Andy Tudor: Gran Turismo and Forza Are Playing Catch Up With Project CARS 2

Welcome to mid-engined race cars. Don't blame the game for something that can just as easily be explained by user inexperience. They're legitimately hard to drive for people who haven't experienced that type of car before.


Not inexperienced by any means my friend I’ve been playing racing sims for quite some time ! Could be the way I’m tuning the cars or maybe I need to adjust how I’m driving in PC2 seems how I just watched some of Scaffs videos and he seems to be driving pretty smooth not super fast but fast and smooth may have to take some pointers from him !
 
Not inexperienced by any means my friend I’ve been playing racing sims for quite some time ! Could be the way I’m tuning the cars or maybe I need to adjust how I’m driving in PC2 seems how I just watched some of Scaffs videos and he seems to be driving pretty smooth not super fast but fast and smooth may have to take some pointers from him !

You're clearly inexperienced with a low-power mid-engined formula car though, or you'd know that the FC behaves more or less as you'd expect from a car of that type and you'd apply the skills that you learned from other similar cars to master it. Playing for a long time doesn't mean you magically know how to handle every car type.

Look up tutorials for the Skip Barber in iRacing. Fundamentally it's very similar, and the same techniques apply to being smooth and fast with it.
 
You're clearly inexperienced with a low-power mid-engined formula car though, or you'd know that the FC behaves more or less as you'd expect from a car of that type and you'd apply the skills that you learned from other similar cars to master it. Playing for a long time doesn't mean you magically know how to handle every car type.

Look up tutorials for the Skip Barber in iRacing. Fundamentally it's very similar, and the same techniques apply to being smooth and fast with it.
You’re a funny guy I encourage you to check my YouTube channel I’m far from inexperienced as I stated before and I have you note that I do apply skills I’ve learned both from watching and racing against others and from other games although all games are not the same !

If you are implying that I was racing formula C because I was inexperienced again you are mistaken I was simply trying the discipline as most do when a new game comes about !

I’ve also seen “skip barbers racing “ videos as well so again don’t assume because someone is having an issue with a particular style car that he or she is inexperienced because that I am not nor did I contribute to this thread to bash any one person only to give my opinion on the topic at hand

Thanks for playing !
 
If you are implying that I was racing formula C because I was inexperienced again you are mistaken I was simply trying the discipline as most do when a new game comes about !

Reading comprehension. You don't got it.

I said you were inexperienced with Formula C and cars of it's type. Was I wrong? It's either that, or you're experienced but you just haven't grasped the nuance of driving them. As I said, they can be tricky.

I’ve also seen “skip barbers racing “ videos as well so again don’t assume because someone is having an issue with a particular style car that he or she is inexperienced because that I am not...

You're certainly awfully defensive about it. You've sure convinced me. Now you just have to convince the car that you know what you're doing.

I mean, I can see your videos of you driving mid-engined race cars, and I'm pretty sure you haven't quite got the whole lift-off-to-oversteer-accelerate-to-understeer thing. You're not making much use of it, at least. If you start losing the back in these cars, just put your foot down. Which means that usually the fastest way around a corner is slow-in/fast-out, which is great because that's also the fastest way down the following straight.

Seriously, by the time you can drift a Skip Barber around corners at will you've got it nailed. Until then...you will struggle. Take the Formula Rookie or Formula C and start going sideways through corners. It will come to you. Eventually you'll be powersliding the Lotus 49 around every corner and something like the Formula C will seem like a child's toy.

... when I’m driving a formula C in PC2 and have to lower the difficulty to stupid just to clear it because the car looses traction as soon as I let off the gas is ridiculous!

I mean, clearly it's ridiculous that the car oversteers when you let off the gas. Tell you what, why don't you share some of your years of experience and tell the rest of us what should a car like the Formula C do in that situation? Understeer? Stall? Do a barrel roll?

Let me know, and I'll explain it to the Formula C that I'm currently using to win the US Championship. I call her Sally. I'm sure she'd love to know what she's doing wrong.

P.S. Don't get me wrong, the Formula C is a twitchy little bastard. But it's not undriveable, nor are slides uncatchable (with a wheel, anyway), nor is it's behaviour particularly unusual given the physical structure of the car.

P.P.S. Having a Youtube channel does not make you a good driver. Just sayin'.
 
Reading comprehension. You don't got it.

I said you were inexperienced with Formula C and cars of it's type. Was I wrong? It's either that, or you're experienced but you just haven't grasped the nuance of driving them. As I said, they can be tricky.



You're certainly awfully defensive about it. You've sure convinced me. Now you just have to convince the car that you know what you're doing.

I mean, I can see your videos of you driving mid-engined race cars, and I'm pretty sure you haven't quite got the whole lift-off-to-oversteer-accelerate-to-understeer thing. You're not making much use of it, at least. If you start losing the back in these cars, just put your foot down. Which means that usually the fastest way around a corner is slow-in/fast-out, which is great because that's also the fastest way down the following straight.

Seriously, by the time you can drift a Skip Barber around corners at will you've got it nailed. Until then...you will struggle. Take the Formula Rookie or Formula C and start going sideways through corners. It will come to you. Eventually you'll be powersliding the Lotus 49 around every corner and something like the Formula C will seem like a child's toy.



I mean, clearly it's ridiculous that the car oversteers when you let off the gas. Tell you what, why don't you share some of your years of experience and tell the rest of us what should a car like the Formula C do in that situation? Understeer? Stall? Do a barrel roll?

Let me know, and I'll explain it to the Formula C that I'm currently using to win the US Championship. I call her Sally. I'm sure she'd love to know what she's doing wrong.

P.S. Don't get me wrong, the Formula C is a twitchy little bastard. But it's not undriveable, nor are slides uncatchable (with a wheel, anyway), nor is it's behaviour particularly unusual given the physical structure of the car.

P.P.S. Having a Youtube channel does not make you a good driver. Just sayin'.


First off I do understand oversteer and understeer so I may have misread your comment I’m sorry it’s 3am where I am !

I’m really trying to figure you why you feel the need to insult me for posting my comment on a game just curious ?

And if you watched any of my videos on my channel you’d see that I understand how to drive a damn car ! Am I the fastest no not by a long shot ! Am I trying to be the best in the world nope not that either oh and am I trying to win a U.S championship nope can’t say that am but props to you if that’s what you’re doing !

I also know how to read quite well my friend as I CLEARLY STATED BEFORE ! I didnt comment on this thread to debate not prove my driving skill or insult anyone or be insulted, but you clearly are attempting to do so to me says quite a bit about you my friend !

Tons of people have “Twitter Fingers” but that’s all they have and I refuse to argue with you any longer or hear how great you are since you’re racing to be a champion and all ! So be easy have a great night and stop with the damn Twitter fingers it’s a game for Christ sake!

Oh and I get defensive when someone attacks me for an opinion I post about a video game most people would !
 
First off I do understand oversteer and understeer so I may have misread your comment I’m sorry it’s 3am where I am !

I’m really trying to figure you why you feel the need to insult me for posting my comment on a game just curious ?

Firstly, inexperienced is only an insult if you take it to be one. You have a solid page of how you know better how a car is supposed to behave, but when pressed on that knowledge you came up pretty short.

There are car types that I don't know how to drive, but I don't get mad when someone says I'm inexperienced with them. I am. It's true. It wasn't intended as an insult as much as a humorous way to start talking about how you could handle the car. Possibly not a great one, but I'm a human. We make mistakes.

Well, I do anyway. I wouldn't want to anger you by implying that you also make mistakes. You might take that as an insult. I'll leave you to make your own statements about whether or not you make mistakes.

And if you watched any of my videos on my channel you’d see that I understand how to drive a damn car !

See, there's a difference between pushing the pedals and turning the wheel and actually having a fundamental understanding of what it takes to make a machine go fast. My grandmother can drive a damn car, as you put it. Still, I wouldn't go to her for racing advice. Or any sort of car advice. You see the difference?

You can certainly go around a track. But you said you had problems with the Formula C. For reasons that more experienced racers would consider fundamental behaviours to the car. You may have years of driving mid-engined racing cars (I sort of doubt it, not in a real sim anyway), but you don't understand the nuance of how they work.

You'll notice that in the last couple of posts I actually tried to give some sensible advice on how cars like the FC are different and how you might want to go about learning more to drive that sort of car well. Skip Barber. The reversal of understeer and oversteer. Learning to drift the cars.

It's one thing to stir the pot of someone who is so clearly easily triggered, but it would be mean to do so without at least giving some information that might be to their benefit as well. I figured if you could get your head around the fact that you maybe aren't as awesome as you paint yourself to be, then you might come out of this a better driver.

But I guess that would imply you admitting that you actually having something to learn. Up to you.

Am I trying to be the best in the world nope not that either oh and am I trying to win a U.S championship nope can’t say that am but props to you if that’s what you’re doing !

You don't play any of the single player parts of the game? Lots of championships in there. We are on a game forum talking about a game, after all. I don't think it's worth any props to say "I'm playing a game". It's sort of a given.

I also know how to read quite well my friend as I CLEARLY STATED BEFORE

Just because you say something doesn't make it true. There's abundant evidence that you're flying off the handle well before you've actually absorbed the message.

I didnt comment on this thread to debate not prove my driving skill or insult anyone or be insulted, but you clearly are attempting to do so to me says quite a bit about you my friend !

I was having a fun jibe, but you took it and ran. It was a play on the old "Problem Exists Between User And Keyboard" trope, but then I softened it by pointing out that those cars are legitimately difficult and unintuitive for people who are unused to them. Apparently, people like you.

You could have gone for "yeah, so how are you supposed to drive it then?" But you went for "nuh uh, I do know what I'm doing and I have a Youtube channel so shut up".

Admittedly, that got me. I took the bait. Well done. I could not resist. Even with hindsight, I would be powerless to resist the urge to make snide comments at such tasty bait. 10/10 IGN, would reply again.

Tons of people have “Twitter Fingers” but that’s all they have and I refuse to argue with you any longer or hear how great you are since you’re racing to be a champion and all !

Uh, you know that Project CARS has championships in it? One of them for the Formula C? And that one of those is the US Championship?

That's what I meant about reading comprehension.

I'm not talking myself up. I'm talking about how at this moment I too am playing Project CARS 2, and happen to be racing with this exact car that we're talking about. Perhaps that's difficult to comprehend.

You know that the Formula C is a fantasy car, right? There's no exact real world equivalent? The only place I could be racing a Formula C championship is in game. I thought that was fairly self-explanatory but perhaps not. Perhaps not at 3 in the morning, anyway.

I'm not great. I'm just playing a game on the weekend. If that's the bar for greatness then by damn we're all great.

So be easy have a great night and stop with the damn Twitter fingers it’s a game for Christ sake!

I tell you what, I'll post what I feel like within the AUP, and you post what you like. Sound reasonable?

Oh and I get defensive when someone attacks me for an opinion I post about a video game most people would !

You think it's an attack to call you inexperienced? A spade is a spade, mate. Chill out.

There's nothing wrong with saying "this Formula C is hard, how are you supposed to drive this thing?" I'd say pretty much everyone has at some point had advice from someone else on how to deal with a tough car or track. When you put your opinion about car behaviours out there it's going to be looked at. If it's wrong, it'll be addressed. That's sort of how forums work.
 
Firstly, inexperienced is only an insult if you take it to be one. You have a solid page of how you know better how a car is supposed to behave, but when pressed on that knowledge you came up pretty short.

There are car types that I don't know how to drive, but I don't get mad when someone says I'm inexperienced with them. I am. It's true. It wasn't intended as an insult as much as a humorous way to start talking about how you could handle the car. Possibly not a great one, but I'm a human. We make mistakes.

Well, I do anyway. I wouldn't want to anger you by implying that you also make mistakes. You might take that as an insult. I'll leave you to make your own statements about whether or not you make mistakes.



See, there's a difference between pushing the pedals and turning the wheel and actually having a fundamental understanding of what it takes to make a machine go fast. My grandmother can drive a damn car, as you put it. Still, I wouldn't go to her for racing advice. Or any sort of car advice. You see the difference?

You can certainly go around a track. But you said you had problems with the Formula C. For reasons that more experienced racers would consider fundamental behaviours to the car. You may have years of driving mid-engined racing cars (I sort of doubt it, not in a real sim anyway), but you don't understand the nuance of how they work.

You'll notice that in the last couple of posts I actually tried to give some sensible advice on how cars like the FC are different and how you might want to go about learning more to drive that sort of car well. Skip Barber. The reversal of understeer and oversteer. Learning to drift the cars.

It's one thing to stir the pot of someone who is so clearly easily triggered, but it would be mean to do so without at least giving some information that might be to their benefit as well. I figured if you could get your head around the fact that you maybe aren't as awesome as you paint yourself to be, then you might come out of this a better driver.

But I guess that would imply you admitting that you actually having something to learn. Up to you.



You don't play any of the single player parts of the game? Lots of championships in there. We are on a game forum talking about a game, after all. I don't think it's worth any props to say "I'm playing a game". It's sort of a given.



Just because you say something doesn't make it true. There's abundant evidence that you're flying off the handle well before you've actually absorbed the message.



I was having a fun jibe, but you took it and ran. It was a play on the old "Problem Exists Between User And Keyboard" trope, but then I softened it by pointing out that those cars are legitimately difficult and unintuitive for people who are unused to them. Apparently, people like you.

You could have gone for "yeah, so how are you supposed to drive it then?" But you went for "nuh uh, I do know what I'm doing and I have a Youtube channel so shut up".

Admittedly, that got me. I took the bait. Well done. I could not resist. Even with hindsight, I would be powerless to resist the urge to make snide comments at such tasty bait. 10/10 IGN, would reply again.



Uh, you know that Project CARS has championships in it? One of them for the Formula C? And that one of those is the US Championship?

That's what I meant about reading comprehension.

I'm not talking myself up. I'm talking about how at this moment I too am playing Project CARS 2, and happen to be racing with this exact car that we're talking about. Perhaps that's difficult to comprehend.

You know that the Formula C is a fantasy car, right? There's no exact real world equivalent? The only place I could be racing a Formula C championship is in game. I thought that was fairly self-explanatory but perhaps not. Perhaps not at 3 in the morning, anyway.

I'm not great. I'm just playing a game on the weekend. If that's the bar for greatness then by damn we're all great.



I tell you what, I'll post what I feel like within the AUP, and you post what you like. Sound reasonable?



You think it's an attack to call you inexperienced? A spade is a spade, mate. Chill out.

There's nothing wrong with saying "this Formula C is hard, how are you supposed to drive this thing?" I'd say pretty much everyone has at some point had advice from someone else on how to deal with a tough car or track. When you put your opinion about car behaviours out there it's going to be looked at. If it's wrong, it'll be addressed. That's sort of how forums work.


Ok so I’ll respond one last time or maybe another depending. You speak very intelligently I might add and no I’m not being sarcastic by any means. I actually did admit it could be me several time mate! Maybe you missed that part when I said I could learn from Scaff guess while you were dissecting g my post you missed that part huh? Lol it’s ok no worries and I never said I don’t make mistakes and that I’m great because I have a YouTube channel let’s get that part out of the way . You called me inexperienced which I replied I can drive look at my channel where I drive many different cars from road cars to rally to F1 cars but no where in the videos or here did I say I was “Great” nope not once!

I am not easily triggered that’s a funny one this is just entertaining to me. I have a guy who knows nothing about me but yet thinks I have no idea how a car is supposed to drive based on comments I wrote in a forum. Yet he talks about drifting formula cars as if one can do that in real life ! I’d like to see how that turned out in a race and if that driver got pole or not .

You did get me though I didn’t realize that formula C was not a real car. I assumed that because it’s in a game that is supposed to be a racing simulator it was real my mistake ! Oh wait did I just admit that I made another mistake? Yup I did will ya look at that I think I just made it to human status lol amazing !

You talk about how I posted here claiming to be some type of expert and that’s just not the case I was simply restating what many others have said on many forums regarding PC 2 , but after I watched some of scaffs videos I said that I could learn from him so how is that being an expert ?!

I actually know quite about about cars to be honest I would have to I work at a shop so yes “I know how to drive a damn car” and work on them as well I have a pretty good understanding what oversteer and understeer are as when I tune vehicles in the “Game” I tune to limit or increase that characteristic in the car I’m driving as well as ride height dampening force downforce and I even play with differential settings ! Oh wait damn there I go again naming things regarding cars that I know a little about you might think I’m trying to be an expert again! Then you’ll say I’m an expert tuner but can’t drive a formula C so I’ll stop I don’t wanna give you the wrong impression again.

The bottom line throughout all this nonsense is I and others feel and felt as though PC doesn’t perform well on “console “ and some of the cars are rubbish I can always learn to be a better driver I can’t tell you how many time attack videos I watched to see what the other guy is doing that I am not or how I spend hours tuning one car to shave off seconds in the game. That’s what this is about! Shoot I’m not even in the top 10 on most tracks let alone any but I do the best I can. I just wish PC2 handled a bit better and if people wanna love the game for how it is to each is own! It the same as people love GT but to think that cars are perfect in PC and there is nothing at all wrong with the handling is just wrong GT isn’t perfect nor is a game like iracing although iracing is probably as close as it gets , but we all need to learn from each other to make a better gaming community. It’s not about bashing each other or being triggered, etc it’s about being away from our women and kids if we have any for a few hours a day and playing a game like the grown ass kids we are lol

Have a good night
 
I have a guy who knows nothing about me but yet thinks I have no idea how a car is supposed to drive based on comments I wrote in a forum. Yet he talks about drifting formula cars as if one can do that in real life ! I’d like to see how that turned out in a race and if that driver got pole or not .

Again with the reading comprehension. :rolleyes:

I suggested practising drifting in cars like the Formula Rookie or Formula C. Like, if you wanted to become better and not be so frustrated with losing the back end then it's a really good (and fun!) way to gain that skill. You can take the advice or not, it was just a suggestion. But that you find it worth mocking is a bit disappointing. Try it in game. You'll be surprised, I promise.



Just because a car has "Formula" in it's name doesn't mean you can't slide it around. Particularly on lower grip surfaces, like a rainy track. You say you watched tutorials on Skip Barber. Did they show sliding it around like above? They should have and you can. In fact, the way that mid and rear engined cars develop slip angle in response to weight transfer is a big part of why they're so popular in racing (and why they're not popular on the road).

I know about you what you've posted on this forum. This thread, to be specific. All you've said so far tells me that you don't know how a car like the Formula C should behave. I remember when I was in that place not so many years ago, and it was frustrating until someone pointing out that it's a very different style of driving and that I was going about it all wrong. I was told to go look at the things that I'm telling you to look at, and it helped. I would encourage you to do the same, but it's not entirely clear that you want to get better.

I may mock (and I do enjoy it), but you'll notice that my posts contain advice on how to drive the cars better. If you're not interested in becoming a better driver just say so and I'll go away.

I actually know quite about about cars to be honest I would have to I work at a shop so yes “I know how to drive a damn car” and work on them as well I have a pretty good understanding what oversteer and understeer are as when I tune vehicles in the “Game” I tune to limit or increase that characteristic in the car I’m driving as well as ride height dampening force downforce and I even play with differential settings !

I see you missed the point about being able to drive and knowing how to extract speed from a car. Everyone can drive. It's two pedals and a wheel, it's not rocket surgery. Everyone can be fast, but not everyone is.

Watching your Youtube, you're a decent driver but not a great one. You're definitely well above at least two thirds of the racing populations. You're smooth and you have an appreciation of a good line. But there's still plenty more to learn, and the FC is apparently one of those things.

Being a mechanic and knowing how to tune a car really has very little to do with driving. There are plenty of mechanics that just can't drive that well. That's why they're mechanics, and not race drivers. I mean, you might as well say that aerospace engineers make excellent pilots. That's not how it works. They're different skill sets, and while there's some common information the physical abilities and knowledge required are often quite unique.

I just wish PC2 handled a bit better and if people wanna love the game for how it is to each is own!

But what is "a bit better"? Is it "a bit more accurately to real life"? Or is it "in a way that lets me be faster"? What are you looking for when you say "better"?

Let's be specific, what actual faults are there with PC2 in terms of physics? I'm not a long way in, I've got something like 15 hours and I've driven maybe a dozen cars. Some are hard, some to the point where I even questioned whether they were accurately so. But so far, whenever I go and look up more information and videos about a car it seems like PC2 is at least close enough that any differences could be chalked up to environmental conditions and the like. The cars really do drive like that.

I've just been through investigating the Aventador today (which I highly recommend driving if you haven't, it's hilariously fun on Long Beach). The suspicion was that it wasn't stopping or gripping like it should (as in some ways it's a bit like a marine craft), but it turns out that it's actually pretty accurate. It's just that 700hp means you're always going faster than you should, and 1800kg of car is a lot for any tyre to haul around a corner. With the right technique, it's actually an incredibly sweet drive and very satisfying. Just don't use the hard tyre, because it's not enough for a car of that weight and power.

If you've got actual faults that you've come across then I'm curious, because I like looking into that stuff. I legitimately enjoy fiddling with physics systems to find their strengths and weaknesses. But the Formula C is not one of the problems, not as far as I can tell. The worst you can say about it is that the default loose setup is a bit of a handful.

I'm fiddling with the setup a bit myself, but cautiously because that instability is also a big part of what makes it so quick, if you can tame it. It's rewarding, it's just that the line between quick and in-the-wall is very narrow and there's nothing really in between.
 
Looking at the current state of play, I'm not seeing a clear leader as all 3 games have made seriously major missteps:

  • pCARS 2 messed up with a general lack of polish and quality control
  • Forza 7 messed up with its incentivised gambling mechanics for loot boxes
  • GT Sport messed up with its always-online requirement.
Maybe towards the end of the lifecycles of each game, the picture may become clearer but the way I currently see things right now, all 3 aren't exactly setting my soul on fire.
I'm going to predict that after the next two patches PCARS 2 will separate itself from the others by a clear margin. Visually no, but in overall quality, yes.
 
I'm going to predict that after the next two patches PCARS 2 will separate itself from the others by a clear margin. Visually no, but in overall quality, yes.

I really really hope so. Hope is all we have!

Some of the issues with pc2 seem to be fundamental problems with processing power (ps4) or deep rooted bugs in the physics engine, which will be very problematic to fix.

Given sms are actually not obligated to fix the problem (an apparent loophole in the consumer rights act that no official body seems to give a Damn about) I can see them abandoning the game like they did pc1 before it becomes the game is should be.
 
Define quality.
Quality is forza because they listens to the community. Forza is made for everyone and don't force you to get a wheel. Pcars2 feel and drive with less quality. Quality is without bugs. Yeah pcars got a lot of tracks but bugged they are choppy laggy graphics. This game too generic feeling to be claiming others need to play catch up. Polish up pc2 before start to celebrate because Andy tudy celebrate to early when not even close to winning.
 
I think he was deliberately trying to hype up the game. I will not accept he didn't know of the issues so he was fuelling hype to compensate.
 
Quality is forza because they listens to the community. Forza is made for everyone and don't force you to get a wheel.
Hmm... not sure I agree with that part of your post. WMD community? SMS employees interacting on forums outside of their official forums? I enjoyed pCARS1 with a gamepad (after the first month). pCARS2 development focused on improving gamepad usability out of the box (based on user feedback)... general consensus seems to be they did that.
 
Does anyone think that perhaps SMS would have been better served by delaying their launch by 3-6 months, instead of trying to get out the door before GTS. I realize hindsight is 20/20, but seeing what GTS is, SMS could have taken more time to really play test the game, all while dangling things like Live Track 3.0 in front of the GT audience.

It's almost like GT and PCARS were set for a classic duel, but both shot themselves in the foot while drawing their pistols :lol:
 
Given sms are actually not obligated to fix the problem (an apparent loophole in the consumer rights act that no official body seems to give a Damn about) I can see them abandoning the game like they did pc1 before it becomes the game is should be.

There were like 10 patches for pc1 on ps4 so...
 
And some of the day 1 issues, like land mines, were never resolved, so....

But how can you say they abandoned the game when it became significantly improved over the day one version? No, not every bug was fixed, but a lot was improved.
 
But how can you say they abandoned the game when it became significantly improved over the day one version? No, not every bug was fixed, but a lot was improved.
I get what your saying, I agree they improved a lot...but they missed a lot too.

Kind of sucks that we're repeating the same cycle though.
 
Does anyone think that perhaps SMS would have been better served by delaying their launch by 3-6 months, instead of trying to get out the door before GTS. I realize hindsight is 20/20, but seeing what GTS is, SMS could have taken more time to really play test the game, all while dangling things like Live Track 3.0 in front of the GT audience.

It's almost like GT and PCARS were set for a classic duel, but both shot themselves in the foot while drawing their pistols :lol:

I read a few reviews that said the same thing about Forza 7. So all three games seem to have landed incomplete.

The marketing timing makes a difference. I already spent $90 on PC2 and $99 on Forza 7. GT Sport had to be passed by this time.
 
I read a few reviews that said the same thing about Forza 7. So all three games seem to have landed incomplete.

The marketing timing makes a difference. I already spent $90 on PC2 and $99 on Forza 7. GT Sport had to be passed by this time.
Fair enough, I get where you're coming from. I too don't have endless money to throw at games.

However, just pretend you were sat where you are now, with GTS and/or Forza in your lap...and then getting a chance to sample A well tested Livetrack 3.0 at classic Spa, or Longbeach. You don't think that would persuade you to maybe take GTS and/or Forza back to the store and pick up PCARS 2?

I guess if you're SMS, either route is a gamble of sorts. To me though, the gamble of pushing the game out before GTS without proper testing is the predictable gamble, with rather predictable results. If SMS had real belief that their product was so far ahead of the competition, don't you think they would have had the confidence to release it after the other titles, and use its superiority to lure GT and Forza customers away from their traditional franchises?
 
Does anyone think that perhaps SMS would have been better served by delaying their launch by 3-6 months, instead of trying to get out the door before GTS. I realize hindsight is 20/20, but seeing what GTS is, SMS could have taken more time to really play test the game, all while dangling things like Live Track 3.0 in front of the GT audience.

It's almost like GT and PCARS were set for a classic duel, but both shot themselves in the foot while drawing their pistols :lol:

Yeah, it's always easy to say games would benefit from being delayed but apart from releasing before the competition you also have to think about the financial part.
Delaying the game another 6 months could've easily cost them 2-3 millions. And that's for their comparatively small Dev team.
Imagine how much money the Forza devs would lose through such a delay...
 
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Yeah, it's always easy to say games would benefit from being delayed but apart from releasing before the competition you also have to think about the financial part.
Delaying the game another 6 months could've easily cost them 2-3 millions. And that's for their comparatively small Dev team.
Imagine how much money the Forza devs would lose through such a delay...
That's exactly what cost PDI and Sony, to miss getting my dollar. I'll eventually pick up a PS4 Pro and GTS, but the delay from last year, may have hurt Sony's PS4 sales target.
 
Quality is forza because they listens to the community. Forza is made for everyone and don't force you to get a wheel. Pcars2 feel and drive with less quality. Quality is without bugs. Yeah pcars got a lot of tracks but bugged they are choppy laggy graphics. This game too generic feeling to be claiming others need to play catch up. Polish up pc2 before start to celebrate because Andy tudy celebrate to early when not even close to winning.
This doesn't even make sense. I said define quality, not tell me why Forza is better than Project Cars 2. And you weren't even the guy I replied to!
 
I guess if you're SMS, either route is a gamble of sorts. To me though, the gamble of pushing the game out before GTS without proper testing is the predictable gamble, with rather predictable results. If SMS had real belief that their product was so far ahead of the competition, don't you think they would have had the confidence to release it after the other titles, and use its superiority to lure GT and Forza customers away from their traditional franchises?

You know that the publisher is usually the one who dictates the release, not the developer, right? SMS is not a publisher.
 
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I guess if you're SMS, either route is a gamble of sorts. To me though, the gamble of pushing the game out before GTS without proper testing is the predictable gamble, with rather predictable results. If SMS had real belief that their product was so far ahead of the competition, don't you think they would have had the confidence to release it after the other titles, and use its superiority to lure GT and Forza customers away from their traditional franchises?

You know that the publisher is usually the one who dictates the release, not the developer, right? SMS is not a publisher.

Erm, you've quoted me but it was @twitcher who said that. Please correct it.

Given I've put lengthy complaints into Trading Standards and the US Dept of Consumer Affairs about Bandai Namco Ent, you'd hope I'd know that it is the publisher who set unrealistic deadlines for SMS. In the process I also found out that BN have 4 other complaints filed against them and they have failed to respond to 3 of them...

SMS should've been the publisher. Given the sales of their previous releases and that Ian Bell brags about the supercars he owns, I wonder if they have the capital to publish the game themselves. I think they need to learn from this experience.
 
Hi,
Why can not I complete a simple lap on a simple track (Brands Hatch Indy) without the car spinning? (of the fastest ones, like Porsche GT3 or Nissan GTR). Is it because I drive very badly? But in AC and GTS I get complete laps without problems ...

No, my friends. The answer is another: This game (PC2) has a poor control and physical simulation of cars. Simply ridiculous. I use the T300RS GT Edition, it's not the best but it's a good one. But remember: I'm talking about PS4, not PC.

My verdict: GTS> = AC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PC2.
 

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