America - The Official Thread

[TexRex]

I'd shag Christina Hendricks, marry Jewel Staite, and kill Morena Baccarin.

Found the Firefly nerd.

Do you think you would like to open a new thread on reparation? You may have to do painful research.

Deflection and obfuscation.

 

[Joey D]

Do you think you would like to open a new thread on reparation? You may have to do painful research.

Nope.

And I think I've done my research enough to know what you're proposing isn't legal, it literally states in the Constitution that property can only be seized for a public purpose.

Found the Firefly nerd.

Take my love, take my land
Take me where I cannot stand
I don't care, I'm still free
You can't take the sky from me

 

[TexRex]

That would be illegal under eminent domain laws. The government can only seize property for a public purpose, taking property and redistributing it to someone else is not for a public purpose, it's essentially for a private purpose since the property being seized won't be a public space.

Also, you know what happens if you ultimately refuse to give up your property? You're met with force to remove you from the property.

Take my love, take my land
Take me where I cannot stand
I don't care, I'm still free
You can't take the sky from me

 

[Joey D]

I swear by my pretty floral bonnet, I will end you.

 

[Dotini]

I swear by my pretty floral bonnet, I will end you.

I will drop my remarks on reparations for the moment.
However, as the summer moves along and it becomes a topic of national interest, it may inevitably come up again.

 

[McLaren]

What good would come from your plan? By taking property from someone who had nothing to do with slavery and giving it to someone else who was never a slave will cause a ton of problems. Nevermind that it is theft. Seriously if I owned property and the government tried to forcibly take it from me and give it to someone else just because of the color their skin, I'd fight tooth and nail to stop it. I probably wouldn't go Killdozer levels of mad, but I'd certainly find all legal means to stop it.

Also, suddenly giving $300k+ to millions of people will absolutely tank the economy with inflation. Not to mention you still haven't explained who would oversee the distribution other than the "black community". Without proper oversight, the trillions of dollars will certainly be misappropriated on some level. Corruption doesn't know skin color, it happens everywhere to every race of people.

This should be the end of discussion. Everyone's rich, but there's no longer a healthy economy to enjoy it in.

Reparations do not necessarily involve obliterating rights by force. Oh, a bit of imminent domain may be required. But current owners (say of apartment buildings) will always be compensated should their property need to be seized by the federal government. The situation at the moment is untenable.

I figured this is what you meant originally.

I don't think you have any idea how bad it is giving an apartment building to a person (of any race) that has no understanding of owning one. Apartments are residences for their renters/leases, businesses for their owners. And they are expensive for even modest complexes; in Dallas a 20-unit apartment is roughly $2,000,000. I have seen business sites list much larger, 200+ unit complexes around $10,000,000. I have seen 1 site list that the average unit costs around $50,000 to build & a unit priced around $1200/month should look to stay around $500/month in upkeep to ensure an overall profit for the complex. In other words, owning an apartment building can get expensive fast & I don't foresee anyone having $370K but no knowledge of owning these places lasting long. Add in keeping the residents happy if they don't choose to leave under the announcement of a new owner (which many do regardless of race), or that this will require beyond the $14 trillion just to black Americans.

 

[Dotini]

I don't think you have any idea how bad it is giving an apartment building to a person

By way of clarification, I meant to say that a current apartment owner would receive title only to his current apartment, not the entire building.

But over and above that, the whole set of idea(s) I hypothesized was mine only, and do not refer to any other schemes of reparation that have been proposed, past, present or future. A short time ago I agreed to Joey that I was ceasing posting on the topic of reparations, pending it becoming a nationally recognized issue this summer - if it does. In the meantime, I will research the history of reparations, research all past and present schemes of reparation, and then patiently wait and do nothing until reparation become a big issue - if ever.

 

[McLaren]

By way of clarification, I meant to say that a current apartment owner would receive title only to his current apartment, not the entire building.

Appreciate the clarification. It definitely seemed bizarre when you said "current owners" followed by "of apartment buildings" than a unit.

 

[Dotini]

Appreciate the clarification. It definitely seemed bizarre when you said "current owners" followed by "of apartment buildings" than a unit.

Yeah, thanks for that. I had assumed it impractical for a single apartment in an entire privately owned apartment building to become owned outright by the one tenant. But if the government bought the building through imminent domain or, better, new legislation, then it might become workable for some or all of the apartments to become owned by the tenants - or options of such offered - as the whole building was managed equitably for all tenants under a federal ownership/mandate until such time as private ownership/management would resume title(s). Sure, it's a weird idea, I know.

Again, I'm done with the whole topic for the present time, and hopefully forever.

 

[BobK]

That would be illegal under eminent domain laws. The government can only seize property for a public purpose, taking property and redistributing it to someone else is not for a public purpose, it's essentially for a private purpose since the property being seized won't be a public space.

Except in Rhode Island and Connecticut. Both states have seized property through eminent domain and turned it over to to businesses. The "public use" is the state can assess the business at a higher tax rate than the poor individual schmuck who doesn't really count.

 

[Liquid]

Except in Rhode Island and Connecticut. Both states have seized property through eminent domain and turned it over to to businesses. The "public use" is the state can assess the business at a higher tax rate than the poor individual schmuck who doesn't really count.

God bless America.

 

[Joey D]

Except in Rhode Island and Connecticut. Both states have seized property through eminent domain and turned it over to to businesses. The "public use" is the state can assess the business at a higher tax rate than the poor individual schmuck who doesn't really count.

I'm surprised they can get away with that and deem it Constitutional. But it's probably more of a case of those businesses/little guys not have the money and/or time to fight it all the way up to the Supreme Court.

 

[Liquid]

I'm surprised they can get away with that and deem it Constitutional. But it's probably more of a case of those businesses/little guys not have the money and/or time to fight it all the way up to the Supreme Court.

You shouldn't have to need a huge amount of budget get your constitutional rights to apply for you.

 

[BobK]

I'm surprised they can get away with that and deem it Constitutional. But it's probably more of a case of those businesses/little guys not have the money and/or time to fight it all the way up to the Supreme Court.

Or the opportunity. I don 't know about Connecticut but in Rhode Island the poor sap has thirty days from the date of the decision to appeal. And the state/town is under no obligation to notify you of the decision in a timely manner. It's basically a "legal" shafting.

 

[Danoff]

Or the opportunity. I don 't know about Connecticut but in Rhode Island the poor sap has thirty days from the date of the decision to appeal. And the state/town is under no obligation to notify you of the decision in a timely manner. It's basically a "legal" shafting.

The Connecticut case you cited is Kelo v New London. That's a US supereme court case and a notorious one at that. It is one of the worst supreme court decisions we've gotten in modern memory. Absolutely appalling.

 

[GranTurNismo]

The Connecticut case you cited is Kelo v New London. That's a US supereme court case and a notorious one at that. It is one of the worst supreme court decisions we've gotten in modern memory. Absolutely appalling.

It pales in comparison to Citizens United v FEC

 

[Danoff]

It pales in comparison to Citizens United v FEC

I don't think so.

 

[TenEightyOne]

The Connecticut case you cited is Kelo v New London. That's a US supereme court case and a notorious one at that. It is one of the worst supreme court decisions we've gotten in modern memory. Absolutely appalling.

I wasn't aware of that case. Absolute stinker of a decision.

Citizens United v FEC

Also a stinker. Having appointed myself the unofficial arbiter of whose-case-is-stinkiest, the winner is....

Spoiler

@Danoff by a country mile. That case sets a precedent for property seizure for public-but-not-necessarily-public uses or purposes, not a good thing. The CUvFEC case enables scenarios that are at least counterable in speech through the same methods

 

[CTznOfTime]

What do you all think is said here:






Abraham Lincoln said, "America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we lose our freedoms it will be because we have destroyed ourselves from within."

 

[Joey D]

Some Republicans will, but most won't because he's Republican and he's better than a Democrat. That's essentially what it comes down too. I can't imagine most sensible Republicans like Trump, but come November he'll be better than Biden in their eyes. In terms of politicians supporting/not supporting Trump, you'll likely see them continue to toe the line because they're looking out for their own reelection. Honestly, Romeny has been the only one to really speak up about Trump and by doing so he's pretty much guaranteed he'll be out when he's up for reelection.

 

[GranTurNismo]

Some Republicans will, but most won't because he's Republican and he's better than a Democrat. That's essentially what it comes down too. I can't imagine most sensible Republicans like Trump, but come November he'll be better than Biden in their eyes. In terms of politicians supporting/not supporting Trump, you'll likely see them continue to toe the line because they're looking out for their own reelection. Honestly, Romeny has been the only one to really speak up about Trump and by doing so he's pretty much guaranteed he'll be out when he's up for reelection.

Again reminding you that Trump's approval rating within his own party is 90%.

While it's admirable that Romney not only has spoken against Trump and even protested in solidarity with BLM activists (though he's just another evangelical reactionary at the end of the day), I don't think any other Republicans in the House or Senate will do this. For speaking against Trump, Romney has not only been vilified by Fox News and other major Republican platforms, but by his own voter base. It's going to cost him the election. What I predict with Utah is what will happen with Alabama in 2018. The Republican candidate is so disliked that a mediocre Democrat ends up winning, who will have a low approval rating within their state, and come next election another Republican will win. If I'm not wrong, Utah is the most religious state in the entire nation, even more than anywhere in the deep south; I'll double check but I'm pretty sure 85% of Utahans (whatever they're even called) belong to a religion, and from what I can see there's no sign of this changing. This basically ensures Republican wins for generations.

It's a shame that speaking out against one of the worst people to ever hold office in the US is political suicide, all because that person is the same party as you. America is more partisan now than I think it's ever been.

 

[CTznOfTime]

Again reminding you that Trump's approval rating within his own party is 90%.

While it's admirable that Romney not only has spoken against Trump and even protested in solidarity with BLM activists (though he's just another evangelical reactionary at the end of the day), I don't think any other Republicans in the House or Senate will do this. For speaking against Trump, Romney has not only been vilified by Fox News and other major Republican platforms, but by his own voter base. It's going to cost him the election. What I predict with Utah is what will happen with Alabama in 2018. The Republican candidate is so disliked that a mediocre Democrat ends up winning, who will have a low approval rating within their state, and come next election another Republican will win. If I'm not wrong, Utah is the most religious state in the entire nation, even more than anywhere in the deep south; I'll double check but I'm pretty sure 85% of Utahans (whatever they're even called) belong to a religion, and from what I can see there's no sign of this changing. This basically ensures Republican wins for generations.

It's a shame that speaking out against one of the worst people to ever hold office in the US is political suicide, all because that person is the same party as you. America is more partisan now than I think it's ever been.

This is corruption. It needs to end. All those facilitating this structure and scheme is guilty of it... the people everywhere, working within any big corporation are held accountable with respect to corruption, and yet the elite and the politicians are immune to it, flagrantly too as you are pointing out...

EDIT: along with Gerrymandering and the Electoral College... those are the root causes of this corruption and we will never change for the better if those things are not amended...

Democrat or Republican... i dont care as long as it is fair for all and free of corruption...

EDIT2: Financially America and all other country need to regulate private equity stuff.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

America is more partisan now than I think it's ever been.

It definitely seems that way. Whichever way it goes, I hope neither party gets too crazy but I have my doubts.

After making a great effort to run up the score in the primaries against basically no competition, Trump's winning a little less than 95% of the Republican primary vote overall. That looks a lot like the polling for the general election putting him at a little less than 95% of the Republican vote. It's going to be difficult for him to get much beyond that.

Indeed, Trump has higher support among Republican voters right now than any Republican since at least 2000. You can see this in the ABC News/Washington Post poll. That one, like Monmouth's and NBC/Wall Street Journal's, has Trump nearly to 95% (at 94%), while Biden lingers at a mere 4%.

Dating back to 2000, no Republican ever had more than 91% of Republicans backing him at this point in ABC News/Washington Post polling. The average Republican had 84% of Republicans behind him. A base-first strategy in those elections made a lot more sense than one during the Trump era.
...
Where Trump is weak is outside the Republican base. In the ABC/Washington Post (the numbers are similar for Monmouth and NBC News/Wall Street Journal), Trump's at 39% among independents and 3% among Democrats. Both of those are lower than any Republican at this point in ABC News/Washington Post polling dating back to 2000.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/07/politics/trump-base-analysis/index.html

 

[Joey D]

Again reminding you that Trump's approval rating within his own party is 90%.

While it's admirable that Romney not only has spoken against Trump and even protested in solidarity with BLM activists (though he's just another evangelical reactionary at the end of the day), I don't think any other Republicans in the House or Senate will do this. For speaking against Trump, Romney has not only been vilified by Fox News and other major Republican platforms, but by his own voter base. It's going to cost him the election. What I predict with Utah is what will happen with Alabama in 2018. The Republican candidate is so disliked that a mediocre Democrat ends up winning, who will have a low approval rating within their state, and come next election another Republican will win. If I'm not wrong, Utah is the most religious state in the entire nation, even more than anywhere in the deep south; I'll double check but I'm pretty sure 85% of Utahans (whatever they're even called) belong to a religion, and from what I can see there's no sign of this changing. This basically ensures Republican wins for generations.

It's a shame that speaking out against one of the worst people to ever hold office in the US is political suicide, all because that person is the same party as you. America is more partisan now than I think it's ever been.

Romney is just taking after his dad who marched with civil rights leaders in Michigan back in the 1960s. At that time the LDS Church was incredibly racist and said that blacks had the "Mark of Cain". I don't really know all the ins and outs of it, but apparently what George Romney did was pretty revolutionary for a Mormon. He was supposed to even meet with MLK Jr., but only didn't because MLK Jr. was in Detroit on a Sunday and Romney observed the Sabbath.

Weirdly enough, Mittens approval is actually on the rise in Utah. There are still billboards all over I-15 calling for his resignation, but those are all in Utah County and all the smart Utahns stay out of there.

Utah is the most religious state in the union and something like 80% identifying as Mormon. However, this is quickly changing. Younger people are leaving the LDS Church and we have a huge influx of out of state people moving here (like me) and bringing all their ideas with them. Still not enough to swing the balance, but enough to make Salt Lake City fairly liberal. The surrounding area of the valley though is still very much conservative and Utah county is probably 95% Republican, if not more. However, I think Mormons really only vote Republican for two reasons. They're very anti-abortion and they're very pro-second amendment. Seriously, every Mormon I know has a goddamn arsenal in their house and it all stems back to the US government invading Utah back in the 1800s. Most Mormons hate Trump and that's why Evan McMullin had such a strong turn out in Utah in 2016, but until any other party comes forward with an idea to ban abortion, they'll keep voting Republican.

I haven't fully looked at the ballot for Utah yet, but I suspect there will be another candidate like McMullin on there this time around (something like Utah First Party). Given how much Mormons dislike Trump, I could see a third-party candidate actually winning the state, especially if the LDS Church gets behind them. Utah's measly electoral votes won't put a damper on anything, but it would send a strong message.

 

[GranTurNismo]

It definitely seems that way. Whichever way it goes, I hope neither party gets too crazy but I have my doubts.



https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/07/politics/trump-base-analysis/index.html

Fake news!! Fake news!! Only One America News Network tells the truth.

Romney is just taking after his dad who marched with civil rights leaders in Michigan back in the 1960s. At that time the LDS Church was incredibly racist and said that blacks had the "Mark of Cain". I don't really know all the ins and outs of it, but apparently what George Romney did was pretty revolutionary for a Mormon. He was supposed to even meet with MLK Jr., but only didn't because MLK Jr. was in Detroit on a Sunday and Romney observed the Sabbath.

Weirdly enough, Mittens approval is actually on the rise in Utah. There are still billboards all over I-15 calling for his resignation, but those are all in Utah County and all the smart Utahns stay out of there.

Utah is the most religious state in the union and something like 80% identifying as Mormon. However, this is quickly changing. Younger people are leaving the LDS Church and we have a huge influx of out of state people moving here (like me) and bringing all their ideas with them. Still not enough to swing the balance, but enough to make Salt Lake City fairly liberal. The surrounding area of the valley though is still very much conservative and Utah county is probably 95% Republican, if not more. However, I think Mormons really only vote Republican for two reasons. They're very anti-abortion and they're very pro-second amendment. Seriously, every Mormon I know has a goddamn arsenal in their house and it all stems back to the US government invading Utah back in the 1800s. Most Mormons hate Trump and that's why Evan McMullin had such a strong turn out in Utah in 2016, but until any other party comes forward with an idea to ban abortion, they'll keep voting Republican.

I haven't fully looked at the ballot for Utah yet, but I suspect there will be another candidate like McMullin on there this time around (something like Utah First Party). Given how much Mormons dislike Trump, I could see a third-party candidate actually winning the state, especially if the LDS Church gets behind them. Utah's measly electoral votes won't put a damper on anything, but it would send a strong message.

Even more strangely, after seeing that article it seems there's a surprisingly large gender gap between who supports Romney; nearly 25% more women support him than men.

I honestly did know you live in Utah, thought you were a Michiganan/Michiganian (whichever is right). Then again a lot of people here are from MI so it makes sense that I mixed you up.

 

[Joey D]

Even more strangely, after seeing that article it seems there's a surprisingly large gender gap between who supports Romney; nearly 25% more women support him than men.

I honestly did know you live in Utah, thought you were a Michiganan/Michiganian (whichever is right). Then again a lot of people here are from MI so it makes sense that I mixed you up.

I'm not even making this up, but Mormon women, both young and old, find Romney attractive so that probably has something to do with it.

And I used to live in Michigan, I moved out to Utah almost four years ago because a health system out here threw a pile of money at me to come work for them. Both my family and my wife's family all live back in Michigan though so I pay attention to what's going on there.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

I'm not even making this up, but Mormon women, both young and old, find Romney attractive so that probably has something to do with it.

And I used to live in Michigan, I moved out to Utah almost four years ago because a health system out here threw a pile of money at me to come work for them. Both my family and my wife's family all live back in Michigan though so I pay attention to what's going on there.

I think this is a fair question considering the thread (and maybe a welcome distraction) but how are you liking Utah overall? It's a state that isn't really on my radar but maybe it should be. I certainly dig the landscape.

 

[TexRex]

I'm not even making this up, but Mormon women, both young and old, find Romney attractive so that

I couldn't be compelled to switch teams for him, but he does have a bit of a silver fox thing going for him. He's also well-spoken (even if I don't like better than half of what he says) and has a nice voice (I mean...he's no Sam Elliott).

Really though, I can't fathom how a woman would find a Morman man appealing regardless of any external characteristic.

I think this is a fair question considering the thread (and maybe a welcome distraction) but how are you liking Utah overall? It's a state that isn't really on my radar but maybe it should be. I certainly dig the landscape.

Do you drink?

 

[Chrunch Houston]

This cancel Culture has got to end. I really want to watch Gone With the Wind now. I sat on the couch with my parents and watched it on tv when I was a kid. I thought it was long and boring. I want to watch it now that I am an adult. Apparently it has been cancelled.





STOP ERASING OUR HISTORY!

 

[TenEightyOne]

STOP ERASING OUR HISTORY!

You might be confused, the film isn't being erased. A channel (is that what HBO is?) aren't going to show it any more. Good, it's a piece of racist crap. A piece of very racist crap.