Anyone else dissapointed in Shift 2?

  • Thread starter Spagetti69
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It really depends what the assist is and how the car is set up. TCS would often make the car slower around the entire track than not using it - but easier to control if you got into difficulties (but usually getting to that point means you've buggered a corner entry/exit anyhow). ABS was very car dependent (power/distribution/cooling wasn't uniform at all between cars and different upgrade levels) and it really depended on your driving style - you could control braking a lot better without it and more easily keep the brakes at their proper temp. ESP again, very car and car setup dependent.

The one assist that DID make you radically faster in Shift 1 (other than simply having more grip from running at 'normal' handling in order to use it) was the conventional "steering assist" which assisted by kicking in when the tyre was in a certain slip state (eg having the computer directly assess the state of the contact patch), rather than grip (simple wheelspin/speed difference) as with conventional TCS assist.
 
Speedster502
Yup. The Reventon looks so much better in GT5. :rolleyes:

I must admit, I hadn't paid much attention to the reflections until now, either way it's not going to change my judgement on the game, it's not a maker or breaker. I think GT5 proved to the worlds that graphics doesn't neccessarily make a good game, it may add a little bit to the experience but that's about it. It's doesn't make it any more fun.
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Cmon you know I was joking dont you? is this a racing game or a photorealistic car porn B&%/&%?
Its obvious that most of the cars on the list have matte paint on them...

We all know that GT5 set a new standard when it comes to graphics but that doesnt mean it makes the game any more fun to play and it will be very difficult for shift 2 to be able to have better graphics than GT5.

But each car has up to 2 or 3 different body kits - 10 different pre design liverys - and a livery editor.

So what if the cars dont look so shinny when I can make my own race Porsche replicas (I hope :D)...
 
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maxpontiac
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1-RmmE3fUs

Center point driving physics?:grumpy:
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I was thinking the same thing today when I saw some of the shots in this vid in one of the other threads. It's either center point driving, or some kind of weird slide mechanic--perhaps combined with an assist.

Something looks a bit wrong, and I lack the vocabulary to articulate it properly.

I'm really on the fence about this game. It all comes down to things I'd probably need to experience for myself, and there's no demo.
 
Luminis
That's something that bothers me with the gameplay videos we've seen so far:
You can't tell whether they're in elite mode or in 'standard' mode :grumpy:
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Correct me if Im wrong, but didn't someone state that the 2 modes have the same physics, and elite mode is just all assists off?
 
Not sure what that guy was doing.
I've never played a driving game with a keyboard? Certainly not analog control.

No demo is sure fishy though.
GT5.
TDU2

Shaun Coles face....
 
reaperman
I'm really on the fence about this game. It all comes down to things I'd probably need to experience for myself, and there's no demo.
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That's why I think this whole thread doesn't make sense at this point.

How can someone reverse engineer a physics engine and game play by looking at a replay video played with god knows what assists and/or controllers. Even worse, consistently insist on putting faults to something (a game in this case) that's not even out yet.

Problem is after the game's out, THERE WILL BE people (mostly fanboys) keeping on ranting about it using nothing more than others comments without even trying themselves. I'm sure there's a word for it...
 
JeffKill
Correct me if Im wrong, but didn't someone state that the 2 modes have the same physics, and elite mode is just all assists off?
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I've heard that too, but where's the source?
To me, this vid seems to somewhat discredit that comment (the *all* assist part, anyway), but stops well short of answering the question.

I don't know why anybody would bother to design 2 full physics modes for the same conditions though--it seems a little stupid. And yes, I do remember that PD did it. The shoe still fits, though.
 
reaperman
I've heard that too, but where's the source?
To me, this vid seems to somewhat discredit that comment (the *all* assist part, anyway), but stops well short of answering the question.

I don't know why anybody would bother to design 2 full physics modes for the same conditions though--it seems a little stupid. And yes, I do remember that PD did it. The shoe still fits, though.
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The source was the live blog interview with Andy Tudor the other night. He confirmed that the different handling modes are all based on the same physics model, with different levels of assists enabled. The linked video shows how that works.
 
GT5 is a simply terrible game IMO, but it drives pretty well, and even with a dualshock controller and all kinds of assists on, I haven't seen replay vids where it looks like it's even slightly possible that the cars pivot in the center. Even in slides, where the car does pivot around a point, often within its dimensions.

Why do it in a modern game at all? Surely it'd be easy enough to 'fake it' by strapping it to a point at the center of a turning radius while grip is present, perhaps when it comes lose, moving the pivot point based on model CG, or slide the pivot point based on speed/momentum. I'm not even trying and I can think of all kinds of possible ways to tart up pivot points.

At this point, what are we hoping for? That it was an old build? The game's been in dozens of people's hands, why do we all still have such basic questions about physics and wheel handling? And why were our questions about them filtered out during that public Q&A? I was asking them, I've heard that others from here were too.


Imari
The source was the live blog interview with Andy Tudor the other night. He confirmed that the different handling modes are all based on the same physics model, with different levels of assists enabled. The linked video shows how that works.
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Ahh, I see, I must have been zoning out during that part. I do see that it locks a couple assists off, but did not know if there was more going on under the hood. Why bother even naming different handling modes at all if all it does is toggle the next two options off for me? That saves the average user half a second once...
 
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Because either the game really sucks and they want to sell some copies before world knows and give a good use to this thread OR we all be amazed keeping it real knowing no game is perfect and this thread can still be used.

Time will tell...
 
Would people seriously quit confusing SimBin and Slightly Mad Studios as being one in the same?

Yes, one of the co-founders of SimBin started SMS, but they are two different studios.
 
As far as the pivot is concerned, how many people actually race in the chase cam view. Most of us are in hood, bumper or cockpit in which you can't tell where the car is pivoting from. If the pivot is the only thing wrong with Shift 2, it will be the title to beat at this point from what I have seen. I agree that this thread is pointless. Now 1 week from now it could be valid. Don't judge a book by its cover until you read it.

There will be cons to every title. The more and more time goes by, the more and more games will be critiqued and criticized by people like us. Its getting to the point where we nick pick too much and we want everything. Real life situation for some of you. No matter how hard they try, they can't satisfy some of you all. There is a threshold between real life and gaming you know.
 
FLIGHT50
As far as the pivot is concerned, how many people actually race in the chase cam view. Most of us are in hood, bumper or cockpit in which you can't tell where the car is pivoting from. If the pivot is the only thing wrong with Shift 2, it will be the title to beat at this point from what I have seen. I agree that this thread is pointless. Now 1 week from now it could be valid. Don't judge a book by its cover until you read it.
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I also would not use the chase cam, but I disagree that you can't tell while driving with the other views. It was very apparent in shift 1 from every view. And it was the 1 thing that kept me from liking the game.

Regardless I will give the game a chance, and I agree that anyone saying they are disappointed with a game that they've never played, is pretty pointless.
 
Luminis
That's something that bothers me with the gameplay videos we've seen so far:
You can't tell whether they're in elite mode or in 'standard' mode :grumpy:
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After seeing this game, I will be holding off on purchasing it.

Spagetti69
Not sure what that guy was doing.
I've never played a driving game with a keyboard? Certainly not analog control.

No demo is sure fishy though.
GT5.
TDU2

Shaun Coles face....
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Well, GT5 did have a demo per se. Remember?

RomKnight
Because either the game really sucks and they want to sell some copies before world knows and give a good use to this thread OR we all be amazed keeping it real knowing no game is perfect and this thread can still be used.

Time will tell...
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Indeed. I figure in two weeks the user feedback will be all over the place.
 
We can knock this central pivot thing on the head now.

Shift 2's physics engine is an evolution of Shift 1's physics engine. Shift 1's physics engine was fundamentally based on the GTR2 engine (GMotor), and then modified according to their needs and what they thought needed to be improved. See here (http://www.virtualr.net/need-for-speed-shift-discussing-shift-with-ian-bell/).

Modified versions of GMotor have been used for some of the most reputable racing sims available, including rFactor, GTR, and GT Legends.

I find it very hard to believe that they started with this amazing physics engine and somehow bodged it to work around a central pivot. It would probably be more difficult than just starting from scratch. The guys that made the game are all sim modders from way back, and breaking a good physics system like that would be insane.

I find it much easier to believe that judging physics from a youtube video is difficult, and that you guys are seeing something that isn't there. Be it from the way the camera reacts in chase mode or whatever. All the evidence available points to the physics system being based on four points of contact.
 
Can't say I'm disappointed.., and honestly don't really see how anyone can seriously be disappointed yet as no one currently owns this title. I'm saving my final judgment for when I actually OWN the game.
 
Regarding the pivoting issue:
On some videos you can notice it (the older gameplay video that shows the Evo), on others, it's not anywhere near as noticible (Leader of the Pack video, Tommy Milners Laguna Seca run).

I just don't get it.
 
Luminis
Regarding the pivoting issue:
On some videos you can notice it (the older gameplay video that shows the Evo), on others, it's not anywhere near as noticible (Leader of the Pack video, Tommy Milners Laguna Seca run).

I just don't get it.
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that video is with all aids on, driven with chase cam and a keyboard by an idiot. This is the difference. Elite mode driven as it shoul be drive is another game.
 
Luminis
Regarding the pivoting issue:
On some videos you can notice it (the older gameplay video that shows the Evo), on others, it's not anywhere near as noticible (Leader of the Pack video, Tommy Milners Laguna Seca run).

I just don't get it.
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With an Evo...you don't think that's exactly the behaviour you'd expect?

It's a four wheel drive car with some fancy electronic controlling torque distribution (which may or may not be modelled). The front of the car is going to move a lot more than a rear wheel drive car, because it's under power. If someone turns hard into a right hand corner the front traction drags the front right, and the inertia drags the rear left. Net result: the car pivots around something approaching it's centre. That's how four wheel drive cars work once they get sliding.

That's what I'd expect to see, based on real physics. I'm not sure what you're expecting to see. If you can explain why what's in the video is wrong and what it should be like, that might help.
 
Luminis
Regarding the pivoting issue:
On some videos you can notice it (the older gameplay video that shows the Evo), on others, it's not anywhere near as noticible (Leader of the Pack video, Tommy Milners Laguna Seca run).

I just don't get it.
Click to expand...

Agreed. It's why I am holding off on my pre-order. If what I read after the release is pleasing to me, I'll definitely pick up Shift 2.
 

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