AI Exposed?

[Voodoovaj]

Excuse the novel, but I think this is cool and important to the community.

We were discussing base AI versus Sophy in another thread and that got me thinking. Is the regular AI really THAT MUCH worse than Sophy?

Before Sophy was implemented, I proposed that the entire AI was the Sophy system. Does the game REALLY have two AI systems or is it one system, implemented in different ways? I have always been skeptical of the AI being a poor design versus it being implemented to lose and in that search, I think that I have uncovered Sophy masquerading as the base AI and I offer some proof.

Here are the conditions for these races (full disclosure)

• The cars are set up exactly the same (stock, except for body variation)
• I am loading the exact same custom race file, simply different tracks
• I used tracks where Sophy is available. I tried non-Sophy tracks and this didn't happen
• 10 laps (this won't happen until you get clear at the front. 10 laps seemed sufficient. 5 laps was not)
• Tire wear and fuel are set to 1X
• Boost is off
• Grip and draft set to real
• Professional level
• I have the full race info on screen so you can see what the AI is doing, and see that there's no special straight line boost happening
• I set up my custom race with matching driver names (which is just cool )
• Also, note that the featured driver is not the only one to set a fast lap (watch the FL)

I was trying to beat these lap times, and I am confident that I could, but I didn't manage to do it within the 10 laps. Remember, this is a custom race so this AI is not labelled Sophy, but I want to reiterate that I could not repeat this on non-Sophy sanctioned tracks. I'm thinking that it's one system, and the data for all tracks isn't ready yet.

So here's the "crappy AI" beating the crap out of me

Video 1 - Mika Hakkinen embarrasses me at Grand Valley



Video 2 - Olivier Panis humbles me at Lago Maggiore



Video 3 - Lando Norris and others set the Fast Lap at Tokyo.



Video 4 - LASTLY, same race as above, Uki Tsunoda absolutely OBLITERATES the race FL

 

[Meythia]

Fullspeed straightline section:

That is not Sophy, that is default AI with its preprogrammed 95% maximum throttle input.

Yes, current GT7 Sophy is NOT faster than chilli pepper AI, and even more it can not run races in which it needs to refuel or change tyres.
It is 2 different AI agents:
1. is just added to have more cars on the track
2. is programmed to react more humanlike

 

[Voodoovaj]

Fullspeed straightline section:
View attachment 1434483

That is not Sophy, that is default AI with its preprogrammed 95% maximum throttle input.

Yes, current GT7 Sophy is NOT faster than chilli pepper AI, and even more it can not run races in which it needs to refuel or change tyres.
It is 2 different AI agents:
1. is just added to have more cars on the track
2. is programmed to react more humanlike

Sophy is limited to 3 laps and faster cars that you. What proof is there that it cannot do pit stops? Does it act differently in the "sophy" races, sure. I made no claim to the contrary. However, base AI on a Sophy track running much faster than me is cause for a closer look.

 

[Famine]

In-game Sophy isn't supposed to be faster than you outright. It's supposed to be more humanlike in wheel-to-wheel racing.

 

[Nebuc72]

I don't really understand what you're confused about. It's no secret the AI in custom races is rubber-banded to hell and back even with boost off.
All that's happening is some AI near the back of the field are have their grip boosted so they can stay closer to you.
With higher than human abilities comes lower than human laptimes.

It's the same way they've been doing AI for 20+ years. It's an identical implementation to this.

 

[Meythia]

What proof is there that it cannot do pit stops?

The devs themselves say it (to date of the video AND the way there was no Sophy agent update in the game) has not learned what tyrewear and fuel consumption is.

faster cars that you

Wasnt it possible to Gr.3 race Sophy? On Maggiore? The same track that the Human Comedy race is on?
IIrc I tried that and the Human Comedy AI was faster than Sophy.
Im sorry, Im not bothered enough to install the game and check this.

 

[Voodoovaj]

The devs themselves say it (to date of the video AND the way there was no Sophy agent update in the game) has not learned what tyrewear and fuel consumption is.

To be fair, I am pointing out there there is a difference between Sophy and non-Sophy tracks. Still, neither here nor there in my opinion.

Wasnt it possible to Gr.3 race Sophy? On Maggiore? The same track that the Human Comedy race is on?
IIrc I tried that and the Human Comedy AI was faster than Sophy.
Im sorry, Im not bothered enough to install the game and check this.

not that I have ever seen. It's just base AI at different levels of difficulty, which is my point. The videos show the base AI going respectably fast, and doing the things that many say it can't do, like pass each other.

Again, I'm no alien, but I'm not slow either. The base AI is besting me by quite a bit on, coincidentally, Sophy tracks. It doesn't do this on the other tracks.

I don't really understand what you're confused about. It's no secret the AI in custom races is rubber-banded to hell and back even with boost off.
All that's happening is some AI near the back of the field are have their grip boosted so they can stay closer to you.
With higher than human abilities comes lower than human laptimes.

It's the same way they've been doing AI for 20+ years. It's an identical implementation to this.

Except that's not at all what's happening as evidenced by the read out on the cars. It's not "boosted" with extra grip. It's allowed to match your pace. It's not at all "rubber banding". It's suppressed, and then allowed to do whatever it wants. Also, as evidenced int he video, this cars aren't anywhere near me. I'm 3-4 seconds in the lead, while the cars I highlight are deep in the back field.

This isn't the leaders catching me or anything of the sort. If I weren't watching the fast laps, I'd have no idea this was happening.

And, this throws all the narratives into the trash bin. This is what the AI can do. What we want to see is this paced allowed from the outset (at least in custom races) rather than at the back of the field where we can't enjoy it.

 

[Nebuc72]

Except that's not at all what's happening as evidenced by the read out on the cars. It's not "boosted" with extra grip. It's allowed to match your pace. It's not at all "rubber banding". It's suppressed, and then allowed to do whatever it wants. Also, as evidenced int he video, this cars aren't anywhere near me. I'm 3-4 seconds in the lead, while the cars I highlight are deep in the back field.

This isn't the leaders catching me or anything of the sort. If I weren't watching the fast laps, I'd have no idea this was happening.

And, this throws all the narratives into the trash bin. This is what the AI can do. What we want to see is this paced allowed from the outset (at least in custom races) rather than at the back of the field where we can't enjoy it.

You're watching an artifically put together grid mate. They're not meant to be actually racing you, they're just boosted to get closer to you. It's all artifical.
If you were 'racing' them at that pace you'd just find they can fly through corners with better apex speeds and exit grip than humanly possible. There's nothing sincere to it.

 

[SPDN Stefano]

Artificial intelligence doesn't exist.