Anyone else dissapointed in Shift 2?

[DonZonda]

I got to admit that Shift seems to have way better tarmac and enviroment textures.
GT5 has alot of very blury ones. Especially tarmac for example on Tsukuba. And just flat blury green gras textures , Except for some tracks such as Suzuka , Fuji , Eiger.
And the strobed textures especially on Suzuka get on my nervs when you go really fast it seems like the ground isn't moving anymore due the lack of motion blur.
Well so far Shift looks promising. Only disappointment I have so far the lack of LeMans .

 

[Destinkeys]

I don't care about trees unless I'm about to hit them!

I'll take all kinds of graphic issues as long as they don't affect what I'm looking at.... The road, and the other cars. I'm here to RACE, not drive around and admire the scenery!

 

[paulpg87]

I don't care about trees unless I'm about to hit them!

I'll take all kinds of graphic issues as long as they don't affect what I'm looking at.... The road, and the other cars. I'm here to RACE, not drive around and admire the scenery!

so this is way shift is better bvecause the only thing you can do in gt5 is look at the scenery cause there is no racing involved.

 

[HKS racer]

I'm really hating those damn pixeled shadows in GT5. Yesterday after a race with my Acura RM I wanted to watch the replay at Daytona Road but OMG it was disgusting, it's a nosense have those kind of Comodore pixels in Gran Turismo, I've tried to not think about it until yesterday but in the end the replay mode is ruined. Seems Shift 2 luckly, will be a "normal" game from this point of view, reasonable shadows are enough, who really want dyinamic shadows when dynamic shadows = BS pixels? Only Poliphony, and it's crazy, no sense, they are not ok. So trees detail in Shift 2? Who really care? Is better not having so much detailed trees than the worst shadows of all time. At least I'm playing GTR2 at the moment, to forget my shadow delusion

 

[Luminis]

Well, yeah, the shadows are the biggest issue with GT5's graphics, especially the self shadowing of the cars looks incredibly weird at times. I wouldn't really mind the shadows by themselves, but that 'small' of an issue can really have a lot of impact on the overall visual experience. But I'd still like dynamic shadowing for Shift 2, no questions asked.

In my opinion, it's all a trade off. Nobody's going to pull of dynamic lighting, dynamic shadows, proper physics, damage model, highly detailed car models and V-Sync at 60FPS on the current consoles, that's for sure.

Personally, I'm going to decide whether SMS did the better trade off with the 30FPS and all when I'm actually playing the game. I'm sure they've got some 'small' visual problems with Shift 2 as well (the aforementioned 30FPS, for starters), but we'll see how much of an impact theirs will make.

 

[FuriousDemon]

Take a look at these three shots. You can see what I was talking about. The shift pic is from Shift2's official website. If this is a screenshot of how the cars look in Shift1, then it's fine, but if that's how it going to look in the final version, then it's a bit disappointing. It seems like the cars are made out of paper. Maybe lighting wasnt the right word, but it just does not look right. What do you think, guys?

Real McLaren F1:
http://www.dragtimes.com/images/10937972851994-mcLaren-f1.jpg

GT5 McLaren F1:
http://i766.photobucket.com/albums/xx304/robbzy88/HighSpeedRing.jpg

S2U McLaren F1:
http://cdn.prod.needforspeed.com/si...ift2_unleashed_mclaren_f1_dusk.jpg?1297118673

 

[Speedster502]

Take a look at these three shots. You can see what I was talking about. The shift pic is from Shift2's official website. If this is a screenshot of how the cars look in Shift1, then it's fine, but if that's how it going to look in the final version, then it's a bit disappointing. It seems like the cars are made out of paper. Maybe lighting wasnt the right word, but it just does not look right. What do you think, guys?

I'm pretty certain it's the type of paint used on that car, it has quite a 'matt' look about it. Other screen shots I've seen seem to have a more metallic, and less flat colour look.

 

[UK-Gamer]

Take a look at these three shots. You can see what I was talking about. The shift pic is from Shift2's official website. If this is a screenshot of how the cars look in Shift1, then it's fine, but if that's how it going to look in the final version, then it's a bit disappointing. It seems like the cars are made out of paper. Maybe lighting wasnt the right word, but it just does not look right. What do you think, guys?

Real McLaren F1:
http://www.dragtimes.com/images/10937972851994-mcLaren-f1.jpg

GT5 McLaren F1:
http://i766.photobucket.com/albums/xx304/robbzy88/HighSpeedRing.jpg

S2U McLaren F1:
http://cdn.prod.needforspeed.com/si...ift2_unleashed_mclaren_f1_dusk.jpg?1297118673

Matte paint? (I hope)

 

[FuriousDemon]

Take a look at some more. Seems like too many matte painted cars

http://www.needforspeed.com/shift2unleashed/car/bmw-z4-m-coupe
http://www.needforspeed.com/shift2unleashed/car/bmw-m3-e36
http://cdn.prod.needforspeed.com/sites/www.needforspeed.com/files/bugattidusk_1.jpg?1300150211
http://cdn.prod.needforspeed.com/si.../shift2_unleashed_audi_s3_dusk.jpg?1299547722

 

[tribolik]

your right no reflections what so ever.

and look at that. A race modified Reventon. The Reventon looks much better in GT5

 

[FuriousDemon]

Not talking about how models look. Talking about the reflections. Still not completely convinced, however that NSX does look (a little) better. I guess it could be the paint. Anyway, I'm going to stop posting in this thread until the release of the game, too hard to tell what actual problems it will have before playing it (under 2 weeks left). I'm willing to give SMS the benefit of the doubt. See you in 2 weeks.

 

[Speedster502]

and look at that. A race modified Reventon. The Reventon looks much better in GT5

Yup. The Reventon looks so much better in GT5.

I must admit, I hadn't paid much attention to the reflections until now, either way it's not going to change my judgement on the game, it's not a maker or breaker. I think GT5 proved to the worlds that graphics doesn't neccessarily make a good game, it may add a little bit to the experience but that's about it. It's doesn't make it any more fun.

 

[UkHardcore23]

Take a look at these three shots. You can see what I was talking about. The shift pic is from Shift2's official website. If this is a screenshot of how the cars look in Shift1, then it's fine, but if that's how it going to look in the final version, then it's a bit disappointing. It seems like the cars are made out of paper. Maybe lighting wasnt the right word, but it just does not look right. What do you think, guys?

Real McLaren F1:
http://www.dragtimes.com/images/10937972851994-mcLaren-f1.jpg

GT5 McLaren F1:
http://i766.photobucket.com/albums/xx304/robbzy88/HighSpeedRing.jpg

S2U McLaren F1:
http://cdn.prod.needforspeed.com/si...ift2_unleashed_mclaren_f1_dusk.jpg?1297118673

One of the few things GT5 does right is the lighting engine, you wont see another car game come close to it this gen especially not one that is on 3 platforms.

You will need to lower your graphics standards am afraid if you want to play other racing games.

 

[HKS racer]

I really can't understand why people talk about light reflections when we have "Resident Shadow Pixel Evil" in the game, until they fix it (GT6) graphic is ruined. So, Shift 2 graphic until it keep 30fps we all should have nothing wrong with that. It's only a PS3 and no more "next gen".

 

[boxox]

Not talking about how models look. Talking about the reflections. Still not completely convinced, however that NSX does look (a little) better. I guess it could be the paint. Anyway, I'm going to stop posting in this thread until the release of the game, too hard to tell what actual problems it will have before playing it (under 2 weeks left). I'm willing to give SMS the benefit of the doubt. See you in 2 weeks.

This possibly works a little differently in Shift 2, but here's a paint material (decrypted) from Shift 1:

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8" ?>
<material name="PS_PAINT_MATTE_VINYL_MATTE" shader="render\shaders\bodywork.fx" technique="Bodywork" fog="false" antialias="1" numparams="17" cull="EBFCT_ANTICLOCKWISE">
    <shaderparam name="fresnelFactor" type="EPT_F32">
        <value v="0.500000" />
    </shaderparam>
    <shaderparam name="specularTextureAlpha" type="EPT_F32">
        <value v="0.000000" />
    </shaderparam>
    <shaderparam name="vinylsSpecularFactor" type="EPT_F32">
        <value v="0.115000" />
    </shaderparam>
    <shaderparam name="vinylsSpecularPower" type="EPT_F32">
        <value v="1.000000" />
    </shaderparam>
    <shaderparam name="vinylsEMapFactor" type="EPT_F32">
        <value v="0.450000" />
    </shaderparam>
    <shaderparam name="diffuseTexture" type="EPT_TEXTURE">
        <type t="ET_STANDARD" />
        <value v="Vehicles\Textures\COMMON_BLANK.dds" />
    </shaderparam>
    <shaderparam name="specularTexture" type="EPT_TEXTURE">
        <type t="ET_STANDARD" />
        <value v="Vehicles\Textures\COMMON_PAINT_MATT_SPECULAR.dds" />
    </shaderparam>
    <shaderparam name="minSpecPower" type="EPT_F32">
        <value v="1.000000" />
    </shaderparam>
    <shaderparam name="maxSpecPower" type="EPT_F32">
        <value v="200.000000" />
    </shaderparam>
    <shaderparam name="globalSpecularFactor" type="EPT_F32">
        <value v="0.150000" />
    </shaderparam>
    <shaderparam name="globalEMapFactor" type="EPT_F32">
        <value v="0.000000" />
    </shaderparam>
    <shaderparam name="scratchControlTexture" type="EPT_TEXTURE">
        <type t="ET_STANDARD" />
        <value v="Vehicles\Textures\COMMON_BLANK.dds" />
    </shaderparam>
    <shaderparam name="primerBasis" type="EPT_VEC4">
        <value v="0.129412 0.129412 0.129412 1.000000" />
    </shaderparam>
    <shaderparam name="metalBasis" type="EPT_VEC4">
        <value v="0.035294 0.035294 0.035294 1.000000" />
    </shaderparam>
    <shaderparam name="dirtBasis" type="EPT_VEC4">
        <value v="0.137255 0.133333 0.121569 1.000000" />
    </shaderparam>
    <shaderparam name="noiseScale" type="EPT_F32">
        <value v="4.000000" />
    </shaderparam>
    <shaderparam name="dirtScale" type="EPT_VEC4">
        <value v="0.000000 0.000000 1.000000 1.000000" />
    </shaderparam>
    <depthparams>
        <enabled e="true" />
        <writeenabled w="true" />
    </depthparams>
    <alphablendparams>
        <enabled e="false" />
    </alphablendparams>
    <define name="USE_FRESNEL" />
    <define name="MATTE" />
    <define name="USE_VINYLS" />
    <define name="ALLOW_VINYLS" />
    <define name="DIRT_SCRATCH" />
</material>

This is just an example, you'll find they work differently for different surfaces. The short version is, just about every paint scheme will reflect the environment / reflect light / distort light / allow light to pass through paint layers / etc differently. So for example flip/candy/chrome/matte/gloss/etc all interact differently with the light system, and the global light system (set by track) can also be set to interact differently with surfaces globally (eg. more or less scattered light, colour, intensity, etc). In the above matte paint example, we have envmap strength set to zero - so no strong reflections should be displayed from the skybox/environment if we set this as the paint type.

The reflections are meant to be strong on the NSX and weak on the Reventon because .. that's how they handle different paint techniques, and you can make it look different depending on the paint/finish mix. It's not just a colour applied to a generic discoball.

 

[HeadsoupBob]

Check the latest Speedhunters article on Shift 2, I had trouble telling whether some of the shots were in game or RL, especially a couple of the Porsche shots!

Certainly no problems with lighting there

 

[machschnel]

Are you guys looking at the cars or racing them?

 

[Imari]

Are you guys looking at the cars or racing them?

At the moment, looking at them is all we can do...

 

[Luminis]

But looking at the latest screenshots on Speedhunters, I feel quite comfortable about S2U'S graphic quality. Maybe not on GT5's level, but it certainly looks good 👍

 

[Destinkeys]

But my first major disappointment. WTF were these guys thinking? Oh yeah, I can filter a Lobby and have ONLY people using helmet cam, Hood Cam, or whatever I'm using. As if THAT made any difference to the racing.

But I CAN'T filter out kids using all the aids. WT 🤬 is that all about?

SMS spend all this time on an Elite handling mode, and then you can ONLY play it against people using all the aids...

I give up. Somebody at SMS, hire me... I will be your official Idiot Detector.

 

[HKS racer]

Destiny at least with that "behaviour matching" you will able to play with clean driving kids

 

[kikie]

But my first major disappointment. WTF were these guys thinking? Oh yeah, I can filter a Lobby and have ONLY people using helmet cam, Hood Cam, or whatever I'm using. As if THAT made any difference to the racing.

But I CAN'T filter out kids using all the aids. WT 🤬 is that all about?

SMS spend all this time on an Elite handling mode, and then you can ONLY play it against people using all the aids...

I give up. Somebody at SMS, hire me... I will be your official Idiot.

Fixed!

Destinkeys, don't take this personal, it's just a joke I couldn't resist.

Absolutely, 100% no insult intended.

 

[Luminis]

Dunno... Seems like the usual issue:
Want decent online racing, get into a league. Seriously, they have the matchmaking in place, they have other filters in place...

Why couldn't they add the most important one?

 

[DonZonda]

The most important things from the Speedhunter Q&A IMO

http://speedhunters.com/archive/2011/03/16/shift2-unleashed-more-q-and-a-plus-some-nissans.aspx

Things that we wanted to know are included :

1. Same Physics for Drifting and Racing.

2. Damage Model goes as far that you can wreck your car.

3. Photomode is available now everywhere also in the Garage in 720p resolution.


4. Agression vs Precisison. The online Matchmakingsystem will put drivers with the same driving chrackteristics together. So clean drivers will drive among other clean drivers , same goes for the agressive drivers.

5. The Garage has no limit anymore. You can own as many cars you want.


That's just what I wanted to know

 

[UkHardcore23]

But looking at the latest screenshots on Speedhunters, I feel quite comfortable about S2U'S graphic quality. Maybe not on GT5's level, but it certainly looks good 👍

Yeah the car's wont be as good as 200 GT5 cars but they will be alot better than 800 of them and i'd put money on the tracks being quite a bit better.

 

[UkHardcore23]

But my first major disappointment. WTF were these guys thinking? Oh yeah, I can filter a Lobby and have ONLY people using helmet cam, Hood Cam, or whatever I'm using. As if THAT made any difference to the racing.

But I CAN'T filter out kids using all the aids. WT 🤬 is that all about?

SMS spend all this time on an Elite handling mode, and then you can ONLY play it against people using all the aids...

I give up. Somebody at SMS, hire me... I will be your official Idiot Detector.

Aids slows people down, what's the problem?

 

[HKS racer]

Aids slows people down, what's the problem?

What he mean is that a decent skilled driver racing with all aids on could have a slight advantage against a same level skilled driver which race with all aids off. I know aids slow you down, true, but when pushing a 700hp at the limit in race conditions a TC could help: you will loose about 4 or 5 tenth of seconds in the fastest lap BUT you will gain in pace and your car will be easier to drive. And this could be crucial in a close race.

EDIT: yep, there is no confirmation yet aids on really slows you down.

 

[Imari]

Aids slows people down, what's the problem?

Unconfirmed at this point. The aids may be slower, or may be faster. ABS is usually the prime example, using it is almost always faster simply because of the difficulty in braking correctly with no physical feedback.

I assume they're doing it so that the online community doesn't fragment too much in the public matchmaking. Which is desirable IMO, I'd rather the matchmaking system find me good clean drivers who may be using aids to race against, than sticks me up against some bashing elitist knob who has decided having all aids off makes him cool.

As long as we can see who is using what aids so that we can moderate our own leagues, I don't have a problem with it. Visibility would be all it would take to make this a near non-issue as far as I'm concerned.

 

[tinram]

Aggression vs. precision matchmaking looks like the way to go, can be improved on but a still a good thing to have.

Also the filter on online-disconnects sounds pretty good, unless you have a bad internet connection then you be matched with others with poor connections as well, it will be lag season for you . Hopefully you can reset this setting within the game.

 

[Imari]

Aggression vs. precision matchmaking looks like the way to go, can be improved on but a still a good thing to have.

Also the filter on online-disconnects sounds pretty good, unless you have a bad internet connection then you be matched with others with poor connections as well, it will be lag season for you . Hopefully you can reset this setting within the game.

Being able to reset it would defeat the purpose. Disconnecters would just reset every day.

If they're smart, they'll have done it on a time period instead of your total ever disconnects. Keep a running total for the past three weeks or something. That way, if you improve your connection you'll end up in low lag rooms eventually instead of being stuck with the 56kers for the rest of your life.