America - The Official Thread

[Zona]

Suspect in connection with a mass shooting at July 4th parade in Highland Park, Illinois, has been taken into custody | CNN

Robert E. Crimo III, the suspect in a mass shooting at a parade that left six dead and sent more than two dozen people to hospitals, has been taken into custody near Lake Forest, Illinois, authorities said during a brief news conference Monday night.

www.cnn.com

There was a mass shooting in Highland Park, IL, an affluent northern suburb. 6 people were killed and over 20 we're wounded. The shooter used a high powered rifle from a rooftop.

The police have recently captured a person of interest.

Yet another mass shooting committed by a mentally ill 18-21 year old. America needs to stop allowing guns to fall into the hands of these people and spend more $$$ on mental health care.

 

[Dennisch]

Over a million signatures. For what it’s worth 🤔


View attachment 1169148

If you want to get **** done, you go to the streets with a million people. This does nothing.

 

[Liquid]

The President should appear on national TV and just outright say "Too many people in this country love guns more than children and people". Because that's the sick truth about the United States.

thoughts_prayers_and_inaction.txt

 

[Blitz24]

When an Australian baseball player knows a lot more than half of elected American politicians.


It's easier to get a gun than it is to get a driver's license (or get a car), yet how many more safety provisions do we have to protect people from motorists than we do to protect people from guns?

 

[Northstar]

If you want to get **** done, you go to the streets with a million people. This does nothing.

It would probably also help if we stopped electing old white guys.

 

[Danoff]

And Biden still needs to do something about them.

What, exactly? There is nothing to be done here. These people are beholden to republicans. It has to do with the demographic makeup of their constituents. I'm sure if it were Trump he'd accuse them of treason or suggest they should be executed, but I mean within the realm of the sane there is nothing to be done.

Edit:

On abortion, most people wouldn't like the only thing they can do, which is to try to pass a bi-partisan federal abortion regulation that gets 60 votes in the senate and breaks the filibuster. It would be much more stringent than roe, and would curtail abortion rights in many states. It might ease up regulations in some states, but it would ultimately roll back freedom at a national level. I'm not sure that's such a good idea, but it's the only avenue I can see at the moment.

Even if Manchin were willing to suspend the filibuster, which he is not, he's not in favor of codifying Roe.

 

[Joey D]

What, exactly? There is nothing to be done here. These people are beholden to republicans.

I'm not sure, but I have to imagine something can be done and I'm not convinced that there's no way forward. Biden, for better or worse, has been in politics a really long time and should know how to navigate its intricacies when it comes to quid pro quo. Schumer has been around long enough too so he should understand the same political game as well.

At the very least, I'd like the Democrats to at least make it appear that they are doing something to address Manchin and Sinema. Right now though, it seems like Manchin and Sinema are basically acting without any consequences. There might be some, but it's not exactly at the forefront and it's not like the average voter sees it. Look at how Trump ran and still runs, the Republican Party. If you don't fall in line you've committed political suicide. While that approach is heavy-handed, maybe the Democrats need to think about it so they can get stuff done. Otherwise, they're just going to let Republicans take control and dismantle people's rights.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

high capacity magazine, semi auto, rifle caliber.

 

[Danoff]

I'm not sure, but I have to imagine something can be done and I'm not convinced that there's no way forward. Biden, for better or worse, has been in politics a really long time and should know how to navigate its intricacies when it comes to quid pro quo. Schumer has been around long enough too so he should understand the same political game as well.

At the very least, I'd like the Democrats to at least make it appear that they are doing something to address Manchin and Sinema. Right now though, it seems like Manchin and Sinema are basically acting without any consequences.

That's because if they'll be re-elected, they'll be re-elected for their ability to avoid the democrat agenda. The only real consequence they seem to care about is re-election (at least as best I can tell). And the way they get re-elected is by not working with democrats on anything that isn't essentially a republican priority.

Look at how Trump ran and still runs, the Republican Party. If you don't fall in line you've committed political suicide.

Trump is not an example of a good president or politician. I wouldn't want to see Biden use his tactics. That was the whole point of getting rid of Trump.

Otherwise, they're just going to let Republicans take control and dismantle people's rights.

Republican voters have control of the senate because they control the the fate of Manchin and, to a lesser extent, Sinema. It's not democrats who are "letting republicans take control" but rather voters, and to some extent the supreme court, which is allowing a variety of means to stack democratic elections.

 

[Populuxe]

I'm not sure, but I have to imagine something can be done and I'm not convinced that there's no way forward. Biden, for better or worse, has been in politics a really long time and should know how to navigate its intricacies when it comes to quid pro quo. Schumer has been around long enough too so he should understand the same political game as well.

It’s true. Both have been in the political game a long time. And when they began, negotiating and quid pro quo was how you got things done. But Republicans no longer negotiate. They hold hostages. For some reason, maybe because they’re actually decent people, Biden, Harris, Schumer and Pelosi think they can still negotiate with Republicans. They can’t. Republicans would rather shoot the hostage than negotiate with Democrats. Modern republicans don’t accept, or even understand, the win-win scenario. They believe that for themselves to win, someone else must lose. And vice versa. If Democrats win, then Republicans must have lost. This is Trump’s core philosophy, but’s it’s been a part of the GOP even before the big orange buffoon was elected. Biden et al need to understand Republicans will never sign on to anything with the Democrats, and start getting things done without them.

 

[Danoff]

and start getting things done without them.

They cannot. Which is why nothing gets done. Republicans have enough control over the Senate (including over Manchin and Sinema) that they can effectively stonewall.

 

[Blitz24]

It might be time to consider term limits on Congress and the House since there doesn't seem to be any desire to do anything once they are elected to seats.

 

[Danoff]

It might be time to consider term limits on Congress and the House since there doesn't seem to be any desire to do anything once they are elected to seats.

If we're imposing term limits, let's do it on the supreme court.

 

[Joey D]

That's because if they'll be re-elected, they'll be re-elected for their ability to avoid the democrat agenda. The only real consequence they seem to care about is re-election (at least as best I can tell). And the way they get re-elected is by not working with democrats on anything that isn't essentially a republican priority.

Then that's what the Democrats need to target. I'm not sure Manchin nor Sinema could be reelected without the financial support of Democrats. While they do support Republican policies more often than not, they're still not Republicans and I can't see the GOP embracing either of them with open arms since they're more or less just pawns. The GOP will cast them aside without a moment's hesitation if they decided to leave the Democratic party.

The Democrats, in theory at least, could put their support behind a very moderate and centrist Democrat to challenge both Manchin and Sinema in the primaries. Chances are if either were ousted in the primary a Republican would probably go on to win the seat in the Senate, but they more or less have those seats right now with Sinema and Manchin stonewalling most things.

Like I said, I'd rather the Democrats not do anything under most circumstances, but we're rapidly approaching a critical juncture that will require them to do something. Not even attempting to put Manchin or Sinema's feet to the fire is just letting the Republicans win.

Trump is not an example of a good president or politician. I wouldn't want to see Biden use his tactics. That was the whole point of getting rid of Trump.

Agreed, Trump was terrible at being a politician and a president. However, he was and is masterful at igniting the base and controlling the party. The Democrats can do it too while not being Trumpian in nature. Obama was excellent at getting the base on board with things and, for the most part, kept the party in line without resorting to an attempted coup.

Republican voters have control of the senate because they control the the fate of Manchin and, to a lesser extent, Sinema. It's not democrats who are "letting republicans take control" but rather voters, and to some extent the supreme court, which is allowing a variety of means to stack democratic elections.

I guess I don't know, do Republican voters vote for Machin and Sinema? I would guess that they don't because they're still Democrats and it's very much in a Republican's wheelhouse to think that any Democrat is more or less satan. I don't know enough about West Virginia or Arizona to say for sure, are they more centrist on the political spectrum?

 

[Danoff]

Then that's what the Democrats need to target. I'm not sure Manchin nor Sinema could be reelected without the financial support of Democrats. While they do support Republican policies more often than not, they're still not Republicans and I can't see the GOP embracing either of them with open arms since they're more or less just pawns. The GOP will cast them aside without a moment's hesitation if they decided to leave the Democratic party.

The Democrats, in theory at least, could put their support behind a very moderate and centrist Democrat to challenge both Manchin and Sinema in the primaries. Chances are if either were ousted in the primary a Republican would probably go on to win the seat in the Senate, but they more or less have those seats right now with Sinema and Manchin stonewalling most things.

There are still advantages to having a technical majority, even if you can't get your entire legislative agenda through. I mean, I actually kindof agree with your point here. That letting those seats flip republican is not a ton worse than keeping them democrat and having a majority. I'm not thrilled with the idea of seeing what a republican majority in the Senate does with Biden as President.

But to me this argument just comes down to optics. Neither a republican majority nor a democrat majority with Sinema and Manchin are going to get the agenda that you said you wanted to see done accomplished. But it seems like you'd be happy for it to be a republican majority not getting it done, because then it makes more sense than to see a democrat majority not get it done. Those optics come with some consequences.

Like I said, I'd rather the Democrats not do anything under most circumstances, but we're rapidly approaching a critical juncture that will require them to do something.

We require something to be done. But the minority has a lot of control.

Not even attempting to put Manchin or Sinema's feet to the fire is just letting the Republicans win.

It's been attempted, and unsuccessful.

Agreed, Trump was terrible at being a politician and a president. However, he was and is masterful at igniting the base and controlling the party.

Via means that undermine democracy and the institutions of the country.

The Democrats can do it too while not being Trumpian in nature.

I'd like to hear an example of how.

Obama was excellent at getting the base on board with things and, for the most part, kept the party in line without resorting to an attempted coup.

Yet Obama had a lot of trouble with many of these same issues. And Obama didn't have the unfortunate burden of being president after one party attempted to seize control of the country.

I guess I don't know, do Republican voters vote for Machin and Sinema?

Their re-election prospects depend upon their ability to be seen as safe. If they're going up against a radical republican, they have a shot at winning - in part because they've been so good at blocking everything being attempted nationally.

I would guess that they don't because they're still Democrats and it's very much in a Republican's wheelhouse to think that any Democrat is more or less satan. I don't know enough about West Virginia or Arizona to say for sure, are they more centrist on the political spectrum?

At the moment, Manchin is one of the more popular senators among republican voters. I'd wager that if I asked my dad (hardline trumper) which he prefers, Manchin or Romney, he'd go Manchin. He has mentioned Manchin to me on many occasions as being an example of a "good democrat". The point is that republican voters like senators that are a thorn in the side of the democrats. Manchin's re-election chances hinge on the left not voting, getting the middle (including a bit swath of the right), and leaving a small extreme group to vote for a republican opponent. He's not worried about losing the left, because they're not going to vote for his opponent.

Passing whatever it is you want him to pass just isn't in his best interest for the most part. If some group (say 10) republicans in the senate don't agree, he's not interested. Because those 10 republicans represent the people on the right within his state that he's counting on.

 

[Liquid]

If, as I have read, Governor De Santis of Florida has signed a law making academics and students register their political beliefs, how is this not straight out of the Soviet Union playbook? The intelligentsia are intentionally being marginalised.

Republicans want a USSA and the mask slips further and further with each passing day.

 

[DK]

Yet another mass shooting committed by a mentally ill 18-21 year old. America needs to stop allowing guns to fall into the hands of these people and spend more $$$ on mental health care.

Don't you understand that means higher taxes?

 

[Zona]

Don't you understand that means higher taxes?

Legalize weed nation wide and tax the **** outta that

 

[GBO Possum]

Also tax guns at 1,000% so that only rich people can afford to perform mass shootings. /s

"A Democratic lawmaker has introduced a bill designed to curb sales of semi-automatic weapons like AR-15s, the type of firearm used by both shooters in the massacres in Uvalde and Buffalo last month. If passed, the legislation would impose a 1,000% tax on any type of semi-automatic weapon, making the firearms prohibitively expensive for most would-be buyers."

Lawmaker introduces bill to impose 1,000% tax on semi-automatic weapons

Weapon used by alleged Uvalde shooter would sell for $18,700 if the bill is passed, instead of its retail price of $1,870.

www.cbsnews.com

 

[Danoff]

Also tax guns at 1,000% so that only rich people can afford to perform mass shootings. /s

"A Democratic lawmaker has introduced a bill designed to curb sales of semi-automatic weapons like AR-15s, the type of firearm used by both shooters in the massacres in Uvalde and Buffalo last month. If passed, the legislation would impose a 1,000% tax on any type of semi-automatic weapon, making the firearms prohibitively expensive for most would-be buyers."

Lawmaker introduces bill to impose 1,000% tax on semi-automatic weapons

Weapon used by alleged Uvalde shooter would sell for $18,700 if the bill is passed, instead of its retail price of $1,870.

www.cbsnews.com

Any type of semi-auto weapon?

 

[UKMikey]

I thought they were going to tax the ammunition like in the Chris Rock routine.

 

[Joey D]

But to me this argument just comes down to optics. Neither a republican majority nor a democrat majority with Sinema and Manchin are going to get the agenda that you said you wanted to see done accomplished. But it seems like you'd be happy for it to be a republican majority not getting it done, because then it makes more sense than to see a democrat majority not get it done. Those optics come with some consequences.

The optics of it now are pretty bad though and it's certainly going to fuel Republican reelection campaigns because they can point to the Democrats and say "see they're a fractured party". And while that would be hypocritical because the Republicans are fractured too, it's not something the Democrats need. Plus, without being able to really pass anything, the Democrats have a really long road ahead for the mid-terms.

As for wanting a Republican majority? Man, I don't know. The way it stands right now is bad, but having a Republican majority would be just as bad. I think the only saving grace to having a Republican majority is if Manchin and Sinema's seats were flipped. While not ideal, it would at least mean they had consequences for their inactions. Ideally, I'd want more representation in Congress with 3 or 4 parties holding some power and none of them holding the majority. That would force them to work together on some level. Right now it's too easy for either side to be ineffective.

I'd like to hear an example of how.

The Democrats are far from united. Corporate Democrats don't like Progressives, Democratic Socialists don't like Corporate Democrats, and so on. All one needs to do is look at how Bernie supporters were and are viewed among more moderate Democrats. They believe that Bernie somehow cost Clinton the election in 2016, when that's likely not the case at all. The party needs to do a better job getting its constituents onboard with one common goal. The Republicans did it through election fraud, but the Democrats could do it through something that's actually happening and not completely asinine. Abortion rights would be a good start since it's fresh in everyone's mind and doesn't dip into the Corporate Democrat's pockets.

===

As for your other points, I get what you're saying and it does make sense. I'm just having a hard time believing nothing can be done about Manchin and Sinema. While I don't exactly follow the Democrat's every word, it doesn't appear that they really are doing anything. I know Biden has had meetings with them, but other than that I'm not sure what's been done because it hasn't really been at the forefront of any discussions. The party pretty much needs to come out and say "abortion rights are being taken away because Manchin and Sinema are allowing them to". And that might only be to save their own skin in November because an Independent voter who votes Democrat more often than not might choose to vote Republican this time because things are going south for the country in a hurry.

 

[Danoff]

The party pretty much needs to come out and say "abortion rights are being taken away because Manchin and Sinema are allowing them to".

I think that was the point of forcing Manchin to publicly vote against codifying roe, which he did.

 

[GBO Possum]

Ideally, I'd want more representation in Congress with 3 or 4 parties holding some power and none of them holding the majority. That would force them to work together on some level. Right now it's too easy for either side to be ineffective.

Exactly. Which is why we need Ranked Choice Voting, or as others have called it, Preferential Voting. It's the key to lowering the barrier to entry for minor parties. Which is also why both Republicans and Democrats fight against it, and try to keep the voters dumb enough so they regard it as "too complicated".

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

Highland Park Parade Shooting: 7th Victim Identified in Fourth of July Tragedy

Emotions, prayer and calls for action against gun violence poured out during a vigil Tuesday night, a day after a gunman opened fire at Highland Park’s Fourth of July Parade killing at least seven and injuring more than 40 others.

www.nbcchicago.com

The mass shooting happened less than three years after police went to the suspect's home following a call from a family member who said he was threatening “to kill everyone” there.

At that time, Sgt. Covelli said police confiscated 16 knives, a dagger and a sword, but said there was no sign he had any guns at the time, in September 2019.

Police in April 2019 also responded to a reported suicide attempt by the suspect, Covelli said.

The suspect legally purchased the rifle used in the attack in Illinois within the past year, Covelli said. In all, police said, he purchased five firearms, which were recovered by officers at his father’s home.

Illinois state police, who issue gun owners’ licenses, said the gunman applied for a license in December 2019, when he was 19. His father sponsored his application.

At the time "there was insufficient basis to establish a clear and present danger" and deny the application, state police said in a statement.

State police say that the suspect passed a series of background checks, and no criminal charges aside from a citation for possession of tobacco by a minor were found on his record.

That sounds like sufficient basis to me. We have the benefit of hindsight. But if someone threatened to kill someone and then police also responded to a suicide attempt, that seems like a good indicator that person should not be allowed to purchase a gun. And the father sponsored the application.

 

[UKMikey]

Somebody blew up the Georgia Guidestones.

 

[Blitz24]

Per Wikipedia, this is what the guidestones read in 8 languages:

1. Maintain humanity under 500,000,000 in perpetual balance with nature.
2. Guide reproduction wisely — improving fitness and diversity.
3. Unite humanity with a living new language.
4. Rule passion — faith — tradition — and all things with tempered reason.
5. Protect people and nations with fair laws and just courts.
6. Let all nations rule internally resolving external disputes in a world court.
7. Avoid petty laws and useless officials.
8. Balance personal rights with social duties.
9. Prize truth — beauty — love — seeking harmony with the infinite.
10. Be not a cancer on the Earth — Leave room for nature — Leave room for nature.

Clearly the Republicans (or religious fundamentalists/anarchists using the Republicans as pawns) do not like the 7th item and had to blow it up to prevent Satan or something.

 

[DK]

Alternatively, Karen felt that 10th item was calling her out for owning an SUV.

 

[UKMikey]

Alternatively, Karen felt that 10th item was calling her out for owning an SUV.

Oh crap, Karen has explosives now?!

 

[Pupik]

Probably the work of the local Mal-iban.