America - The Official Thread

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A joint NATO offensive could easily 'liberate' Syria in 3-6 months.

Or why can't the UN Security Council call a ceasefire, organize elections, and assist in setting up a new government, rather than watching a hellhole burning eternally under a failed government?

Half a million deaths have to prompt a response from someone in the west, right? I mean I don't want the US to be the international policeman, but there's a serious crisis in the Middle East, and we're standing by doing nothing. Some serious action has to be taken.

The sad thing is that if the Syrian Opposition (FSA and/or Al Nusra) succeed in overthrowing the government, they'll install something completely radical, while if the Syrian Government succeed in defeating the opposition, it'll lead to the status quo, with another civil war on the horizon.
 
A joint NATO offensive could easily 'liberate' Syria in 3-6 months.
Because the "Coalition of the Willing" worked so well in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Or why can't the UN Security Council call a ceasefire, organize elections, and assist in setting up a new government, rather than watching a hellhole burning eternally under a failed government?
Assad won't go down without a fight.
 
A joint NATO offensive could easily 'liberate' Syria in 3-6 months.

Possibly, at the cost of killing half the country. There's no point curing the disease if it kills the patient.

Or why can't the UN Security Council call a ceasefire, organize elections, and assist in setting up a new government, rather than watching a hellhole burning eternally under a failed government?

Because it doesn't work like that. Sudan. Iraq. Afghanistan. It sounds simple, but the reality is that major military intervention simply removes all legitimate government and you end up with anarchy.

Half a million deaths have to prompt a response from someone in the west, right? I mean I don't want the US to be the international policeman, but there's a serious crisis in the Middle East, and we're standing by doing nothing. Some serious action has to be taken.

Why? Standing back and letting countries solve their own problems is a valid response also, albeit one that requires consideration before doing so.

The sad thing is that if the Syrian Opposition (FSA and/or Al Nusra) succeed in overthrowing the government, they'll install something completely radical, while if the Syrian Government succeed in defeating the opposition, it'll lead to the status quo, with another civil war on the horizon.

There's your problem with military intervention right there. If you take out both then you might as well make it another state of America, because the US will have to be there enforcing order for the next 20-50 years. Governments do not work unless they're either supported by the people or have the vast majority of the populace cowed and under control.

A puppet government installed by a foreign power through military force does neither.
 
No, I can't talk for most Europeans ... but apparently you think you can. Statistics would be more meaningful in this regard. I'm not sure what the statistics indicate in Austria, but in the UK, which already had very strict gun laws, this is what a survey in 2005 showed:

View attachment 639832
I'm not talking for anyone but myself, I'm only using basic logics to support my stance about legal gun ownership.

The problem with statistics is, I don't believe any of them as it is very easy to forge them to your liking. I know people who are paid to make statistics and they say: never trust a statistic you didn't forge yourself.
It always makes me laugh when people in a heated Internet argument start throwing statistics around as they're pretty much meaningless.
 
Statistics would be more meaningful in this regard. I'm not sure what the statistics indicate in Austria, but in the UK, which already had very strict gun laws, this is what a survey in 2005 showed:
Except statistics have to be seen in context. Most British people thing guns are illegal in the UK, that's incorrect. I know several legal gun owners and I've personally fired privately owned weapons including a machine gun. Shotgun ownership is also relatively 'easy' and is not uncommon in rural and semi rural communities.

That's not to say gun ownership in the UK is easy, but the public perception and the public stigma of gun ownership in many parts of the UK doesn't actually align to their legal position.

But gun culture has always been different in the UK, with even the Police on the whole being against the widespread carrying of firearms (though don't be fooled, you're rarely too far from an armed response unit).
 
Comical on one hand but the increased wait time getting through to 911 could cost lives. If they catch the person I hope he's charged with a lot more than just mischief.

The best part is the rep from the Campaign For The Bleeding Obvious:

CFTBO
Locating the hacker, however, "is going to be a very long process if we do find out who actually did it," Vaz said.
 
I'd like to know what motivated whoever did it: was it a serious attempt to disrupt things, or was it somebody just doing it for the lulz?
 
I'd like to know what motivated whoever did it: was it a serious attempt to disrupt things, or was it somebody just doing it for the lulz?

Depends on the hacking/cracking being done. It could be done for that reason, or it could have been done to prove and demonstrate an actual issue with the system in current use. Typically though this is done in a more discreet manner. It could have been done to prove it could be done for a more large scale disruption of electronic warning emergency systems. OR it could have been done to get some type of acknowledgement among others like them.

It's never as clear as the media makes it seem, where it is all a childish prank or something
 
This has become national news, but a hacker has set off all of the emergency alarms in Dallas last night. As of press time, he still is at large, though he is still believed to be in the Dallas area.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...rs-all-156-emergency-sirens-dallas/100212412/
Was wondering what all that was about. Caused a lot of people to fear if we had a storm pop up out of nowhere as we just went through a major front a few days prior.

Was eerie as hell hearing them.
 
So who here flies with United Airlines?

Since when is it bad to call in the jackboots to enforce the voluntary compliance of a paying customer? ;) Based on the over 1 million tweets about this today "overbooking" should not be a big issue moving forward.
 
Is there any more authoritarian/fascist industry than the airline industry? I would ask if the USAF is the most right wing/authoritarian of our military services?
 
I've always wondered how overbooking flights is legal, it seems like any other industry would be in major trouble if they regularly sold more than they could deliver.
 
Unfortunately for United Airlines, they messed with a doctor who was suppose to fly over to some patients. They can probably bully an average Joe, but a doctor? Better be ready for a lawsuit.
I've always wondered how overbooking flights is legal, it seems like any other industry would be in major trouble if they regularly sold more than they could deliver.
Isn't that also the case with exceeding a building's occupancy?
 
Is there any more authoritarian/fascist industry than the airline industry? I would ask if the USAF is the most right wing/authoritarian of our military services?
What does the Airline industry being "authoritarian/fascist", have anything to do with the Air Force?
 
Pretty obviously United uber-stepped the mark on this - locked into an over-reaching sense of authority & entitlement that was communicated to the Aviation Police who then proceeded with fascistic resolve. A more obvious tactic would have been to continue to increase the "compensation" & try harder to find another willing party. I'm going to go out on a limb & predict the law suit & the bad publicity will cost them more than $800. Be interesting to see what happens to United's stock price tomorrow.
 
Pretty obviously United uber-stepped the mark on this - locked into an over-reaching sense of authority & entitlement that was communicated to the Aviation Police who then proceeded with fascistic resolve. A more obvious tactic would have been to continue to increase the "compensation" & try harder to find another willing party. I'm going to go out on a limb & predict the law suit & the bad publicity will cost them more than $800. Be interesting to see what happens to United's stock price tomorrow.
As of 7:40 PM EDT, they are currently down 1.29% (-0.92) in after hours trading at 70.60. Not entirely sure if United trades in Tokyo, Hong Kong or London as I can't get any of that information.

Yes, it will trend down in pre-market trading tomorrow.
 
law suit & the bad publicity will cost them more than $800. Be interesting to see what happens to United's stock price tomorrow.

There won't be any (successful) lawsuit as United did nothing legally wrong. I would say the bad publicity will hurt them, but airlines are already frowned upon to the point where crap like this can't do much damage.

Here's the regulations regarding overbooked flights if you're interested.

Overbooking
Overbooking is not illegal, and most airlines overbook their scheduled flights to a certain extent in order to compensate for "no-shows." Passengers are sometimes left behind or "bumped" as a result. When an oversale occurs, the Department of Transportation (DOT) requires airlines to ask people who aren't in a hurry to give up their seats voluntarily, in exchange for compensation. Those passengers bumped against their will are, with a few exceptions, entitled to compensation.

Voluntary Bumping

Almost any planeload of airline passengers includes some people with urgent travel needs and others who may be more concerned about the cost of their tickets than about getting to their destination on time. DOT rules require airlines to seek out people who are willing to give up their seats for compensation before bumping anyone involuntarily. Here's how this works. At the check-in or boarding area, airline employees will look for volunteers when it appears that the flight has been oversold. If you're not in a rush to arrive at your next destination, you can give your reservation back to the airline in exchange for compensation and a later flight. But before you do this, you may want to get answers to these important questions:

  • When is the next flight on which the airline can confirm your seat? The alternate flight may be just as acceptable to you. On the other hand, if the airline offers to put you on standby on another flight that's full, you could be stranded.
  • Will the airline provide other amenities such as free meals, a hotel room, transfers between the hotel and the airport, and a phone card? If not, you might have to spend the money it offers you on food or lodging while you wait for the next flight.
DOT has not mandated the form or amount of compensation that airlines offer to volunteers. DOT does, however, require airlines to advise any volunteer whether he or she might be involuntarily bumped and, if that were to occur, the amount of compensation that would be due. Carriers can negotiate with their passengers for mutually acceptable compensation. Airlines generally offer a free trip or other transportation benefits to prospective volunteers. The airlines give employees guidelines for bargaining with passengers, and they may select those volunteers willing to sell back their reservations for the lowest price. If the airline offers you a free ticket or a transportation voucher in a certain dollar amount, ask about restrictions. How long is the ticket or voucher good for? Is it "blacked out" during holiday periods when you might want to use it? Can it be used for international flights?

Involuntary Bumping

DOT requires each airline to give all passengers who are bumped involuntarily a written statement describing their rights and explaining how the carrier decides who gets on an oversold flight and who doesn't. Those travelers who don't get to fly are frequently entitled to denied boarding compensation in the form of a check or cash. The amount depends on the price of their ticket and the length of the delay:

  • If you are bumped involuntarily and the airline arranges substitute transportation that is scheduled to get you to your final destination (including later connections) within one hour of your original scheduled arrival time, there is no compensation.
  • If the airline arranges substitute transportation that is scheduled to arrive at your destination between one and two hours after your original arrival time (between one and four hours on international flights), the airline must pay you an amount equal to 200% of your one-way fare to your final destination that day, with a $675 maximum.
  • If the substitute transportation is scheduled to get you to your destination more than two hours later (four hours internationally), or if the airline does not make any substitute travel arrangements for you, the compensation doubles (400% of your one-way fare, $1350 maximum).
  • If your ticket does not show a fare (for example, a frequent-flyer award ticket or a ticket issued by a consolidator), your denied boarding compensation is based on the lowest cash, check or credit card payment charged for a ticket in the same class of service (e.g., coach, first class) on that flight.
  • You always get to keep your original ticket and use it on another flight. If you choose to make your own arrangements, you can request an "involuntary refund" for the ticket for the flight you were bumped from. The denied boarding compensation is essentially a payment for your inconvenience.
  • If you paid for optional services on your original flight (e.g., seat selection, checked baggage) and you did not receive those services on your substitute flight or were required to pay a second time, the airline that bumped you must refund those payments to you.
Like all rules, however, there are a few conditions and exceptions:

  • To be eligible for compensation, you must have a confirmed reservation. A written confirmation issued by the airline or an authorized agent or reservation service qualifies you in this regard even if the airline can't find your reservation in the computer, as long as you didn't cancel your reservation or miss a reconfirmation deadline.
  • Each airline has a check-in deadline, which is the amount of time before scheduled departure that you must present yourself to the airline at the airport. For domestic flights most carriers require you to be at the departure gate between 10 minutes and 30 minutes before scheduled departure, but some deadlines can be an hour or longer. Check-in deadlines on international flights can be as much as three hours before scheduled departure time. Some airlines may simply require you to be at the ticket/baggage counter by this time; most, however, require that you get all the way to the boarding area. Some may have deadlines at both locations. If you miss the check-in deadline, you may have lost your reservation and your right to compensation if the flight is oversold.
As noted above, no compensation is due if the airline arranges substitute transportation which is scheduled to arrive at your destination within one hour of your originally scheduled arrival time.

If the airline must substitute a smaller plane for the one it originally planned to use, the carrier isn't required to pay people who are bumped as a result. In addition, on flights using aircraft with 30 through 60 passenger seats, compensation is not required if you were bumped due to safety-related aircraft weight or balance constraints.

The rules do not apply to charter flights, or to scheduled flights operated with planes that hold fewer than 30 passengers. They don't apply to international flights inbound to the United States, although some airlines on these routes may follow them voluntarily. Also, if you are flying between two foreign cities -- from Paris to Rome, for example -- these rules will not apply. The European Commission has a rule on bumpings that occur in an EC country; ask the airline for details, or go to http://ec.europa.eu/transport/passengers/air/air_en.htm [external link].

Airlines set their own "boarding priorities" -- the order in which they will bump different categories of passengers in an oversale situation. When a flight is oversold and there are not enough volunteers, some airlines bump passengers with the lowest fares first. Others bump the last passengers to check in. Once you have purchased your ticket, the most effective way to reduce the risk of being bumped is to get to the airport early. For passengers in the same fare class the last passengers to check in are usually the first to be bumped, even if they have met the check-in deadline. Allow extra time; assume that the roads are backed up, the parking lot is full, and there is a long line at the check-in counter.

Airlines may offer free tickets or dollar-amount vouchers for future flights in place of a check for denied boarding compensation. However, if you are bumped involuntarily you have the right to insist on a check if that is your preference. Once you cash the check (or accept the free flight), you will probably lose the ability to pursue more money from the airline later on. However, if being bumped costs you more money than the airline will pay you at the airport, you can try to negotiate a higher settlement with their complaint department. If this doesn't work, you usually have 30 days from the date on the check to decide if you want to accept the amount of the check. You are always free to decline the check (e.g., not cash it) and take the airline to court to try to obtain more compensation. DOT's denied boarding regulation spells out the airlines' minimum obligation to people they bump involuntarily. Finally, don't be a "no-show." If you are holding confirmed reservations you don't plan to use, notify the airline. If you don't, they will cancel all onward or return reservations on your trip.

https://www.transportation.gov/airconsumer/fly-rights
 
There won't be any (successful) lawsuit as United did nothing legally wrong. I would say the bad publicity will hurt them, but airlines are already frowned upon to the point where crap like this can't do much damage.

Here's the regulations regarding overbooked flights if you're interested.

Overbooking
Overbooking is not illegal, and most airlines overbook their scheduled flights to a certain extent in order to compensate for "no-shows." Passengers are sometimes left behind or "bumped" as a result. When an oversale occurs, the Department of Transportation (DOT) requires airlines to ask people who aren't in a hurry to give up their seats voluntarily, in exchange for compensation. Those passengers bumped against their will are, with a few exceptions, entitled to compensation.

Voluntary Bumping

Almost any planeload of airline passengers includes some people with urgent travel needs and others who may be more concerned about the cost of their tickets than about getting to their destination on time. DOT rules require airlines to seek out people who are willing to give up their seats for compensation before bumping anyone involuntarily. Here's how this works. At the check-in or boarding area, airline employees will look for volunteers when it appears that the flight has been oversold. If you're not in a rush to arrive at your next destination, you can give your reservation back to the airline in exchange for compensation and a later flight. But before you do this, you may want to get answers to these important questions:

  • When is the next flight on which the airline can confirm your seat? The alternate flight may be just as acceptable to you. On the other hand, if the airline offers to put you on standby on another flight that's full, you could be stranded.
  • Will the airline provide other amenities such as free meals, a hotel room, transfers between the hotel and the airport, and a phone card? If not, you might have to spend the money it offers you on food or lodging while you wait for the next flight.
DOT has not mandated the form or amount of compensation that airlines offer to volunteers. DOT does, however, require airlines to advise any volunteer whether he or she might be involuntarily bumped and, if that were to occur, the amount of compensation that would be due. Carriers can negotiate with their passengers for mutually acceptable compensation. Airlines generally offer a free trip or other transportation benefits to prospective volunteers. The airlines give employees guidelines for bargaining with passengers, and they may select those volunteers willing to sell back their reservations for the lowest price. If the airline offers you a free ticket or a transportation voucher in a certain dollar amount, ask about restrictions. How long is the ticket or voucher good for? Is it "blacked out" during holiday periods when you might want to use it? Can it be used for international flights?

Involuntary Bumping

DOT requires each airline to give all passengers who are bumped involuntarily a written statement describing their rights and explaining how the carrier decides who gets on an oversold flight and who doesn't. Those travelers who don't get to fly are frequently entitled to denied boarding compensation in the form of a check or cash. The amount depends on the price of their ticket and the length of the delay:

  • If you are bumped involuntarily and the airline arranges substitute transportation that is scheduled to get you to your final destination (including later connections) within one hour of your original scheduled arrival time, there is no compensation.
  • If the airline arranges substitute transportation that is scheduled to arrive at your destination between one and two hours after your original arrival time (between one and four hours on international flights), the airline must pay you an amount equal to 200% of your one-way fare to your final destination that day, with a $675 maximum.
  • If the substitute transportation is scheduled to get you to your destination more than two hours later (four hours internationally), or if the airline does not make any substitute travel arrangements for you, the compensation doubles (400% of your one-way fare, $1350 maximum).
  • If your ticket does not show a fare (for example, a frequent-flyer award ticket or a ticket issued by a consolidator), your denied boarding compensation is based on the lowest cash, check or credit card payment charged for a ticket in the same class of service (e.g., coach, first class) on that flight.
  • You always get to keep your original ticket and use it on another flight. If you choose to make your own arrangements, you can request an "involuntary refund" for the ticket for the flight you were bumped from. The denied boarding compensation is essentially a payment for your inconvenience.
  • If you paid for optional services on your original flight (e.g., seat selection, checked baggage) and you did not receive those services on your substitute flight or were required to pay a second time, the airline that bumped you must refund those payments to you.
Like all rules, however, there are a few conditions and exceptions:

  • To be eligible for compensation, you must have a confirmed reservation. A written confirmation issued by the airline or an authorized agent or reservation service qualifies you in this regard even if the airline can't find your reservation in the computer, as long as you didn't cancel your reservation or miss a reconfirmation deadline.
  • Each airline has a check-in deadline, which is the amount of time before scheduled departure that you must present yourself to the airline at the airport. For domestic flights most carriers require you to be at the departure gate between 10 minutes and 30 minutes before scheduled departure, but some deadlines can be an hour or longer. Check-in deadlines on international flights can be as much as three hours before scheduled departure time. Some airlines may simply require you to be at the ticket/baggage counter by this time; most, however, require that you get all the way to the boarding area. Some may have deadlines at both locations. If you miss the check-in deadline, you may have lost your reservation and your right to compensation if the flight is oversold.
As noted above, no compensation is due if the airline arranges substitute transportation which is scheduled to arrive at your destination within one hour of your originally scheduled arrival time.

If the airline must substitute a smaller plane for the one it originally planned to use, the carrier isn't required to pay people who are bumped as a result. In addition, on flights using aircraft with 30 through 60 passenger seats, compensation is not required if you were bumped due to safety-related aircraft weight or balance constraints.

The rules do not apply to charter flights, or to scheduled flights operated with planes that hold fewer than 30 passengers. They don't apply to international flights inbound to the United States, although some airlines on these routes may follow them voluntarily. Also, if you are flying between two foreign cities -- from Paris to Rome, for example -- these rules will not apply. The European Commission has a rule on bumpings that occur in an EC country; ask the airline for details, or go to http://ec.europa.eu/transport/passengers/air/air_en.htm [external link].

Airlines set their own "boarding priorities" -- the order in which they will bump different categories of passengers in an oversale situation. When a flight is oversold and there are not enough volunteers, some airlines bump passengers with the lowest fares first. Others bump the last passengers to check in. Once you have purchased your ticket, the most effective way to reduce the risk of being bumped is to get to the airport early. For passengers in the same fare class the last passengers to check in are usually the first to be bumped, even if they have met the check-in deadline. Allow extra time; assume that the roads are backed up, the parking lot is full, and there is a long line at the check-in counter.

Airlines may offer free tickets or dollar-amount vouchers for future flights in place of a check for denied boarding compensation. However, if you are bumped involuntarily you have the right to insist on a check if that is your preference. Once you cash the check (or accept the free flight), you will probably lose the ability to pursue more money from the airline later on. However, if being bumped costs you more money than the airline will pay you at the airport, you can try to negotiate a higher settlement with their complaint department. If this doesn't work, you usually have 30 days from the date on the check to decide if you want to accept the amount of the check. You are always free to decline the check (e.g., not cash it) and take the airline to court to try to obtain more compensation. DOT's denied boarding regulation spells out the airlines' minimum obligation to people they bump involuntarily. Finally, don't be a "no-show." If you are holding confirmed reservations you don't plan to use, notify the airline. If you don't, they will cancel all onward or return reservations on your trip.

https://www.transportation.gov/airconsumer/fly-rights
Yep. They're still a business and the airline industry has exercised in the past to remove people if they want. People are piling on United, but to my understanding, it was the Chicago Dept. of Aviation who used excessive force.

Their CEO appears to have doubled down that he will stand behind the employees at all costs.

Edit* The Southwest "slogan change" people came up with is pretty funny, though.
C9F1r0kV0AEQQlI.jpg:large
 
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