America - The Official Thread

[Pillo-san]

I'm looking at you Carl Bildt, I'm also looking at you too Huffpo. You know, that time when you mocked Trump for saying Sweden had a problem with terrorism....


Trump: "Sweden, who would believe this? Sweden. They took in large numbers. They're having problems like they never thought possible. You look at what's happening in Brussels. You look at what's happening all over the world. Take a look at Nice. Take a look at Paris."

Carl Bildt

✔ @carlbildt

Sweden? Terror attack? What has he been smoking? Questions abound. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-sweden-terror-lie_us_58a8f397e4b045cd34c263d3 …

Wtf are you smoking?

Because something becomes true at a later time does it mean that Trump had it right? Calling suddenly out a country with, look what happened to it yesterday like if a terrorist deed happened on a Friday seems more like prematurely reading of the script if you put your tinfoil hat on Or, or simply a speech like this will be giving those that support Isis and have probably a meltdown, ideas that they never had or dared to go through with.

And this statement about that country like sweden are taking "them" in by large numbers, well someone needs to take responsibility in the world and try at least to help "them", I mean wouldn't it be fair if USA took care of the mess it created?

You sir, have nor right to talk about this kind of things and if countries like sweden are doing right or wrong when all your country is doing is wrong wrong and more wrong doings.

Your post is a mockery, you should be ashamed to even post this kind of post.

 

[Rage Racer]

Russians where evacuated from the airbase that stocked the chemical weapons.

So there was a risk of poison gas leak after the missile strike but the Russian journos walked there without any chemical protection? They must be supermen who are immune to chemical weapons.

 

[Joey D]

You sir, have nor right to talk about this kind of things and if countries like sweden are doing right or wrong when all your country is doing is wrong wrong and more wrong doings.

Your post is a mockery, you should be ashamed to even post this kind of post.

American citizens are not the American government. We, as citizens, aren't responsible for the attack on Syria, especially so since Congress didn't even vote on the attack. So yes, we, as citizens, have the right to talk about things going on in other countries.

===

When a sad song comes on and you stare out the window pretending you're in a music video:

 

[DDastardly00]

Wtf are you smoking?

Because something becomes true at a later time does it mean that Trump had it right? Calling suddenly out a country with, look what happened to it yesterday like if a terrorist deed happened on a Friday seems more like prematurely reading of the script if you put your tinfoil hat on Or, or simply a speech like this will be giving those that support Isis and have probably a meltdown, ideas that they never had or dared to go through with.

And this statement about that country like sweden are taking "them" in by large numbers, well someone needs to take responsibility in the world and try at least to help "them", I mean wouldn't it be fair if USA took care of the mess it created?

You sir, have nor right to talk about this kind of things and if countries like sweden are doing right or wrong when all your country is doing is wrong wrong and more wrong doings.

Your post is a mockery, you should be ashamed to even post this kind of post.

Calm down sport.

I didn't "call out a country". I called out a specific person and Media company, who by the way, are now are looking pretty stupid. I can tell from you nationalistic tone that a rational discussion cannot be had with you, so good day sir.

 

[catamount39]

American citizens are not the American government. We, as citizens, aren't responsible for the attack on Syria, especially so since Congress didn't even vote on the attack. So yes, we, as citizens, have the right to talk about things going on in other countries.

===

When a sad song comes on and you stare out the window pretending you're in a music video:

^Houston Texans fans when Tony Romo retired, and they're only hope of getting a good QB went up in smoke.

 

[Pillo-san]

Calm down sport.

I didn't "call out a country". I called out a specific person and Media company, who by the way, are now are looking pretty stupid. I can tell from you nationalistic tone that a rational discussion cannot be had with you, so good day sir.

???

You took up what Trump said, what he did ie call out an entire country like it had something bad happened the day before yet it did not and even if he simple was confused because of his age when he watched Fox and wanted to point out like Sweden had some extreme immigrant/terrorist problems. You only need to look at your own country with all the shootings/incidents and the state your country is in, you cant even compare the two countries in that regard and yet you listen to what Trump says when he tries to make you look the other way, ie he tries to direct you away from the issues at hand in your own country and you blatantly swallow his "good night stories".

You did not call out a country but you did take sides with your best pal the orange dictatoresque potato for president and at a time when it is not needed thank you very much.

 

[IforceV8]

So there was a risk of poison gas leak after the missile strike but the Russian journos walked there without any chemical protection? They must be supermen who are immune to chemical weapons.

I'm not a chemical weapons engineer but it seem that Sarin is a binary agent, remember Die Hard III and the ship? https://www.bellingcat.com/news/men...n-sheikhoun-chemical-warehouse-attack-claims/ Unless they were planning another gas attack with the whole world watching it doesnt make much sense to leave Sarin gas shells laying around does it if they arent going to be used.

And since those Russian military advisors were leaving anyway they might as well take the Sarin making ingredients with them, no sense leaving evidence of war crimes behind.

 

[DDastardly00]

???

You took up what Trump said, what he did ie call out an entire country like it had something bad happened the day before yet it did not and even if he simple was confused because of his age when he watched Fox and wanted to point out like Sweden had some extreme immigrant/terrorist problems. You only need to look at your own country with all the shootings/incidents and the state your country is in, you cant even compare the two countries in that regard and yet you listen to what Trump says when he tries to make you look the other way, ie he tries to direct you away from the issues at hand in your own country and you blatantly swallow his "good night stories".

You did not call out a country but you did take sides with your best pal the orange dictatoresque potato for president and at a time when it is not needed thank you very much.

Like I said, a rational discussion cannot be had with you. What you posted is essentially gibberish. Why don't you calm down and try again. This time, please try to stay on topic. Look at what I said one more time, I said Carl Bildt and Huffpo are looking pretty stupid right about now (for mocking what Trump said). That's it, nothing more and nothing less. If you disagree, fine. And no, Trump is not my pal, I think I have posted enough here to get that point across many times over.

Now let's examine what Trump said, he said taking in these Refugees is causing a big problem in Brussels, France, and that Sweden should be very careful. In essence that is what he was saying and he was foolishly mocked for that by Carl Bildt, Huffpo (and others). Now, tell me, was Trump Wrong? No, clearly he wasn't.

Finally, please stop pretending that Assad had nothing to do with the turmoil in his own country and stop with "it's all America's fault" gibberish. Sure, we share some of the blame, and you can thank the CIA and Obama's proxy wars for that, not Trump.

 

[Northstar]

he looks like the village idiot.

What do you mean he looks like the village idiot?

I mean wouldn't it be fair if USA took care of the mess it created?

We're waiting for England, France and Spain to start, they royally messed up the world first after all.

 

[Biggles]

Now let's examine what Trump said, he said taking in these Refugees is causing a big problem in Brussels, France, and that Sweden should be very careful. In essence that is what he was saying and he was foolishly mocked for that by Carl Bildt, Huffpo (and others). Now, tell me, was Trump Wrong? No, clearly he wasn't..

Yes, he was, because he cited problems that had not actually occurred ... what has come to be known as "fake news". I think everyone understands that there are potential risks in taking in refugees or immigrants - it's a question of weighing those risks against the humanitarian benefits.

If you want to look at it from another perspective, most Europeans consider that the ready availability of guns in the US represents a risk, but most Americans seem to accept that over 11,000 gun homicide deaths a year (a figure that dwarfs the number of people killed by terrorists) is an acceptable risk weighed against the right to own firearms.

 

[DDastardly00]

Yes, he was, because he cited problems that had not actually occurred ... what has come to be known as "fake news". I think everyone understands that there are potential risks in taking in refugees or immigrants - it's a question of weighing those risks against the humanitarian benefits.

If you want to look at it from another perspective, most Europeans consider that the ready availability of guns in the US represents a risk, but most Americans seem to accept that over 11,000 gun homicide deaths a year (a figure that dwarfs the number of people killed by terrorists) is an acceptable risk weighed against the right to own firearms.

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I guess that depends on what "problems" Trump was citing. If you believe Sarah Huckabee Sanders and Trump's own clarification on the quote, then Trump was citing Ami Horowitz from a Fox News interview where she said that Sweden is facing an immigrant crime wave, no mention of terrorism was made. Carl Bildt jumped to that conclusion on his own. The "last night" part of the quote is rather ambiguous though, no idea what he was citing there. If that is the case, then I'll amend my view and say that Trump is at least half correct. The context of what he was saying was that you have to go about the vetting process very carefully and I don't disagree with him there.

 

[Imari]

What do you mean he looks like the village idiot?

I have it on good authority that he also smells like the village idiot.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Now let's examine what Trump said, he said taking in these Refugees is causing a big problem in Brussels, France, and that Sweden should be very careful. In essence that is what he was saying and he was foolishly mocked for that by Carl Bildt, Huffpo (and others). Now, tell me, was Trump Wrong? No, clearly he wasn't.

Well, there's another thread where that's been discussed in detail and the numerical, sourceable evidence is that they aren't causing a big problem. They're causing problems broadly in line with the existing population... in Sweden they're causing problems far below the rate at which the existing population are.

High-profile murders (like the murder of four people in Sweden yesterday) still occur at a vastly lower rate than "other" murders, the other murders just don't get the international TV time. That means that viewers (like Trump) who see TV time as directly correlating to statistical significance believe the coverage must be of a yuge problem. Sadly that kind of kneejerk focus ignores many actual problems. That's fine in a bloke-in-a-pub context because the change in outcomes is likely negligible, it's more worrying from the president of a large country.

 

[FoRiZon]

Putin was desiring Trump to the point Clinton accused Trump for being Russian puppet.

Now Putin got angry that his ally got bombed.

I assume that its very easy to just criticize others but cant do it on his own especially on his tweets. I knew i cant buy any Trump says on campaign apart from the immigration issue.

US Government interests are really "amusing" however. Don't believe under Clinton the attack is stopped anyways. But also don't believe Trump is a paragon of anti wars either. US being US regardless of whose the president (government, that is).

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Now let's examine what Trump said, he said taking in these Refugees is causing a big problem in Brussels, France, and that Sweden should be very careful. In essence that is what he was saying and he was foolishly mocked for that by Carl Bildt, Huffpo (and others). Now, tell me, was Trump Wrong? No, clearly he wasn't.

Actually, he was completely wrong. He was talking about refugees when he should have been talking about asylum seekers.

There is a legal distinction between refugees and asylum seekers. This is not as issue of semantics - it outlines a country's obligations to both, which are different depending on whether someone is a refugee or an asylum seeker. When refugees leave their homes, they have no control over where they are going and they often don't care so long as it's somewhere else. Asylum seekers, on the other hand, have the power to choose where they settle (or at least claim asylum).

When Trump was talking about refugees, he was actually referring to asylum seekers, so the implications of what he said change dramatically. But it's okay - he's only the President and he only got himself elected on a platform of immigration reform. Why should we expect him to know what is quite literally the first thing about refugees?

 

[Scaff]

I guess that depends on what "problems" Trump was citing. If you believe Sarah Huckabee Sanders and Trump's own clarification on the quote, then Trump was citing Ami Horowitz from a Fox News interview where she said that Sweden is facing an immigrant crime wave, no mention of terrorism was made. Carl Bildt jumped to that conclusion on his own. The "last night" part of the quote is rather ambiguous though, no idea what he was citing there. If that is the case, then I'll amend my view and say that Trump is at least half correct. The context of what he was saying was that you have to go about the vetting process very carefully and I don't disagree with him there.

The problem with that argument is that it's wrong.

The are not facing a crime wave, overall crime rates are dropping or roughly static, these claims come from cherry picking data to support a position someone wants to show. Namely that crime and in particular sexual crime and gang related crime have increased in line with immigration.

Now the former appears to show an increase only if you utterly ignores the fact that Sweden changed how it measures sexual assaults, rape, etc years before the immigration increase.

The later is a supposition that immigration has brought gang related crime with it, yet ignores the fact that Sweden has had an issue with extremely violent gang related crime for decades before. Including bombings, assassination and the use of heavy military weapons (including anti tank weapons stolen from the Swedish army).

So no Trump wasn't half right, he's working with data that has been specifically constructed to be missleading. So are you and the concern for me is how happy people are to accept it blindly because 'foreign people'.

You seem to forget that the majority of terrorist attacks in the west since the large scale refugee crisis started have been carried out by homegrown terrorists not migrant ones.

However continue to persecute those fleeing terror and you will soon create your own self forefilling prophecy. After all Trump is happy to spend 26 odd million in am ineffective missile attack in Syria, but do nothing to help those fleeing the regime he just attacked.

 

[Michael88]

ok at it from another perspective, most Europeans consider that the ready availability of guns in the US represents a risk, but most Americans seem to accept that over 11,000 gun homicide deaths a year (a figure that dwarfs the number of people killed by terrorists) is an acceptable risk weighed against the right to own firearms.

1. You can't talk for ''Most Europeans''. I'm a European, I find the lack of legal gun ownership a risk since those who do not care about laws simply keep their guns. Gang members who have illegal weapons are the dangerous people, not average Joe owning a shotgun to shoot clay with.
However, average Joe could have used the shotgun to defend himself and his family in case of a home invasion, but now he can't, but the burglar still has his illegal gun. Thats not good.

2. Crazy thought: maybe the majority of the gun deaths in the US has nothing do with legal gun ownership but criminal organizations and criminals shooting people? I've heard criminals like to shoot people a lot more than the average legal gun owner and I've also heard those gang bangers do not follow gun laws at all.

 

[Northstar]

I do think we have a gun problem in the U.S., but it's not how many there are. Homicides don't really matter in this debate as once you use a gun to shoot someone intentionally you no longer have a legal right to own one. No, the problem is a good number of legal gun owners are improperly trained and don't properly store their gun or handle it improperly, leading to accidental deaths. I think better training and a 1st degree murder charge in the event someone is killed by your carelessness would go a long way.

There is also a massive suicide problem in the states and gun related suicides count for 62% of gun deaths. If anything this just highlights our piss poor mental health system.

I have it on good authority that he also smells like the village idiot.

I've heard recordings and they both sound eerily the same. I wonder if they're related?

 

[Sanji Himura]

Actually, he was completely wrong. He was talking about refugees when he should have been talking about asylum seekers.

There is a legal distinction between refugees and asylum seekers. This is not as issue of semantics - it outlines a country's obligations to both, which are different depending on whether someone is a refugee or an asylum seeker. When refugees leave their homes, they have no control over where they are going and they often don't care so long as it's somewhere else. Asylum seekers, on the other hand, have the power to choose where they settle (or at least claim asylum).

When Trump was talking about refugees, he was actually referring to asylum seekers, so the implications of what he said change dramatically. But it's okay - he's only the President and he only got himself elected on a platform of immigration reform. Why should we expect him to know what is quite literally the first thing about refugees?

Question is the media really painting that distinction? Because to be honest, they haven't been really that clear in the press, outside of a few fringe outlets (and even then they refer to the current immigration crisis as the latter), and have been referring them as refugees for narration's sake.

If you don't believe me, I'll make this argument again. Normal refugee patterns would have any perspective person that is fleeing from a war zone to flee to the closest country that makes them feel safe with the intention to return to their homes as soon as the immediate crisis is over. But the Syrian refugees have been fleeing to as far as the US, Canada and the UK, and not Jordan, Saudi Arabia, you name it. Why buck the trend?

 

[Scaff]

Question is the media really painting that distinction? Because to be honest, they haven't been really that clear in the press, outside of a few fringe outlets (and even then they refer to the current immigration crisis as the latter), and have been referring them as refugees for narration's sake.

If you don't believe me, I'll make this argument again. Normal refugee patterns would have any perspective person that is fleeing from a war zone to flee to the closest country that makes them feel safe with the intention to return to their homes as soon as the immediate crisis is over. But the Syrian refugees have been fleeing to as far as the US, Canada and the UK, and not Jordan, Saudi Arabia, you name it. Why buck the trend?

Are you actually aware of the number of refugees in those neighbouring countries, such as Jordan and Lebanon?

The largest number of refugees are in those locations, now as far as Saudi goes I would 100% agree that they could do more. However to say that refugees should flee to Saudi kind of forgets a few things about geography.

Now as to why they then flee to other countries, well that has a little bit to do with the UNHCR balancing of refugees and also to do with second language countries being a popular location to go to (and that has a lot to do with former empire building on some countries part).

Go take a look at the countries that currently host the largest numbers of refugees and then come back and list them.

 

[FoRiZon]

Speaking of gun deaths in US, do you know that most of it are actually suicides?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States#Suicides

Guns may or may not make a place more dangerous. But it's an easy and quick way to take own life's.

 

[Dotini]

But also don't believe Trump is a paragon of anti wars either. US being US regardless of whose the president (government, that is).

Trump campaigned as antiwar. But now he is being prevailed upon as a necessity of both geopolitics and national politics to bomb the hell out of Assad - or someone. This has less do with Assad's actual crimes, and more to do with digging his own presidency out of a hole. This will give the US moral high-ground leverage in coming Middle East negotiations, and flip the domestic narrative of widespread doubt or criticism of Trump's foreign policies and relations with Russia. In short, Trump is manipulating events and the news to his practical political advantage. It's what he does best.

 

[FoRiZon]

Trump is manipulating events and the news to his practical political advantage. It's what he does best.

So its like typical politicians then

Probably even worse though since its America we're talking about.

 

[Dotini]

So its like typical politicians then

Probably even worse though because its America we talking about.

America is currently bombing 7 countries with drones. Empire is no easy matter for us, and possibly even less so for you.

 

[Scaff]

Trump campaigned as antiwar. But now he is being prevailed upon as a necessity of both geopolitics and national politics to bomb the hell out of Assad - or someone. This has less do with Assad's actual crimes, and more to do with digging his own presidency out of a hole. This will give the US moral high-ground leverage in coming Middle East negotiations, and flip the domestic narrative of widespread doubt or criticism of Trump's foreign policies and relations with Russia. In short, Trump is manipulating events and the news to his practical political advantage. It's what he does best.

Wag the dog.

Great film and arguably appropriate.

 

[Biggles]

1. You can't talk for ''Most Europeans''. I'm a European, I find the lack of legal gun ownership a risk since those who do not care about laws simply keep their guns. Gang members who have illegal weapons are the dangerous people, not average Joe owning a shotgun to shoot clay with.
However, average Joe could have used the shotgun to defend himself and his family in case of a home invasion, but now he can't, but the burglar still has his illegal gun. Thats not good.

2. Crazy thought: maybe the majority of the gun deaths in the US has nothing do with legal gun ownership but criminal organizations and criminals shooting people? I've heard criminals like to shoot people a lot more than the average legal gun owner and I've also heard those gang bangers do not follow gun laws at all.

My point was not at all about the pros & cons of gun control, it was about how people in different countries might have very different attitudes towards issues - like refugees ... or gun violence. No, I can't talk for most Europeans ... but apparently you think you can. Statistics would be more meaningful in this regard. I'm not sure what the statistics indicate in Austria, but in the UK, which already had very strict gun laws, this is what a survey in 2005 showed:

I would suggest that what Trump has done around the question of immigration, as with most issues that came up during his run for the Presidency, is to appeal to emotion & fear rather than reality based fact.

 

[Rage Racer]

2012. Look who's talking.

 

[catamount39]

2012. Look who's talking.

Biggest ****ing piece of **** hypocrite ever he is.

 

[Northstar]

Or was he just announcing his own gameplan extremely early? 💡

 

[catamount39]

Or was he just announcing his own gameplan extremely early? 💡

^This man gets it.