Andy Tudor: Gran Turismo and Forza Are Playing Catch Up With Project CARS 2

breyzipp
Just for the record, this is also what Microsoft writes about Forza 7 on their own XBox store:

Experience the thrill of motorsport at the limit with the most comprehensive, beautiful and authentic racing game ever made.
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Well, if the handling is anything like Forza 6 Apex with Premium Edition on my pc. I will not purchase it! I will wait for the reviews.
 
breyzipp
Just for the record, this is also what Microsoft writes about Forza 7 on their own XBox store:

Experience the thrill of motorsport at the limit with the most comprehensive, beautiful and authentic racing game ever made.

reference: http://www.xbox.com/en-US/games/forza-7

Most comprehensive? Purely on garage car count sure, even on licensing real life motorsports I'll give them the benefit of the doubt. But it has half the tracks of PCARS2, no full dynamic time of day and weather on ALL tracks. In the tech department they also run behind with no tripple monitor support, no VR, no UDP, no full controller customization, nothing to compare to livetrack 3.0, a very simplistic handling model, no FOV or seat adjustments, .... the list goes on and on.

Most beautiful? Again, can be debatable. Sure that Nurburgring demo looked great for many, I personally found that sky a bit overdramatic and the cars didn't make any trails in the wet track either (also very visible in the E3 demo). On the other side, PCARS 2 has full day to night transition which is something FM7 doesn't have, tracks really come to life in PCARS2 and that is something that is huge as well when debating which game is most beautiful. Again, they can even have the benefit of the doubt here.

But most authentic??? With GT3, GT2, GTE, Super GT and Super Trofeo all grouped together under the same banner of "modern GT", with a PI system that is completely fictional, without any practice or qualifying races, with a rewind button and an astronaut suite? Yeah right...
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And PC2's site says this: " THE PINNACLE of AUTHENTICITY" Gran Turismo had, "The Real Driving Simulator" for years....

It's marketing talk with a tagline. Getting into a rant over such trivial things.
 
Animera
If you can drive this with a controller, you should be okay with any car.

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Not necessarily the reality, we've already seen a few media outlets not get on with the controller. In Assetto I can control any F1 car with my settings which also work well with any car, except the Mazda MX5 cup car. If I tweak the settings to to suite the Mazda I can drive all the other cars no problem too, except the F1 cars now. I will be very surprised if one setting suits every car.
 
Hence the word 'should' in my post.
I have to change settings on my FFB wheel from car to car, so I expect a controller would be similar.
 
In PCARS1, I stuck to the same settings for the controller but modified the steering ratio in the tuning menu for a few cars. With the specific improvements to oversteer controllability we've been told about, I expect it'll be the same in PCARS2 for me.
 
@lancia delta hf
I don't use or care about controller handling but what you want is an utopia. Pretty much like FFB for wheel users.
Even if there was only one controller/wheel there would be at least one complaining about something.
 
I just got finished watching ISR's E3 footage, mostly because of the Thrustmaster TS-XW wheelbase. What John Sabul had to say about PCARS2 did gain my interests in this title. The tire physics were re-worked and feel more realistic than in PCARS. He also said FM7 feels like FM6. While that's not bad, I just wonder if FM7 will be able to stand up to a more realistic PC2. I'm not going to say the rest of the sims are playing catch up. First PC2 has to get out in front of the other sims.

It doesn't help that FM7 got best racing title at E3, although that's more of a popularity contest than anything.
 
Project Cars 2 wipes the floor with the competition in many categories, but unfortunately we're wiping up the floor from its mess lol.


The game needs lots of fixes but SMS are very good at listening to the fans. However, I personally will not buy PC3 on day one. I have learned to be prudent.
 
I wasn't following Project Cars when it came out because I didn't have a console or PC to play it on so I didn't know of the issues. I bought a PS4 in Spring 2016 and Project Cars that summer. I think by then it had all of the updates and the research into FFB to know what settings to use.

I was so happy with PC1 that I paid attention and really wanted PC2 so I got it right away. Yea it has it's issues but the on track action is second to none. Judging by gameplay videos of GTSport, I'd say PD either isn't aware of how the competition is changing or simply doesn't care and will continue to things the "Gran Turismo" way. I'm not a GT fanboy as I only joined on at GT5 but I can tell where they come from and they're not changing.
 
XXI
Now that some of us have had decent seat time in, was Andy right?

The answer is a huge yes for me.

I have 60 hours in PC2, I'm level 21 in GT Sport, don't own an xbox.

Not trying to reignite an old fire through thread resurrection, just curious if opinions have changed.

Project Cars 2, though bugs exist, is a better drive than GT Sport.

Thoughts?
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For me it all comes down to the fact Project Cars 2 has the GTR :bowdown: GTS doesn't simple

With over 100 hours in pcars 2 90% of that time driving the GTR :embarrassed:

Yes yes i understand pcars 2 has bugs but that hasnt stop me from enjoying the GTR sorry to say :)

Maybe in the future when PD adds the P1 i'll buy GTS since i do like the Scapes location from that photomode and it would be so amazing to photograph the P1 on those Scapes location.
 
Pcars2 for me as well.

I get that the smooth handling and driving of GT Sport is appealing to some but I've never seen a real race car drive that smoothly. It's pretty much a very raw, bumpy experience from the on-board footage I've seen.

I love how focused Pcars2 is in trying to make it a racing simulator and GT Sport's car and track list is an insult to gamers IMO. Don't own a xbox so can't give my 2 cents on Forza.
 
Despite its many flaws and issues PC2 gets my vote as well (actually can't speak as to FM7 as I've not given it a go - but the car list is a very special thing), the physics are great, the AI is not bad at all, Live Track 3.0 is excellent and the atmosphere as a track racing title is superb.
 
I got all 3 games.

* PC2 has incredible dept and is absolutely brilliant but might need a few more updates to iron out most of the bugs. Once they are ironed out though, this is an absolute masterpiece! 9.5/10

* GT:S is surprisingly good, the driving feels more simplistic than PC2 but in a very acceptable and absolutely fun way. Graphics, lighting and level of polish are out of this world. I have been playing this daily since October 18th and I enjoy it a lot! Rally is garbage though and needs fixing. 8.5/10

* FM7 is for me by far the biggest disappointment of the 3. Take out the 4K HDR graphics and all the features to lure in the kids (driver gear, loot crates, friction assist, Fast & Furious / Hoonigan DLC cars) and what is left is FM6 with some FH3 enhancements. This franchise has lost its soul, this has become the bi-annual Call of Duty of the racing games. Still, if you never before played a Forza game it does have a lot of value but then I would recommend getting FH3 instead. 8/10 if you don’t have any Forza game yet. 6/10 if you already have FM6 and/or FH3.
 
I love the arrogance, self-obsession and ignorance of the opening claim. How can you boast about being so great when you can't get it right on release? It's laughable... but not £75's worth of laugh.

They need to go back to a school and join a woodwork class and learn how to make a basic product from start to finish. I'd start them off with something they can manage, like some shelves and that it's only complete when it can hold some books, not LOOKS like it can hold some books. Business school would help too, to learn how to run one, organise one and get their departments and out-sourcing communicating to any level of basic competence. I'd also recommend some I.T. qualifications and learn stuff about Project life-cycles, implementation and testing.

Advertising though, no they have this licked!

But I guess the other titles are playing catch-up. In terms of a global money scam the rest have a lot of catching up to do.
 
mattikake
I love the arrogance, self-obsession and ignorance of the opening claim. How can you boast about being so great when you can't get it right on release? It's laughable... but not £75's worth of laugh.

They need to go back to a school and join a woodwork class and learn how to make a basic product from start to finish. I'd start them off with something they can manage, like some shelves and that it's only complete when it can hold some books, not LOOKS like it can hold some books. Business school would help too, to learn how to run one, organise one and get their departments and out-sourcing communicating to any level of basic competence. I'd also recommend some I.T. qualifications and learn stuff about Project life-cycles, implementation and testing.

Advertising though, no they have this licked!

But I guess the other titles are playing catch-up. In terms of a global money scam the rest have a lot of catching up to do.
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I think laughable is a strong term, and it can't be that bad if you have 50+ races under your belt.

I can't find a better sim than PC2 on console right now, Assetto is my 2nd choice.

I was very rough with my opinion of GT Sports physics, but in looking back what did I really expect? I wanted it to feel like AC or PCars but that's being unrealistic.

At the end of the day I have no right to be critical of any of them as I cannot code, create or fix what I feel is incorrect.
 
BrandonW77
Some guy on the internet said it, and he has a very strong opinion about it, so it must be true! Although his lack of caps lock and the complete absence of the terms "fanboy" and "beta" make me doubt his credibility.
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You win GTPlanet today. We might as well end here.
 
I don't own a Playstation so I can't comment on GTS.

I once thought Forza was probably as good as console sims could get even though it had it's issues with me. The main one was how poor it felt with my Fanatec wheel. Once PC1 came out I didn't play Forza again but maybe 2 or 3 times more and I haven't played it since. I know a lot of people love the tuning aspects and how you can put a big block V8 engine into a Civic but that's not me. I like to concentrate on pure racing cars.

I got very lucky with PC1 with everyone saying how difficult the FFB was to figure out which I also struggled with early on. But I got in touch with a guy on the Project cars forums that came up with a basic formula for FFB that just seemed to work with almost everything. I had to slightly tweak here or there but basically everything I cared about driving, I could and have fun with it.

Same thing is happening with PC2. Since I don't do the online stuff and just do single player things, right now I'm having fun with PC2. Yes it's got issues that I think will be fixed. But as of right now I don't have any plans to purchase Forza 7. About the only thing that might change my mind is if this IMSA deal means that you can have the current DPi's and a full IMSA field, I might go for it. Otherwise, no.
 
Jezza819
I don't own a Playstation so I can't comment on GTS.

I once thought Forza was probably as good as console sims could get even though it had it's issues with me. The main one was how poor it felt with my Fanatec wheel. Once PC1 came out I didn't play Forza again but maybe 2 or 3 times more and I haven't played it since. I know a lot of people love the tuning aspects and how you can put a big block V8 engine into a Civic but that's not me. I like to concentrate on pure racing cars.

I got very lucky with PC1 with everyone saying how difficult the FFB was to figure out which I also struggled with early on. But I got in touch with a guy on the Project cars forums that came up with a basic formula for FFB that just seemed to work with almost everything. I had to slightly tweak here or there but basically everything I cared about driving, I could and have fun with it.

Same thing is happening with PC2. Since I don't do the online stuff and just do single player things, right now I'm having fun with PC2. Yes it's got issues that I think will be fixed. But as of right now I don't have any plans to purchase Forza 7. About the only thing that might change my mind is if this IMSA deal means that you can have the current DPi's and a full IMSA field, I might go for it. Otherwise, no.
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Well said and sums up how I feel.

Most of us have been around sim racing a long time and have been oriented with GT/Forza on console as that's all we really had.

The introduction of PC/AC changes everything for me.
I bought GT Sport, just because it's Gran Turismo and looking for improvement specifically with physics.
I've put 8 hours in now it's right back to PC2, which is probably exactly what SMS were hoping for.

Rightly so as this latest offering of GT feels like I'm driving a very pretty GT6 which is largely unfullfilling.
I can't speak of Forza but imagine it's the same story there.
 
jake2013guy
Citation needed.
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No citation needed. It's deduction based on the available facts.

The basic format of a [global] scam is;
1- globally advertise or offer a product that is "amazing",
2- take non-refundable money based on this hype,
3- provide a product that is nothing of the sort [/no product at all].

PC2 only tenuously fails on point 3/pretty damn close.
 
I'm having a lot more fun with Forza Motorsport 7 than I've ever had with Project CARS 2, even if a significant amount of content was found in the previous game. With that said, PC2 is still a likeable game but I simply can't agree with the "playing catch up" statement.
 
mattikake
No citation needed. It's deduction based on the available facts.

The basic format of a [global] scam is;
1- globally advertise or offer a product that is "amazing",
2- take non-refundable money based on this hype,
3- provide a product that is nothing of the sort [/no product at all].

PC2 only tenuously fails on point 3/pretty damn close.
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Erm. Here's the definition of a scam. "a dishonest scheme; a fraud." I don't see what's dishonest. Anything not in the game, they've come out and said. Go back to watching arcade Youtubers.
 
Even on the "inferior" XBONE vs personal computer, I'm having a blast. Still offline and just scratching the surface with the amount of content. I felt F6 was the perfect game, at thae time, for offline play. PC2 has taken that "replayability" spot.

pC2 makes me feel like I can choose my path in motorsport and actually make a career out of it(via Quick Play). I don't have to venture into another motorsport to complete anything. I can continue to hone my skills as a Touring car driver or GT driver or LMP Ace.

From what I've read in these forums about F7 and GTS, that's the area the other games need to catch up. As an add, I hadn't completed PC1. And that's a smaller game. I definitely don't see me completing PC2 before PC3.
 
In terms of their aspirations as simulators, are Gran Turismo or Forza even trying to catch up? Turn 10 has settled into its niche and has no apparent intention of messing with the success of Forza's formula, while PD still appears to be floundering listlessly, floating on the reputation of their brand and an admirably thick coat of polish on whatever they can manage to get done.

One could compare GTS and PCARS2 as rivals in organized multiplayer racing, or surmise that T10 has been working on features in response to SMS and PCARS (eg. weather), but the GT/Forza rivalry used to be defined by the ambition to be "The Real Driving Simulator". Now they're all different games serving different interests, which is fine, but of the three, only PCARS2 is really trying to be the most realistic it can be.

That's what I'm looking for in a sim, and shockingly, a developer delivered on their physics promises for once! :boggled: Some of the cars and/or tire models still need work, but I could enjoy the GT86 by itself as much as @Chikane has been driving the P1 GTR! :D With such a staggering number of possible track and LiveTrack 3.0 configurations, every good car has so much to offer.
 

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