America - The Official Thread

[SestoScudo]

China has a wall and there is no Mexicans.

So build the Wall

 

[Dogwolf77]

At what point was the know-how necessary to create infrastructure capable of supporting civilization lost?

It’s not lost. Where there’s a will there’s a way.

 

[TexRex]

It’s not lost. Where there’s a will there’s a way.

Then why must people occupy only those locations that are presently capable of supporting civilization?

 

[TenEightyOne]

would you move your family to the center of nowhere? No, I think not. You’ll settle in a city like Paris, London, Chicago, San Francisco, Prague...not the mountains or desert plains.

Can we agree on that?

How much do you know about the history of America, particularly the westward settlement? It's a good parallel here.

 

[Famine]

When I served in the Navy, the population was half the number of what it is today. When I was born, it was half that number.

The current estimated population of the USA is 327 million. Half of that number is 163.5 million, and the last time the US population was that low was somewhere in the mid-1950s (1960 Census: 179m; 1950 Census: 151m). Half of that number is 81.8m, and the last time the US population was that low was somewhere in the first decade of the 1900s (1900 Census: 76m; 1910 Census: 92m).

So congratulations on being the oldest verified member of GTPlanet, at a little over 110 years old, and thank you for your service during the Korean War.

We were no where close to the population of China or India, we certainly are now!

Assuming that you were born when your profile says you were born and not in 1905, the US population was around 200m, with the India population at 553m and the Chinese population at somewhere around 800m (there's a big gap in their census data, so that's pretty rough). That's 1 American for every 2.25 Indians and 4 Chinese.

The current US population is 327m, with the Indian population at 1.3bn and the Chinese population at 1.4bn. That's 1 American for every 4 Indians and 4.3 Chinese.

That means that the USA's population is now smaller by proportion than it was when you were born, and thus actually further away from the population of China or India.

 

[polysmut]

You are quite right,our wild western frontier is a massive area, very dry, and largely uninhabited. The land is owned (per manifest destiny), and is not a place for man or beast to set up camp. No sir, I’m only speaking to the metro and urban areas where there are basic services like water and electricity.

I know you have me beat here, no doubt there’s space but would you move your family to the center of nowhere? No, I think not. You’ll settle in a city like Paris, London, Chicago, San Francisco, Prague...not the mountains or desert plains.

Can we agree on that?

You prefer to live somewhere with high population density then?

 

[mustafur]

What he is saying applies to Here in Australia, not the US.

My Grandad lives in a Town called Broken Hill which is basically the middle of nowhere and when he was having heart problems and needed surgery the nearest hospital was 500km away, but his specialist is in Sydney which is nearly 1200kms away, considering he wasn't fit for air travel you can see the problem, you don't ever get this problem in the states no matter where you live, and this isn't anywhere near as bad compared to places like Alice Springs, outside of major cities this country is completely empty, running out of fuel in the desert even on a major road means death it's that empty.

 

[Dotini]

Part of the myth of America has been unbridled optimism in the future; population growth, cellphones, sex robots and flying cars. We could talk about that, and should. We can't live without myths. Today's reality is shutdown government, insuperable debt and border walls. Which are much harder to talk about.

 

[PocketZeven]

I don't think that's necessary. It's one thing to question figures presented by a source and quite another to reject something that's easily observed.

It was partly a joke and hopefully @ryzno understood I was only kidding.

Without proper education on the subject one cannot observe the world is a sphere with just an observation. That is most likely the reason why some people the world is flat and why some people believe someone like Trump.

Why?

What is the question?

What he is saying applies to Here in Australia, not the US.

My Grandad lives in a Town called BrokeReplyn Hill which is basically the middle of nowhere and when he was having heart problems and needed surgery the nearest hospital was 500km away, but his specialist is in Sydney which is nearly 1200kms away, considering he wasn't fit for air travel you can see the problem, you don't ever get this problem in the states no matter where you live, and this isn't anywhere near as bad compared to places like Alice Springs, outside of major cities this country is completely empty, running out of fuel in the desert even on a major road means death it's that empty.

How is the Cell reception?

 

[TexRex]

It was partly a joke and hopefully @ryzno understood I was only kidding.

Without proper education on the subject one cannot observe the world is a sphere with just an observation. That is most likely the reason why some people the world is flat and why some people believe someone like Trump.

Given that other comments (by you as well as another) were ignored in favor of addressing only that completely unrelated question, I'd put money on there being no such understanding.

As far as observation of the Earth's shape, well that's really beside the point. The point is that you addressed an individual rather than their argument, and doing so calls into question the merit of your own (and others') contradictory position.

 

[ryzno]

That is most likely the reason why some people the world is flat and why some people believe someone like Trump.

So you think I'm stupid cause I support Trump. Got it.
I knew that wasn't a joke, it reeked of shade...

 

[PocketZeven]

Given that other comments (by you as well as another) were ignored in favor of addressing only that completely unrelated question, I'd put money on there being no such understanding.

As far as observation of the Earth's shape, well that's really beside the point. The point is that you addressed an individual rather than their argument, and doing so calls into question the merit of your own (and others') contradictory position.

So you think I'm stupid cause I support Trump. Got it.
I knew that wasn't a joke, it reeked of shade...

I wrongly believed there was such an understanding between me and @ryzno from past discussions. We established in the past that although we have opposing views we respect each others opinion.

I therefor apologise, it was only meant as friendly banter. No shade meant!

I only brought up the flatearth comment, because it was mentioned in an earlier comment by @Dogwolf77

 

[TexRex]

So you think I'm stupid cause I support Trump. Got it.
I knew that wasn't a joke, it reeked of shade...

I don't see that...at all.

As unnecessary as I think suggesting such a correlation was, both are indicative of an absence of critical thought. And I have the nagging suspicion that no such correlation would have been suggested had you demonstrated the critical thinking indicated by another.

 

[ryzno]

And I have the nagging suspicion that no such correlation would have been suggested had you demonstrated the critical thinking indicated by another.

Whatever. I left it simply as I don't. He put his own foot in his mouth answering your question.
He said what was really on his mind. If he had left it at the first sentence we wouldn't be talking about this now would we?
No critical thought needed there.

 

[TexRex]

 

[PocketZeven]

Whatever. I left it simply as I don't. He put his own foot in his mouth answering your question.
He said what was really on his mind. If he had left it at the first sentence we wouldn't be talking about this now would we?
No critical thought needed there.

(Taking foot out of my mouth) My message was basically to be critical as well on assumptions that the government is untruthfull or is lying. They definately do at times, but you shouldnt assume it.

 

[ryzno]

(Taking foot out of my mouth) My message was basically to be critical as well on assumptions that the government is untruthfull or is lying. They definately do at times, but you shouldnt assume it.

I didn't catch Dogs use of it and you kinda mocking it. I assumed it was directed at me since you quoted me. I got your PM and I apologize for the misunderstanding.

 

[PocketZeven]

I didn't catch Dogs use of it and you kinda mocking it. I assumed it was directed at me since you quoted me. I got your PM and I apologize for the misunderstanding.

It was directed at you. But meant as a joke to provoke critical thinking on the assumption that you can not by definition trust the government. But I see now how it may have been offensive, which wasnt my intention.

In other news. Is Trump even aware how people are suffering because of the Shutdown?

 

[Dogwolf77]

Then why must people occupy only those locations that are presently capable of supporting civilization?

I feel we have areas that should be developed and can accommodate people seeking a better life. Of course that notion lends itself to an environmental impact argument. But we don’t need to develop every square mile.

 

[ryzno]

It was directed at you. But meant as a joke to provoke critical thinking on the assumption that you can not by definition trust the government. But I see now how it may have been offensive, which wasnt my intention.

In other news. Is Trump even aware how people are suffering because of the Shutdown?

I don't think everything they say is a lie. From personal experience I do think the unemployment numbers are a lie.
I also don't think Famine is lying with his numbers. But I find it hard to accept numbers considering the people in question can't be counted.

 

[Joey D]

He moved from Michigan to Utah, so he kind of did exactly that!

 

[Dogwolf77]

The current estimated population of the USA is 327 million. Half of that number is 163.5 million, and the last time the US population was that low was somewhere in the mid-1950s (1960 Census: 179m; 1950 Census: 151m). Half of that number is 81.8m, and the last time the US population was that low was somewhere in the first decade of the 1900s (1900 Census: 76m; 1910 Census: 92m).

So congratulations on being the oldest verified member of GTPlanet, at a little over 110 years old, and thank you for your service during the Korean War.

Assuming that you were born when your profile says you were born and not in 1905, the US population was around 200m, with the India population at 553m and the Chinese population at somewhere around 800m (there's a big gap in their census data, so that's pretty rough). That's 1 American for every 2.25 Indians and 4 Chinese.

The current US population is 327m, with the Indian population at 1.3bn and the Chinese population at 1.4bn. That's 1 American for every 4 Indians and 4.3 Chinese.

That means that the USA's population is now smaller by proportion than it was when you were born, and thus actually further away from the population of China or India.

You nailed me there. A few months back I was researching some southern cities to possibly move to. I pulled demographics data from https://www.census.gov/ and from Wikipedia. Out of curiosity, I looked at my own nearby metro. You’re right it’s only double. I grew up in the 70’s, my city was vastly different back then,obviously. Focus on demographics not totals, there you’ll see the growth I referred to.

Here’s a graph that might not be easy to read.

Racial composition 2016[115] 2010[116] 1990[117] 1970[117]
White 61.6% 61.8% 75.8% 81.6%
—Non-Hispanic 56.5% 58.6% 75.2% 80.9%[118]
Black or African American 28.0% 27.5% 22.6% 18.0%
Hispanic or Latino (of any race) 9.9% 9.4% 1.1% 0.8%[118]
Asian 2.8% 2.1% 0.9% 0.1%

Census Pop. %±
1840 2,695 —
1850 8,091 200.2%
1860 18,611 130.0%
1870 48,244 159.2%
1880 75,056 55.6%
1890 105,436 40.5%
1900 169,164 60.4%
1910 233,650 38.1%
1920 314,194 34.5%
1930 364,161 15.9%
1940 386,972 6.3%
1950 427,173 10.4%
1960 476,258 11.5%
1970 744,624 56.3%
1980 700,807 −5.9%
1990 731,327 4.4%
2000 781,926 6.9%
2010 820,445 4.9%
Est. 2017 863,002 [112] 5.2%

 

[TexRex]

Is Trump even aware how people are suffering because of the Shutdown?

I imagine his thinking is something along the lines of "Those who want the wall are willing to endure the hardship; those who don't want the wall deserve to suffer."

I feel we have areas that should be developed and can accommodate people seeking a better life. Of course that notion lends itself to an environmental impact argument. But we don’t need to develop every square mile.

So much of what modern civilization does is subject to environmental concerns, but the answer isn't to cease development and take action to prevent further population growth.

But I find it hard to accept numbers considering the people in question can't be counted.

That, uh...that didn't stop you from accepting (and referring to repeatedly) a range of numbers so broad (half as many as there could be or double what there might be) as to suggest it was merely conjured up without even making an attempt to actually count.

 

[ryzno]

That, uh...that didn't stop you from accepting (and referring to repeatedly) a range of numbers so broad (half as many as there could be or double what there might be) as to suggest it was merely conjured up without even making an attempt to actually count.

Dude, I was asked where I got my numbers from cause it seemed like Famine thought I pulled them out of thin air. I never said they were concret or accepted them as fact. I asked multiple times for links that disputes my numbers I found. I said I'd gladly change my opinion if he could find reputable numbers that disagreed with mine.
I'm not gonna play his number games if he won't play mine.

 

[TexRex]

Dude, I was asked where I got my numbers from cause it seemed like Famine thought I pulled them out of thin air. I never said they were concret or accepted them as fact.

That you presented them in the first place suggests that you accept them enough to use them because you believe they support your position. Why do you accept those numbers but not others?

 

[ryzno]

That you presented them in the first place suggests that you accept them enough to use them because you believe they support your position. Why do you accept those numbers but not others?

I'm going to dismiss his numbers as long as he dismisses my numbers, or he provides a link disputing them.(an increase in immigrants leaving has nothing to do with him questioning my numbers of people in the caravan.
Regardless the people in the caravan aren't the problem.
I wouldn't be surprised if the cartels and coyotes are taking advantage of most of the attention being focused on Tijuana. I accept y'all think I'm dumb because I want a proper border with a country we know we have illegal immigration problems with.

 

[TexRex]

 

[ryzno]

Why not enlighten me then? I haven't seen a single person attempt to dispute the numbers I stated(expect with numbers that have nothing to do with the count of people down there), while they have no problem grilling the hell out of me. Y'all are playing a petty game shifting the goal posts. That's all y'all do is ask a thousand questions to avoid answering a question. I answer the damn question and I'm still wrong somehow.
Play ball if ya gonna play y'all.
I ain't got time for this BS.

 

[McLaren]

In other news. Is Trump even aware how people are suffering because of the Shutdown?

It's a bit funny to continue seeing you, an European member, have so much hostility about Trump and immigration control, wondering what the big deal is about immigration here. How upset are you that your own region is already doing the same? Even using the same words you constantly have issue with?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...trump-europe-border-walls-migrants/532572002/

"We have a serious immigration issue. Europe is not prepared. It is important to protect our sovereignty. I accept that," said Molnar, 47, sitting in his office in Kubekhaza, a short distance from the point where the boundaries of Hungary, Romania and Serbia meet.

"It serves no purpose other than political theater. It should come down. I would urge Americans to examine whether Trump’s wall will really make them safer or better off," Molnar said.

He pointed out that Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban, a staunch anti-immigration nationalist who easily just won a third term, had ordered $1 billion in electrified fencing equipped with cameras and heat sensors to keep out migrants.

Orban referred to refugees as "Muslim invaders" and vowed during the election campaign to protect Hungary from the "rust" of Muslim immigration.

Since the start of Europe's migrant crisis in 2015, at least 800 miles of fences have been erected by Austria, Bulgaria, Greece, Hungary, Macedonia, Slovenia and others — a swift and concrete reaction as more than 1.8 million people descended on Europe from war zones from Afghanistan to Syria.

The length is about 40% of the 2,000-mile wall Trump wants built between the United States and Mexico to keep out illegal immigrants. About 700 miles of fencing already exists.

Authorities claim Europe's anti-immigration barriers accomplish what they set out to do: Keep people away.

Hungary said the fences helped cut migrants on its borders by nearly 100% since 2015, along with a deal made by Turkey and the European Union to stem the flow of migrants reaching the continent.

These fences built in Europe differ from the one Trump wants along the Mexican border, said Ema Zuagen, 65, a retired physical therapist having coffee in Sevnica, Slovenia, the hometown of first lady Melania Trump.

"The thing about Trump’s wall is that it would keep out Mexicans and South Americans, who are mostly Catholic,” said Zuagen, who approves of the barriers. “Whereas our walls are keeping out immigrants who are mostly Islamic. There is a big difference."

Ah, Europe can keep immigrants seeking refuge out because they're Islamic. But, the US can't keep out South Americans because they're Catholic. Hmm, I wonder what awful assumption is behind that statement...

 

[Joey D]

I wouldn't be surprised if the cartels and coyotes are taking advantage of most of the attention being focused on Tijuana. I accept y'all think I'm dumb because I want a proper border with a country we know we have illegal immigration problems with.

I think most of us want a secure border. I don't see anyone suggesting it should be completely open. But I think many people doubt a wall's effectiveness at providing security, I know I do. It can and will be defeated by a ladder or even a hacksaw to cut through the metal slats.