America - The Official Thread

[Sanji Himura]

Gentlemen, below is the bomb that was sent to Debbie Schultz. I've edited out her address due to doxing, but there is something very suspicious with the bomb itself. I've circled the relevant section for you to have a nice big close up of it.

Source: Washington Post

 

[Johnnypenso]

Gentlemen, below is the bo mb that was sent to Debbie Schultz. I've edited out her address due to doxing, but there is something very suspicious with the bomb itself. I've circled the relevant section for you to have a nice big close up of it.

Source: Washington Post

Tree'd. I was looking at the same thing. This is the best quality picture I could find and I flipped it upside down:

Is that Arabic?

EDIT:
It bears a passing resemblence to this:

 

[mustafur]

I think the accusations of the left being violent are laughable. By far the extreme right are the most violent people in the USA. They litterally want to purge the USA

Should I introduce you to a group called Antifa?
In America it's clearly the far left that has been the most violent.

 

[Biggles]

If the Russians were aiming to destabilize the US, they're certainly having some success in achieving that.

I can't remember the US being this divided since the days of the Vietnam war. Of course there have always been extremists on both sides of the political spectrum, what is different is that there is now a president who is actively & (apparently) consciously encouraging division. Moderate Republicans should have been acting as a restraint on the worst impulses of Trump, but they seem to have lost their nerve in the face of Trump's bullying & bluster & his popularity with the Republican base. Politics in the US, rather than being the "art of the possible", or the "art of compromise" has become a zero sum game in which winning, at all costs, is everything. It's starting to feel pretty ugly ...

 

[McLaren]

I think the accusations of the left being violent are laughable. By far the extreme right are the most violent people in the USA. They litterally want to purge the USA.

Yeah, you're going to find yourself well-discredited in this section spouting this kind of nonsense.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifa_(United_States)

The Antifa (/ænˈtiːfə, ˈæntiˌfɑː/)[1] movement is a conglomeration of left wing autonomous, self-styled anti-fascist militant[2][3][4][5][6] groups in the United States.[7][8][9] The principal feature of antifa groups is their use of direct action,[10] harassing those whom they deem to be fascists, racists and right wing extremists.[11] Conflicts are both online and in real life.[11]

They engage in varied protest tactics, which include digital activism [12] property damage and physical violence.[7][13][14][15] They tend to be anti-capitalist[16] and they are predominantly far-left and militant left,[17][10] which includes anarchists, communists and socialists.[18][19][20][21] Their stated focus is on fighting far-right and white supremacist ideologies directly, rather than politically.[10]

There is not a group on the far-right* that has been as brass & gutsy as Antifa who attend protests only in the name of looking to start fights & literally attempt to beat opposing views into submission.

That's what's laughable; an Anti-Fascist group that commits fascism....


*Klansmen/white supremacists are probably the closest, but those people are usually in small groups and easily outnumbered when seen in public. Because their racist ideology is well known, public opposition is usually aggressive from the start and most of these supremacists will flee than fight when you have a general public that would relish the opportunity to beat openly racist people. There's a reason most of these folks are non-violent in public spaces & keep their groupings private.

 

[DK]

Yeah, I'd want to forget the Proud Boys' existence too, especially after browsing /r/beholdthemasterrace recently.

 

[Famine]

below is the bomb that was sent to Debbie Schultz

Schultz didn't receive a bomb. Schultz was the listed sender on all of the bombs sent.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Apparently packages were also sent to Robert De Niro and Joe Biden:
https://www.foxnews.com/us/suspicio...e-niros-restaurant-being-investigated-by-nypd

 

[Liquid]

What amazes me is the immediate point scoring attempted by some people:

"Wow, the left will do anything [false flag operation] for attention!"
"God, the right can't even rig a bomb correctly. What losers!"

Whereas I'm just alone in thinking "I don't give a toss what the background of the perpetrator is, there's someone out there who thinks sending (fake?) bombs in the post is a reasonable course of action".

Only the other day I was actually innocently wondering to myself that those employed by the Secret Service to look after ex-Presidents must have a fairly boring deployment and yet here we are with two former Presidents getting bomb threats.

 

[PocketZeven]

Do you have sources to back up this claim?

Yes

https://bsos.umd.edu/featured-content/proportion-terrorist-attacks

https://www.snopes.com/news/2017/08/17/are-antifa-and-the-alt-right-equally-violent/

To the people citing antifa as violent. I fully agree these are extremists that should not exist. But the group is a reaction to Far right extremists. Almost all incidents that people are referring were protesting antifa agains rightwing rallies. But please also put it in perspective. Please tell me how many deaths antifa have caused compared to far right extremists? How many bombings? etc.

 

[Milouse]

The real question now is: how many republicans infiltrated The caravan?

 

[Famine]

Yes

How do the abortion clinic murders class as "right-wing"? The first one I looked up was committed by a man representing a Christian fundamentalist anti-abortion group called "The Lambs of God"...

That graphic also seems to have forgotten James Hodgkinson and Daniel Frisiello...

When you say "most violent", why then limit yourself to only acts of terrorism? Why exclude groups like Antifa which commit violence outside of shootings and bomb/bioweapon letters?

 

[Danoff]

Yes

https://bsos.umd.edu/featured-content/proportion-terrorist-attacks

https://www.snopes.com/news/2017/08/17/are-antifa-and-the-alt-right-equally-violent/

To the people citing antifa as violent. I fully agree these are extremists that should not exist. But the group is a reaction to Far right extremists. Almost all incidents that people are referring were protesting antifa agains rightwing rallies. But please also put it in perspective. Please tell me how many deaths antifa have caused compared to far right extremists? How many bombings? etc.

 

[Milouse]

I can't remember the US being this divided since the days of the Vietnam war.

Yes, and it didn't start with Trump:

source and additional data

 

[Joey D]

So extremist are extreme, who knew?

Really, the extreme of any side can be violent and typically don't represent the greater population of a group.

 

[Danoff]

So extremist are extreme, who knew?

Really, the extreme of any side can be violent and typically don't represent the greater population of a group.

Totally agree.

...but...

The left just demonstrated how badly they behave for the entire world, in the wake of Trump's election. Riots erupted all over the country, people were attacked for being pro-trump. Property was damaged, fires were set, violence and mayhem was had. This is how the left would like to say that republicans would act if a black person were elected president, but of course that didn't happen.

So it's particularly appalling to claim that the far left is not as violent as the far right at the moment.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Yes

https://bsos.umd.edu/featured-content/proportion-terrorist-attacks

https://www.snopes.com/news/2017/08/17/are-antifa-and-the-alt-right-equally-violent/

To the people citing antifa as violent. I fully agree these are extremists that should not exist. But the group is a reaction to Far right extremists. Almost all incidents that people are referring were protesting antifa agains rightwing rallies. But please also put it in perspective. Please tell me how many deaths antifa have caused compared to far right extremists? How many bombings? etc.

Here's a summary of your sources:
1. 15 incidents of left wing terrorism
2. 2 incidents of left wing terrorism
3. Almost 100 deaths from left wing terrorism
4. No deaths by left wing terrorists

Can you explain how you get 4 completely different answers to the same question?

 

[PocketZeven]

I thought you would be smarter and know that pictures never paint the real picture. If I google Right wing / white nationalist violence I will Probably find similar photos too. Just interesting how you guys just ignore the deaths caused by rightwing extremists and use antifa protest against rightwing rallies as a counter.

Again antifa are crazy extremists too, but they dont carry out deadly attacks as much as rightwing extremists. If you compare the 2 extremists the left are less significant in terrorist attacks and murders.

 

[Danoff]

I thought you would be smarter and know that pictures never paint the real picture. If I google Right wing / white nationalist violence I will Probably find similar photos too. Just interesting how you guys just ignore the deaths caused by rightwing extremists and use antifa protest against rightwing rallies as a counter.

Again antifa are crazy extremists too, but they dont carry out deadly attacks as much as rightwing extremists. If you compare the 2 extremists the left are less significant in terrorist attacks and murders.

Violence is what we're talking about (not body counts, and not terrorism). I don't have to concentrate on right wing violence because that's not what's at issue here, you said that the left wasn't violent. In fact you said that it was laughable to suggest that the left is violent. You're wrong. An apology would be in order at this point.

 

[Famine]

Oklahoma City - Timothy McVeigh (White supremacist, anti-government); Terry Nicholls (anti-government)
National Holocaust Museum shooting (not a spree) - James von Brunn (White supremacist, anti-semite)
Tuscon shooting/Gabrielle Giffords - Jared Loughner (paranoid schizophrenic)
"Anthrax Mail Attacks" (2001?) - No known perpetrator or motivation
Olympic Park Bombing(s) - Eric Rudolph (Christian anti-abortion, anti-gay, Army of God)
"Scores of abortion clinic bombings" - ?
"Countless fatal attacks on minority groups" - ?
David Gunn murder - Michael Griffin (Christian anti-abortion)
John Britton murder - Paul Hill (Christian anti-abortion)
Shannon Lowney/Lee Ann Nichols - John Salvi (Christian anti-abortion)
Robert Sanderson - Eric Rudolph (Christian anti-abortion, anti-gay, Army of God), again
Barnett Slepian - James Kopp (Christian anti-abortion, Lambs of God)
George Tiller - Scott Roeder (Christian anti-abortion)

Are anti-semitism and Christian anti-abortion exclusively right-wing traits?

Meanwhile, missing from the left (which is ironically on the right) we have:
2017 Congressional Baseball Shooting - James Hodgkinson (anti-Republican, anti-Trump)
2018 "ricin" mail attacks - Daniel Frisiello (anti-Trump)

 

[PocketZeven]

Here's a summary of your sources:
1. 15 incidents of left wing terrorism
2. 2 incidents of left wing terrorism
3. Almost 100 deaths from left wing terrorism
4. No deaths by left wing terrorists

Can you explain how you get 4 completely different answers to the same question?

I recommend asking the sources. Interesting you are only focusing on left wing violence. Which source claims 100 deaths? And which show no deaths?
I can do some additional research into it. But the fact remains that rightwing extremist violence account for far more deaths then leftwing extremists violence

Violence is what we're talking about (not body counts, and not terrorism). I don't have to concentrate on right wing violence because that's not what's at issue here, you said that the left wasn't violent. In fact you said that it was laughable to suggest that the left is violent. You're wrong. An apology would be in order at this point.

I already know that leftwing extremists are violent. ALL extremists are violent. Right, left, religious etc. (even then the right are more extreme then left)

I was speaking of the recent accusations of the "left" being violent. (mobs vs jobs) I did not say that the left were not violent at all. I said laughable in the sense that its amazigly hypocritical. You cant convince me that an average leftwing is more violent then a rightwinger (excluding alt-right and antifa)

No need for an apology. I found another source in reaction to @Johnnypenso confusion about stats that goes into more detail about extremist violence:

https://www.adl.org/resources/reports/murder-and-extremism-in-the-united-states-in-2016

372 deaths in the past 10 years, with 75% rightwing extremists. 24% islam extremists and 1% leftwing extremists.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I recommend asking the sources. Interesting you are only focusing on left wing violence. Which source claims 100 deaths? And which show no deaths?
I can do some additional research into it. But the fact remains that rightwing extremist violence account for far more deaths then leftwing extremists violence

I focus on left wing violence because you are making the claims about left wing violence. I'm not making any claims about right wing violence. Your sources you provided show 100 deaths, no deaths etc. Did you not read them? If your sources all have dramatically conflicting figures during overlapping time periods perhaps you should be vetting your sources before posting them here?

 

[PocketZeven]

I focus on left wing violence because you are making the claims about left wing violence. I'm not making any claims about right wing violence. Your sources you provided show 100 deaths, no deaths etc. Did you not read them? If your sources all have dramatically conflicting figures during overlapping time periods perhaps you should be vetting your sources before posting them here?

I ask again, which source stated 100 deaths?

 

[Joey D]

Totally agree.

...but...

The left just demonstrated how badly they behave for the entire world, in the wake of Trump's election. Riots erupted all over the country, people were attacked for being pro-trump. Property was damaged, fires were set, violence and mayhem was had. This is how the left would like to say that republicans would act if a black person were elected president, but of course that didn't happen.

So it's particularly appalling to claim that the far left is not as violent as the far right at the moment.

I thought there were violent acts when Obama was elected? Although, I'm not sure if it was due to Obama getting elected or if it was just asshats being asshats because they're asshats.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I ask again, which source stated 100 deaths?

My mistake. I misread one chart (colour blind )
New totals are:

15
2
11
0

The last 2 are in direct conflict. Your pie chart says 11 deaths from left wing extremists and the last graphic says 0. The first 2 also conflict. One says about 15 incidents of left wing extremism, the next says 2 and over a much longer time period.

Also from your source:
In the 1970s the most common ideological motivations for terrorist attacks were left-wing extremism (68% of all attacks and 58% of all deaths) and nationalist/separatist extremism (39% of all attacks and 37% of all deaths).

The number of attacks by left-wing extremists increased 80 percent in the 2000s, though none of the attacks were lethal. The number of attacks motivated by right-wing extremism declined by 40 percent between the 1990s and the 2000s.

 

[Danoff]

I already know that leftwing extremists are violent. ALL extremists are violent. Right, left, religious etc. (even then the right are more extreme then left)

I was speaking of the recent accusations of the "left" being violent. (mobs vs jobs) I did not say that the left were not violent at all. I said laughable in the sense that its amazigly hypocritical. You cant convince me that an average leftwing is more violent then a rightwinger (excluding alt-right and antifa)

No need for an apology. I found another source in reaction to @Johnnypenso confusion about stats that goes into more detail about extremist violence:

https://www.adl.org/resources/reports/murder-and-extremism-in-the-united-states-in-2016

372 deaths in the past 10 years, with 75% rightwing extremists. 24% islam extremists and 1% leftwing extremists.

 

[PocketZeven]

My mistake. I misread one chart (colour blind )
New totals are:

15
2
11
0

The last 2 are in direct conflict. Your pie chart says 11 deaths from left wing extremists and the last graphic says 0. The first 2 also conflict. One says about 15 incidents of left wing extremism, the next says 2 and over a much longer time period.

Also from your source:
In the 1970s the most common ideological motivations for terrorist attacks were left-wing extremism (68% of all attacks and 58% of all deaths) and nationalist/separatist extremism (39% of all attacks and 37% of all deaths).

The number of attacks by left-wing extremists increased 80 percent in the 2000s, though none of the attacks were lethal. The number of attacks motivated by right-wing extremism declined by 40 percent between the 1990s and the 2000s.

For the 2000's you also need to look at the absolutes numbers.

You could have figured that out yourself, because we were talking about the recent bombing attempts.

 

[Danoff]

Are anti-semitism and Christian anti-abortion exclusively right-wing traits?

...or even political traits at all. There's a similar problem for violent environmentalist groups. Is environmentalism political? Certainly it has been politicized, but it doesn't strike me as a political issue. Anyone at any point on the spectrum can be environmentalist.

 

[Parker]

I think the accusations of the left being violent are laughable. By far the extreme right are the most violent people in the USA.

That was your quote, nowhere in that quote did you specify anything about "domestic terrorism." So I'll ask again, do you have any sources that back up the claim that the "extreme right" are the most violent people in the USA?

 

[Biggles]

Extremist groups in the US on both the right & the left that engage in violent acts today are a very small, marginal proportion of the population. The problem is, a significant motivating factor in these groups, on both sides, is race. The history of violence & intimidation when it comes to race is overwhelmingly on one side. White suprematism & the racist violence that accompanied it is deeply & widely rooted in US society - it's not a "marginal" factor at all.

I think a huge cause of the increasing polarization is the influence of the internet & fragmented media sources. In the past, at least in the previous 60/70 years, there was a national media in radio & TV that provided a middle-of-the-road perspective that created a sense of consensus. Now more & more people are getting their information from highly splintered, partisan sources. I notice that if I click on the Youtube video linked by mustafur, I get a string of videos referencing similar incidents. It's easy to get the impression that the US is over-run with black hooded anarchist vandals ... or conversely that swastika carrying neo-nazis are on the rise. Algorithms at work online aggressively re-enforce the same viewpoint. Anyone who does not actively seek out other sources will have their existing bias constantly re-confirmed.