is simply that I don't think they're forced. Having been here and on Reddit when the game launched, you'd swear the local asylums would have seen an insane increase in people being admitted for hysteria... Because a dev put the option to buy credits in a game.

I understand why people are against it - it is a $80 game, MTX shouldn't be in there, but they're not forced.

There are 4 cars that are required for trophies, if you're someone who is compelled to platinum games, you may feel compelled to spend on MTX when one of those cars comes into the dealership, but that is a player thing. You can spend on the MTX or you can grind out and wait for the next time the car comes around.

Otherwise, there is nothing gained by owning every car in the game. Nothing aside from a full catalog. No trophy. No award. Nothing. If you feel compelled to own every car, that's on you, the player.


If two people (or more) are having a discussion about something, with opposing views or opinions, in the hopes of sharing the pros and cons of either side of the discussion...

That's known as a debate.

Sorry for having to break that to you.

I never said they were forced. Forced would imply gamers have no choice but to use them, but they most certainly are pushed by way of being presented to you as a constant option whenever you buy anything and the grind needed to buy the more expensive cars encouraging players to buy Cr and save hours of repeating the same couple of races. Yes there is a choice, but that doesn't mean PD/Sony aren't pushing them at the player and hasn't balanced the in game economy to make them appealing to the right minded.

On your final point, yes this is a discussion/debate, keep bringing your opinions forward

 

[BetelgeuzeFIN]

^ This is something I always get confused about. Since when did collecting every single car become such a big deal? A very large majority of the extremely expensive cars are things that you’re not gonna enjoy just ripping around a track for hours on end. Don’t get me wrong there will always be people who will do just that, but what’s the point of grinding all this time away and stressing over it if the reward is a car you only want because you don’t have? It’s such a small amount of cars that cause all this anger about the economy that it almost doesn’t make sense.

I was quite surprised to see that attitude with GT7 indeed. Original Gran Turismos had smaller garage than there were cars so pretty obvious that getting each one was not a purpose. I usually only buy the cars I need and LCD cars that I expect to need in the future. I don’t see myself needing most of the road cars and I simply don’t have time to extensively use all of them in any sensible way even if I had them

 

[k20_Bones]

The game actively wants, encourages and rewards you to try and collect as many cars as possible. For some people, that may expand into wanting to collect one of every car, because that would be equivalent to "beating the game" for them.

In any case, don't blame the player for wanting to actually play the game.

Encourages up to level 50, which ensures at least a 3-star ticket each day as its upside, and any acquisition beyond that gives you ZERO reward or encouragement to continue collecting. The completionist types have every right to go for every single car for that "beat the game feeling", but you are not encouraged in any way beyond the cap of collector level 50, which is achieved at around 180-200 cars (I only use this number seeing as I have 192 cars collected and I've been collector level 50 pre-engine ticket glitch).

I never blamed anyone for playing the game the way they want. However, what I did do is challenge the outlook of those willing to die on the hill of the game being designed around microtransactions. For those of us who don't share this outlook, it begs the question: Have you thought about the fact that the way you play the game is so focused on credits for LCD cars that MTX feel "Pushed" onto the player as its an easier means to an end as opposed to the grinding you force upon yourself?

How do you know exactly what other people do/do not enjoy? People get their enjoyment out of games in different ways. Just because some players may want to do something that you wouldn't doesn't mean that they're wrong for wanting to do so.

I never said I knew what others enjoy doing. Again, there is no right way/Wrong way in this game, and that's not the point I'm trying to make. My discrepancy is with those who share your outlook of pushed MTX. That being said, I'm willing to bet that when you finish that 7 or 8 hour grind session around Tokyo, and finally go pay for that 1929 Mercedes S Barker Tourer or the 1938 Alfa 8C, you're not taking it to the green hell to push for that sweet sweet sub 9 minute lap. You might cruise around Goodwood, but that's all its good for in terms of in game use.

The anger is cause by these "small number of cars" also being some of the most expensive cars in GT7, and that a frankly unreasonable time commitment is needed to get the credits necessary to purchase them. Don't forget as well that most of these types of cars are only present in a revolving-door-style dealership that, if you miss your chance to buy them, you won't have another chance to purchase said vehicle for 2 months (last I checked at least). It's also been shown that the game does indeed actively encourage players to buy MTXs to circumvent the grind, and GT7s economy is clearly designed to make this option more tempting.

That anger is unjustified IMO. The small number of cars that makeup the most extreme credit requirements to purchase are on that revolving door for around 2 weeks. That's plenty of time and if you miss it, then its not a huge deal as it gives you a goal for that next time its available. Incentivizing spending your credits wisely is just as pushed as MTX if you apply the same logic that some use when talking about MTX. Those who exclusively grind away their time playing in order to purchase those big money cars is a perfectly fine way to enjoy the game, but they shouldn't be treated as a stupidly expensive carrot on a golden stick for you to pressure yourself into gameplay you don't enjoy all because its the fastest way to get them. That mentality is what's making the MTX feel so much like, and this is your exact words, "A Temptation".

 

[Scaff]

Nowhere is it even advertised directly to the player that you can purchase credits for cars you don't have the credits for.

Ummm...

Yes, when on the purchase screen there is an option to "Top-up on the PlayStation Store",

So it is then.

But its on the bottom of the tab in small text that doesn't stand out in any way shape or form, and isn't worded in a seductive way to get you to click on it and see what they're offering.

How it is presented doesn't change the fact that it is presented, despite your claim a literal sentence ago that it isn't. You're just justifying and excusing something you claim doesn't exist!

The completionist types have every right to go for every single car for that "beat the game feeling", but you are not encouraged in any way beyond the cap of collector level 50

You mean apart from a dedicated screen that tracks the collection of every car in the game that is literally introduced to you by one of the talking heads telling you to try and collect them all!

That mentality is what's making the MTX feel so much like, and this is your exact words, "A Temptation".

That's exactly how the psychology of MTX's works, as such it's an acknowledgment that they are a part of the game's design.

But if a portion of your user base aren't interested in online play, or are apprehensive about trying it, how do you get them to try? You can't.

The majority of the user base isn't interested in online play, nor was it with GTS. It's a myth to claim otherwise.

If the solo content for the game can be grinded out in 40 hours, what is there for those players once they've golded everything and purchased every car? Nothing. They're playing something else, waiting for the next DLC.

And yet you have sim racing titles that give players access to all of the content from day one and still maintain profitable users bases for longer periods of time that GT titles manage.

 

[k20_Bones]

Ummm...


So it is then.

How it is presented doesn't change the fact that it is presented, despite your claim a literal sentence ago that it isn't. You're just justifying and excusing something you claim doesn't exist!

Jesus Christ. Does "Top up on the PlayStation store" translate to "CLICK HERE TO BUY CREDITS AND SKIP THE GRIND"? No, it doesn't. Knowing you have the ability to buy credits is you being tempted, which is very different than the game advertising the MTX the way others do such as random notifications, reminders on loading screens, % off holiday deals, and offerings of adding the exact credit amount your missing from any given purchase for an adjusted rate in order to make you feel as if its something you have to do if you really want that item and don't want to work for it. Also, true MTX pushed games give you an endless outlet to spend money on with an RNG based reward (IE loot boxes) that are only achievable from those MTX. This has nothing of the sort, so how was this a major core design if there's no gambling aspect to it?

I'm not justifying or excusing a damn thing, I'm pointing out the insane amount of unjustified anger people harbor at a system that is so easily ignored and in no way grounds for a narrative that the game is a MTX cash grab at its core.

 

[Grimm6Jack]

Ok, so the new Deep Fores is 4.250m long (GT Wiki has both at 3.600m but I knew the new one was quite a bit longer). With this I've updated the overall race distance of GT7.

...makes it a subjective view.

Changed it. Just need to find a sheet then from someone else who bothered listing the prices of every single car in the game. I think there's one out there for GT6, can't find any for GT5 though.

I never said they were forced. Forced would imply gamers have no choice but to use them, but they most certainly are pushed by way of being presented to you as a constant option whenever you buy anything and the grind needed to buy the more expensive cars encouraging players to buy Cr and save hours of repeating the same couple of races. Yes there is a choice, but that doesn't mean PD/Sony aren't pushing them at the player and hasn't balanced the in game economy to make them appealing to the right minded.

On your final point, yes this is a discussion/debate, keep bringing your opinions forward

Also, for some wild reason, free earned credits have a cap limit, while bought credits don't...