America - The Official Thread

[prisonermonkeys]

Let the 2020 election campaign begin!

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2017-02-19/donald-trump-holds-first-post-election-rally/8284036

 

[Northstar]

Remind me, who complained about their opponents paying for supporters?

Have any of those ads from either "side" been proven as real? I've always figured someone posted one as a joke than it just kind of took on a life of its own.

 

[Sanji Himura]

In spoilers because of language. Is the Intelligence Community really that careless? I have lost all respect for Bill Kristol right about now.

Spoiler

 

[eran0004]

"Last night in Sweden"?

Didn't know president Rump was so invested in our national selection process for the Eurovision Song Contest. Not nice to blame Owe Thörnqvist's success on immigration though.

 

[Parker]

"Last night in Sweden"?

Didn't know president Rump was so invested in our national selection process for the Eurovision Song Contest. Not nice to blame Owe Thörnqvist's success on immigration though.

Who is President Rump?

 

[eran0004]

Who is President Rump?

Sorry. So-called president.

 

[Chrunch Houston]

Sorry. So-called president.

No less than the most powerful person on Planet Earth. The duly elected President of the United States of America.

Get used to it.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Who is President Rump?

Funnily enough that's less rude than his actual name, albeit related.

 

[Parker]

Sorry. So-called president.

Funnily enough that's less rude than his actual name, albeit related.

I was under the impression that we were to refer to Trump and Hillary by their actual names, I recall someone either getting banned or warned for referring to Hillary Clinton as "Killary," maybe I'm wrong, though. The President uses Trump as his last name now, so it doesn't matter what his actual last name is, in my opinion. He identifies as Trump, it would be very intolerant to refer to him as anything else.

 

[eran0004]

No less than the most powerful person on Planet Earth. The duly elected President of the United States of America.

Get used to it.

And you somehow managed to elect Berlusconi 2.0, the even buggier release. Well done.

I was under the impression that we were to refer to Trump and Hillary by their actual names /.../ He identifies as Trump, it would be very intolerant to refer to him as anything else.

My bad. Got confused by the things that come out of his mouth.

As for intolerance, no I don't tolerate his lies.

 

[Chrunch Houston]

And you somehow managed to elect Berlusconi 2.0, the even buggier release. Well done.

Whatever.

Americans are tired of subsidizing the rest of the world.

 

[Parker]

And you somehow managed to elect Berlusconi 2.0, the even buggier release. Well done.



My bad. Got confused by the things that come out of his mouth.

As for intolerance, no I don't tolerate his lies.

Nobody is asking for you to tolerate his lies but if you want to criticize him then don't be childish, we can have discussions without the name calling. Honestly, though I doubt you care, it makes it hard to take anyone seriously when they use names like that.

 

[eran0004]

Whatever.

Americans are tired of subsidizing the rest of the world.

And there are three ways to end it:

1. End America
2. End the world
3. End only the subsidising

I would have picked the third option, but hey that's just me.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Honestly, though I doubt you care, it makes it hard to take anyone seriously when they use names like that.

Point taken, and if the tone of this discussion has been pre-moderated then (although I haven't seen it) your comments are noted.

But he is called Trump... any child over three years-of-age will tell you what one of those is.

 

[Scaff]

Can we please stop with the name calling, and yes that does also apply to Trump.

It's not constructive, and those that have issue with him are not doing yourselves any favours.

A quite serious point (that he cited something that didn't happen) has been lost in a discussion about names.

 

[BobK]

Point taken, and if the tone of this discussion has been pre-moderated then (although I haven't seen it) your comments are noted.

But he is called Trump... any child over three years-of-age will tell you what one of those is.

I had never heard "trump" as a reference to flatulence until you started making same reference, and I'm somewhat beyond age 3. I'll concede, though, that repeatedly pointing out the reference is a bit childish.

 

[Dotini]

I don't know about Trump's digestion, but I'm certain he's incredibly dangerous for far more important reasons. The following video ought to stir the hairs on the back of your neck.



-------------------------------------------------------------

"Flynn's enemies waged this campaign by disclosing communications that we should be able to trust the government to monitor with proper discretion. Thanks to these leaks, that trust has eroded. "
https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-02-17/separating-fact-from-innuendo-in-the-flynn-fiasco


----------------------------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------------------------

As Eli Lake of Bloomberg News put it in an important article following Flynn's resignation,

"Normally intercepts of U.S. officials and citizens are some of the most tightly held government secrets. This is for good reason. Selectively disclosing details of private conversations monitored by the FBI or NSA gives the permanent state the power to destroy reputations from the cloak of anonymity. This is what police states do. [Bloomberg]"

Those cheering the deep state torpedoing of Flynn are saying, in effect, that a police state is perfectly fine so long as it helps to bring down Trump.
http://theweek.com/articles/680068/...-took-down-michael-flynn-that-deeply-worrying

 

[SlipZtrEm]

I could've swore we had a separate, dedicated conspiracy theory thread...

 

[Scaff]

I don't know about Trump's digestion, but I'm certain he's incredibly dangerous for far more important reasons. The following video ought to stir the hairs on the back of your neck.



-------------------------------------------------------------

"Flynn's enemies waged this campaign by disclosing communications that we should be able to trust the government to monitor with proper discretion. Thanks to these leaks, that trust has eroded. "
https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-02-17/separating-fact-from-innuendo-in-the-flynn-fiasco


----------------------------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------------------------

As Eli Lake of Bloomberg News put it in an important article following Flynn's resignation,

"Normally intercepts of U.S. officials and citizens are some of the most tightly held government secrets. This is for good reason. Selectively disclosing details of private conversations monitored by the FBI or NSA gives the permanent state the power to destroy reputations from the cloak of anonymity. This is what police states do. [Bloomberg]"

Those cheering the deep state torpedoing of Flynn are saying, in effect, that a police state is perfectly fine so long as it helps to bring down Trump.
http://theweek.com/articles/680068/...-took-down-michael-flynn-that-deeply-worrying

All of which assumes that it was Flynn they were monitoring. Of course it could have been the Russian ambassador they were monitoring, which is kind of the thing you have intelligence agencies for.

 

[Dotini]

You are both missing the point! It is illegal and wrong to leak secret intelligence monitoring. Therefore , there must be arrests.

 

[Scaff]

You are both missing the point! It is illegal and wrong to leak secret intelligence monitoring. Therefore , there must be arrests.

I agree, when is Flynn getting arrested along with those that leaked it?

 

[Dotini]

I agree, when is Flynn getting arrested along with those that leaked it?

IMO, and in my prediction, Flynn will not be arrested. He did absolutely nothing wrong or illegal, Logan Act notwithstanding.

IMO, and in my prediction, the individual(s) who leaked to the news media will be arrested, and perhaps also the reporter(s) and editor(s) who printed the classified information.

 

[Scaff]

IMO, and in my prediction, Flynn will not be arrested. He did absolutely nothing wrong or illegal, Logan Act notwithstanding.

IMO, and in my prediction, the individual(s) who leaked to the news media will be arrested, and perhaps also the reporter(s) and editor(s) who printed the classified information.

So your happy to ignore one law and then enforce another?

Seems rather subjective, not to mention a rather strong waft of bias.

 

[Dotini]

So your happy to ignore one law and then enforce another?

Seems rather subjective, not to mention a rather strong waft of bias.

No, I'm not happy to ignore one law and enforce another. I'm simply being objective. The Logan Act is a total dead letter. And nobody went after whistleblowers more than Obama. Trump will match and even excel him.

My bias, if any, is against a police state. What is yours? Are you for a police state?

 

[Scaff]

No, I'm not happy to ignore one law and enforce another. I'm simply being objective. The Logan Act is a total dead letter. And nobody went after whistleblowers more than Obama. Trump will match and even excel him.

My bias, if any, is against a police state. What is yours? Are you for a police state?

How on earth did you make that leap?

I'm simply about the equal application of the law, surely it's status as a dead letter is a matter for the judiciary.

 

[Dotini]

it's status as a dead letter is a matter for the judiciary.

No, it's a matter for the DA. No one has ever been prosecuted under The Logan Act. It's very likely unconstitutional. I recommend you abandon this futile argument and get another - there are plenty of them. Your brain and your pen have better uses.

 

[Scaff]

No, it's a matter for the DA. No one has ever been prosecuted under The Logan Act. It's very likely unconstitutional. I recommend you abandon this futile argument and get another - there are plenty of them. Your brain and your pen have better uses.

And yet it's still on the books, so given that this is the time for it to either be used or removed.

 

[Dotini]

And yet it's still on the books, so given that this is the time for it to either be used or removed.

 

[Sanji Himura]

How on earth did you make that leap?

I'm simply about the equal application of the law, surely it's status as a dead letter is a matter for the judiciary.

What @Dotini is saying, and I am not trying to put words into his mouth here, The Logan Act only applies to those people who undermine the official position of the United States regarding foreign governments. Anyone who travels to North Korea to meet with Kim Jong Un (like Dennis Rodman did on at least seven occasions since 2013 to 2014 and wasn't charged), could be seen as a violation of the Logan Act because the Government does not maintain friendly relations with North Korea. Anyone who travels from the United States to fight for ISIS could be seen as a violation of the Logan Act as the US doesn't even recognize ISIS. In the case of ISIS, however, we do have stronger laws in the books for those who do go out and fight for ISIS.

Russia is a bit different since our position has changed over the last 33+ years. As far as I know, the Trump administration has not taken an official stance on Russia, and thus Flynn may or may not be violating the Logan Act. Flynn would have to be investigated by the Attorney General and dealt with accordingly.

 

[TenEightyOne]

And yet it's still on the books, so given that this is the time for it to either be used or removed.

Probably removed... the test is "intent" which is always a very protracted, expensive and most-likely unsuccessful issue to prosecute. That opinion shouldn't detract from the clear facts in this case though.