America - The Official Thread

  • Thread starter ///M-Spec
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Well here comes the plan for the Wall. I thought that was dropped? A wall isn't going to do any good unless it's 100 feet below ground as well.

wait, Trump is still on the tweet campaign? :lol: He really needs to stop that.

The funny thing is, until China cornered the world market on solar panels, they had the exact same opinion of climate legislation, only with the words "Chinese" and "U.S." reversed.

The delicious irony.

It just goes to show how after 100 years of the world is gonna burn, no it's going to freeze, no wait. We can't seem to grasp the fact it's being used to manipulate us for whatever flavor of the month.

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There is nothing wrong with borders, culture, and language. When did having sovereignty turn into isolationism?
 
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I dont understand Trumps decision of getting out of Nafta/tpp. I mean, US always has the lowest prices on stuff so he wants even better deals? How? I understand that he does not like companies getting out of their home countries for other regions where the production is a fraction of a cost. But this is the American way, all other countries have copied this practice ie the squeeze and use everyone and everything as much as you can for short term profit and yet the owners are never satisfied.

Ie it is the "free market" that USA is so proud of and now he is complaining? He himself has used this practice to the fullest, if he brings all those companies back it only means that he plans to lower the minimum wages and will probably give companies more freedom and less responsibility.

It means USA will be the new China where smog will cover the cities like a heavy lid and water will be filled with chemicals unfit for drinking.

And about the wall, what a bout the wildlife, surely there are some spices left that roam the land freely...

All I think about now is the movie: Independence day. Where USA and the pioneers of ultra capitalistic free market(not so free at all) are the Invading aliens :P
 
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I dont understand Trumps decision of getting out of Nafta/tpp. I mean, US always has the lowest prices on stuff so he wants even better deals? How?
He seems to be under the impression that the United States traded away its position of economic superiority for nothing, and that he can reclaim that position through strong-arm tactics without suffering any kind of blowback.

Trumpism (as it will no doubt become to be known) amounts to revisionism - of turning the clock back sixty years.
 
He seems to be under the impression that the United States traded away its position of economic superiority for nothing, and that he can reclaim that position through strong-arm tactics without suffering any kind of blowback.

Trumpism (as it will no doubt become to be known) amounts to revisionism - of turning the clock back sixty years.

It goes back much further than that, have you ever read George Washington's farewell address? How about Thomas Jefferson's inaugural address.

Why you guys think something like TPP is a good idea I don't know, trade can happen without alliances 💡

Trump has not ditched NAFTA yet, but he might as well, we'll still trade with Mexico and Canada ;)
 
President Trump is actually attempting something amazing and previously held practically impossible - fulfilling his campaign promises! It's actually far more than revisionism, it's revolutionary. Since his party (nervous nellies so far notwithstanding) controls both houses of congress and he has the support of the broad and growing populist base that elected him, the only thing that can stop him is the courts. The key is he must retain the support of the people, the populist base that elected him. Right now he is growing from strength to strength, particularly amongst excited businessmen, union people (!) and Bernie-style anti-free trade Democrats. He seems to have no effective opposition from shellshocked Democrats, still searching for leadership and a plan.
 
@xyloscissor Apologies, I missed your post re the Mexico City Policy


Regarding the EPA 'gag' order, I'm in two minds about this - I don't think it is a smart move, but it is a government agency and hence it is not all that unreasonable that public releases of information from them are limited. As mentioned before, it's pretty ironic that Trump owes much of his new-found political success to posting anything he wants on Twitter, but never mind.

I was reading (briefly) this morning that it is not just the EPA but several government departments, including the USDA. USDA staff allegedly received an email telling them to refrain from releasing 'public-facing' content on social media, and the email was obtained (and published) by (wait for it...) Buzzfeed. With a Trump-sized slice of irony, the USDA later claimed that the email was 'flawed' and that the email was released "without departmental direction"...
 
I'm not following you on this.
Many of the Bernie supporters, like Trump supporters, were young, white, underemployed men and women blaming Clinton/Bush/Obama multilateral trade pacts for their economic distress. Trump is scooping these folks over into his camp with bilateral trade arrangements favoring US labor, products, energy and raw materials.
 
Many of the Bernie supporters, like Trump supporters, were young, white, underemployed men and women blaming Clinton/Bush/Obama multilateral trade pacts for their economic distress. Trump is scooping these folks over into his camp with bilateral trade arrangements favoring US labor, products, energy and raw materials.

I see, and yes that is true. Free trade however is not lost, didn't we start over regulating at some point(Clinton?) and that being a cause more than free trade. Oh and taxing ;)
 
I see, and yes that is true. Free trade however is not lost, didn't we start over regulating at some point(Clinton?) and that being a cause more than free trade. Oh and taxing ;)
Free trade IS lost. But fair trade is not.

Taxation is a crux issue. The promise was to cut it for business and the middle class. But also promised is a trillion dollar infrastructure program, which has the support of Democrats but not all Republicans who will resist the spending.
 
Free trade IS lost. But fair trade is not.
What is fair trade?

Like I said, US has always had better prices on things ie simply better deals. I think you are confused what fair means.

Fair would mean "worse" deals than what US had up to this date.
 
I don't know what that dig even means, we speak English and always have. The saying 'borders culture and language' however has a very specific meaning.

What is fair trade?

Like I said, US has always had better prices on things/better deals. I think you are confused what fair means.

Fair would mean "worse" deals than what US had up to this date.

Fair trade is all trade with all nations, you are speaking of advantage in trade. Let me see if we are all on the same page.

Washington
Harmony, liberal intercourse with all nations, are recommended by policy, humanity, and interest. But even our commercial policy should hold an equal and impartial hand; neither seeking nor granting exclusive favors or preferences; consulting the natural course of things; diffusing and diversifying by gentle means the streams of commerce, but forcing nothing; establishing (with powers so disposed, in order to give trade a stable course, to define the rights of our merchants, and to enable the government to support them) conventional rules of intercourse, the best that present circumstances and mutual opinion will permit, but temporary, and liable to be from time to time abandoned or varied, as experience and circumstances shall dictate; constantly keeping in view that it is folly in one nation to look for disinterested favors from another; that it must pay with a portion of its independence for whatever it may accept under that character; that, by such acceptance, it may place itself in the condition of having given equivalents for nominal favors, and yet of being reproached with ingratitude for not giving more. There can be no greater error than to expect or calculate upon real favors from nation to nation. It is an illusion, which experience must cure, which a just pride ought to discard.
 
What is fair trade?

Like I said, US has always had better prices on things/better deals. I think you are confused what fair means.
Fair trade means a two-way street, where the goods flow both ways and one side doesn't get to exclude the other's goods with onerous restrictions. For example, the US imports many cars from Germany and Japan, but Germany and Japan don't import hardly any cars from the US.
 
For example, the US imports many cars from Germany and Japan, but Germany and Japan don't import hardly any cars from the US.
But is a car for a car really a fair trade? All you're getting is what you're already giving away. If I export cars to you, I'm not going to ask for cars in return. I'm going to ask for something that I need, something that I can't make myself (or at least something that you are considerably better at making than I can).
 
But is a car for a car really a fair trade? All you're getting is what you're already giving away. If I export cars to you, I'm not going to ask for cars in return. I'm going to ask for something that I need, something that I can't make myself (or at least something that you are considerably better at making than I can).
At the end of the day, fair means fair. BOTH sides must economically benefit from the trade. That's the bottom line.
 
Fair trade means a two-way street, where the goods flow both ways and one side doesn't get to exclude the other's goods with onerous restrictions. For example, the US imports many cars from Germany and Japan, but Germany and Japan don't import hardly any cars from the US.

because we pay about 1.5€/L,1US gallon is 3.78L, for 1/4th gallon(about 1L) you pay 0.7€~0.7$ ie half the price for gasoline compared to us in Europe. No one expect for some muscle car enthusiast pay for such thirsty cars. Why do you think Japanese cars are so popular in US for example. Same here, no one wants a huge American gas-guzzling cars when there are cars from home countries that are better and cheaper and not that thirsty.

And what are you about, usually a car that is exported to US is cheaper in US then in its home country and sometimes even by half the price. Man, US pretty much always gets their will through.
 
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Fair trade means a two-way street, where the goods flow both ways and one side doesn't get to exclude the other's goods with onerous restrictions. For example, the US imports many cars from Germany and Japan, but Germany and Japan don't import hardly any cars from the US.
But Germany and Japan (arguably) make better cars designed for a global market, while a higher proportion of US cars are more appropriate for the US domestic market (though I am far from an expert on this, that's just the way I see it). If the US wants to export more cars to Germany, it needs to make better cars.
 
because we pay about 1.5€/L,1US gallon is 3.78L, for 1/4th gallon(about 1L) you pay 0.7€~0.7$ ie half the price for gasoline compared to us in Europe. No one expect for some muscle car enthusiast pay for such thirsty cars.

And what are you about, usually a car that is exported to US is cheaper in US then in its home country and sometimes even by half the price. Man, US pretty much always gets their will through.

Tax.

And you are missing the point, the U.S. cannot sustain giving more money out than we bring in. It is a simple concept.
 
Tax.

And you are missing the point, the U.S. cannot sustain giving more money out than we bring in. It is a simple concept.

You are not giving anything. US is the largest economy but compared to what it has in bmp(yet so many are poor) it helps no one if it will not benefit from it.

By using its leverage it forces the smaller countries to agree on the deals. That is the truth, US= bully :D

Fair deal= our products will be as expensive for you as here in Europe, maybe even more expensive because you need to pay for the transport/import too.

That is how it is for the rest of the world.
 
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You are not giving anything. US is the largest economy but compared to what it has in bmp(yet so many are poor) it helps no one if it will not benefit from it.

By using its leverage it forces the smaller countries to agree on the deals. That is the truth, US= bully :D

We give plenty, all sorts of favor in these silly trade pacts, in fact we defend Saudi Arabia for instance, now that is a pretty penny, lives for oil. The truth is we don't want the pacts anymore, why do you think Trump is in office?

How dare the U.S. protect it's interests and listen to it's people, it's so crazy I know when all these other countries know better for us. We learned from our struggle for independance to get away from that sort of thing only to see it slowly creep back in.

Looks to me like Trump is ready to go back and to me it's great, 1000% great. :lol: Seriously though I love the fact people are getting butt hurt. This is 'Murica!

You can't just force it to go back the way it was on a whim.
Yes we can, and we are.
 
There's a potent thought.

We are all doomed. By mortality, by cataclysm and sometimes by our own actions. I favor a separate thread to discuss.

No, it is still the America thread, "give me liberty or give me death" If anything I would think some others might be doomed, thus all the complaining ;)
 
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