America - The Official Thread

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playnthru
Every cop that covers up for a fellow officer has committed a crime. When people decide to accept that fact the thousands of "good officers" theory is void.

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How does this the fact that hundreds of thousands of officers also hit the street the same day and did a fine job? Hint: It doesn't. The cop in this video is guilty of destroying her property and some degree of assault. He deserves to be dealt with the same as any other criminal. Doesn't change the fact that you can't paint everyone with the same brush because a handful out of hundreds of thousands act irresponsibly and sometimes criminally. What would be more surprising would be if there wasn't a single bad cop in the entire country.

Every cop in this video is guilty by law.
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Wrong. No one is guilty until they are brought before a judge and/or jury to answer for their crimes. See: The Sixth Amendment
 
Johnnypenso
How does this the fact that hundreds of thousands of officers also hit the street the same day and did a fine job? Hint: It doesn't. The cop in this video is guilty of destroying her property and some degree of assault. He deserves to be dealt with the same as any other criminal. Doesn't change the fact that you can't paint everyone with the same brush because a handful out of hundreds of thousands act irresponsibly and sometimes criminally. What would be more surprising would be if there wasn't a single bad cop in the entire country.

Wrong. No one is guilty until they are brought before a judge and/or jury to answer for their crimes. See: The Sixth Amendment
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If you are considering the cops who turn their back and do nothing among the thousands that "do a fine job" then… It shows exactly what happens when cops are left to police themselves, nothing. They won't unless forced to.

"Convicted of" is not the only measure of guilt. If you want to argue silly semantics, whatever.:rolleyes: The proof in this video would be enough to convict any American citizen. The fact these are cops and will likely get away with it does not make them innocent. It only shows how the system corrupt.

Its about the fact that covering up a crime, is a crime! If a cop covers for a fellow officer he has also broken the law. It can make a entire police department guilty of a criminal act…
 
playnthru
If you are considering the cops who turn their back and do nothing among the thousands that "do a fine job" then… It shows exactly what happens when cops are left to police themselves, nothing. They won't unless forced to.

"Convicted of" is not the only measure of guilt. If you want to argue silly semantics, whatever.:rolleyes: The proof in this video would be enough to convict any American citizen. The fact these are cops and will likely get away with it does not make them innocent. It only shows how the system corrupt.

Its about the fact that covering up a crime, is a crime! If a cop covers for a fellow officer he has also broken the law. It can make a entire police department guilty of a criminal act…
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Clearly you didn't understand what I said because I never said the officer in this video was innocent. You seem ready to paint everyone with the same brush, something I am simply not willing to do. Case by case, weed out the bad seeds, move forward, is the only rational way to approach this. I make no excuses for cops breaking the law and violating their oath of duty, no one does as far as I know, but I also won't condemn people who have committed no crime, nor those that have not yet received a fair trial.

It can make a entire police department guilty of a criminal act…
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No. People are not guilty simply by association, that's not how justice works. Either you are directly involved in a criminal act, or you became are of one and didn't report it. Simply being in the same police department as a bad officer doesn't make you guilty of anything.
 
Johnnypenso
Clearly you didn't understand what I said because I never said the officer in this video was innocent. You seem ready to paint everyone with the same brush, something I am simply not willing to do. Case by case, weed out the bad seeds, move forward, is the only rational way to approach this. I make no excuses for cops breaking the law and violating their oath of duty, no one does as far as I know, but I also won't condemn people who have committed no crime, nor those that have not yet received a fair trial.

No. People are not guilty simply by association, that's not how justice works. Either you are directly involved in a criminal act, or you became are of one and didn't report it. Simply being in the same police department as a bad officer doesn't make you guilty of anything.
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I understand what you said just fine.:) Perhaps you're not understanding when you cover up a crime, it's a criminal offense. If the entire department actively works to cover a officers crime then they are guilty too. It's not the association that makes them guilty, it's the covering up of a crime. I'm not saying that will happen here but it could.
 
playnthru
I understand what you said just fine.:) Perhaps you're not understanding when you cover up a crime, it's a criminal offense. If the entire department actively works to cover a officers crime then they are guilty too. It's not the association that makes them guilty, it's the covering up of a crime. I'm not saying that will happen here but it could.
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That is a typical approach of "guilty until proven innocent" when the other way around should apply, sir. We all deserve a fair trial, and these cops deserve no different.
 
Anyone know what the woman in the video was saying before she got her phone smashed? I turned the volume up real loud and could make out
I have a right to be here, you need to stay away from me/here, I don't feel safe with you close to me
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Couldn't make out anything else, I could be wrong with what I heard though.
 
playnthru
If you are considering the cops who turn their back and do nothing among the thousands that "do a fine job" then… It shows exactly what happens when cops are left to police themselves, nothing. They won't unless forced to.

"Convicted of" is not the only measure of guilt. If you want to argue silly semantics, whatever.:rolleyes: The proof in this video would be enough to convict any American citizen. The fact these are cops and will likely get away with it does not make them innocent. It only shows how the system corrupt.

Its about the fact that covering up a crime, is a crime! If a cop covers for a fellow officer he has also broken the law. It can make a entire police department guilty of a criminal act…
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How much Law Enforcement experience do you have? In my department something like 91-93% of all cases turned over to internal affairs were done so by Officers. I've spoken to LE across the country and most departments are the same way. Are there Officers who will cover for a dirty cop? Absolutely, but the stereotype that we all turn the other way when we see something is entirely false. One of the first things I was told when I was on FTO was "I'm not losing my career for you. If I see you do something illegal, you bet your ass I'm reporting you."

I tell the same thing to the new Officers when they graduate from the academy. There is no question about my loyalty to my fellow Officers, I'll put my life on the line for each and every one of them, but if I see them disrespecting out badge and authority, I'm going straight to my Sgt. or Internal Affairs.

So please stop talking out of your ass with those tired old stereotypes, it shows just how ignorant you are of what really goes on in departments.
 
peobryant
How much Law Enforcement experience do you have? In my department something like 91-93% of all cases turned over to internal affairs were done so by Officers. I've spoken to LE across the country and most departments are the same way. Are there Officers who will cover for a dirty cop? Absolutely, but the stereotype that we all turn the other way when we see something is entirely false. One of the first things I was told when I was on FTO was "I'm not losing my career for you. If I see you do something illegal, you bet your ass I'm reporting you."

I tell the same thing to the new Officers when they graduate from the academy. There is no question about my loyalty to my fellow Officers, I'll put my life on the line for each and every one of them, but if I see them disrespecting out badge and authority, I'm going straight to my Sgt. or Internal Affairs.

So please stop talking out of your ass with those tired old stereotypes, it shows just how ignorant you are of what really goes on in departments.
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How are facts "talking out my arse"? Many cops do turn the other way! I explained exactly what happens every single day. Just because you don't like it or it doesn't happen in your PD means nothing. It does happen, has happened here, will continue happening.

You ask how much law enforcement I have? Enough to know the truth about how cops work from both ends. I've had cops try to plant evidence and lie in court against me. I've been harassed, beaten and talked trash to and about by your beloved fellow officers. I even had a off duty cop threaten me with his weapon then assault me over mistaken identity . None of those cops faced any disciplinary action even though i complained to their watch commanders ..And all you say "that old stereotype"..The typical stance of the brotherhood, we didn't do it. We all report on each other..:sly::sly: I've been assaulted by the police enough to know it's no stereotype.:rolleyes:

I watched and listened to cops tell lies in open court only to prove them liars and win my case. Because all the "I'm a cop my word is steel B.S" doesn't hold water when presented with a video and some pictures.

Sorry buddy, real life facts, real life bad cops. Real videos of cops committing crimes against the people they are sworn to protect.

:lol: stereotypes…Forgive me while i LMAO. These things are real, they happen and are caught on video! Typical cop move though, attack the threat even if it's words speaking truth then, deny deny deny..

I'd also love to see the conviction rate on that 91-93% of complaints turned over to internal affairs. That would tell a far more accurate story of what goes on. Just saying.
 
playnthru
How are facts "talking out my arse"? Many cops do turn the other way! I explained exactly what happens every single day. Just because you don't like it or it doesn't happen in your PD means nothing. It does happen, has happened here, will continue happening.
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An anecdotal video on YT isn't "facts". FYI.

You ask how much law enforcement I have? Enough to know the truth about how cops work from both ends. I've had cops try to plant evidence and lie in court against me. I've been harassed, beaten and talked trash to and about by your beloved fellow officers. I even had a off duty cop threaten me with his weapon then assault me over mistaken identity . None of those cops faced any disciplinary action even though i complained to their watch commanders ..And all you say "that old stereotype"..The typical stance of the brotherhood, we didn't do it. We all report on each other..:sly::sly: I've been assaulted by the police enough to know it's no stereotype.:rolleyes:
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Your individual anecdotal evidence is also not proof of a stereotype. I've had various interactions with the police over the years from various perspectives (victim, father, business owner, driver, drunken lout etc.) and never had an issue with their conduct.
 
playnthru
How are facts "talking out my arse"? Many cops do turn the other way! I explained exactly what happens every single day. Just because you don't like it or it doesn't happen in your PD means nothing. It does happen, has happened here, will continue happening.

You ask how much law enforcement I have? Enough to know the truth about how cops work from both ends. I've had cops try to plant evidence and lie in court against me. I've been harassed, beaten and talked trash to and about by your beloved fellow officers. I even had a off duty cop threaten me with his weapon then assault me over mistaken identity . None of those cops faced any disciplinary action even though i complained to their watch commanders ..And all you say "that old stereotype"..The typical stance of the brotherhood, we didn't do it. We all report on each other..:sly::sly: I've been assaulted by the police enough to know it's no stereotype.:rolleyes:

I watched and listened to cops tell lies in open court only to prove them liars and win my case. Because all the "I'm a cop my word is steel B.S" doesn't hold water when presented with a video and some pictures.

Sorry buddy, real life facts, real life bad cops. Real videos of cops committing crimes against the people they are sworn to protect.

:lol: stereotypes…Forgive me while i LMAO. These things are real, they happen and are caught on video! Typical cop move though, attack the threat even if it's words speaking truth then, deny deny deny..

I'd also love to see the conviction rate on that 91-93% of complaints turned over to internal affairs. That would tell a far more accurate story of what goes on. Just saying.
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I think you'll find that I agreed with you on the fact that some cops will turn the other way. However, there are right at or a little over 1 million sworn Officers in this country and the vast majority of us do not turn the other way. That is an absolute fact, painting us all with teh same brush is absolutely ignorant. No matter how hard we try there will always be bad apples that get past our various screening efforts, the best we can do is report the idiots that somehow make it past and hope that even the union won't be able to fight for them to stay employed.

So you have no Law Enforcement experience, thank you, that is all I needed to know. By your logic, I've never been assaulted by the police so that means nobody else ever has either. Unfortunately the rest of your post is useless drivel, something that I deal with on a daily basis and also something that I'm not interested in responding to in my free time. Out of curiosity though, why have you had so many run ins with the police? The only time I've ever had an Officer stop me is when I was still a teenager and I parked in a neighborhood club parking lot at around 0200. The Officer asked for ID and instead of screaming at him, telling him I know my rights, I don't have to ID myself and all that garbage, I simply handed my ID over, he asked my what I was doing, I explained myself and then I was on my way. I was never beaten, assaulted, had evidence planted on me or anything like that. I'm not accusing you of anything but it seems like the people who consistently break the law are the ones who have trouble with the police.

I will also say that I am sorry that, if your story is true, that you've had these issues with the police in your area. That being said, there is absolutely no reason to paint 1 million people with the same brush because of your experience with not even 1% of us. Police stop million of people in America each day, to say that your experience with them is common is absolutely wrong and completely ridiculous. However you are more than welcome to your opinion, however wrong and biased it is.

Have a wonderful day. 👍
 
peobryant
I think you'll find that I agreed with you on the fact that some cops will turn the other way. However, there are right at or a little over 1 million sworn Officers in this country and the vast majority of us do not turn the other way. That is an absolute fact, painting us all with teh same brush is absolutely ignorant. No matter how hard we try there will always be bad apples that get past our various screening efforts, the best we can do is report the idiots that somehow make it past and hope that even the union won't be able to fight for them to stay employed.
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I agree there are cops doing good work. I also agree police work is difficult on the mind and body. I disagree about your few bad apples theory though. There are tons of bad apples, even bad departments. Departments where the "bad apple" is on the top of tree (so to speak). I'm particular thinking of some local cases, admitting.

peobryant
So you have no Law Enforcement experience, thank you, that is all I needed to know. By your logic, I've never been assaulted by the police so that means nobody else ever has either. Unfortunately the rest of your post is useless drivel, something that I deal with on a daily basis and also something that I'm not interested in responding to in my free time. Out of curiosity though, why have you had so many run ins with the police? The only time I've ever had an Officer stop me is when I was still a teenager and I parked in a neighborhood club parking lot at around 0200. The Officer asked for ID and instead of screaming at him, telling him I know my rights, I don't have to ID myself and all that garbage, I simply handed my ID over, he asked my what I was doing, I explained myself and then I was on my way. I was never beaten, assaulted, had evidence planted on me or anything like that. I'm not accusing you of anything but it seems like the people who consistently break the law are the ones who have trouble with the police.
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Would it make difference is I was a cop? Are only cops allowed to comment on other officers?

So sorry real life stories about police abuse are "drivel" to you. Please tell me again about how i'm the biased one here. You've already implied i constantly break the law so, yes, you are accusing me of something. I already stated one was a case of mistaken identity.


peobryant
I will also say that I am sorry that, if your story is true, that you've had these issues with the police in your area. That being said, there is absolutely no reason to paint 1 million people with the same brush because of your experience with not even 1% of us. Police stop million of people in America each day, to say that your experience with them is common is absolutely wrong and completely ridiculous. However you are more than welcome to your opinion, however wrong and biased it is.

Have a wonderful day. 👍
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My story is true, thanks (i guess). I think you're missing the big picture though, bad apples ruin the pie (however that saying goes). AND..It has happened where bad apples ruin a department.

Hey buddy, you have a great one too.
 
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mustafur
I think in general, American Police are just on another level of aggression compared to other western countries.
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BobK
Might I ask what you base that statement on? Hopefully not TV/movie cop shows.
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My perceived difference is that the dodgy cops in Australia might tend to be condescending, unbending, and charge you with something you didn't actually do, while dodgy US cops might be more angsty, provocative, and try to get you to make a move you otherwise wouldn't have - that they can then charge you with. It's lose/lose of course, but I can spare a few dollars more than I can spare what little serenity of mind I have.

A massive generalisation of course, but based on experience none the less.
 
playnthru
My story is true, thanks (i guess). I think your missing the big picture though, bad apples ruin the pie (however that saying goes). AND..It has happened were bad apples ruin a department.

Hey buddy, you have a great one too.
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The "big picture" is not represented by a handful of anecdotes. Do you have any statistics to back up your claims?
 
This whole Blacks Vs Police thing in America is never going to end, considering blacks are statistically going to commit more crimes per head then any other race.

Im sure similar things happen to non Blacks but that isn't news worthy and people are not actively waiting to film that, which is now what is happening with blacks.

Not to say there hasn't been racism from the Police force against blacks in some areas but this has been blown way out of proportion.
 
Personally, I think home/business owners are the only people who can put an immediate end to these rioters. Because if the police retaliate, someone will have a camera & be looking for "brutality". Look back at the Asian neighborhoods during the Rodney King riots. These same types of "protesters" tried to go into their neighborhoods to rob & destroy for personal gain only to be met with shop owners banding together & firing off their own weapons. I'm not advocating vigilantes, but more for allowing the rioting masses to encounter people who don't follow police procedure, people who only want to keep them & their properties safe in the name of self defense.
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LeMansAid
So true, what with white Americans statistically going to have slaves and all.
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Well if you go back far enough and ignore what happens inbetween.

Since I doubt major laws that equal the abolishment of Slavery on the Black racial group are going to happen I doubt that is comparable.
 
mustafur
Since I doubt major laws that equal the abolishment of Slavery on the Black racial group are going to happen I doubt that is comparable.
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The laws didn't come out of thin air. There had to be culture change to push it to the point of enshrining something in law.

This would be much simpler if you'd concede that you're not clairvoyant, and clarify that it was merely an opinion on what the future will hold.
 
McLaren
Personally, I think home/business owners are the only people who can put an immediate end to these rioters. Because if the police retaliate, someone will have a camera & be looking for "brutality". Look back at the Asian neighborhoods during the Rodney King riots. These same types of "protesters" tried to go into their neighborhoods to rob & destroy for personal gain only to be met with shop owners banding together & firing off their own weapons. I'm not advocating vigilantes, but more for allowing the rioting masses to encounter people who don't follow police procedure, people who only want to keep them & their properties safe in the name of self defense.
58852252.jpg
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It really turns into another world in the middle of a riot. I remember each group banded together to look after their own religious/cultural institution, and even helped each others (Muslim helping Sikh etc) in the thick of the London riots.

Police control disintegrates in these times, and it can be scary to be caught up in.
 
McLaren
Personally, I think home/business owners are the only people who can put an immediate end to these rioters. Because if the police retaliate, someone will have a camera & be looking for "brutality". Look back at the Asian neighborhoods during the Rodney King riots. These same types of "protesters" tried to go into their neighborhoods to rob & destroy for personal gain only to be met with shop owners banding together & firing off their own weapons. I'm not advocating vigilantes, but more for allowing the rioting masses to encounter people who don't follow police procedure, people who only want to keep them & their properties safe in the name of self defense.
58852252.jpg
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Sometimes the only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. I don't fault store owners who wish to protect their property with guns like the Koreans did during the Rodney King riots. It would make criminals think twice about wanting to loot a particular store.
 
Oh the irony. I love how the liberal media is championing a woman that is essentially assaulting and abusing her child in public, calling her "Mom of the Year", the View audience laughing and cheering what is essentially a conservative principle of being able to physically discipline unruly children. One wonders if it would be the same reaction if a conservative Congressman was getting in a couple of licks on his son for drag racing or yelling obscenities.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/28/us/baltimore-riot-mom-smacks-son/index.html

Note: I think she did the right thing:sly:
 
The author first posted false information, including the girl stole the purse, on his twitter and the sparks started to fly. Here are two links to the paper, one labeled a distraction(redaction before the piece was posted lol) and the other is the article labeled "How drunk sports fans helped spark Saturday night's post-protest violence"

http://www.citypaper.com/blogs/the-news-hole/bcpnews-a-dumb-distraction-20150428,0,3455147.story

http://www.citypaper.com/news/bcpne...rday-nights-violence-20150428,0,1167335.story

They get almost every aspect of what happened wrong. Since you posted here I figured I'd make a gif of the poor man having his purse stolen. Someone has tracked him down on FB and his name and picture are being circulated.

...a protester with a big bag and a bottle of vodka that he clearly stole from one of the bars (it has a pourer on it) approached her. That’s where we got the image of a protester, who was most certainly looting, who looks like he’s stealing a purse, but I was there and I’m really not sure if that’s what is happening.
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EiWGpr.gif


:lol:
 
Bernie Sanders has just thrown his hat into the ring for the Democratic nomination: link.
 
Sanji Himura
That is a typical approach of "guilty until proven innocent" when the other way around should apply, sir. We all deserve a fair trial, and these cops deserve no different.
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wat?

Despite the letter of the law law enforcement doesn't work that way..

AND! Nothing i said even implied they were legally guilty? I said they broke the law and are guilty of that (it's on video for christ sake).
 
playnthru
wat?

Despite the letter of the law law enforcement doesn't work that way..

AND! Nothing i said even implied they were legally guilty? I said they broke the law and are guilty of that (it's on video for christ sake).
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You were more than happy to put the entire department on the electric chair two weeks ago...

playnthru
I understand what you said just fine.:) Perhaps you're not understanding when you cover up a crime, it's a criminal offense. If the entire department actively works to cover a officers crime then they are guilty too. It's not the association that makes them guilty, it's the covering up of a crime. I'm not saying that will happen here but it could.
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Let me tell you some actual facts about the case.

1. Baltimore is 63% black. The Mayor, the Police Commissioner, the Deputy Police Commissioner are all African American, as is 67% of the police force in what was historically an Irish city.

2. The racial make up of those charged in Gray's death are three black, and three white.

3. The police, as would any department dealing with a death of a suspect in police custody, followed procedure in turning over all of the files in the case, including the autopsy results, to the State Attorney General's office for further investigation, in other words, the investigation at this point was not completed, and Baltimore PD had to step away because of conflicts of interest.
 
Sanji Himura
You were more than happy to put the entire department on the electric chair two weeks ago...
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Where did i say that?

Sanji Himura
1. Baltimore is 63% black. The Mayor, the Police Commissioner, the Deputy Police Commissioner are all African American, as is 67% of the police force in what was historically an Irish city.

2. The racial make up of those charged in Gray's death are three black, and three white.

3. The police, as would any department dealing with a death of a suspect in police custody, followed procedure in turning over all of the files in the case, including the autopsy results, to the State Attorney General's office for further investigation, in other words, the investigation at this point was not completed, and Baltimore PD had to step away
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This has to do with what?
 

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