AI slow down to let you win.

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Yes, they definitely do this, and they do it all the time. Just tonight in the first race of IB I decided to quantify it for once, and checked the live timing replay. The lead car slowed down by 11 seconds a lap for the last couple laps - it set a best time of 1:59, I was in a car ~100pp down and was setting 2:04s, and in the last couple laps the lead car set a 2:10. So I won. After it slowed down nicely to let me past.

Is this what we want to call racing? Why don't they just give us blue shells while we're at it?
 
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daan
I think this covers it.



Note: video is only 2 minutes long. I messed up a bit in Vegas...
Click to expand...


That happened to me in the Apricot 10 minutes "race". The two McLaren cars started in the lead and pulled out enough advantage over my Rocket to pit without losing the lead. (just).

I was easily able to keep up with them at this point. Passing the black McLaren was easy. He kept going into corners sideways. I got him under acceleration from the hairpin on the penultimate lap.

I caught up to the Fina car on the last lap, passed him cleanly into the chicane and watched him stay a respectful .5 behind me all the way to the flag!
 
This McClaren in the gt all stars got me good. He was all on my tail cause I was driving my car fairly conservatively.

I had passed him just before the last lap and he was constantly dangerously close.

I spun because of this car twice, once because he clipped me (or I hit him) right after a turn. And then later in the same spot but because how close he was was very distracting and I hit the brakes late and gassed to hard.

The whole leading group is a pain to pass in the last races.

I'm enjoying it though, very engaging.
 
I don't like winning races easily - like many of you on this thread. For the career races (I'm only up to National A), I've been using stock (or down-powered) cars with basic tyres, no aids at all, and 80pp to 160pp lower than the max allowed. And I've had a lot of easy wins, but I've also had some challenges.

My question: do you think it'd be a good idea to start a thread, something like "The make-career-races-challenging thread!" where participants can post details (PP, tyres, car model) that they've used in career races where they've actually had an exciting, challenging race (that had to be restarted multiple times before they could win, or where you come second by a narrow margin, sort of thing)?

What do you think?

I'd be willing to start it up (don't actually know how to start a thread though, can't be rocket science, I suppose)
 
I'd much prefer them just being fast(and be aware of you and actually race properly, but thats too much to ask...), so if I use a slow car and got wipe the floor with it, I just use a car with proper pace and actually race them. The whole lower PP to get more multiplier thing in GT5 doesn't work if the AI just slow down...
 
I still am not seeing this AI slowing down and let you win thing. I thought maybe it was in the lower classes but after the race I just had it sure does not seem that way. My test NB Clubman Cup Roma.

I drove the MX-5 Miata 1.8 RS, HS tires, stock no assists. Top contender in the race was the RSX
I managed to overtake the RSX in a corner on the second lap but it was faster on the straights than I was. I blocked it the first time it tried to pass but then on the final straight I did not block it to see if it would indeed let me win. It was close but he made it past me before the line and took the win. No indication that he backed off any at all and I was on the floor in the MX-5


Edit: I also had a race in the Novice section where I made contact with the leader and spun out on the second lap. They did not slow down to wait for me and I finished 3rd
 
It happened to me in a few races! If I made a mistake or spun the car & the gap was 20+ seconds with 2 laps to go, I catch the lead car in no time.

It seems as if the lead car was stuck in 2nd gear!

The strange thing is that after overtaking the lead car, suddenly that car picks up speed & even tries to overtake via slipstreaming. A classic case is the night race at Willow Springs.
 
HBR-Roadhog
I still am not seeing this AI slowing down and let you win thing. I thought maybe it was in the lower classes but after the race I just had it sure does not seem that way. My test NB Clubman Cup Roma.

I drove the MX-5 Miata 1.8 RS, HS tires, stock no assists. Top contender in the race was the RSX
I managed to overtake the RSX in a corner on the second lap but it was faster on the straights than I was. I blocked it the first time it tried to pass but then on the final straight I did not block it to see if it would indeed let me win. It was close but he made it past me before the line and took the win. No indication that he backed off any at all and I was on the floor in the MX-5


Edit: I also had a race in the Novice section where I made contact with the leader and spun out on the second lap. They did not slow down to wait for me and I finished 3rd
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They don't stop completely, so if you are far behind of corse you will lose.

But they slow down a lot if you are not close behind them after 50% of the race.

Example from last race Allstars in IB:
They start with 1:59, if you are close to the leader in 3rd lap he starts to do 1:55.
If you are still far behind because you have a slow car they will slow down to 2:10.
That is 15sec. difference between what he can do and what he does when he waits for you !

Never found it suspicious that if you make a small mistake just in front of the leader you catch him again in 3 corners ?
In reality he would be gone, you would need a few laps to come close again.

And it definitely is not better later on, in IA they still let you win.
You can win the dreamcars with a GT3 or touring car against the Group C/LMP cars.
(First 1-2 laps you loose 5sec. a lap to them but then you magically come closer although you still do the same laptimes)
You can win the GT3 championship with any GT3 easily if you not spin in every corner.
Cart race is the same, just keep driving around at whatever speed you can do without crashing/spinning, in the end they slow down and let you win.

Joke from A to Z...
 
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The strange thing is that after overtaking the lead car, suddenly that car picks up speed & even tries to overtake via slipstreaming. A classic case is the night race at Willow Springs
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It's not slipstream, once you are P1 he is allowed to drive at 100% again.
If he passes you he will slow down again to 75% or whatever until you overtake again.

Same c... as in every NFS, but even they manage to do it not that obvious and let you the illusion of being a good driver...
 
I just tried another test. Freshman Cup NB Silverstone

I took out a stock Subaru 360 on CM tires and as expected I finished dead last by a large margin 52+ seconds behind the leader who was driving a Delta and had a total race time of 3:42

I ran the same race in the MX-5 on SH tires but got a different lineup of cars, This time there was a GTO SR96 and a GTO SR95 up front.

I won easily in the MX-5 beating the GTO by almost 4 seconds. The GTOs total race time was 3:29
 
Run the 550PP World Touring Car race in IA, pick a car like the Megane Trophy race car or the Scirocco 24 Hours, watch your own lap time against AI's gap. I know for sure my fast laps in either of those car was not quite fast enough to catch the AI leader if he is going full tilt the whole race, and I think in a 5 laps race, the first 3 laps AI would actually pull away from you, and you can watch that gap drop, even if you run within 1-2 sec of your time the whole race, they would lose the 7-8 sec lead in a lap.

stb155
Same c... as in every NFS, but even they manage to do it not that obvious and let you the illusion of being a good driver...
Click to expand...

I remember the rubber banding in NFS Underground 1 or 2 or something, you could be spinning all over and you can still catch the AI and win, or you can drive a perfect race and he would be on your ass the whole time...annoyed me to no end back then, still does now in GT...
 
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I remember some serious rubber banding in Pro Street, It did not seem to matter how fast you went the AI could always somehow catch up.

I just ran Spa 24 minutes and that one was a bit of a let down, far to easy. I used the Audi R8 LMP. I do nto know Spa well so I was having some issues in the dark and wet was running 8th but then I guess the cars in front of me went into the pits and suddenly I am in first. I knew I would need to pit soon for fuel so I kept looking for the pit entrance on each lap, anyway I guess I waited to long and ran out of fuel about 1/2 - 3/4 around the track on lap 6 and had to putt along for quite a ways at very low speed, got slammed by a 908 and spun around. by the time I made it into the pits I was in 8th place again and it was starting to get light out. I did the best I could to catch up and managed to get in sight of the 1st place car with about 2 laps to go but to my surprise he went into the pits as did many of the other cars and I cruised to an easy win of over 40 seconds after spinning 3 times, driving slow during the night and running out of gas over a mile from the pits.
 
Bud I would laugh but its not even funny , the whole point of a game of this nature is to race and for the most part that element has been removed, so again I'll say what is the point ?

I will say hand on heart that I will not buy another GT game before ive read proper players reviews.
 
AI isn't faster than it was in GT5, but they are dirty mother ******* who get in your face suddenly right when you're about to overtake them and I've been decked off the track numerous times.
 
They also have a tendency to pick the worse line to pass....sometimes, when its not the last lap of the race on the dash to finish and I am not trying to block them, they come up to you on the straight, and I would be OFF LINE, and they would run straight into the back of you....I means seriously, there is like another lane width and a half on the actual racing line and they would ram you....

Maybe this explains for all the kamikaze moves that real Japanese drivers are known for....maybe thats what is considered as proper racing there....:P
 
As a bit of proof, I made a replica of my real life car yesterday (somewhere between 173-190 hp) using modest performance figures (173 hp.) I then went on to beat a Honda NSX Type-R '02... In an Impreza wagon with 173 hp. A stock Impreza with a big rear anti-roll bar, and 173 hp.



How is it possible to beat an NSX Type-R '02 with an Impreza wagon with 173 hp?!
 
To be fair, you can run a much slower car in GT5 to beat a faster AI car. That has not changed. Whats changed is that their pace is no longer consistent or constant. In GT5 if you want to do that with a car with 150pp less than the AI with much slower top speed or something, you had to drive a perfect race, not making mistake and passing them at the right spot. Now, they just slow down for you. Which takes all the fun out of doing it and if anything feels kinda condescending....If my car is too slow and really shouldn't win, don't let me win....I've spun and crashed in the Bathurst 5 laps race in the World Touring car 550PP race on the 2nd to last lap at the chicane near the end, Went from 2nd to 7th. By the last lap getting to the foot of the mountain before the climb, I am already 3rd again. And I am in a car that cannot keep up with the AI on the straight in the first 3 laps....
 
RacingManiac
To be fair, you can run a much slower car in GT5 to beat a faster AI car. That has not changed. Whats changed is that their pace is no longer consistent or constant. In GT5 if you want to do that with a car with 150pp less than the AI with much slower top speed or something, you had to drive a perfect race, not making mistake and passing them at the right spot. Now, they just slow down for you. Which takes all the fun out of doing it and if anything feels kinda condescending....If my car is too slow and really shouldn't win, don't let me win....I've spun and crashed in the Bathurst 5 laps race in the World Touring car 550PP race on the 2nd to last lap at the chicane near the end, Went from 2nd to 7th. By the last lap getting to the foot of the mountain before the climb, I am already 3rd again. And I am in a car that cannot keep up with the AI on the straight in the first 3 laps....
Click to expand...

That sums up the heart of the problem. They've always been slow (though they still were more challenging before GT5 in at least some races) but you could find your own challenge. It wasn't the way it should have been, but you could make do with it. The way GT6 works has taken every bit of challenge and every bit of racing out of the career. The rubber banding in GT5 was very subtle most of the time(to this day some people still belive there was none). In GT6 it is not only too strong but seems to be implemented in completely the wrong ways as well.

My first and so far most interesting taste of it came on the first 5-minute timed race in career. I decided on a whim to use the '97 z28 I had just bought, on comfort hards around Autumn Ring Mini which has no straights to put the power down. I spent a while getting used to the grip and wound up running the race 4 or 5 times against the same opponents, eventually shaving at least 20 seconds off my total time to the point of running an extra lap the last time. The thing was, as I constantly got faster and faster I always faced the same gaps(within a couple tenths) to the leader at nearly every point of every race. The final time I was still just as far behind first(3-4 car-lengths) at the end of the no-longer-final lap as I was the very first time.
 
The worst part is, (although I have not yet come across a license that I can't gold) that the licenses actually require a significant amount of talent... And the races just don't... Why is one part of the game so much more fun than the other? I could do license challenges all day long, because they're fun... But instead, we're bombarded with hundreds of overly simple races, and then 4-5 license tests. :(
 
Hoping that the next major update that adds B-Spec & Course Maker adds possible improvements to the AI.

Just to add what was the reason for B-Spec being delayed, would seem simple enough to add
at the beginning since there's already Bob's in the game.
 
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They had no time for it due to the many new features they gave us in career mode, the much improved races and due to the very complex and revolutionary new dynamic AI (aka Rubberband Bob).
:D
 
What's all the fuzz about? People whine if they get their behind beaten by the AI. Then people whine if the AI hands them the win on the last few corners. I had more fun passing and being passed in GT6 thus far than I had in all of GT5.

If Expert Seasonals make their return (which I doubt) people whine because they can't beat those races.

Yes AI is OTT ATM (look what I did there: TLA FTW!!!!), but the fun is back in the game. Jump in virtually any car, have a good race (which for me is plenty of overtaking), grab the win and feel like a true hero.

Doesn't beat going clubbing and getting laid afterwards though but if all the girls were like the AI in GT6, then... Well, I'm sure somebody would come up with something to complain about.
 
I ran several races in the 550 touring cars on Bathhurst this evening. All of them were decent races but I did notice that the AI was a little faster or slower in different races where my car was setup differently

1st race I was running Muscle car with SS tires to their RH tires and running 500PP to whatever they were using. The M3 race car was in all the races.

The interesting part was in race #1 my fastest lap was a high 2:24 and his was a low 2:25 after some adjustments I got my time down to a 2:21 and he got a 2:20 I put on some RH tires and pulled a low 2:15 he turned a 2:12

So yes it seems the AI drove slower when I was slower and faster when I was faster yet they did not slow down on the last lap to let me win and I only managed to win 1 of the 4 races with the SS tires and was able to win with the RH tires but not by much.

Regardless of what the AI is doing it is fun and I have been enjoying it very much.
 
How can I go 3-4 laps on Spa consistently ~18 seconds down from the leader, and then, all of a sudden in the last lap, I magically catch up completely over the course of the lap and pass the leader on the last turn, even though I'm putting in the exact same laptimes I've been putting in the whole race?

Live timing shows the lead car setting a best lap of 2:33, my best lap of 2:38, and the lead car's final lap was 2:52 - after which I beat him by .330s. A car capable of setting 2:33s should not be doing 2:52s, and a car capable of setting 2:38s should not be beating a car which can set 2:33s. This is in iB by the way, not novice.

This is utterly ridiculous. At this point it's not even a matter of the AI not being good enough, or it being difficult to program a good AI, it's a matter of the AI actively letting you win. And there is apparently no way to turn off this setting. If we can turn off skid reduction force, why can't we turn off "have all the cars stop and wait by the side of the track until you're in first place"?

What the hell is the point of calling this a racing game if the AI literally stops to wait for you?

edit: and a bonus one, how ridiculous is it that you can be in an underpowered car on a straight, give the AI plenty of room, he catches up to you at a high rate of speed without needing a draft to do so, and then when he gets up beside you, he suddenly stops and refuses to pass you despite the fact that you're staying totally straight and have given him plenty of room? This happens very often (not always, but often). It's seriously ridiculous kid-glove crap.
 
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I think PD wants to make this game easier to new comers, but they seem to have forgotten about the veterans who have been with the series for a long time.

I am really frustrated with the A.I. as well man.

If PD wants to make the game easier for newcomers, they should have a setting at the very beginning of the game allowing you to choose your difficulty. Beginner, Intermidiate, and Advanced, then program the A.I. accordingly.
 

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