Anyone else dissapointed in Shift 2?

[Destinkeys]

Get a dictionary, tinram.

Disappointment comes from the FULFILLING of a lack of hope and expectation.

Not the ANTICIPATION of that hope and expectation being unfulfilled.

That is 'dread' or having 'forebodings', 'cold feet' etc..

You can't actually be 'disappointed' until something actually happens.

Well, OK, in your case, you can. But depression can be treated, these days...

 

[tribolik]

Doh, funny. And yet you are here, in a joke thread defending a game like a fanboy. Trying to correct opinions opposed to yours.

So did you check the video, do you agree with what that guy said?

Here we go again, disappointed - a failure of expectation, i expected something that is not likely to be fulfilled.

Im not defending the game like a fanboy (no need to insult me Im not insulting you am I? I was one of the first people here to say that if they sort the bad physics, FFB and crappy career mode that they would have a winner and that doenst sound like fanboy talk to me - maybe just as much as you sound like a troll)... it would be a bit stupid on my behalf because I havent tryed it yet.
What Im trying to say is that Shift 1 allready did a lot of things better than most racing games (for the console) out there and this one is looking even better... so why burst our bubbles and ruin our expectations without backing your bashing with facts?

 

[tinram]

Actually the fanboy comment was for destin, but since you were tag-teaming you got a hit.

Let's agree that we use different dictionaries, there's tons online no need to get one.

Depression can be cured, thanks. Do not worry A.D.D. can be cured as well ... i think.

 

[Luminis]

Trying to correct opinions opposed to yours.

Well, if an opinion is based on 'facts' that are nothing more than impressions with no backup or are just an assumption, than that's something I'd like to 'correct'.

If I talked about how good the new Porsche 991's suspension setup is when it's obvious I can't have any experience with it, wouldn't that be more than enough reason to call me out on it?

 

[tribolik]

Actually the fanboy comment was for destin, but since you were tag-teaming you got a hit.

Let's agree that we use different dictionaries, there's tons online no need to get one.

Depression can be cured, thanks. Do not worry A.D.D. can be cured as well ... i think.

You obviously didnt read all is first impressions about the game and the online mode of Shift 1 other wise you wouldnt be calling him a fanboy either...

I just think it would be a all lot better for all of us if we could relly on each other opinions about the game but based on facts
And right now the only fact that makes me dissagree with you is the fact that the game wasnt even released yet...

 

[tinram]

Well, if an opinion is based on 'facts' that are nothing more than impressions with no backup or are just an assumption, than that's something I'd like to 'correct'.

If I talked about how good the new Porsche 991's suspension setup is when it's obvious I can't have any experience with it, wouldn't that be more than enough reason to call me out on it?

Another one to tag team ... geeezzz. Did you see what i posted that started this? ... Check this post, now tell me if i got the facts wrong.


https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=190971&page=7#post5041864

 

[Luminis]

Another one to tag team ... geeezzz. Did you see what i posted that started this? ... Check this post, now tell me if i got the facts wrong.

And you somehow got "our only means to achieve any form of realism in S2U is the helmet cam" from that? When they mentioned numerous times that they improved the physics?
Is that what you call a 'fact'? In that case, I wouldn't say you've got your facts wrong, I'd say you've got no facts at all

 

[tinram]

You obviously didnt read all is first impressions about the game and the online mode of Shift 1 other wise you wouldnt be calling him a fanboy either...

I just think it would be a all lot better for all of us if we could relly on each other opinions about the game but based on facts
And right now the only fact that makes me dissagree with you is the fact that the game wasnt even released yet...

What wrong facts did i state?

And you somehow got "our only means to achieve any form of realism in S2U is the helmet cam" from that? When they mentioned numerous times that they improved the physics?
Is that what you call a 'fact'? In that case, I wouldn't say you've got your facts wrong, I'd say you've got no facts at all

All i stated here's what they said and here's what i wanted to hear them say, that's it. I did not even say that "our only means....".

yes

Shame on me for having to respond to folks that has not read the series of posts.

 

[Luminis]

All i stated here's what they said and here's what i wanted to hear them say, that's it. I did not even say that "our only means....".

So you're disappointed about the game because the developer doesn't tell you what you wanted to hear, even though it says exactly nothing about the actual game?

Maybe you should create an "Anyone else dissapointed with SMS' wording?" thread

 

[tinram]

 

[Spagetti69]

Woah, ducks tables and chairs flying overhead.

 

[tribolik]

What wrong facts did i state?

About the game itself? neither wrong or right... you stated your opinion but no facts to back it up...

But your right about one thing... this is the apropriate thread for that sort of thing... thats why it was created in the first place - to keep the pre release complains and trolls away from the other Shift 2 related threads.

 

[FuriousDemon]

Just to keep this thread "on track" I'll post a few disappointments I have based on the facts (videos and screenshots) that we have so far. Actually, there are two (or one, depending how you look at it). The lighting system in game is pretty bad. I thought they'd improve it since Shift1, but graphically the game looks almost the same (although night racing looks superb). Gives the in-game vehicles sort of cartoonish look. Doesn't seem right for a game that strives for realism. Also, as has been mentioned before, tracks suffer from this too. They dont look good at all. I'm glad there is a big variety of tracks in the game but if they are done poorly I'd rather have less tracks but have them done properly.

Before people start saying that graphics are superb and everything is dandy, I'm just stating my opinion based on what I've seen so far and playing Shift1. The best thing about Shift is it's cabin view, everything else graphically is getting a bit outdated, but I guess if your common denominator is a console system you have to come up with some sort of a compromise. What's surprising is the fact that they can only achieve 30fps instead of 60fps with this sort of graphics.

 

[tinram]

First my facts were wrong, now my opinion is not based on facts. I just quoted an interview and said i wanted to hear something else.

It's like talking to hungry cats in here, Dios mabalos sa indo gabos.

 

[Scaff]

Lets stop with the fan-boy comments and petty digs shall we guys.

Discuss this in a resonable manner and the thread stays open, keep having a pop at each other and its infraction time and a locked thread.

Your call - but I know which route I would advise you take.


Scaff

 

[HKS racer]

Come on people take it easy xD 👍
edit: posted before to recon mod's comment, but the video is quite funny so I'm considering to keep it ^^

 

[tinram]

Lets stop with the fan-boy comments and petty digs shall we guys.

Discuss this in a resonable manner and the thread stays open, keep having a pop at each other and its infraction time and a locked thread.

Your call - but I know which route I would advise you take.


Scaff

Yep, my fault. I'm going to the corner to chill.

 

[tribolik]

First my facts were wrong, now my opinion is not based on facts. I just quoted an interview and said i wanted to hear something else.

It's like talking to hungry cats in here, Dios mabalos sa indo gabos.

For those that like it I think that lady Gaga released an album or something like that if you dont want to hear that too well theres always google search

the more I read your posts the more I think that you've been Bitten By A Red Ant

EDIT: upps sorry just kidding not aware that the mods werent happy with the thread... if you wish you can delete this post....

 

[Scaff]

EDIT: upps sorry just kidding not aware that the mods werent happy with the thread... if you wish you can delete this post....

No problem with the thread, just some of the posts contained within it and the inability of some members to argue a point without attacking each other.

As long as it stays civil we have no issue with the thread at all.

On a personal note I'm looking forward Shift 2, but with concerns and reservations from the first very much in place, so I think this is a valid topic for discussion (regardless of the fact the game is not yet out - speculation is part of discussion).


Scaff

 

[tribolik]

No problem with the thread, just some of the posts contained within it and the inability of some members to argue a point without attacking each other.

As long as it stays civil we have no issue with the thread at all.

On a personal note I'm looking forward Shift 2, but with concerns and reservations from the first very much in place, so I think this is a valid topic for discussion (regardless of the fact the game is not yet out - speculation is part of discussion).


Scaff

Im looking foward to this too and I also have concerns and reservations regarding the physics, Force feedback, career mode, screen tearing and drop of frame rates among others... and Im keeping an eye on this thread to see if anyone has tryed the game and can shed some light on this subjects..

But I would really like people to be fair and clear when they state their dissapointement so that I and others can be properly enlightened about the games flaws and what other stuff to expect...

 

[tinram]

I thought i was being clear and fair

http://www.gamespot.com/shows/today-on-the-spot/?event=today_on_the_spot20110312

10:40, Talking about helmet CAM ... "That's what we are falling back when we call this the most realistic racing experience there is ... that's what we are talking about."

Not really what i wanted to hear, I wanted them to say "the improved physics creates the most realistic experience ...."

To clarify ... based on that this specific interview i thought it would have been better if the interviewee said something else about the touted "the most realistic racing experience" statement, that would have alleviated some of my concerns and reservations. Let me know what is not clear so i can "enlighten" ...

 

[tribolik]

They allready stated in previous interviews that they have improved the physics (in their words - the most advanced physics in any racing game to date) and rewrote the entire force feedback code - Now what would be clear and fair is for someone to try the game and figure out just how much of that improvement is really true or just marketing Bu&%$t

And that interview is posted somewhere on another thread in this forum. So until a few people that have tryed the game prove them wrong I will still be looking foward to this one. I might add that Im not the smartest person, I thought that when I was buying GT5 I was getting the ultimate racing game experience...

Is that clear enough for you too?

 

[Destinkeys]

I'll give tinram a rest for a while. If he wants to base his conjecture ONLY on interviews that bolster his position and ignore those (the majority) that don't, that's fine with me.

I'll discuss the lighting comment a bit, from actual experience. I go to races. Mostly ALMS, here in the US Southeast. One thing that is common, is a LOT of dust in the air. It DOES tend to give a warm hazy aspect to long shots that is often missing on other titles (especially GT5). GT5 always looks like a perfect California day, not a trace of haze, shimmer or air pollutants in the air, and humidity very low. "I can see for miles and miles and miles and miles" (to quote The Who)

I'm afraid, for me, it tends to make things a little UN-real, not the other way around. Racing IS dirty, dangerous and not very clean! I have come back from watching 12 hr. races pretty much covered in dust! And I wasn't even IN the car!

 

[boxox]

The lighting system in game is pretty bad. I thought they'd improve it since Shift1, but graphically the game looks almost the same (although night racing looks superb). Gives the in-game vehicles sort of cartoonish look.

The lighting engine is all new (and part of that is the ability to run dozens and dozens of distinct, properly culled lights at night). They've switched to deferred rendering and use a technique called image based lighting to light the cars. There's a good explanation on it from digitalfoundry's interview with criterion (who used it in NFS HP) here:

Digital Foundry: What are the principles? How is it applied in Need for Speed?

Alex Fry: Image-based lighting basically means that the cars are lit by the image of the environment around them. So if you put that car anywhere in the world, it will be lit correctly. You haven't got to fake it, you haven't got to bake it. The cars are totally real-time image-based lit. That's one of the reasons they look good.

When you drive into a tunnel we haven't got to place any probes to capture some light here, capture some light there, it's totally, totally dynamic. So you're driving into a tunnel and you start to see the car get dark at the front while remaining bright at the back. You drive into the tunnel and the light will roll over, and then you go underneath some spotlights in the tunnel and you'll see these beautiful specular soft lights roll over the car.

You'll get to the open side and one side of the car will start to roll into the light and you'll see all these different frequencies like the really sharp reflection of the lacquer over the top to this sort of blurred diffuse underlying paint beneath it and you'll see all of these different layers building themselves up.

It's all totally real-time and it's one of the things we're most pleased about with this game: the cars had to look amazing at all times of the day, anywhere in that world. Image-based lighting then... it means that the cars light themselves based on the image around them.

Also - not trying to twist the knife here, but if you head on over to df's GT5 tech analysis, we find...

There's little you can fault with the overall presentation of the visuals: there are some absurdly high-quality models for each of the premium-level cars (reputedly allocated a budget of 100,000 polygons for the highest LOD models on the premium cars) and while lighting is basic compared to some of the techniques seen in other racers - Need for Speed: Hot Pursuit's environmentally sampled lighting model is pretty awesome - Polyphony's pristine specular sheen on the cars has an aura of beauty about it, a sense that you're being immersed in a CG-quality world.

Doesn't seem right for a game that strives for realism. Also, as has been mentioned before, tracks suffer from this too. They dont look good at all. I'm glad there is a big variety of tracks in the game but if they are done poorly I'd rather have less tracks but have them done properly.

Before people start saying that graphics are superb and everything is dandy, I'm just stating my opinion based on what I've seen so far and playing Shift1. The best thing about Shift is it's cabin view, everything else graphically is getting a bit outdated, but I guess if your common denominator is a console system you have to come up with some sort of a compromise. What's surprising is the fact that they can only achieve 30fps instead of 60fps with this sort of graphics.

That's ok, but looking at the low res track textures, lack of any layering, severe lodding, the 2d crowds, the motionless non-SpeedTree'd one-size-fits-all trees, etc, I don't have any difficulty working out what they cut to get (some) nice highpoly car models working in GT5.

 

[Destinkeys]

I like that 'CG' comment... Yep. GT looks like an Avatar day. Shift looks like a Track Day!

 

[Luminis]

Dunno about the lighting system. Screenshots are nice and all and Youtube video are, too, but that's something I'll be judging once I see it on a decent TV screen (or at least in an HD video).
From what we've seen so far, I can understand being disappointed with the lighting engine, because at least some of the screenshots do look pretty mediocre, in my opinion.

 

[HKS racer]

Even GT5 got some graphic problems: shadows, disgusting shadows, I hate them really. So who care about lighting in Shift 2, is not that important, SMS just need to prevent frame rate drops and graphic will be ok.

 

[DrJustice]

... SMS just need to prevent frame rate drops and graphic will be ok.

That, and V-sync 👍

DJ
--

 

[Destinkeys]

GT5 has some very serious graphic issues. I am tired of road textures that strobe in front of me, something that Shift never did, for one... AND, GT5's framerate varies radically depending on what is going on. That 60fps figure is the very marketing bull that you are accusing S2U of. Compare GT5p with GT5, and it's easy to see that the dynamic lighting added a load to the PS3 it just wasn't capable of handling well.

I'll take a solid smooth 30fps over strobed textures any day.

 

[tribolik]

GT5 has some very serious graphic issues. I am tired of road textures that strobe in front of me, something that Shift never did, for one... AND, GT5's framerate varies radically depending on what is going on. That 60fps figure is the very marketing bull that you are accusing S2U of. Compare GT5p with GT5, and it's easy to see that the dynamic lighting added a load to the PS3 it just wasn't capable of handling well.

I'll take a solid smooth 30fps over strobed textures any day.

And poping objects and trees...