America - The Official Thread

[ryzno]

Good... We need another culling.

While I get where you're going, is Anarchy a world you want to try to survive in? And what if the "bad guys" win? Then what do we do?

Edit: Dude in the video running around bashing people in the head with the Anarchist flag is a sign of whats to come.

 

[Johnnypenso]

So, 10 people get injured at a permitted rally and the police stand around and do nothing. I'm telling you, we're going to have another civil war by the end of the decade. It just seems inevitable.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/26/us/brawl-at-california-rally/

Imagine if the roles were reversed and the white supremacists had showed up in large numbers and attacked some pro-multiculturalism march with knives, bottles, bricks, and chunks of concrete. The liberal media would be OUTRAGED and Trump would no doubt be the underlying cause of the attack. Who do we blame when it's supposed to be the more rational and measured left leaners resorting straight to violence when someone organizes a legal march and says things they don't like?

 

[stonesfan129]

Is it possible that this isn't over yet, and that another judge, who actually is sane in the brain will give him a sentence he deserves?

Not trying to defend the guy, but that would violate double jeopardy as protected under the fifth amendment.

 

[ryzno]

Imagine if the roles were reversed and the white supremacists had showed up in large numbers and attacked some pro-multiculturalism march with knives, bottles, bricks, and chunks of concrete. The liberal media would be OUTRAGED and Trump would no doubt be the underlying cause of the attack. Who do we blame when it's supposed to be the more rational and measured left leaners resorting straight to violence when someone organizes a legal march and says things they don't like?

They probably would blame Trump. But is it Trump, the media or the people?

 

[Danoff]

Is it possible that this isn't over yet, and that another judge, who actually is sane in the brain will give him a sentence he deserves?

I am assuming that there is more to it than the broad strokes that have been painted in the general media. As I understand it, Turner didn't actually "rape" her, possibly because he was too drunk. What happened before they got out to the dumpster? If she was too drunk to remember anything, how does she know she didn't "consent"? What does consent mean when both the rapist & victim are extremely intoxicated?

We're told that she was passed out when they were found. From her alcohol levels the medical evidence suggested she'd been out cold for some time.



So it seems. This attack seems to fall well within the definition of sexual assault but not rape. I'm sure rape wasn't on the charge sheet.



Agreed. However, if somebody is too drunk to sensibly consent then they're too drunk to consent. She maintains that she would not and did not consent to being undressed behind a dumpster and "manipulated" so forcefully that she sustained internal cuts and abrasions along with a collection of pine needles and ground dirt.

Her own comments on that are interesting;



I have to agree with that; if you're getting consent from somebody who's drunk then you need to strongly consider that you may be taking advantage.

They did the opposite.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...due-released-3-months-early-article-1.2667473

How in the hell is 1 week enough to determine a clean record in jail? This dude might as well stay on the inside now; it's going to be a lot safer there with the outrage the public is already in.

This kid may have lucked out on a joke of a sentence, but at least someone cracked the whip on this dumb ass. USA Swimming banned him for life. He wasn't a member at the time, but he sure as hell won't be able to use his swimming talents any time in the future for sure now. Had he been a member, he still would have been banned because sexual assault can carry a lifetime ban from the sport.

Society calls upon our great prison inmates to apply the proper justice no judge would be able to

Conventional justice might have failed his victim, but poetic justice will catch up with him. What he did to her will stay with her for the rest of her life - and now he gets a life sentence because everyone knows his name and what he did. It's a palty consolation in the absence of a meaningful prison sentence, but at least the stigma of being a convicted sex offender will follow him wherever he goes.

I see that for the rape case, a lot of you have adopted an eye for eye rationale. Both figuratively, and well.....

From what I understand in this case, the prosecutor recommended a light sentence, character witnesses indicated that this person was not likely to be a repeat offender, and the victim's own testimony indicated that she did not want him to "rot away in jail", and that instead they should focus on rehabilitation. What's a judge to do when nobody is pushing for a harsh sentence except the clueless masses on facebook and twitter?

 

[Swagger897]

While I get where you're going, is Anarchy a world you want to try to survive in? And what if the "bad guys" win? Then what do we do?

Edit: Dude in the video running around bashing people in the head with the Anarchist flag is a sign of whats to come.

In my situation I'd be perfectly fine, away from the nonsense.

I'm sure you and I see it all the same since we live relatively close, depending if you watch the local news too. It's only rape, murder, murder, murder, low health inspection, hit and run, corrupt politics, and road work that'll never be finished in this decade.

 

[LeMansAid]

From what I understand in this case, the prosecutor recommended a light sentence, character witnesses indicated that this person was not likely to be a repeat offender, and the victim's own testimony indicated that she did not want him to "rot away in jail", and that instead they should focus on rehabilitation. What's a judge to do when nobody is pushing for a harsh sentence except the clueless masses on facebook and twitter?

The article you linked reads "Branding former Stanford swimmer Brock Turner a "continued threat to the community," prosecutors are asking a judge to sentence him this week to six years in state prison", and an excerpt from the victim's statement reads "Unfortunately, after reading the defendant’s statement, I am severely disappointed and feel that he has failed to exhibit sincere remorse or responsibility for his conduct. I fully respected his right to a trial, but even after twelve jurors unanimously convicted him guilty of three felonies, all he has admitted to doing is ingesting alcohol. Someone who cannot take full accountability for his actions does not deserve a mitigating sentence". I'm not sure why you're inferring disinterest in a harsh sentence.

Also, you of all people I thought would want the judge to respect each individual deserving of rights protection, and protect them from a rights abuser - including protecting people that are completely unaware of the case. "Individual rights are not subject to the cluelessness of the masses" if I was to paraphrase..... though I certainly realise that having rights and having protection for them are two completely different things.

The rejoicing in the rape of a rapist however is far from my game. It's tasteless, and poor form.

 

[Danoff]

The article you linked reads "Branding former Stanford swimmer Brock Turner a "continued threat to the community," prosecutors are asking a judge to sentence him this week to six years in state prison", and an excerpt from the victim's statement reads "Unfortunately, after reading the defendant’s statement, I am severely disappointed and feel that he has failed to exhibit sincere remorse or responsibility for his conduct. I fully respected his right to a trial, but even after twelve jurors unanimously convicted him guilty of three felonies, all he has admitted to doing is ingesting alcohol. Someone who cannot take full accountability for his actions does not deserve a mitigating sentence". I'm not sure why you're inferring disinterest in a harsh sentence.

Prior to sentencing, the victim was quoted saying ""I don't want him to rot away in jail; he doesn't need to be behind bars" in that article - which is only partly what makes it difficult for a judge to throw the book at him. The particulars of the case, the lack of priors, statement from the victim, and a prosecutor who was not pursuing the maximum sentence (at least that's my understanding, I don't know if 6 years is the maximum sentence, but I doubt it).

I'm all for protection of rights as you know, but sentencing is not a one-size-fits-all issue. I'm not saying I'd have prescribed the same sentence, just explaining partially why it occurred. The incident can be described as "guy rapes unconscious girl" or "drunk guy and drunk girl mess around with her consent, she passes out but he keeps going". And probably it can be described everywhere in between. It's a light sentence, but it's not as easy to throw stones as so many people think.

 

[Joel]

Redacted.

 

[Robin]

There was an explosion in Central Park New York, The whole area is locked down.

Terrorism? We don't really know yet.

 

[McLaren]

From what I understand in this case, the prosecutor recommended a light sentence, character witnesses indicated that this person was not likely to be a repeat offender, and the victim's own testimony indicated that she did not want him to "rot away in jail", and that instead they should focus on rehabilitation. What's a judge to do when nobody is pushing for a harsh sentence except the clueless masses on facebook and twitter?

You can take as much of that into account as you wish, but when you have an organization giving him a harsher punishment than the judge, there's the problem.

You may be clueless yourself if a light sentencing is getting a slap on the wrist with 6 months in jail with the option to serve only 90 days for good behavior. He still committed a serious crime, and should still be facing a considerable amount of time because of it. People are not asking for a harsh punishment, they're asking for a fair punishment.

 

[Danoff]

You can take as much of that into account as you wish, but when you have an organization giving him a harsher punishment than the judge, there's the problem.

You may be clueless yourself if a light sentencing is getting a slap on the wrist with 6 months in jail with the option to serve only 90 days for good behavior. He still committed a serious crime, and should still be facing a considerable amount of time because of it. People are not asking for a harsh punishment, they're asking for a fair punishment.

I don't remember saying what I thought he should get. Just pointing out how it occurred.

 

[McLaren]

I don't remember saying what I thought he should get. Just pointing out how it occurred.

Fair enough. My apologies.

 

[ryzno]

I wish I could link the videos and abide the AUP with my comments, but the shootings the last two nights by police killing black men are unbelievable. We need to hire veterans who have experience in "hostile" situations, not trigger happy scared white men!! :sad:

I keep telling y'all another civil war is coming...

 

[Parker]

I wish I could link the videos and abide the AUP with my comments, but the shootings the last two nights by police killing black men are unbelievable. We need to hire veterans who have experience in "hostile" situations, not trigger happy scared white men!! :sad:

I keep telling y'all another civil war is coming...

How about we wait for all the facts to come out before we jump to conclusions?

 

[Johnnypenso]

I wish I could link the videos and abide the AUP with my comments, but the shootings the last two nights by police killing black men are unbelievable. We need to hire veterans who have experience in "hostile" situations, not trigger happy scared white men!! :sad:

I keep telling y'all another civil war is coming...

Just going by the latest video, what would an officer experienced in a hostile situation do when they pull someone over who is armed, you tell them to keep their hands on the wheel and they start reaching into their back pocket?

 

[Carbonox]

I wish I could link the videos and abide the AUP with my comments, but the shootings the last two nights by police killing black men are unbelievable. We need to hire veterans who have experience in "hostile" situations, not trigger happy scared white men!! :sad:

I keep telling y'all another civil war is coming...

Of course, as usual, whiteness is incredibly relevant here.

 

[prousonhairy]

How about we wait for all the facts to come out before we jump to conclusions?

This.

There are situations where cops are absolutely in the wrong, there's no denying that, and they should be punished for that.

There's also a lot of times when people need to wait for the facts to come out, before rushing to judgement. People get all up in arms and start protests rallies etc, before they have any clue at all as to what actually happened, it's all heresay. Sometimes even when presented with the facts later on, it still didn't change their mind. I understand that there's a deep mistrust for the police in certain communities, and I understand why that is, I am in no way suggesting that police don't kill innocent people. I just think there's a rush to judgement, before anyone even knows for sure what has happened.

I also believe the news media is responsible to an extent in some of this.

I live about 60 miles from Ferguson Missouri. When all that happened with Michael Brown, it's all the local news talked about. When it first came out it was "Michael Brown was an honor student getting ready to start college etc".
I heard about 300 "eyewitnesses" that all seen the crime.

I heard one person actually say..."Big Mike was down on his knees, with his hands in the air saying "please officer don't kill me", and the police officer walked up to him and shot him in the head"...this was all over local news and CNN etc, reporters just walking up to protestors and they had no idea if they were actually there, or just making things up.

It was determined later on that a lot of these so called "witnesses" weren't even there, and were either just making stuff up, going on what someone else told them, or in some cases, told them to say. Then it came out that Michel Brown had just commited a strong armed robbery, and he wasn't such an angel after all.

I haven't really caught a lot of either of these new cases, the one in Baton Rouge sounds very fishy, both the cops that had police cameras, they "fell off"? I haven't seen the video, but I've read it looks like this guy did nothing wrong, and got shot 5 times for it.

I also think being a cop is an ungrateful job that doesn't pay much, and is super stressful. Someone who's resisting and not following orders reaches in their pocket and is pulling something out, what would you do or be thinking? There's a split second where their choice can either mean the officer getting shot, shooting an armed suspect, or shooting an unarmed suspect.

And no matter what anyone says, yeah there are times when cops shoot innocent people who were doing nothing wrong. It happens, there are bad cops. There are cops that have absolutely have no business being cops. One of the biggest issues in law enforcement, in a lot of places if a cop gets fired, he can go somewhere else and apply to be a cop and sometimes they don't even check where they have worked as a cop or if/why they were fired. I know they are working to change this in alot of places.

I think people need to wait to react, I always keep an open mind with everything, and wait to see what all comes out. People need to do this, before judging or starting hashtag movements. I also think the media is a disgrace when it comes to these things, I don't think there would of been near the riots in Ferguson, if CNN and all the other huge news organizations didn't have a front row seat, basically asking for it to happen so they could show it on TV. Too many news organizations like to create their own news, and are irresponsible with it, basically pouring gas on the fire.

Anyways, that's just some of my thoughts on it. Not ever trying to start anything, just my feelings on it. You all have a pleasant day, and sorry for the long post. 👍

 

[Lain]

Just going by the latest video, what would an officer experienced in a hostile situation do when they pull someone over who is armed, you tell them to keep their hands on the wheel and they start reaching into their back pocket?

The latest situation? Well aside form the absurdity of calling a routine traffic stop a "hostile situation"... Hopefully the answer is to not shoot. The very fact that the man informed the police officer that he's carrying a firearm tells me he's trying to be compliant.

I mean, you sure as hell don't go "hey check this out, I've got this sweet ass firearm imma shoot you with... Lemme just grab it right quick..."

 

[Parker]

This.

I haven't really caught a lot of either of these new cases, the one in Baton Rouge sounds very fishy, both the cops that had police cameras, they "fell off"?

I don't know what kind of body cams this department issues but if it is the kind that uses a magnet to clip on to the uniform they fall off very easily. They are fairly hard to pull straight off but when you're fighting someone and they are hit from the side, it is easy for them to fall off.

I can see how it might seem fishy, but for anyone with experience it isn't strange at all.

The latest situation? Well aside form the absurdity of calling a routine traffic stop a "hostile situation"... Hopefully the answer is to not shoot. The very fact that the man informed the police officer that he's carrying a firearm tells me he's trying to be compliant.

I mean, you sure as hell don't go "hey check this out, I've got this sweet ass firearm imma shoot you with... Lemme just grab it right quick..."

Who said that he informed the Officer he was armed? The Officer himself or the girlfriend?

 

[phillgt2002]

No matter how hard you try to justify his death, no one deserves to die in front of their child.

Although we don't have any concrete proof, going off of what has been said, he was told to get his I.D. While doing so, he warned the officer that he was armed and then the officer decided to do the rash thing that he did and shot the man with a girl that had to be no older than six sitting right behind him.

I don't know.. if you ask me, it sounds completely plausible that this actually happened.

Sometimes, take time to think about the way that these things happen in a humane way. I know there are lots of fathers on GTPlanet, and I do know that there are a select few that will try to find any reason to justify the murder or killing. (commenting on past history, soft drug offenses, etc)

I'm probably going to find my way out of here. Being on this side of the fence when politics come up changes the whole aura of the site, and it makes my mind come up with judgements of people I otherwise would not have.

Have at it.

 

[Danoff]

I wish I could link the videos and abide the AUP with my comments, but the shootings the last two nights by police killing black men are unbelievable. We need to hire veterans who have experience in "hostile" situations, not trigger happy scared white men!! :sad:

I keep telling y'all another civil war is coming...

I wish the media would stop cherry picking which police shootings they report. There was a white guy recently executed in a hotel hallway by police... no national media coverage because white lives don't matter. Police abuse their power... that's the story.

 

[TenEightyOne]

I wish the media would stop cherry picking which police shootings they report. There was a white guy recently executed in a hotel hallway by police... no national media coverage because white lives don't matter. Police abuse their power... that's the story.

Daniel Shaver? The case was reported by several national and international outlets, or so I thought?

 

[Danoff]

Daniel Shaver? The case was reported by several national and international outlets, or so I thought?

Yea that's the guy! I'm glad you knew who I was talking about because I honestly was expecting not to find it when someone said "citation needed". Ok, so let's keep our outrage for this recent shooting at roughly the same level of outrage we all had about Daniel Shaver shall we?

Edit:

I think, from a GTPlanet perspective, that means roughly 0 additional outraged posts about this topic.

 

[Johnnypenso]

The latest situation? Well aside form the absurdity of calling a routine traffic stop a "hostile situation"... Hopefully the answer is to not shoot. The very fact that the man informed the police officer that he's carrying a firearm tells me he's trying to be compliant.

I mean, you sure as hell don't go "hey check this out, I've got this sweet ass firearm imma shoot you with... Lemme just grab it right quick..."

Again, going by the video, you're the cop, you tell some one hands on the wheel and they reach for their back pocket. What do you do? Same situation and you know he has a gun. Same situation and you don't know if he has a gun. What do you do?

 

[Lain]

Who said that he informed the Officer he was armed? The Officer himself or the girlfriend?

The woman, who in the video seems much more level-headed than the cop.

You're implying that the officer's word (what little of it there is besides "🤬") is more valid?

Again, going by the video, you're the cop, you tell some one hands on the wheel and they reach for their back pocket. What do you do? Same situation and you know he has a gun. Same situation and you don't know if he has a gun. What do you do?

So wait... We can't take the girlfriend's account of what happened into consideration, but we can just outright assume that the officer told the man to keep his hands on the wheel (contrary to the girlfriend's account, no less)?

But to answer your questions... Do I shoot a man whom I stopped for a minor traffic violation simply because he's reaching for "something", when it's very plausible that maybe he misheard my instructions or was just getting ahead of himself and was just reaching for his wallet?

No. I wait until I see that he's actually drawing a weapon.

In the military, deadly force is authorized only when you KNOW your life is in danger. Not when you think it might possibly could be in danger. Even seeing a weapon in someone's hands isn't enough unless they show clear intent to use it. The police might not be held to the same standards, but they really ought to be.


But all that aside, yeah sure... I'd love to see video leading up to the shooting to see how things really played out. I'm not saying the girlfriend's account is gospel (It did slightly change over the course of that video, in fact). It's just all we have to go on at the moment, and people just completely dismissing it to side with the officer is a bit disturbing.

 

[Parker]

The woman, who in the video seems much more level-headed than the cop.

You're implying that the officer's word (what little of it there is besides "🤬") is more valid?

I didn't imply anything, I simply asked a question because I don't have all the facts.

 

[Lain]

I didn't imply anything, I simply asked a question because I don't have all the facts.

Fair enough, I apologize for the poor assumption.

To answer your question better, yes it was the girlfriend who stated this while talking to the officer. The officer certainly didn't contest the point, either. If you can stomach it, the video is worth watching... I think the woman's calm, rational demeanor during the incident is quite telling.


FWIW, I don't think the officer killed the man for kicks or anything ridiculous like that like some people seem to think. He simply made a poor judgement call (which racial biases may or may not have played a part in, but that's another discussion and besides the point). But manslaughter is manslaughter, and I don't think he should slip the nets of the justice system just because he's a cop.

 

[ryzno]

How about we wait for all the facts to come out before we jump to conclusions?

When did the people need a court verdict to start violent riots?

Just going by the latest video, what would an officer experienced in a hostile situation do when they pull someone over who is armed, you tell them to keep their hands on the wheel and they start reaching into their back pocket?

This line from Lain's post sums it up very well.

In the military, deadly force is authorized only when you KNOW your life is in danger. Not when you think it might possibly could be in danger. Even seeing a weapon in someone's hands isn't enough unless they show clear intent to use it. The police might not be held to the same standards, but they really ought to be.

Seems GTP crashed and I lost an essay I'm not going to retype.

No matter how hard you try to justify his death, no one deserves to die in front of their child.

I'll quote a tweet I read. "They. Fired. A. Gun. Into. A. Car. With. A. Child. In. The. Back. Seat." Please don't think I am bashing your post, I completely agree with you.

-------------
I love the bashing for my word choice. Sorry my vocabulary is not on y'alls level. I do try to at least make comprehend able posts. Even though y'all don't always agree.

The officer treated it as a hostile situation. I bet some of y'all would be saying something different if the 4 year old daughter got shot instead. I'm white. Unlike a lot of y'all on here, I have seen the receiving end of a few police beatings just cause I ran. By white officers..........
The rare time I got stopped by a black officer with a joint, he took it. But after that we had a very interesting convo and he told me he was going to college and was actually studying cannibas physiological effects. And his views didn't exactly match the laws he enforces.

 

[McLaren]

I wish I could link the videos and abide the AUP with my comments, but the shootings the last two nights by police killing black men are unbelievable. We need to hire veterans who have experience in "hostile" situations, not trigger happy scared white men!! :sad:

I keep telling y'all another civil war is coming...

I love the bashing for my word choice. Sorry my vocabulary is not on y'alls level. I do try to at least make comprehend able posts. Even though y'all don't always agree.

The officer treated it as a hostile situation. I bet some of y'all would be saying something different if the 4 year old daughter got shot instead. I'm white. Unlike a lot of y'all on here, I have seen the receiving end of a few police beatings just cause I ran. By white officers..........
The rare time I got stopped by a black officer with a joint, he took it. But after that we had a very interesting convo and he told me he was going to college and was actually studying cannibas physiological effects. And his views didn't exactly match the laws he enforces.

The officer who shot Philando Castile (the innocent one) was Asian-American.


Congrats, you played yourself bringing up something that's irrelevant.