America - The Official Thread

[PocketZeven]

That was your quote, nowhere in that quote did you specify anything about "domestic terrorism." So I'll ask again, do you have any sources that back up the claim that the "extreme right" are the most violent people in the USA?

Context is important here. We were discussing the recent bomb threats. If you didnt understand the first time. I will specify now that I meant violence in the form of terrorism and with the accusations to the left I meant the recent "mobs vs jobs" narrative that Trump has been promoting.

I already posted a source that in the last 10 years, extreme right caused more deaths thenleft extremists and islamic terrorists combined.

 

[DDastardly00]

@Biggles

That is a very astute comment, I couldn't agree more. For as much good that the internet gave us, there is plenty of bad that came with it. Giving idiots a platform on social media is like handing all the would-be David Dukes out there a megaphone to blast our ears with. But you are indeed correct about extremists being a small segment of society and we can take some comfort that these loud obnoxious voices an all sides do not represent the vast majority of our society.

 

[Famine]

Context is important here. We were discussing the recent bomb threats. If you didnt understand the first time. I will specify now that I meant violence in the form of terrorism and with the accusations to the left I meant the recent "mobs vs jobs" narrative that Trump has been promoting.

Did you miss the "white powder" incident in March? I've only mentioned it twice.

I already posted a source that in the last 10 years, extreme right caused more deaths thenleft extremists and islamic terrorists combined.

One of the items you posted assigned a number of attacks and murders to "right wing political violence" which did not belong, and completely excluded all attacks and murders under its "left wing political violence" heading in favour of humour about rock throwing and a guy from the Discovery channel. No mention of even last year's attack on the congressional baseball game by a left-wing activist...

... and that still doesn't come close to justifying your statement that "I think the accusations of the left being violent are laughable.". What in particular about things like leftist governments carrying out genocides makes you giggle?

 

[Johnnypenso]

For the 2000's you also need to look at the absolutes numbers.



You could have figured that out yourself, because we were talking about the recent bombing attempts.

So are you going to address the discrepancies in your sources or no? Errors have already been point out.

 

[PocketZeven]

Did you miss the "white powder" incident in March? I've only mentioned it twice.

That news was barely covered here it seems. Was it the one with the fake white powder and Trump Jr.?

And I was referring to the narrative of "mobs vs Jobs" being laughable. The claim that the left are violent mobs and the right are working hard to produce jobs is distortion from the truth.

I was not specific enough, but feel free to ask when you think a post of mine is to vague.

So are you going to address the discrepancies in your sources or no? Errors have already been point out.

I did refer you to ask the sources. I did a google search and these were in the top 10. If you want to go indepth I suggest to contact the sources.

 

[Sanji Himura]

That was your quote, nowhere in that quote did you specify anything about "domestic terrorism." So I'll ask again, do you have any sources that back up the claim that the "extreme right" are the most violent people in the USA?

I don't think that he is going to directly answer the question. Context is important, but words also matter too. To declare one side or the other the most extreme in America is an awfully big claim and producing evidence that contradicts itself, especially from Snopes of all places (which does have a history of left-leaning bias) is laughable at best.

 

[PocketZeven]

I don't think that he is going to directly answer the question. Context is important, but words also matter too. To declare one side or the other the most extreme in America is an awfully big claim and producing evidence that contradicts itself, especially from Snopes of all places (which does have a history of left-leaning bias) is laughable at best.

Thats why I posted multiple sources. To answer the question again:

https://www.adl.org/resources/reports/murder-and-extremism-in-the-united-states-in-2016

That said as one of the biggest Trump-supporters here, I hope you dont fall for the mobs v jobs narrative that Trump is pushing. Also do you believe there are middle eastern terrorists among the supposed caravan? And do you believe Trump is speaking the truth about the 10% tax cut for the middle income that should be coming before november?

 

[ryzno]

If you want to go indepth I suggest to contact the sources.

Why should he contact the sources. You are the one providing them.
Good job changing your words again to fit your argument. Those 3 words COMPLETELY change your entire posts.

 

[PocketZeven]

Why should he contact the sources. You are the one providing them.
Good job changing your words again to fit your argument. Those 3 words COMPLETELY change your entire posts.

He is asking for the differences in the specific statistics. I honestly dont know, but perhaps the sources themselves might know. But the best explanation is that some of them are inaccurate or measured using different demographics or timespan.

Which words am i changing? I have not changed anything. I just provided context and clarified intention. If I misunderstand one of your posts, I will give you the chance to clarify or provide context.

I think the accusations of the left being violent are laughable. By far the extreme right are the most violent people in the USA. They litterally want to purge the USA.

But perhaps its the Libertarians, trying to have the democrats and republicans destroy each other and pick up the leftover pieces. Or its the russians trying to break apart the USA. Which (if it was a Bond plot) is the best explanation.

As you see, I was providing perspective after we made some theories about the motive of the bombs.

 

[ryzno]

Which words am i changing? I have not changed anything. I just provided context and clarified intention. If I misunderstand one of your posts, I will give you the chance to clarify or provide context.

Mobs vs jobs. For the last day and a half I was under the impression you thought the thought of the left being violent was laughable.

 

[PocketZeven]

Mobs vs jobs. For the last day and a half I was under the impression you thought the thought of the left being violent was laughable.

The accusations in that context are laughable. see my quote. I believe somebody else referenced Rand Paul also accusing the left of inciting violence

You might have misunderstood me saying that the thought or idea óf the left being violent is laughable. But I am here to explain it for you. Just ask.

 

[McLaren]

Really? We’re just going to start pulling “charts” with no context or come from a web blog with random pictures?

This is your landofmind chart page.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/landofmind.wordpress.com/2011/01/09/political-violence/amp/

 

[PocketZeven]

Really? We’re just going to start pulling “charts” with no context or come from a web blog with random pictures?

This is your landofmind chart page.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/landofmind.wordpress.com/2011/01/09/political-violence/amp/

I pulled this particular one from google images. And honestly didnt go indepth into it.

I apologise (especially @Johnnypenso) , because this one I agree is suspectively misleading and inaccurate in hindsight. I will try to do some better due diligence with sources from now on.

 

[McLaren]

I pulled this particular one from google images. And honestly didnt go indepth into it.

I apologise (especially @Johnnypenso) , because this one I agree is suspectively misleading and inaccurate in hindsight. I will try to do some better due diligence with sources from now on.

How do we know the other ones weren’t just pulled from Google images too, now?

C’mon man, if you’re going to cite evidence, share the links of these images so we can read background data behind them. Otherwise, anyone can conjur up a random chart and share it here.

 

[Biggles]

@Biggles

That is a very astute comment, I couldn't agree more. For as much good that the internet gave us, there is plenty of bad that came with it. Giving idiots a platform on social media is like handing all the would-be David Dukes out there a megaphone to blast our ears with. But you are indeed correct about extremists being a small segment of society and we can take some comfort that these loud obnoxious voices an all sides do not represent the vast majority of our society.

Yes, but it's not just that they are being given a megaphone, it's that the way the internet functions it corrals people into categories & then funnels information to them that re-enforces those categories ... and it does it in a way that seems impersonal & random, but is actually targeted. Very insidious.

... and that still doesn't come close to justifying your statement that "I think the accusations of the left being violent are laughable.". What in particular about things like leftist governments carrying out genocides makes you giggle?

I think he's talking about the current "left wing" in the US. Nobody would question that communist regimes have committed atrocities in the past & in other places.

 

[Rallywagon]

Why is Trump pulling us out of the Nuke treaty with Russia?

 

[ryzno]

Why is Trump pulling us out of the Nuke treaty with Russia?

'Cause bad deal!

 

[Rallywagon]

If only that were true.

 

[Famine]

I think he's talking about the current "left wing" in the US.

Indeed, although I'm not seeing what's risible about shooting Republicans at a baseball game, mailing letters purporting to be ricin to Republicans and people associated with Republicans, or Antifa.

 

[Dotini]

Why is Trump pulling us out of the Nuke treaty with Russia?

Ostensibly it is because the Russians (and Chinese) are "cheating" and developing hypersonic unstoppable maneuverable nuke delivering missiles. But we are too. Either way a whole new treaty needs to be negotiated, or it's an open-ended arms race again.

Way back in the 80's the treaty was all about IRBM's like the Pershing. It was dubbed a win for all sides, particularly the side for peace, when these battlefield nuke missiles were negotiated out of existence. Now they are coming back in high tech guise, opening the door for Armageddon. IMO neocons have convinced our feeble-minded president that strength and aggression are the right strategy and tactics for the modern day. I don't know. The neocons may be right, and it may be time for the war to end all wars. But count me out of the solution. I won't protest anymore and I don't give a **** anymore. I'll end my days fishing and fencing and be blissfully happy no matter what.

 

[DDastardly00]

Seriously, how did I miss this? More Space Force news!

https://www.universetoday.com/14033...h-why-couldnt-they-have-called-it-star-fleet/

Because everyone needs their Space Force news fix....

 

[Gordy749]

I think these posted bombs have been thought up by the deep state left supporting the global pedophile/ Democrat group that the Republicans and Trump are secretly fighting against (shh, it's a secret) to make The Donald look bad so there will be a wave of socialist and illegals voting in November.

I mean, c'mon. It's just too obvious that it's some lunatic free-arms bunch of wackos in the middle of the country who think they can do whatever they damn well want, right?

 

[Novalee]

At Famine.


First thing , the guy that shot the gop politician was a centrist.

Next antifa is exactly what their name implies,anti-nazis.Not seeing how anti-nazi is a bad thing considering 6 million jews were exterminated .

The leaders of Russia are not leftists in the sense you are implying .They are more along the lines of banana republics .

So in that context there is no comparison ,as it is the right wing extremists displaying nazi like ideas .

On one of the bombs there is a meme from a rightwing blog started by a rightwing loon in Arizona that never really went anywhere in terms of popularity.Only a visitor to that blog or the rightwing extremists using that meme would have known about it

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...popular-right-wing-meme-ISIS-parody-flag.html

And last the powder sent to the Trumps was also sent to some democrats ,so again i fail to see how that was a leftist plot .

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...d05782-d210-11e8-a4db-184311d27129_story.html

Frisiello’s attorney, William Fick, declined to comment after the hearing. Fick told the judge that Frisiello has substantial cognitive and developmental issues from brain damage he suffered at birth. He said Frisiello is profoundly autistic and has an anxiety disorder.

Anyways my first post here . Politics is always fun topics

 

[mustafur]

Next antifa is exactly what their name implies,anti-nazis.Not seeing how anti-nazi is a bad thing considering 6 million jews were exterminated

Antifa = Anti facist:

Hypocrisy personified.

 

[McLaren]

Next antifa is exactly what their name implies,anti-nazis.Not seeing how anti-nazi is a bad thing considering 6 million jews were exterminated.

Not the same. The Antifaschistische Aktion of the 1930's fought Nazis. The group's re-emergence in the 80's fought Nazi gatherings.

The Antifa in the US just attempts to beat anyone they don't agree with, regardless of whether a person is a Nazi or not. It's hilariously ironic coming from a group of "anti-fascists"....

Fascism (/ˈfæʃɪzəm/) is a form of radical authoritarian ultranationalism,[1][2][3][4] characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition and strong regimentation of society and of the economy,[5] which came to prominence in early 20th-century Europe.

 

[Johnnypenso]

He is asking for the differences in the specific statistics. I honestly dont know, but perhaps the sources themselves might know. But the best explanation is that some of them are inaccurate or measured using different demographics or timespan.

You have to vet your own sources. If someone questions them it's up to you to verify them or withdraw them. If they provide contradictory information you don't say, "contact the source", you acknowledge that the sources are contradictory and either fix them or withdraw them. We don't vet your sources, you do.

At Famine.


First thing , the guy that shot the gop politician was a centrist.

Next antifa is exactly what their name implies,anti-nazis.Not seeing how anti-nazi is a bad thing considering 6 million jews were exterminated .

The leaders of Russia are not leftists in the sense you are implying .They are more along the lines of banana republics .

So in that context there is no comparison ,as it is the right wing extremists displaying nazi like ideas .

On one of the bombs there is a meme from a rightwing blog started by a rightwing loon in Arizona that never really went anywhere in terms of popularity.Only a visitor to that blog or the rightwing extremists using that meme would have known about it

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...popular-right-wing-meme-ISIS-parody-flag.html

And last the powder sent to the Trumps was also sent to some democrats ,so again i fail to see how that was a leftist plot .

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...d05782-d210-11e8-a4db-184311d27129_story.html

Frisiello’s attorney, William Fick, declined to comment after the hearing. Fick told the judge that Frisiello has substantial cognitive and developmental issues from brain damage he suffered at birth. He said Frisiello is profoundly autistic and has an anxiety disorder.

Anyways my first post here . Politics is always fun topics

The WaPo article is behind a paywall. Do you have a link that's not behind a paywall?

 

[Biggles]

Not the same. The Antifaschistische Aktion of the 1930's fought Nazis. The group's re-emergence in the 80's fought Nazi gatherings.

The Antifa in the US just attempts to beat anyone they don't agree with, regardless of whether a person is a Nazi or not. It's hilariously ironic coming from a group of "anti-fascists"....

It's bit pointless trying to cite current examples of right or left wing violence to show one side is worse than the other. There are always going to be people who, for personal, often psychological reasons, mixed up with political ideologies, adopt extremist positions. They may do no more than dress up, march around & beat each other up.

There is an important distinction between the two sides that is worth pointing out, however: there's an ugly history of white supremacy in the United States & it's not a history of a few random "Nazi" extremists acting out, it's a history of centuries of state-sanctioned racism that still casts a long shadow on life in the US.

 

[McLaren]

It's bit pointless trying to cite current examples of right or left wing violence to show one side is worse than the other. There are always going to be people who, for personal, often psychological reasons, mixed up with political ideologies, adopt extremist positions. They may do no more than dress up, march around & beat each other up.

There is an important distinction between the two sides that is worth pointing out, however: there's an ugly history of white supremacy in the United States & it's not a history of a few random "Nazi" extremists acting out, it's a history of centuries of state-sanctioned racism that still casts a long shadow on life in the US.

Subtle way of saying which side is still worse....

 

[mustafur]

The difference being Antifa is everywhere with a presence in every 1st world country basically, with colleges/universities being a factory for members, they counter protest any protest right of a communist, outnumber them then beat them up, the US government even classes them as Domestic terrorists, they are well organized and all mask up, it's a problem for the left when they refuse to call them out for this.

 

[Biggles]

Subtle way of saying which side is still worse....

The difference being Antifa is everywhere with a presence in every 1st world country basically, with colleges/universities being a factory for members, they counter protest any protest right of a communist, outnumber them then beat them up, the US government even classes them as Domestic terrorists, they are well organized and all mask up, it's a problem for the left when they refuse to call them out for this.

Of course one side is "still worse". The Antifa activists aren't Democrats, & they aren't communists either, but self-styled anti-authoritarian anarchists. Historically, anarchists may have lobbed a few bombs & killed the odd arch-duke, but they've never, like European fascists & Nazis carried out state-sponsored genocide on a massive scale, or, like US white suprematists, tortured, lynched & terrorized generations of African Americans.

As far as the present day Antifa crowd is concerned, I'm thinking their behaviour is seriously counter-productive to the cause of moderate left-of-centre politics - but yeah, they're probably happy to protest anyone to the right of "anarchy" - that's their thing.