America - The Official Thread

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I frequently dog Canada, but that's almost exclusively in jest. I like Canada. Despite living closer to the Mexican border, I've probably visited Canada ten times for every Mexican visit.

I still wouldn't want to live in Canada.

I love my country even as I don't love everything about it.
 
The US has not crossed that threshold for me yet. But I'm not going to pretend that it's impossible. There are circumstances which I'm not prepared to tolerate.
I've been trying to tell you - for years - that the United States of America has a deeply flawed political system. Other countries also have deeply flawed political systems, but at least they are not beholden to a constitution established 250 years ago, by a small number of white men, in circumstances completely different from what exist today. Today, you have a group of "conservative" justices, nominated & confirmed by a undemocratic process that are making decisions based on an "originalist" interpretation of that 250 year old constitution. I'm baffled why anyone would think that's reasonable.
 
I've been trying to tell you - for years - that the United States of America has a deeply flawed political system. Other countries also have deeply flawed political systems, but at least they are not beholden to a constitution established 250 years ago, by a small number of white men, in circumstances completely different from what exist today. Today, you have a group of "conservative" justices, nominated & confirmed by a undemocratic process that are making decisions based on an "originalist" interpretation of that 250 year old constitution. I'm baffled why anyone would think that's reasonable.

Our justices today are not making decisions based on "originalist" interpretation. They're making up rationale to support other motives. That's as true of Sotomayor as it is Thomas.

I have no idea why you keep coming back to me as some kind of purveyor of the idea that the American political system has no flaws. I routinely point those flaws out here on this site. No country can withstand a lack of will to protect the rights of its citizens - regardless of the political system. The US has demonstrated that as clearly as possible in recent years. It simply does not matter what protections you put in place, or what the law says. If you lack the will to protect those institutions, they will fail.

A big portion of the American people (my parents included) have lost the will to protect the basic safeguards put in place to prevent autocracy and protect the rights of citizens, and that is being reflected at the highest levels of our political system. The reason our supreme court is composed as it is today, is precisely because enough lost the will to honor the political safeguards for the supreme court as an institution. It does not matter what system is in place, it can be trampled by people who are willing to look the other way. This is true in all countries.
 
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The US has not crossed that threshold for me yet. But I'm not going to pretend that it's impossible. There are circumstances which I'm not prepared to tolerate.
Would you share what those circumstances are?
 
I have no idea why you keep coming back to me as some kind of purveyor of the idea that the American political system has no flaws.
Because you insisted on that idea in multiple posts - frustratingly insisted against all the evidence - back in the day: the US Constitution was perfect according to you. Admittedly, that may seem like a long time ago to you, but I've never heard you explicitly reject that point of view.

The overthrow of Roe vs Wade is the ultimate vindication of the Trump supporters who were "thanking Jesus" for President Trump. However, disgusting and venal Trump may be, he brought them the Supreme Court that ended abortion rights in the US.

It will be interesting to see what effect this has on the Mid-Terms. Is it possible that it could undermine the Republicans chances to win majorities in the House and Senate?
 
Because you insisted on that idea in multiple posts - frustratingly insisted against all the evidence - back in the day: the US Constitution was perfect according to you.

I don't believe I ever held that view. The people who wrote the constitution did not hold that view. Feel free to quote me.

Admittedly, that may seem like a long time ago to you, but I've never heard you explicitly reject that point of view.

I reject it.

Edit:

This is me 13 years ago.

Yes, the constitution was not perfect when it was written (the people writing it attempted to make this point abundantly clear). The Amendment that I cited was written after the American civil war - so you can see why it was needed.

For context, that's me at age 41 quoting myself at age 28.
 
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It will be interesting to see what effect this has on the Mid-Terms. Is it possible that it could undermine the Republicans chances to win majorities in the House and Senate?
Not a chance. The Democrats knew this was coming the day Ginsburg died. They've effectively done nothing to try to stop it since. They'll stamp their feet for 6 months about this as constituents grow increasingly tired of their incompetence and vote Republican just to get those specific Democrats in Congress out; and the bloodbath they've wrought on themselves will likely be so thorough that I can see Republicans getting a supermajority in both houses.




Even if the GOP don't, I can still easily see McConnell's first act being to throw out the filibuster entirely just to get the full sweep of pet projects he's been biding his time over since Obama got in office. Obamacare will be completely removed (assuming he doesn't just force it to the Supreme Court again, since this court will make up any excuse to reverse anything that they aren't interested in being in place anymore). Abortion will be nationally prohibited. I wouldn't hold too much stock in same-sex marriages lasting. And why not? He's consistently proven how effective he is at outmaneuvering the entire Democrat party at even basic party platforms while they waffle about infighting each other over stupid 🤬 and simply assuming that Republicans will play by the same rules; so he probably knows that even if they lose filibuster protection for future election cycles the Democrats won't get any consensus to reverse anything he does no matter how unpopular. And then the Democrats will lose again because they'll have another congressional cycle where they spend the entire time fighting each other.
 
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Not a chance. The Democrats knew this was coming the day Ginsburg died. They've effectively done nothing to try to stop it since. They'll stamp their feet for 6 months about this as constituents grow increasingly tired of their incompetence and vote Republican just to get those specific Democrats in Congress out; and the bloodbath they've wrought on themselves will likely be so thorough that I can see Republicans getting a supermajority in both houses.




Even if the GOP don't, I can still easily see McConnell's first act being to throw out the filibuster entirely just to get the full sweep of pet projects he's been biding his time over since Obama got in office. Obamacare will be completely removed (assuming he doesn't just force it to the Supreme Court again, since this court will make up any excuse to reverse anything that they aren't interested in being in place anymore). Abortion will be nationally prohibited. I wouldn't hold too much stock in same-sex marriages lasting. And why not? He's consistently proven how effective he is at outmaneuvering the entire Democrat party at even basic party platforms while they waffle about infighting each other over stupid 🤬 and simply assuming that Republicans will play by the same rules; so he probably knows that even if they lose filibuster protection for future election cycles the Democrats won't get any consensus to reverse anything he does no matter how unpopular. And then the Democrats will lose again because they'll have another congressional cycle where they spend the entire time fighting each other.
Do you think McConnell/SCOTUS would be stupid enough to try and play around with the Civil Rights Act? We've already seen ACB cares more about her religion than her neighbor and we know Thomas is extremely corrupt.
 
Do you think McConnell/SCOTUS would be stupid enough to try and play around with the Civil Rights Act?
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The Democrats knew this was coming the day Ginsburg died.
And to think, this could've all been avoided if Ginsburg had retired when Obama asked her to or if the Democrats had run even a slightly more palatable candidate in 2016. We could also quit electing old people who've been in politics so long that they're completely out of touch with the average American. I mean how is Biden, a man who's been in politics for nearly 50 years, the right person to understand what the average American goes through? His whole career has been dictated by the highest bidder.

It's remarkable how Democrats continue to shoot themselves in the foot over and over again. It should be easy for the Democrats to win a majority in most national elections but because they can't decide what sort of party they are, they lose the independent voter. Meanwhile, the Republicans continue to crank out rhetoric while just raking in the money.
 
I mean she retires earlier in Obama's presidency, Obama replaces her with a younger and/or healthier justice, and Trump doesn't get to nominate Amy Coney Barrett. That puts the split at 5-4 instead of 6-3. Roberts seemed pretty iffy on fully overturning Roe v. Wade and with a closer margin, he probably would've looked for more of a middle ground by limiting abortion rights instead of getting rid of it completely.*

Honestly, looking back over the past decade or so, Democrats and liberals more or less handed this decision to Republicans and conservatives on a platter.

*I'll leave it up because I wrote it, but I was looking at the breakdown of the Mississippi ban instead of the Roe overturning with the vote. Get rid of Coney Barret, and Roe v. Wade now likely has a 4-5 vote.
 
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I mean she retires earlier in Obama's presidency, Obama replaces her with a younger and/or healthier justice, and Trump doesn't get to nominate Amy Coney Barrett. That puts the split at 5-4 instead of 6-3. Roberts seemed pretty iffy on fully overturning Roe v. Wade and with a closer margin, he probably would've looked for more of a middle ground by limiting abortion rights instead of getting rid of it completely.*

Honestly, looking back over the past decade or so, Democrats and liberals more or less handed this decision to Republicans and conservatives on a platter.

*I'll leave it up because I wrote it, but I was looking at the breakdown of the Mississippi ban instead of the Roe overturning with the vote. Get rid of Coney Barret, and Roe v. Wade now likely has a 4-5 vote.
The math isn't lost on me. I'm still stuck on RBG vacating a seat when asked. She was fit to serve on the Court until she wasn't.

It's more apparent now than ever that the Court is a political body, but I don't approve of anything that reaffirms the notion. I didn't approve of RBG being asked to vacate her seat. I especially didn't approve of Breyer being asked to vacate his seat as I believe him to be an asset to the Court itself regardless of political or judicial ideology.

This happened solely because a majority of Justices rejected the right of bodily integrity as a result of religious and political zealotry.
 
Do you think McConnell/SCOTUS would be stupid enough to try and play around with the Civil Rights Act?
Last year they basically threw the Voting Rights Act in the trash and the reasoning the court gave for doing so was essentially because Trump lost the election.







Why wouldn't they?
 
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The math isn't lost on me. I'm still stuck on RBG vacating a seat when asked. She was fit to serve on the Court until she wasn't.

It's more apparent now than ever that the Court is a political body, but I don't approve of anything that reaffirms the notion. I didn't approve of RBG being asked to vacate her seat. I especially didn't approve of Breyer being asked to vacate his seat as I believe him to be an asset to the Court itself regardless of political or judicial ideology.

This happened solely because a majority of Justices rejected the right of bodily integrity as a result of religious and political zealotry.
The Supreme Court should be apolitical. However, it hasn't been apolitical in a long time and it certainly wasn't during Obama's term. RGB had been around long enough to know this and if you look back through the recent voting trends in the US, there was a good chance that a Republican was going to follow Obama due to the back-and-forth nature of presidential swings.

I agree, justices should be in place until they retire or die since that's the way it's supposed to work via the Constitution. Unfortunately, politicians are really good at completely ignoring the framework of our government. Now you have Congress going so far as to drag their feet with nominees or railroad them through with little thought. That's not how it's supposed to work, but the people that could do something about it won't.
 
The Supreme Court should be apolitical. However, it hasn't been apolitical in a long time and it certainly wasn't during Obama's term. RGB had been around long enough to know this and if you look back through the recent voting trends in the US, there was a good chance that a Republican was going to follow Obama due to the back-and-forth nature of presidential swings.

I agree, justices should be in place until they retire or die since that's the way it's supposed to work via the Constitution. Unfortunately, politicians are really good at completely ignoring the framework of our government. Now you have Congress going so far as to drag their feet with nominees or railroad them through with little thought. That's not how it's supposed to work, but the people that could do something about it won't.
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If you truly believe the Court should be apolitical, there are no caveats. Not one. The suggestion that Ginsburg vacate her seat when her place in it isn't a detriment (I'm talking about mental and physical faculties being compromised and not mere advanced age and the concern that she may croak when the "other guys" get to choose her replacement--the latter being especially odd from someone who frequently insists people should vote for a third party) is counter to the idea that the Court should be apolitical. That the Court isn't apolitical isn't justification for political maneuvering if you believe the Court should be apolitical.
 
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If you truly believe the Court should be apolitical, there are no caveats. Not one. The suggestion that Ginsburg vacate her seat when her place in it isn't a detriment (I'm talking about mental and physical faculties being compromised and not mere advanced age and the concern that she may croak when the "other guys" get to choose her replacement--the latter being especially odd from someone who frequently insists people should vote for a third party) is counter to the idea that the Court should be apolitical. That the Court isn't apolitical isn't justification for political maneuvering if you believe the Court should be apolitical.
How I think the court should function, how the framers of the Constitution intended it to work, and how the court currently functions are different. While I think the court should be apolitical, I recognize it isn't and if one side "plays the game" so to speak while the other doesn't you end up with what happened today. RGB should've recognized the game, Obama certainly recognized it and was attempting to outplay the other side. RGB refused and in doing so it came at the cost of Roe v. Wade being overturned. Either RGB was naive in thinking that the Republicans could be trusted or she was stubborn and wouldn't do something for the good of the party.

Older justices need to retire when their preferred party is in power, otherwise, the other side is just going to capitalize on it. Even though it shouldn't work this way, it needs to work this way because that's the game politicians have created for themselves. And even if the Democrats decide they want to stick with principals and attempt to make it work the way it should work, it's all meaningless if the other side doesn't care. You know as well as I do that Republicans don't give a damn about the Constitution, founding principles, or really anything other than fleecing money out of their base by spouting BS.
 
How I think the court should function, how the framers of the Constitution intended it to work, and how the court currently functions are different. While I think the court should be apolitical, I recognize it isn't and if one side "plays the game" so to speak while the other doesn't you end up with what happened today. RGB should've recognized the game, Obama certainly recognized it and was attempting to outplay the other side. RGB refused and in doing so it came at the cost of Roe v. Wade being overturned. Either RGB was naive in thinking that the Republicans could be trusted or she was stubborn and wouldn't do something for the good of the party.

Older justices need to retire when their preferred party is in power, otherwise, the other side is just going to capitalize on it. Even though it shouldn't work this way, it needs to work this way because that's the game politicians have created for themselves. And even if the Democrats decide they want to stick with principals and attempt to make it work the way it should work, it's all meaningless if the other side doesn't care. You know as well as I do that Republicans don't give a damn about the Constitution, founding principles, or really anything other than fleecing money out of their base by spouting BS.
Yes, I recognize that Republicans lack principles. I don't. I'd wager RBG didn't either, and I recognize she was an incredibly intelligent woman and recognized that Republicans lack principles, but I think she also had a respect for the institution that Republicans do not and Obama did not when asking her to vacate her seat. **** the party.

I desperately want Democrats to be better a better counter to Republicans but I don't want them to stoop as low to do so. I believe it's possible by governing better and, more importantly, not treating Republicans as if they're acting in good faith, because they're not...ever. I don't know how much better a counter they would be to Republicans if they did these things and I don't imagine we'll find out.
 
Politically speaking the overturning of Roe v. Wade is terrible for Republicans.

I said a while ago, I have no dog in this fight. Some of you might realize how true that statement was after my more recent posts.

The midterms were pretty much a sure thing for the Republicans before this decision. Now I am not so sure.
 
"You can tell I don't have a dog in this race because I was compelled to accuse someone of lying when I simply couldn't grasp what they were saying."
 
Politically speaking the overturning of Roe v. Wade is terrible for Republicans.

I said a while ago, I have no dog in this fight. Some of you might realize how true that statement was after my more recent posts.

The midterms were pretty much a sure thing for the Republicans before this decision. Now I am not so sure.
I hope your suspicions are not unfounded.
 
It's literally only a matter of time before one of those ****ing goons just starts dropping full-on slurs against all the people they want as 2nd class citizens.
 
It's literally only a matter of time before one of those ****ing goons just starts dropping full-on slurs against all the people they want as 2nd class citizens.
Before the end of the year, along with the initial attempts at rolling back interracial marriage.
 
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