Arab spring uprises Tunisia/Egypt/Libya/Syria

[Dotini]

As I was fearing, I read today:


Also having the impression that people are bored with the subject.

The US is bored, since our vital interests are not at stake. However, Europe is mightily interested, since Libya is a major source of the world's sweetest, most plentiful and cheapest oil for the Euro market.

European nations such as France, Italy, and Britain are currently trying to man up and find enough courage to grasp the nettle.

Also, the current situation of stalemate is actually the ideal one, leading to a division of the synthetic state of Libya between east and west, with both reduced to selling their oil on terms favorable to their would-be western European overlords.

 

[drivehard]

Found this on digg. I am thurally enlightened!

http://www.guernicamag.com/blog/2607/noam_chomsky_is_the_world_too/

 

[Dotini]

Found this on digg. I am thurally enlightened!

http://www.guernicamag.com/blog/2607/noam_chomsky_is_the_world_too/

Good find, drivehard. Thanks for posting. Chomsky afflicts the comfortable, and comforts the afflicted.

 

[Vince_Fiero]

Quite sad how things are moving in Syria: Condemning the Syrian government's "brutal reaction to its people's demand for change," Amnesty International said sources told the human rights organization Syrian army tanks were deployed in Deraa on Monday and shelled civilian buildings.

But I admit, very difficult to find the right reaction.

Edit:
I'm not the only one
Divided UN fails to agree on reaction to Syria crackdown

 

[prisonermonkeys]

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/8243145/gaddafis-son-killed-in-airstrike-libya

Qaddafi's son and several of his grandchildren have been killed in an airstrike.

 

[Omnis]

I wonder how Americans would feel about some foreign country blowing up Obama's children.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

They obviously wouldn't be too happy about it. But NATO have said that they're not carrying out targeted strikes in an attempt to kill Qaddafi, and we haven't seen anything from them that might suggest otherwise. I don't think this was NATO striking out directly.

 

[Ardius]

They obviously wouldn't be too happy about it. But NATO have said that they're not carrying out targeted strikes in an attempt to kill Qaddafi, and we haven't seen anything from them that might suggest otherwise. I don't think this was NATO striking out directly.

Do you really believe that? Why wouldn't NATO attempt it? They have everything to gain by "accidentally" taking him out.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Then why would they screw around for a month before targeting him? If they wanted him out, they could get him out.

 

[Ardius]

"Screw around" meaning try and fail. Its not easy trying to blow up a dictator you know, the Americans blew up half of Baghdad with Tomahawks trying that.

 

[Keef]

They obviously wouldn't be too happy about it. But NATO have said that they're not carrying out targeted strikes in an attempt to kill Qaddafi, and we haven't seen anything from them that might suggest otherwise. I don't think this was NATO striking out directly.

If NATO never would have struck in the first place this could never be construed as them picking and choosing their targets.

The chances of them hitting his children and grand children are so ridiculous that I'm pretty well sure they're targeting specific people. If not, then this is one helluva screw up on their part.

In this day and age if you believe anything any of these organizations actually tell you then you're a fool.

 

[Dotini]

I thought it might be both fun and appropriate to post this brief look at state-sponsored assassinations of foreign leaders:

As military doctrine
See also: Manhunt (military)

Assassination for military purposes has long been espoused – Sun Tzu, writing around 500 BC, argued in favor of using assassination in his book The Art of War. Nearly 2000 years later Machiavelli also argued assassination could be useful in his book The Prince.[citation needed] In medieval times, an army and even a nation might be based upon and around a particularly strong, canny, or charismatic leader, whose loss could paralyze the ability of both to make war. However, in modern warfare a soldier's mindset is generally considered to surround ideals far more than specific leaders, while command structures are more flexible in replacing officer losses.

There is also the risk that the target could be replaced by an even more competent leader or such a killing (or a failed attempt) will "martyr" a leader and support his cause (by showing the moral ruthlessness of the assassins). Faced with particularly brilliant leaders, this possibility has in various instances been risked, such as in the attempts to kill the Athenian Alcibiades during the Peloponnesian War. A number of additional examples from World War II show how assassination was used as a military tool at both tactical and strategic levels:

* The American interception of Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto's plane during World War II, after his travel route had been decrypted.

* The American perception that Skorzeny's commandos were planning to assassinate Eisenhower during the Battle of the Bulge played havoc with Eisenhower's personal plans for some time, though it did not affect the battle itself. Skorzeny later denied in an interview with The New York Times[citation needed] that he had ever intended to assassinate Eisenhower during Operation Greif, and said that he could prove it.[21]

* Operation Gaff was a planned British commando raid to capture or kill the German Field Marshal Erwin Rommel (also known as "The Desert Fox").[21]

Use of assassination has continued in more recent conflicts:

* During the Vietnam War, partly in response to Viet Cong assassinations of government leaders, the U.S. engaged in the Phoenix Program to assassinate Viet Cong leaders and sympathizers, and killed between 6,000 and 41,000 persons, with official 'targets' of 1,800 per month.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination

 

[Dotini]

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/05/...fter-top-aides-arrested-charged-with-sorcery/

In an astonishing development, as many as 25 people close to Iranian President Ahmadinejad and his chief of staff, Esfandiar Rahim Mashaei, have been arrested and accused of sorcery, according to The Guardian. Ahmadinejad may be close to tendering his resignation.

 

[spiker]

Sorcery? LOL

Gypsy, who is this woman you have shrunk?

 

[Vince_Fiero]

G8 promises $40bn to post-revolution Arab world

Do the dirty work for us and we will reward you, sounds like a very capitalistic approach.
However I tend to disagree this kind of action is not interfering in internal affairs in the Arab countries. On the other hand helping countries out is not a bad thing either.

 

[The Bman]

Currently, there is an arrest warrant for Gaddafi.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/27/gaddafi-arrest-warrant-icc_n_884984.html

 

[Dotini]

G8 promises $40bn to post-revolution Arab world

Do the dirty work for us and we will reward you, sounds like a very capitalistic approach.
However I tend to disagree this kind of action is not interfering in internal affairs in the Arab countries. On the other hand helping countries out is not a bad thing either.

Currently, there is an arrest warrant for Gaddafi.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/27/gaddafi-arrest-warrant-icc_n_884984.html

Europe needs Libya's oil like it needs mother's milk and money. Kill him anyway you can (with mercenaries if need be, since you lack the testicle and firepower to do it yourself) - or forever suck your thumb.

 

[Vince_Fiero]

Any comments on the recent evolution in Egypt?

People are fed up with slow progress and went on the streets again.

 

[HELLAFLUSH240SX]

I think with Egypt It's a case of Easier said than done.
They obviously thought, throw out the govt, all problems subside.
Not the case.

 

[PHCharls]

Currently, there is an arrest warrant for Gaddafi.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/27/gaddafi-arrest-warrant-icc_n_884984.html

Finally he got arrested

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Finally he got arrested

Nope, he hasn't been arrested. An arrest warrant simply means that police have the authorisation to arrest Gaddafi.

 

[PHCharls]

Nope, he hasn't been arrested. An arrest warrant simply means that police have the authorisation to arrest Gaddafi.

Oh I see.

 

[Vince_Fiero]

the International Criminal Court issued an arrest warrant

The court in The Hague, Netherlands, lacks police powers, and the force most likely to arrest Gadhafi appears to be the rebels battling to oust him.

It is a strong political signal, but there is a very limited chance on execution.
It does limit the choices of life after Lybia for Gaddafi.

 

[sumbrownkid]

^I have a sick feeling the Royal House of Saud will grant that vagabond asylum.

Keepers of Islam my ass.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Well, the past few days have seen the Libyan rebels make some massive advances. And now they've finally done what they've been threatening to do for the past six months, and taken control of Tripoli, including the Green Square, which has signifcane to Muammar Qaddafi because it was a key site in the 1969 coup. Speaking of the devil, Qaddafi's son Seif has been arrested and detained, but there is no sign of Qaddafi himself. He's apparently looking to negotiate with the rebels and remain in power as if they are still a hundred kilometres shy of the city, but the National Transitional Council have only said they'll give him safe passage out of the country if he steps down, and that's about it.

 

[DK]

I'm willing to bet 5 Zimbabwean dollars that Gaddafi will be found in a hole, much like Saddam.

 

[niky]

Man... I never expected they'd be able to do it!

 

[prisonermonkeys]

The battle for Tripoli is still going on. Qaddafi is nowhere to be seen, despite calls for him to show himself and step down to end the violence. He clearly still thinks that he can win the civil war despite the fact that large parts of the capital are under NTC control.

Man... I never expected they'd be able to do it!

It did look a little hopeless for a while there - but then, about a week ago, the National Transitional Council (we should stop calling them "the rebels" since thirty-odd nations recognise them as the governing power in Libya) started a push towards the capital and advanced very quickly. From that point on, it was inevitable that they'd make it.

 

[HELLAFLUSH240SX]

I am disappoint in the ignorance of the world.
I see this whole Libya deal turning around and biting this in everyones ass.
Kind of like Afganastan in the 80s and 90s.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

How, exactly? The mujahideen received direct assistance from the West to repel the Soviets, with most of the aid coming from America. The National Transitional Council, on the other hand, has received no direct aid. NATO enforced a no-fly zone and carried out bombing campaigns, but that was mostly to prevent Qaddafi from launching aerial strikes of his own, thereby forcing the conflict to remain grounded. The West has repeatedly refused to arm the NTC or send in ground troops. It's completely different to the invasion of Afghanistan (or, for that matter, Vietnam), where America only really got involved because the USSR (and in the case of Vietnam, communism) did.