Arab spring uprises Tunisia/Egypt/Libya/Syria

[blaaah]

More reported naval maneuvers to ponder: http://www.debka.com/article/20692/

These are like moving the heavier pieces on a chess board.

'US State Department spokesman P.J. Crowley a day earlier: "If the ships move through the canal, we will evaluate what they actually do," he said. "It's not really about the ships. It's about what the ships are carrying, what's their destination, what's the cargo on board, where's it going, to whom and for what benefit."'

This is exactly what I thought when I first heard of the Iranian movement, it's all about the cargo.
They must have guessed they would have a search request, but they could be going the short way around to Syria collect something and take the long way back.

 

[orimarc]

I believe I just heard every Daily Mail reader crap their pants.

Now really, it is a serious thing. I hope this encourages other repressed countries to stand up and say:

"SCREW YOU AND YOUR DICTATORSHIP TOO!"

 

[Vince_Fiero]

Lybia is really explosive.

Radio was stating:
* Crimes against humanity
* UN takes weeks to react
* If you intervene as individual country here, what is next?
* Were the big arms deals done with Kadhafi recently ethical?

It seems that part of the country is under control of "freedom fighters", in other parts everyone protesting is condemned to death.

This is getting very bloody.

 

[DK]

Of course those arms deals with Gaddafi weren't ethical. Again, it just shows that money really does make the world go round.

 

[Vince_Fiero]

Of course those arms deals with Gaddafi weren't ethical. Again, it just shows that money really does make the world go round.

I listen to French radio and this is bugging them big time:
Nicolas Sarkozy defends Libyan arms deal

============

This man has a complicated name: معمر القذافي Muʿammar Al-Qaḏâfî
AKA Kadafi, Algathafi, al-Kadhafi, al-Gaddafi, Al Qadafi, Gueddafi, Gheddafi, El-Gueddafi, Gaddafi

 

[Dotini]

Of course those arms deals with Gaddafi weren't ethical. Again, it just shows that money really does make the world go round.

It has been repeatedly pointed out in GTP threads by scores of our stalwarts that guns don't kill people. So presumably neither do tanks, helicopter gunships nor any kind of WMD like nukes, chem or bio.

The sanctity of property and markets are at the heart of neo-liberal capitalism, and presumably democracy, too. Isn't it just a bit late in the day to start talking about morality? Tell me where morality is ensconced in any constitution or corporate charter. Who are we - the world's policeman? - to intervene in the sovereign affairs of others? The world is drenched in injustice and genocide, but we Americans are now well experienced at sitting on our thumbs until it's in our particular interests to invade and try to impose our rather exceptional morality.

Not only does money make the world go around, it makes it go up and down as well. Money is our secular god. Oil is better than gold. Libya has oil. So we must do business with Libya, no matter who is running the place.

In some irony,
Dotini

 

[Vince_Fiero]

... Oil is better than gold. Libya has oil. So we must do business with Libya, no matter who is running the place.
...

This makes it double as interesting, where are we really standing in international politics at the moment.

 

[blaaah]

1000 dead in Libya, murdered by their own police and military, not an accident of nature, put's it into perspective with the New Zealand Earthquake.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Be careful what you post. While some sources are claiming up to one thousand have died, those reports remain unconfirmed. Three hundred deaths is considered to be a more accurate estimation. While that is no less of a tragedy, wild accusations and insinuations - particuarly if you start using them to try and prove a point - will only get this thread closed.

 

[blaaah]

I stand by what I said.
Be careful what you post, death toll in NZ is 75 in the news.
It is you who are making accusations and insinuations, you watch what your saying and how you are behaving.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/8342543/Libya-more-than-1000-dead.html
Reports of credible 1000 at least dead in Libya.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Then provide a source. Like this one:

Italy's Foreign Minister Franco Frattini said estimates of some 1,000 people killed in the violence in Libya were "credible," although he stressed information about casualties was incomplete. The New York-based Human Rights Watch has put the death toll at nearly 300, according to a partial count.

If you're going to say something, you'd better make damn sure you can back it up.

 

[blaaah]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12550719
At least 300 dead, over 1000 feared. Which is more than the 75 dead so far in New Zealand, my point on perspective was not just numbers, even if the numbers were about the same, these Libyans were killed by their own authorities. I would rather have been scared for my life in New Zealand than in Libya. In NZ you wait and hope the government come to rescue you or provide food/water/shelter. In Libya you hope the government doesn't kill or torture you for walking the streets at the wrong time and place.
Just a thought on perspective and a news update. Nothing more.

Response to deleted post deleted by Administrator.

 

[Touring Mars]

The fact is, it is nigh on impossible right now to get completely reliable information from Libya, given that the country is imploding and that there are virtually no foreign journalists able to verify the situation on the ground. There are, however, enough credible reports of casualties and of who is responsible (i.e. pro-Gaddafi forces, including paid, foreign mercenaries) to be able to post about such things without the fear of being accused of making 'wild accusations'.

 

[sumbrownkid]

Defecting army units, mercenaries, eastern coast claimed by opposition...

This sounds like a Civil War is brewing up.

 

[Touring Mars]

Defecting army units

This much is definitely true... and one has to commend the bravery and humanity of the Libyan pilots who refused to carry out orders to attack civilians, diverting instead to Malta to claim political asylum. One can only hope that their families don't suffer any consequences for their actions...

 

[sumbrownkid]

This much is definitely true... and one has to commend the bravery and humanity of the Libyan pilots who refused to carry out orders to attack civilians, diverting instead to Malta to claim political asylum. One can only hope that their families don't suffer any consequences for their actions...

Indeed they are brave, and hopefully the rest of the military will follow suit and either disobey orders or fight for the people.

 

[blaaah]

US is saying it will take any action needed to resolve the Libyan situation, they are holding the Libyan government fully responsible.
This is a warning to Libyan government/Gaddahfi possibly that military action could be taken.

 

[zedextreme8177]

I'd think it would be best for the US to stay out of Libya unless it gets extremely out of hand.

It will only lead to more trouble and more terrorism.

And Gazzafi himself is appearing to lose his mind, considering the speech he recently gave.

 

[sumbrownkid]

US is saying it will take any action needed to resolve the Libyan situation, they are holding the Libyan government fully responsible.
This is a warning to Libyan government/Gaddahfi possibly that military action could be taken.

Is it because Libya has oil?

 

[DK]

Oh boy, Iraq Mk. II! I'm seriously hoping Obama isn't as stupid as Bush in this aspect.

 

[sumbrownkid]

Oh boy, Iraq Mk. II! I'm seriously hoping Obama isn't as stupid as Bush in this aspect.

Well Obama doesn't have a Dick Cheney running the show, nor a Donald Rumsfeld like crony encouraging him.

 

[lbsf1]

Oh boy, Iraq Mk. II! I'm seriously hoping Obama isn't as stupid as Bush in this aspect.

Apart from the fact that there is nothing similar between the two countries situations, except having a dictator.

 

[blaaah]

Libya is like almost ready on a plate to be eaten. But that is only in power/military terms, you can't rule people who don't want you there. But it could be done another way. Any country is fair game for the US if it doesn't have Nuclear weapons. You can't ignore the oil situation, even if it's not to take it but just to control the barrel price which has increased a lot since the Libyan crisis. Doing nothing is not an option if it doesn't get resolved. As it happens I don't see this going on for too long.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I don't think having the US intervene and try to set things right would be a good idea. Not unless the people of Libya asked them too. A better strategy would be to have UN peacekeepers go in if things get to the point of civil war. Until then, I think this is something the Libyan people need to do for themselves simply necause they need the change. Gaddaffi's grip on the country is deterioriating by the hour; I'd be very surprised if he's still in power come Monday. A revolution that is brought about by the people of Libya would hold much more weight than having the US come along, dig Gaddaffi out for them and then try to put a democracy in place. The danger is that Libya might degenerate into civil war once Gaddaffi has been deposed, if it isn't already.

 

[sumbrownkid]

Besides, America has no money to field an armed force anywhere else.

 

[blaaah]

No but they can borrow money to do it. Or.

 

[sumbrownkid]

^Ah of course! The A-Team!

How can I forget?



Edit: My Avatar pities me cause I'm a "foo" apparently.

 

[blaaah]

I ain't gettin' on no plane to Libya.

 

[sumbrownkid]

I ain't gettin' on no plane to Libya.

I wouldn't even want to google search Libya...That's how far I'd stay away from there.

 

[Vince_Fiero]

... Oil is better than gold. Libya has oil. So we must do business with Libya, no matter who is running the place.
...

Next message here on the radio was, Kadhafi lost control of the East, where the oil is, but is still controlling the West.

Reaction:

US is saying it will take any action needed to resolve the Libyan situation, they are holding the Libyan government fully responsible.
This is a warning to Libyan government/Gaddahfi possibly that military action could be taken.

The revolution might stand a chance since they focussed on what gives the power, the oil. To be continued .....