Anniversary Of 9/11

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" I need an additional document to get my passport or other identification? I need to go home and get it and come back? Not convenient, but no problem."

- Ben Franklin XXI

Don't even begin to compare Revolitionary desire to escape British suppression to post 9/11 "intrusions." It's not even apples to oranges... That's apples to diapers, with one being "full of it."

I can't seem to find that quote by this Ben Franklin XXI gent.

There are many parallels from a 9/11 era to the Revolutionary War, you just need to flip the sides around. Britain, like the US is now, was the biggest superpower on the planet, and a group of extremists, in British terms at least, committed acts of terror against British citizens within their own country in the name of an ideal. It's all a matter of perspective. Also before you try to make some absurd connection, no, I don't believe what happened on September 11th was justified.

Giving up freedoms and allowing our own government to overstep Constitutional rights in the name of "supposed" safety is not what any of our Founding Father's would have wanted for this country. By doing so we've let the terrorist win, yes they took the lives of 3,000 people, but in the big picture that's not even close to the destruction they caused. Our economy is in shambles, we are fighting wars with no purpose or funding which has had many countless soldiers die for no reason, Arabic looking people are subjected to unjustified hate, I can't get on an airplane without being groped, and my every move is tracked and recorded.
 
People, the security thing is such a pain-in-the-trivial matter that pales to in comparison to most anything else we had to deal with on 9/11...Oh no, I can't bring water and pocketknives! We actually had additional screening, x-ray machines, and...get this...long lines well before the foundation of the TSA.

Seriously, most of the complaining about the TSA is by people who fly twice a year, or forgot to take all their crap out of their pockets.
 
^that. And this thread is not the place to rant about the TSA. Start another thread about it if you want.
 
Seriously, most of the complaining about the TSA is by people who fly twice a year, or forgot to take all their crap out of their pockets.

It's clearly a bigger problem than just the TSA, which is relatively minor in comparison to the other things the American public has to put up with in a post-9/11 world.

^that. And this thread is not the place to rant about the TSA. Start another thread about it if you want.

It is the thread to talk about 9/11 though and typically on anniversaries we look back to how we've progressed. And this is the opinion forum.
 
Some of you may not like Alan Jackson or the genre of country music, but this song just hits home. It is worth a listen.

I must have heard this song 20 times today.



9/11 .... WE WILL NEVER FORGET !
 


I hate conspiracy theories. The documentary Loose Change: An American Coup has some rough edges but it does present some pretty glaring holes in the official story. It's worth watching because there's a lot of information and interpretations in there that you won't find on the news, and some observations that were on the news that we've forgotten about. A lot of the things presented in that short Youtube video were sourced from the Loose Change documentary. The official documentary in on Netflix, not Youtube.
 
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Funny, every time I divide 9 by 11, I get a rational number, not some imaginary ********.
 
What's so irrational about the roof of a building falling at the rate of gravity which is impossible unless there's nothing underneath it?
 
There are many parallels from a 9/11 era to the Revolutionary War, you just need to flip the sides around. Britain, like the US is now, was the biggest superpower on the planet, and a group of extremists, in British terms at least, committed acts of terror against British citizens within their own country in the name of an ideal. It's all a matter of perspective. Also before you try to make some absurd connection, no, I don't believe what happened on September 11th was justified.


No need for me to make an absurd connection. You've already done that.



Giving up freedoms and allowing our own government to overstep Constitutional rights in the name of "supposed" safety is not what any of our Founding Father's would have wanted for this country. By doing so we've let the terrorist win, yes they took the lives of 3,000 people, but in the big picture that's not even close to the destruction they caused. Our economy is in shambles, we are fighting wars with no purpose or funding which has had many countless soldiers die for no reason, Arabic looking people are subjected to unjustified hate, I can't get on an airplane without being groped, and my every move is tracked and recorded.

Utterly laughable.

You just compared an economy, intermittent racism, and pat downs at the airport to the DEATH of 3,000 people and the subsequent pain of their friends and families... Even stating the first group is more destructive? Than death? I wonder if children, now in their teens, would be willing to pay $3 for a dozen eggs instead of $2, if they could go to the store with BOTH parents instead of just one.

As I've said before - pat me down ALL YOU WANT Security folks. Pat us all down over and over and over. If you catch just ONE bad guy, all 1,000,000 pat downs become justified. Those that don't like it can take the damn bus. And airport security HAVE caught people trying to board with weapons far worse than a boxknife.

If you feel your Constitutional rights are being violated wrongly, do something about it, deal with it, or move. You are in control if you want to be.
 
My parents wedding anniversary just so happens to be today as well.
 
As for new "intrusions" into my rights and life? I don't care if they want to search me 5 times at the airport, establish regulations for purchasing products, increase paperwork required for anything from the License Branch, to Travel, to buying a box of Twinkies. I'm more than wiling to do that and more. I have nothing to hide, ask away and do what you have to do to keep us all a little safer... Or a LOT safer. Those who resist, claiming "infringement" need to check themselves - are you really Americans?
The goal of terrorism is to cause terror which creates change through fear-based acts. Your talk is tough, but your actions, or the actions you support, are based in fear. The terrorists have won this battle. The only way we could have won this was to not have tossed the Constitution aside, but rather stood tall and said "This changes nothing. We will maintain our freedoms and way of life as the defenders of freedom." Instead, while we sent the troops to hunt them down over seas we took a red pen, with a shaky hand, to the Constitution at home and with every mark said, "Never again, dear God no, never again."

Do you think Washinton, Jefferson, Lincoln, etc would have opposed, say, strict harbor regulations if a foreign land had killed people by sea in an equally horrific event during their time?
This isn't Lincoln, but the rest wrote a Constitution to prevent our government from doing that sort of thing, and the things we are doing now, to their own citizens, signed it, and then later added a list of ten guarantees against it. And we have symbolically destroyed that document these last 11 years.

Talk about TSA all you want, but please address Americans (Bradley Manning) held for over a year without charges and forced to endure what has since been determined to be equal to torture. Address the president being allowed to assassinate American citizens with no charges and no warrants. Address that you will soon have thousands of drones patrolling over your house, and who knows what the operator, hundreds of miles away, may see in your daughter's bedroom window.

Airport security has always been a pain, but the fact that 9/11 means my having a pacemaker means instead of being wanded as an alternative to the, dangerous to me, metal detector I must go through a full body pat down, is unacceptable. I didn't change in any way to make me suspect. This country just became full of fear.

The documentary Loose Change:
Is that the same one that tries linking it back to an old Christian conspiracy by showing that the group behind it use the sun as their symbol and show the son/sun correlation, forgetting that the language spoken back then has no similarities between the two words?

Anyway, it is weak. I don't doubt security agencies were covering their butts by hiding stuff, but they weren't hiding a secret behind who did it.
 
No need for me to make an absurd connection. You've already done that.

Utterly laughable.

Calm down mate, there's no need for that.

You just compared an economy, intermittent racism, and pat downs at the airport to the DEATH of 3,000 people and the subsequent pain of their friends and families... Even stating the first group is more destructive? Than death? I wonder if children, now in their teens, would be willing to pay $3 for a dozen eggs instead of $2, if they could go to the store with BOTH parents instead of just one.

Millions of people's lives have been ruined due to the economic collapse and several more have have been shaken. Approx. 6,500 service men and women have died in combat as a result of two pointless wars, tens of thousands or more have been injured, and this isn't even counting the civilian casualties of Iraqi and Afghan citizens. There has been death due to the increased racism that spawned from 9/11, the most recent being the Sikh temple that was attacked. Yes, the death of 3,000 people on 9/11 was tragic, but it's only a small part of large scale destruction, which is my point.

The government spying and the TSA groping probably hasn't resulted in death, but it has still killed some of our rights. Yes, the loss of human life is greater than this, I'm not denying that.

And airport security HAVE caught people trying to board with weapons far worse than a boxknife.

The security measures still haven't stopped all attacks or managed to stop everyone from attempting to carry it out, remember the Xmas day underwear bomber? Or the 7/7 attacks that caused devastation in London? There are several incidents that happen worldwide every year, and America isn't immune to those attacks either.
 
Airport security is a big smoke and mirrors show. The pat downs are symbolic, they only catch the 1 in a million of a 1 in a million; a terrorist who is also a complete idiot. They don't pat down your crotch or chest if you're a woman, anyone care to wager a guess as to where terrorists keep weapons? Would any terrorist in his right mind strap a weapon to his thigh? It only catches the dumbest criminals.

It wouldn't be all bad if we truly did have a choice. It's not as simple as "if you don't like it don't fly". The TSA and CATSA (Canadian equivalent) are unelected officials who just decide what the laws are. That's the issue. If a private airline told me I had to undergo that kind of security to get on their flights, I'd choose another airline. The way things are right now, I can't.

As an aside, I think Joey and Keef are spot on with what 9/11 led to and how sad it is. And how the US posturing itself as the powerful mediators of the world perhaps led to 9/11. Nothing can take away the tragedy it was, but to me what makes 9/11 even worse, is the way we've reacted to it. Not just in the US, but all over the world, we're living in a constant state of fear, and the threat of another 9/11 causes people to vote in and accept legislation that chips away at their rights (see: PATRIOT Act, NDAA).
 
Some of you may not like Alan Jackson or the genre of country music, but this song just hits home. It is worth a listen.

I must have heard this song 20 times today.


9/11 .... WE WILL NEVER FORGET !

South Park actually made fun of that guy when the gang built a stairway to heaven to see Kenny again.
 
People, the security thing is such a pain-in-the-trivial matter that pales to in comparison to most anything else we had to deal with on 9/11...Oh no, I can't bring water and pocketknives! We actually had additional screening, x-ray machines, and...get this...long lines well before the foundation of the TSA.

Seriously, most of the complaining about the TSA is by people who fly twice a year, or forgot to take all their crap out of their pockets.
Can. Not. Agree. More.

I got through the check point at DFW & Orlando in 5 minutes (I spent more time actually waiting in the line than the actual check through), as did the other 3+ dozen people in front of/behind me. It is not some time-consuming, privacy-invading outrage the media makes it out to be.


I hate conspiracy theories. The documentary Loose Change: An American Coup has some rough edges but it does present some pretty glaring holes in the official story. It's worth watching because there's a lot of information and interpretations in there that you won't find on the news, and some observations that were on the news that we've forgotten about. A lot of the things presented in that short Youtube video were sourced from the Loose Change documentary. The official documentary in on Netflix, not Youtube.

Biggest piece of crock & the first thing all 9/11 conspiracy nut jobs bring out the crack of their ass to debate the attacks.
 
It is not some time-consuming, privacy-invading outrage the media makes it out to be.

I'm not so sure about that, the last time I flew into Baltimore my bag, with all my work clothes in, HIPAA protected information and other personal affects in it, was tore apart at the security checkpoint because for whatever reason the TSA agent thought because my bag had a little sand on it, it must have contained explosives or something.

No only did they wrinkle all of my work stuff by cramming it back into my bag, they let protected documents just lay out in the open despite me taking extra steps to make sure they wouldn't be disturbed.
 
What I hate are the conspiracies. I was on YouTube today and people in the comments were saying that everything was planned or it was a bomb that went off. If there was a bomb, I'm pretty sure it can't clear 4 stories or so and it can't be planned since Congress or whatever has to agree with it. Some people just lack common sense
Anyways condolences to the families
 
Joey D
I'm not so sure about that, the last time I flew into Baltimore my bag, with all my work clothes in, HIPAA protected information and other personal affects in it, was tore apart at the security checkpoint because for whatever reason the TSA agent thought because my bag had a little sand on it, it must have contained explosives or something.

No only did they wrinkle all of my work stuff by cramming it back into my bag, they let protected documents just lay out in the open despite me taking extra steps to make sure they wouldn't be disturbed.

Sometimes I just really wish they would listen to you or at least let you explain what they're doing. They could at least bring you aside into a room
 
@Mclaren: DFW has the benefit of being a newer airport. Each terminal gets their own TSA area right? If I remember correctly
 
Is that the same one that tries linking it back to an old Christian conspiracy...
Apparently not because I have no idea what you're talking about. Loose Change is about holes in stories, immense oversights, destruction of evidence, and denial of investigative opportunities.

Is that the same one that tries linking it back to an old Christian conspiracy...

Biggest piece of crock & the first thing all 9/11 conspiracy nut jobs bring out the crack of their ass to debate the attacks.
Italian Supreme Court head calls for international 9/11 inquiry. I'm curious if this story will get any traction in the next few days.
 
Does it matter? Ya'll still think these people are crazy cooks eleven years later. Nobody will be satisfied until 20 years from now when the taboo has finally worn off and real scientists begin studying it again, like JFK. Of course, by then there won't be any evidence to study because all the details will have had 30 years to be destroyed, the most important of which, the actually rubble, was shipped off immediately against the wishes of industry professionals, scientists, and of course the actual family members who wanted answers.

When a plane crashes the NTSB doesn't simply throw it away and assume it was terrorists. Apparently the NYC street sweepers didn't get the message.
 
Calm down mate, there's no need for that.



Millions of people's lives have been ruined due to the economic collapse and several more have have been shaken.

I'm completely calm. You've misinterpreted again, but thanks for the concern I guess. Millions of lives ruined? They are all leaving, because life is so bad here? Uhhhh, no. They are staying, generally speaking.
 
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"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Ben Franklin

" I need an additional document to get my passport or other identification? I need to go home and get it and come back? Not convenient, but no problem."
- Ben Franklin XXI

"Feel Free to scan me with any wand you want when I check in at the airport. I'll gladly discard my half drank bottled water before boarding even though it cost $3 and I'm thirsty. I lose no liberty doing so"
-His intelligent wife

Joey's quote is genuine. However unless you can provide a citation for yours, you're just making things up and passing them off as "facts". Should that be the case I would think it calls for moderator attention.

Fabricating things in a discussion like this weakens your whole argument. You're welcome to your opinions. But just making stuff up to support it makes me think your opinions aren't worth serious consideration.
 
Yeah, glad to see we're remembering the lives of the thousands of innocent people that were murdered and the heros that lost their lives trying to save them, by bickering and arguing. Seriously? I know it's the 12th now, but don't you think the 11th should be about peaceful and respectful rememberence? You have the other 364 days of the year to argue about airports and loonies.
 
BJBEOSmitty
I'm completely calm. You've misinterpreted again, but thanks for the concern I guess. Millions of lives ruined? They are all leaving, because life is so bad here? Uhhhh, no. They are staying, generally speaking.

Apologies, if I misinterpreted your intentions.

Leaving the country isn't really an option. When people say if you don't like it here you should move they don't take into account it's very difficult to move to another country. Even to move to Canada takes quite a bit of work, to do it legally at least.

I'm not saying life is bad in America either, I'm saying the government has overstepped its boundaries on many things and that by doing so we let the terrorist win, or at least accomplish their mission. America is also prolonging the terrorists' work by continuing to make the public fearful and live in a sense of, well, terror.

MatskiMonk
Yeah, glad to see we're remembering the lives of the thousands of innocent people that were murdered and the heros that lost their lives trying to save them, by bickering and arguing. Seriously? I know it's the 12th now, but don't you think the 11th should be about peaceful and respectful rememberence? You have the other 364 days of the year to argue about airports and loonies.

It's the opinion forum and the subject is 9/11. Nothing has been off topic and is all relevant to the anniversary of the attack.
 
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Does it matter? Ya'll still think these people are crazy cooks eleven years later. Nobody will be satisfied until 20 years from now when the taboo has finally worn off and real scientists begin studying it again, like JFK. Of course, by then there won't be any evidence to study because all the details will have had 30 years to be destroyed, the most important of which, the actually rubble, was shipped off immediately against the wishes of industry professionals, scientists, and of course the actual family members who wanted answers.

When a plane crashes the NTSB doesn't simply throw it away and assume it was terrorists. Apparently the NYC street sweepers didn't get the message.
So, in a nutshell then, you're another person who believes 9/11 was an inside job judging by your post. Tell me, do you believe a rocket is also what hit the Pentagon?

All the information you're looking for is out there, you just have to go searching for it. There are numerous articles done by people who do prove how the buildings collapsed, as well as insider pictures. If I could remember the forum & date when I found a huge collage of all this information/pictures, I would happily post it here without getting into the beaten horse debate itself.
 
ZohsixGT5
It may not be off topic, but it's certainly disrespectful IMO.

How so? Yes, people lost their lives but that doesn't mean we should completely ignore the larger picture of the repercussions that happened because of the attack.

If this thread was in, say the Rumble Strip, then yes I could see it being no place for a broader discussion. Quite a bit happened after the events of 9/11 and I think it's important to look at what's happened since then. The anniversary is an opportunity to not only remember those who lost their lives, but also reflect on how we are continuing to be affected.
 
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