Assetto corsa coming to PS4 and Xbox one
- Thread starter hennessey86
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- Leiria
- jpfctf
- jpfctf
mister dog
(Banned)
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- misterdog
- misterdog7
Just went back to the Japanese pack as i didn't get through to testing all those classic JDM's properly before. Ex GT guys here that fancy Japanese car culture will love how much attention to detail was given to replicate the old GTR, RX7 (in 2 versions), and the Supra (3 versions). They even have 90's street tyres you can select.
They all sound the part, the engine sounds, those loud turbo's and blow off valves...
You can take the drift Supra out and start practicing slides without needing to adjust the setup. Tuned version of the RX7 in AC reminds me of my GT1 days. My sleeper car was a normal RX7 fully tuned and with a racing conversion. Used to win the Grand Valley 300 a lot with that car 
:
Haven't even tried the tuned Supra yet.
They all sound the part, the engine sounds, those loud turbo's and blow off valves...
You can take the drift Supra out and start practicing slides without needing to adjust the setup. Tuned version of the RX7 in AC reminds me of my GT1 days. My sleeper car was a normal RX7 fully tuned and with a racing conversion. Used to win the Grand Valley 300 a lot with that car :Haven't even tried the tuned Supra yet.
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- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
Oh I'm sure someone will come along with a list of specs of the old JDM cars and point out that the toe is off by 0.05 and the weight is short by 20 kgs and the cars are inaccurate because they use factory specs etc.Just went back to the Japanese pack as i didn't get through to testing all those classic JDM's properly before. Ex GT guys here that fancy Japanese car culture will love how much attention to detail was given to replicate the old GTR, RX7 (in 2 versions), and the Supra (3 versions). They even have 90's street tyres you can select.
They all sound the part, the engine sounds, those loud turbo's and blow off valves...
Haven't even tried the tuned Supra yet.
mister dog
(Banned)
- 8,396
- Spain
- misterdog
- misterdog7
Well in any case i think this as close as it gets to the real thing in any game, so toe can be off a bit i don't mind
brownninja97
(Banned)
- 475
- United Kingdom
- Vinay8
well if i must there is a 2.7889342mm screw on the underside which should be a philips head screw. Disappointing and uninstall worthy. It took longer to uninstall then its rivals, worth game ever. 0/86Oh I'm sure someone will come along with a list of specs of the old JDM cars and point out that the toe is off by 0.05 and the weight is short by 20 kgs and the cars are inaccurate because they use factory specs etc.
- 12,018
- Indianapolis
- BrandonW77
Worse than that, I hear they copy/pasted some suspension info from the street Supra into the drift Supra.
Unforgivable!! 👎👎
- 11,660
- GTP_Orido
Well, I have discussed AC on this page with @LeGeNd-1 :
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/ridox-replica-garage-in-memory-of-turnleft.294814/page-149
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/ridox-replica-garage-in-memory-of-turnleft.294814/page-151 - there's a post about FD3S DGCS ( Kunos used the word rear wheel steering ) Don't want to quote all of them here and cluttered the thread, read them to know more about my view of AC, while others may be extremely positive, I find it hard to be like so.
Read through the pages to see what sort of stuff discussed, @ALB123 was there too
That much won't be issue
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/ridox-replica-garage-in-memory-of-turnleft.294814/page-149
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/ridox-replica-garage-in-memory-of-turnleft.294814/page-151 - there's a post about FD3S DGCS ( Kunos used the word rear wheel steering ) Don't want to quote all of them here and cluttered the thread, read them to know more about my view of AC, while others may be extremely positive, I find it hard to be like so.
Read through the pages to see what sort of stuff discussed, @ALB123 was there too
Oh I'm sure someone will come along with a list of specs of the old JDM cars and point out that the toe is off by 0.05 and the weight is short by 20 kgs and the cars are inaccurate because they use factory specs etc.
That much won't be issue
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- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
You'd think Italian 's would do their research and know that Americans use Phillips screws almost exclusively
- 5,217
- A faster Hamster from London, England!😁
- HammyMansell1980
Preview of the PS4 version from TeamVVV, looking good, and as stated in the video, footage is without the DOP applied! Enjoy!!
brownninja97
(Banned)
- 475
- United Kingdom
- Vinay8
i love the late 90s-early 2000s techno in the background. dont hear that very often.
- 12,018
- Indianapolis
- BrandonW77
Have you tried AC or is that opinion just based on spec sheets of the car parts?
You'd think Italian 's would do their research and know that Americans use Phillips screws almost exclusively
Surely you aren't suggesting Phillips screws are somehow inferior to the one-slot-that-the-screwdriver-ALWAYS-slips-out-of-and-cuts-my-finger screws?
I actually get a bit upset when I have to work on something and someone used a non-Phillips screw, it's maddening.
- 11,660
- GTP_Orido
Read the pages I linked, you should know without asking it here. I had lots of discussion about it, or should I quote all of them ? but the context may be lost as I was answering or asking @LeGeNd-1 and @ALB123 ( both have AC and these 2 members are easier to discuss with than some and they are not bias )
I do have played a lot of PC sims, from GP3 days to LFS ( the most my crappy laptop can run ), which I often asked people who have AC to give honest comparison in physics to LFS ( not FFB ).
- 12,018
- Indianapolis
- BrandonW77
I clicked on them but neither went to anything discussing AC and since I'm at work I don't have time to read through lots of pages. Wasn't trying to be antagonizing or combative, was just trying to clarify for other readers because I know you have very specific interests with building accurate replicas of cars in racing games so your reasons for not liking it may not be of concern to others who are just wanting to have fun driving/racing. If you've driven it and don't like it, fair enough. If you haven't driven it but have decided that you don't like it based on how realistic (or unrealistic) the setups are I think that's important info for someone reading who hasn't played and is trying to decide if they want to give it a go.
- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
Dude. One of the greatest Canadian inventions ever...the Robertson screw.Have you tried AC or is that opinion just based on spec sheets of the car parts?
Surely you aren't suggesting Phillips screws are somehow inferior to the one-slot-that-the-screwdriver-ALWAYS-slips-out-of-and-cuts-my-finger screws?
- 11,660
- GTP_Orido
That's the problem, you are not reading them, it's only page 149 and 151, and you can skip my replica posts
Legend-1 and I talked about Japanese car DLC cars, then about springs, and camber issue, about car power, RX7 Torsen LSD, then he reviewed GT6 replicas vs AC. He gave comparison to LFS physics and some details on FFB in AC vs LFS. I don't hate it nor I liked it as havent played it, I linked them to show my concerns about the game and if you read through, skip the replica posts, you would see that I'm still interested to get it in the future just to satiate my curiosity. Should I quote them then ? but people who read them may miss the context, or you can just read them later when you have time.For me, the devil is in the details, not just the execution
Okay this is from page 151, warning lots of quotes but all in order :
Bleh... 1:40.383 is my best lap in the Aventador SV so far, Ridox. I ran 7 laps - 4 of them were DQ. I haven't put together a single lap yet where I actually hit my intended braking and/or turn-in points. I'll stop for now and give it another try a little bit later. You were pretty much always 2-3s per lap faster than me when I played GT6 exclusively, so I'm not surprised you're kicking my butt still!
My Aventador SV is 1650kg (1484kg sprung - 166kg unsprung) plus 30 liters of fuel. Surprisingly, we don't get a weight distribution unless it's provided in the car's text description. I was driving in totally stock mode, which means ABS and Traction Control are both turned on. I rarely drive with TC turned off in this game. The Aventador SV has 2 TC modes. For those first set of laps I was running with the more intrusive TC setting. When I re-run the laps I will lower TC to a more racing friendly level of TC. I'll even try some with TC completely off, but I'm sure I will be awful with it totally turned off. I never activate Stability Control on ANY cars. Even Stefano, the head programmer/owner of Kunos says that Stability Control is not a real type of stability control - it's probably more like Skid Recovery Force - totally lame.
Disc brake temperatures haven't been enabled for this car yet, but there is so much other realtime telemetry available if you wanted to tweak this thing. Actually, while they don't tell me exactly the weight distribution, I suppose I could figure it out by parking the car on perfectly flat ground and pulling up the tire loads telemetry preset. It gives you the realtime load of all 4 tires - so just add the front tires load (or rear tires load) and then figure out the percentage compared to overall weight.
I expected just below 1:40s for AC Aventador SV compared to GT6, you are not that far
I can understand with SC being artificial, the real car SC system is complicated and interconnected unity, from steering, brakes, wheel sensors, engine and other various sensors ( Haldex controller, G's sensors ). To simulate all that, each car in a car sim will have to be built in many interconnected sim objects, from chassis, body, suspension parts, wheels, brakes, engine, transaxle, diff, steering, aero parts, electrical systems ( ECUs, assists ), tires and a global parameters ( weight, cog, cod, mechanical grip, etc )
Each part will need to have fluid interactive properties so the simulated assist like Stability Control can be at least somewhat realistic in operation ( brake fade/strength, steering forces, engine loads affected by atmosphere/altitude as well throttle response, tire heat/load, differential load/wheel speed changes etc )
If a car game is a one car simulator, that may be doable
Does brake fade in AC in the last update ?
I wish I have a powerful desktop PC
I can't access that page as I'm not AC forum member, but I know the kind of details to expect for a hybrid power management suite. I was a hardcore PC flight sim addict when I was young, and complicated functions, button presses to execute a simple task are the norm on flight sim. I had a buddy with FSX and IRIS packs, I used to play with F14 TOMCAT IRIS, and starting the engine, taxing to take off in that plane is a journey, then the avionics and dogfights with MIGs and Sukhois
An F1 car may be complicated but not as much as a jet fighter like F14 or F15
By the way, does in AC when a car has tire blow out/flat, you can see the tires that loses pressure flexing when stopping and the whole dynamic interaction is simulated, say one left rear wheel is flat on FR car, and the rear LSD simulated realistically when driven ? I really like LFS tire and suspension physics, it's one of the best IMO. The only F1 car in LFS is BMW F1, the old one, and it's nice to drive even with keyboard !!
Ah, I didn't know they blocked the pages like that. I put the 110kb pdf in a link below if you're interested in reading when u have free time. This stuff is just way over my head. A simple button press for KERS and a button for DRS I can handle. This stuff is just baffling to me.. Thank god I don't give a crap about that car.
Hmm. To be honest, I don't know a heck of a lot about blown tires in AC. I don't know if I've ever blown a tire before. Their is tire wear, of course, along with blistering and graining and if you lock 'em up you'll create flat spots. Flat spots look funny when you have the tire temperature app on screen. The rest of the tire is at a much lower temp than the flat spot rubber, so you see the flat spot flash by over and over, simulating a revolving tire.
I do remember driving a pretty crummy mod car and I absolutely thrashed the tires from a lock-up and then sliding the car sideways for a long, long way (it was downhill). The visual indicator was fire red and the car wouldn't even drive, basically. I know I didn't blow the engine, but I can't tell you exactly what happened to my tires. I was frustrated and quickly called up "Back to the Pits" where they automatically put new tires on for you, though you can see the final three temps of the tire, the air pressure while cold & warm and the percentage of graining and percentage of blistering. I'll try to find a good answer for you.
http://www.filedropper.com/ferrarisf15-t --
EDIT: I saw your Pagani Huayra time at Red Bull Ring posted above. I'll give that a try as well once I've given up on the Aventador SV. I'm sure I'll be a good 2-3 seconds behind you, like always!!
EDIT 2: Visually, I think rFactor 2 has way nicer tires. Their flex is awesome and I think it's just a more mature, more sophisticated tire model. Kunos is still relatively young compared to Image Space Incorporated...I have faith they will get it much better in time.
Thanks, got the pdf, read it, pretty simple IMO, it's balancing act depending on the track and driver. The time consuming part is creating an optimum profile for each track and session ( qualify and race ), as well as special profile for special case ( aggressive mode for last half of the race while assuming using low mode for first half to suit wet track that started to dry halfway, etc ) The profiles are a bit long to digest, but the concept is easy to understand, it's like running NOS strategy for each gear or variable turbo boost profile based on RPM and gear position, only this time is more complicated with fuel usage limit, energy regen + usage limit and how the profile based more on the throttle position, not just gear position
One way to blow the tire is to run extreme temp + load, you should be able to see visually the tire deformed when flat, the car should still can travel at low speed, what's interesting is how the tires behaved in this condition
Do you have the RX7 car in AC ? Try run 20% lower pressure on one of the rear tires, and see how the rear torsen LSD react, there should be some torque steer and flexing tire there
Yes. I have the RX7...Great car! Ohh, you should have seen the arguments in the official forum about the "rear wheel steering" of the RX7... LOL People were losing their minds on both sides of the argument. Finally, Aristotelis (physics guy for AC) came in to explain what's going on with the car in AC:
It's not an active rear steering. Simply put, there are bushings in the suspension that depending on the load, bend in one way or another, slightly steering the wheels about 0.3° against the front steering wheel angle if the g's are less than 0.5g, or at the same front steering wheel angle if the g forcers are superior to 0.5g
There is no way to simulate this with bump steer, you need the have both rear wheels steering to the same direction and the opposite depending on the load. We can now simulate this.
EDIT: since the effect is cool but not so precise (and passive) it is usually eliminated from tuned cars with harder bushings. As a matter of fact our tuned RX7 car doesn't have it. We did some homework
On the contrary, R34 system is active. It turns the rear wheels differently depending on the front steer, g forces, yaw angles etc.
And then in an additional post:
Just to clarify. The FC had massive amounts of passive rear steering (by massive I mean 1.5° degrees, always small) and was also actively promoted by marketing as it was the era's high achievement (copied by Porsche 928 system).
The FD (the one we simulate) has a much much MUCH more limited rear steering, just 0.3°...tiny. It wasn't even marketed by Mazda. But it adds a bit of character to the car. There's indeed a lot of confusion if you do the simple google search on the car about that rear steering. We obviously have some extra resources.
BTW, all of these DLC cars, like the RX7 will all be standard issue for the console release. So, console players are saving about $50 compared to what PC users have had to spend to get everything so far. I'm glad they're doing it that way.
The stock RX-7 Spirit R is a great car, but they also gave us a Tuned RX-7 with 444bhp and 398Nm of torque. That thing rocks!
The DTSS on FC was well known back in the day, many RX7 forums discussed this in detail
There's no need for extra resources to know the details, just go to RX7 specialist tuner/garage in forums, and they will tell everything about it, including eliminating it or setting up for track use
The Super HICAS system on the other hand, is a lot more complicated, and detailed workings is harder to get information ( I only have the basic strategy for Super HICAS- from my past experience ), unless one can get the rare documentations ( more likely in japanese ) or met with someone who have experience servicing/removing/controlling it with special device.
The ATTESA and SUPER HICAS are both system that I doubt Kunos can do well, as both are very sophisticated active system with dynamic nature in operation based on many variables like driver input, tire, track condition, wheel speeds, G's load. The Hybrid system in Ferrari F1 is simpler in comparison as it has profiles and set values for rate of regeneration for example, 2MJ full charge on each lap needs 16.7s braking. It's like adding extra engine power source that works using input/output rate based on throttle + gear position.
Geez.. That's all stuff that shoots way over my head!
I was able to try about 5 more laps around Red Bull w/Aventador SV.. I still haven't cracked 1:40s yet!
http://www.radiators-champ.com/RSRLiveTiming/index.php?page=rank&track=4406&car=3402&rank_type=all&tyre_type=Hypercar+road+(HR)&controller_type=all&community=all&friends=all
1:36s
By the way, the Kunos statement about FC and FD RX-7 passive system is not accurate
This is the correct DTSS FC RX-7 description that is well written by a RX7 Club forum member :
"Mazda added what is called the camber-control link (the inner arm of the "y" formed by the trailing arm), the geometry of which is designed to virtually eliminate camber change under compression. Straight forward enough there, as extreme camber gain, leading to loss of contact patch, is part of why semi-trailing arm suspensions are known for snap oversteer.
The second element, which is both tricky in the sense of clever engineering, and in the sense of tricking skilled drivers attempting to drive at the limit, involves toe control, through what's called the "floating hub". This is where the DTSS bushings come in. The hub has three connection points to the trailing arm, the 2 rear-most of which form an axis which allows the hub to rotate the wheel/tire thu a small range of toe-in (rear wheels track slightly towards the centreline of the car) to toe out, through controlled deformation of the forward-most link, the DTSS bushing at the lower front of the hub. Under braking or acceleration, the geometry and deflection are such that the hub will rotate to slight toe in, which is a good thing, as it promotes stability and keeping the rear end behind the front. Again, keep in mind that traditional semi-trailing arms tend to behave oppositely under acceleration and braking(both in toe in and toe out, and camber gain/loss). So this is a big improvement, maintaining the more stable toe-in configuration under both conditions, rather than suddenly changing from one to the other as one does when going from acceleration to braking, and vice-versa (which happens a lot in racing ).
The floating hub and DTSS bushing also allow changing toe control under cornering, changing from slight toe out below ~.5g, thru neutral at ~.5g (assuming your rear alignment is correct), and increasing to progessively more toe-in at higher cornering loads, which is inherently more stable. At below .5g (most cornering and lane changes in street driving), the slight toe-out enhances the sensation of responsiveness. Note, this is more of a sensation, as what happens is the rear tires describe a slightly larger arc than what they would otherwise, but begin building slip angle sooner rather than lagging very slightly behind the fronts which initiate the turn.This communicates to the driver as enhanced agility or responsiveness, but would be inherently unsafe at higher cornering loads, because the rear tires are trying to describe a larger arc than what they should - which is the beginning of a a spin if not corrected. Transitioning to toe in at higher loads means mild but safe, predictable understeer at higher cornering speeds, while at lower speeds/loads. the driver gets to feel a sensation of near instant responsiveness to steering inputs."
As you can see, the system is passive and do not technically steer, but dynamically alter the toe angle of the wheel depending on the load.
It has unique trait as well, that can be easily tested if Kunos did the homework well - snap oversteer ( most real FC owner/driver who have driven on the limit will have encountered it ), and it has the most effect on the FC RX-7 as it uses different suspension type than the FD. The FD3S RX-7 has a new name for the system ( I hope Kunos knows the name
The FD RX-7 DGCS works on all 4 wheels, unlike FC which only works on rear wheels, this also makes the FD a lot more stable and better handling as both end has the toe control system.
The dynamic toe control also employed on Mazda Miata (NA,NB,NC) and RX8, it's a suspension design feature.
Yeah, defo needs more testing. I'm beginning to wonder if downforce in GT6 is not absolute number, just like dampers. Case in point, the Peugeot RCZ has a really high rear downforce (IIRC higher than FXX and some supercars). That's just ridiculous on a street car like that. Then there's also Senna's F3 which has 4 digits downforce compared to the Formula GT which only has 700/900. For touring cars, most of the cars ported from GT4/5 have their old values (plus added zero behind), but GT3 that are new to GT6 have much higher rear max downforce than front (e.g. compare standard R8 LMS and premium R8 LMS Ultra).
It's gonna be hard to test without hacking the cars though. I'm thinking pick a car with 200 stock rear downforce. Test top speed and use telemetry to check ride height at v-max. Then hack it to have 0 rear downforce. Repeat tests. Then hack a GT Auto rear wing to add 20 rear downforce. Repeat tests and compare all 3 results.
I'm hoping with GTS PD will update all cars' values so they are at least equivalent. Otherwise it's just too confusing for tuning. Better still have a virtual "wind tunnel" ala NFS ProStreet where you can see the drag and downforce changes with each wing adjustment you make
With regards to AC tyre model, their newest DLC cars are now V10 tyre model. Other cars are V7 but Kunos will update all of them in the next patch. The feeling of rubbery-ness is much improved with V10. But I still think LFS has the edge on the rubbery feeling specifically. Weight transfer FFB is about equal in both. However, environmental FFB is better in AC so I'd say overall AC FFB is better than LFS now. Another sim you should look into is Automobilista. It's based on ISImotor (rFactor engine) but they have tweaked it to absolute perfection. If you can run LFS you should be able to run it (albeit at low graphics probably). The latest update added Pneumatic Trail effects into the FFB and it also makes the car feel all rubbery now
Your Huayra is next on my list to try
Both Mazda has been updated with Super LSD setup, the Tochigi Fuji Sangyo Super LSD uses cone and spring arrangement, enabling creation of initial torque/preload. The Super LSD uses low Torque Bias Ratio for controllability at 2:1 with 49 Nm initial torque for improved stand still starting, straight ahead driving, and accel/decel response. The Tochigi Fuji Sangyo is now owned by GKN Driveline, and the new Mazda Miata ND uses Super LSD, using GKN name. If you have a game with the new Mazda Miata ND, look for the LSD, it should reflect TBR and initial torque values for accuracy
Aero is confusing in GT6
What's strange, on super cars with stock 200 rear aero, adding rear wing only adds 20 more, 220 max, and the effect almost can't be felt.
JDM cars with adjustable rear wing like R34 GTR Vspec Nur and MAzda RX7 Spirit R has adjustable rear aero in GT6 with 80 max value, these 80 aero can be felt easily, although GT6 aero drag is still lacking. I've compared the acceleration above 180kmh and top speed of the stock R34 GTR nur on both GT5 and GT6 at La Sarthe no chicane, and GT5 is much more realistic with max rear aero as GT6 R34 is faster accelerating above 180kmh and top speed is higher by more than 10kmh ( if I remember it right, it was done months ago )
Amazing what LFS could do with only a few people making it
Does the RX7 Spirit R in AC has rear torsen ? I'm refining my Spirit R replica in GT6, it grips well even on CH
If you have time, try this with the RX7 Spirit R ( stock road car ), drive until the car reach optimum tire and brake temp, take a corner at optimum possible cornering speed ( max load ), lift off the throttle then dab the brakes ( light pressure ), make a note on how both front and rear tracks as the dynamic toe works.
The Huayra is perfect RidoxI am very familiar with this car because it's my control car (drove it after every update, just to see if PD changes any physics). Tuned to 650 PP my Huayra on SS can do 2.06 at Ascari previously. With your tuning it goes 2.04 in the first lap. So much easier to drive on the limit 👍
Also re-tested the Aventador, with more rear bias it's a lot more stable surprisingly. Guess you need that weight for traction after all. The Car & Driver specs feel closest to AC for me. Using OHLINS setup (not AC suspension), low preload and Corsa dampers. Only thing that's off is braking is a bit weak in GT6, so I bumped up BB to 4/5 and it's bang on. I did 1.40 in AC and 1.38 in GT6, which is what you expect with the physics. Top job 👍
Actually the higher front aero for NISMO GTR LM should be correct. The car is very front heavy, front tyres are wider than rear and the venturi tunnels at the front produce most of the downforce. It's a front biased car, the rear end is basically just there to hold the 2 rear wheels
PD definitely improved the aero calculations in GT6. I remember in GT5 you just max out front/rear and that will be fastest. Now you have to test the balance carefully. High speed drag is still too lacking though - the only thing that's better simulated in GT5.
Drag CD I think it is modelled in a rudimentary way. There was a bug in the early version of GT6 where you can have 500 HP on a Daihatsu Move, and it can reach speeds of 360+ km/h
Yes, I remember the R34 and RX7 in GT5 had 8 rear aero. If you buy rear wing it becomes 28 max. In GT6 it has 80 stock, and 100 max with rear wing. I'm too lazy to dig out my GT5 copy to do tests though
I wonder if the higher top speed is due to wheelie effect? Raising front ride height and maxxing out rear downforce will cause car's top speed to increase beyond normal means in GT (this glitch has been present all the way back since GT2).
Anyway, I'm sure this is all due to PD haven't finished updating all the cars' physics. With GTS I have high hopes since they are starting over that everything will be built to the same standard.
You mean torsen diff? No idea, AC doesn't tell you LSD type specifically. I could try looking into in game files for you.
I can test the RX7. What changes specifically am I expecting? From reading your explanation of DTSS above I expect slightly more responsive rear at <0.5G, neutral at 0.5G, and more stable rear at >0.5G when cornering on the limit? With such small toe changes I doubt if I can't feel anything meaningful though. Toe in AC is already quite dynamic (even just stationary you can see the values wobbling on telemetry). I'm also still learning in AC so my confidence and sensitivity when pushing cars to the limit isn't as good as GT6
I drove the AE86 for a few laps at Bathurst on CS, not really pushing it, and did around 2:40s, so yeah, 2:37s is quick
Good news on the Huayra, thanks mate.
GT6 should be slightly quicker as the shift speed and low aero drag on higher speed should make the car reach higher trap speed on high speed braking point - lower lap times, oh, not forgetting the tire heat model in GT6 is out of this world
True, the GT6 aero around corners, braking and accelerating is much better than GT5, the only problem is the drag
Maybe someday there will be sim that can make you feel that the car is tearing through the air, fighting the resistance as wind blows, air pressure variation, and downforce used on the car.
For RX7, I have 3 model replica on finishing touch, series VIII FD RS, Type R and Spirit R Type A, it's amazing how GT6 almost spot on at Tsukuba against real life lap onboard cam ( from shift point, braking point to trap speed on braking ). The power is around 320+PS, which is very close to real car stock dyno figures on optimal condition ( temp and fuel ).
The RX7 Spirit R has all 4 wheel dynamic toe system, so when going through high load G turns, when you let go the gas in sudden fashion and apply sudden light braking, the car would hesitate in tracking the line as the toe in going away, could get loose without warning if the rear gets upset enough by the sudden toe change, as the high slip angle occur and grip lost, the car would slide or oversteered, this is when the dynamic toe will go toe out as the load on the outside is diminishing. This is also the moment when most driver will instinctively to counter steer, a good driver will not over correct, try to follow through. The FD is less abrupt in this situation than the FC, smoother in recovery as well, sometimes applying full gas while correcting works, while the FC could snap without warning. The higher the grip limit of the tire, the more the effect of toe changes can be felt, so in AC if you fit semi slick on RX7 Spirit R, you should feel the outside tire goes toe out/loose when reducing the load on them, the car will still be predictable with no sudden surprises unlike FC RX7.
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- 12,018
- Indianapolis
- BrandonW77
Dude. One of the greatest Canadian inventions ever...the Robertson screw.
I've never heard of it! Looks brilliant! I can't recall ever seeing one down here though.
That's the problem, you are not reading them, it's only page 149 and 151, and you can skip my replica posts
For me, the devil is in the details, not just the execution
Okay this is from page 151, warning lots of quotes but all in order
Thanks for the clarification. Not sure if you already know, but if you right-click the the number in the top-right of the post (see screenshot) you can get the direct link to that post, could eliminate confusion in the future (I did a quick scroll on both of the links you posted but didn't see anything that jumped out as being AC related).
Again, I wasn't trying to be combative, was just trying to clarify since we have a lot of curious eyes on this thread trying to decide if they want to try AC or not. As many of us have stated, from a distance it's easy to point out perceived flaws in AC but once you get behind the wheel most of those "flaws" melt away. I'm not saying everything about AC's driving feel is the most ultra realistic, but it feels very convincing, natural, and pleasing. It manages to be greater than the sum of its parts (with plenty of room for improvement, of course).
Not sure the specs of your computer, but Steam has a return policy so it might be worth giving AC a shot and turning all the graphics bells & whistles down to see if it will run well (even with everything turned to the minimum AC still looks good). I believe you can get a full refund if you've had it less than 14 days and/or played it less than two hours, I'd imagine you'll know within two hours if it's going to run for you or not. The next update is supposed to bring some performance improvements, might be worth giving it a shot after it's released. 👍
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- 27,387
- Toronto
- NewAesthetic
- SlipZtrEm
This is actually what I'm most interested in. I'm really not all too concerned with a game being the absolute final word in realism: I want something realistic, sure, but I'd much rather have something that's slightly less in-depth in terms of simulating all the variables of driving if it means it's actually fun/enjoyable. I also realize that these two things are not necessarily mutually exclusive, either.
If physics were truly the one aspect I valued above all others, I wouldn't be on consoles. I'm fine with admitting I'm looking for something that blends multiple aspects together: the physics are important, but they have to "feel" right too. GT makes a reasonably good fist of it with a wheel. FM6 does well enough (better with a controller than GT6, slightly worse with a wheel). In addition, I'm looking for a game that has a decent amount off offline content for me to play through. An aspect of customization is important: I loved taking a regular car and slowly building it up in GT, and that lives on in FM6. A varied car list is something I want as well. I prefer road cars to race cars, but a mix of both is great.
So far, on consoles, FM6 hits more of what I want, more of the time (though is by no means perfect either). It will be interesting to see how AC contrasts and compares, and if its comparative strengths overcome its comparative weaknesses. Same goes with GT Sport a few months later.
- 12,018
- Indianapolis
- BrandonW77
I think AC fits that niche. It's serious without being too serious. rF2 is too serious (IMO), there's so many things to be aware of when setting up the car and/or driving that I find it a bit overwhelming, and of course finding out all the stuff you need to know requires hours of trawling through internet forums which adds to the overwhelmingness. GT is not quite serious enough and over-simplifies some things. AC is right in the middle, if you like to tweak and adjust you can, or you can just hop in the car and go hooning (it is best to give your tires a lap or two to warm up though).
You'll find AC to be lacking in this area as there really isn't any way to customize your car other than choosing one of the provided liveries. I missed this at first, after a couple days it never crossed my mind again (other than missing parity racing). The car count isn't huge like GT or Forza, but it is quite varied and you get a bit of everything which makes you forget about not having 3,742 versions of Skylines to pick from (oh, and they all have modeled interiors!).
Plenty of good road cars for you to play with, from little FWD Abarths, to lightweight Miatas and Lotussessss, to BMW saloon cars, and even psychopathic murder machines like the Shelby Cobra or Yellowbird.I'm equally curious to see how you guys judge it, if the strengths will outweigh the weaknesses and if the quality of the cars/tracks outweighs the fact that there aren't hundreds to choose from. Some will love it, some will hate it, some will be in the middle. IMO if you're a petrolhead that enjoys driving virtual cars it should be a very worthy addition to your collection and you'll find plenty to enjoy (and criticize). And while the offline portion may not be as in-depth as some other games, it should be enjoyable and there's plenty there to keep you busy for a while. 👍
- 11,660
- GTP_Orido
I was going to link the post, but since there's many of them, rather than multi quote or link each post, I linked the page instead
At least now I multi quoted the whole post that is related to AC for page 151 on that spoiler post.My laptop is ancient, single core with 2GB of RAM and shared VRAM with Intel chip
It's 10 years old now. I'm typing on it.The only option for me is PS4, which I will get eventually, and it will be with controller, not wheel, which is why FFB is irrelevant for me, but more on how the car simulated/physics/handling and technical stuff like turbo, LSD to give distinct feel but realistic to the real car. I can enjoy LFS with my DS2 ( PS2 stick ), hopefully I can do the same with AC. If you read Legend-1 description on how tire felt on AC, being similar to LFS, that gives me confidence. My prime concern as always in accuracy of the cars
simple stuff like power, weight/distribution, suspension/LSD, things that shape the cars and lead to the final experience.Stuff like RX7 FD3S DGCS that being marketed in AC as rear wheel steering also one of the concern, so far I haven't got detailed feedback on how the system perform in AC ( rear wheel steering ) If you read the conversation in page 151 that I multi quoted, I talked about how the system is a suspension design feature that deals with toe in under load on all 4 wheels, not rear wheel steering at all. The system also have been used extensively by Mazda on a range of models like MX5 Miata and RX8. I'm guessing the ND MX5 should also have it. It may be little things that won't matter to some, but I have been waiting for a good game that simulate JDM cars like RX7 and R34 GTR very well in all areas, something that even GT6 have failed ( why I have replica garage ).
BTW, anyone managed to drift the MX5 ND Cup Car ? I wonder how Kunos set the springs
- 12,018
- Indianapolis
- BrandonW77
I was going to link the post, but since there's many of them, rather than multi quote or link each post, I linked the page instead
My laptop is ancient, single core with 2GB of RAM and shared VRAM with Intel chip
The only option for me is PS4, which I will get eventually, and it will be with controller, not wheel, which is why FFB is irrelevant for me, but more on how the car simulated/physics/handling and technical stuff like turbo, LSD to give distinct feel but realistic to the real car. I can enjoy LFS with my DS2 ( PS2 stick ), hopefully I can do the same with AC. If you read Legend-1 description on how tire felt on AC, being similar to LFS, that gives me confidence. My prime concern as always in accuracy of the cars
Stuff like RX7 FD3S DGCS that being marketed in AC as rear wheel steering also one of the concern, so far I haven't got detailed feedback on how the system perform in AC ( rear wheel steering ) If you read the conversation in page 151 that I multi quoted, I talked about how the system is a suspension design feature that deals with toe in under load on all 4 wheels, not rear wheel steering at all. The system also have been used extensively by Mazda on a range of models like MX5 Miata and RX8. I'm guessing the ND MX5 should also have it. It may be little things that won't matter to some, but I have been waiting for a good game that simulate JDM cars like RX7 and R34 GTR very well in all areas, something that even GT6 have failed ( why I have replica garage ).
BTW, anyone managed to drift the MX5 ND Cup Car ? I wonder how Kunos set the springs
Yeah, that might not handle AC too well, if at all. Hopefully you'll eventually get to try it on PS4. As certain tabloid sites have pointed out, if you dig down in the nuts and bolts of AC you might find some things that aren't quite right or don't make sense. But somehow they manage to get a fairly authentic feeling experience despite all that stuff, and for me that's what matters most.
We've known each other a while and I know you have very specific things you want from/enjoy in a game, I'm not sure how much of that AC would provide for you but I still think you could find things to enjoy. I have massive respect for the amount of car knowledge you possess and the time/dedication you pour into making and sharing your replicas. If you're looking for something like that with AC it will let you down on consoles. But if you ever can get a PC good enough to run it I think you could lose many, many, many hours building mod cars. I look forward to the day when I can drive a Ridox car that's the most accurate mod ever made!
- 11,660
- GTP_Orido
Yeah, that might not handle AC too well, if at all. Hopefully you'll eventually get to try it on PS4. As certain tabloid sites have pointed out, if you dig down in the nuts and bolts of AC you might find some things that aren't quite right or don't make sense. But somehow they manage to get a fairly authentic feeling experience despite all that stuff, and for me that's what matters most.
We've known each other a while and I know you have very specific things you want from/enjoy in a game, I'm not sure how much of that AC would provide for you but I still think you could find things to enjoy. I have massive respect for the amount of car knowledge you possess and the time/dedication you pour into making and sharing your replicas. If you're looking for something like that with AC it will let you down on consoles. But if you ever can get a PC good enough to run it I think you could lose many, many, many hours building mod cars. I look forward to the day when I can drive a Ridox car that's the most accurate mod ever made!
Thanks Brandon
It is 100% confirmed that console won't allow mods ? Any preview on PS4 mentioned about clutch use with DS4 ? I'm really interested in how clutch implemented with stick If I have console version, I may make setups for AC, depending on what can be set
I manage okay with Pcars even without owning the game ( I have account at Pcars Database / GTP, some setups were made by me just using real life setup/data -blindly without driving them, one with tester from here )
- 12,018
- Indianapolis
- BrandonW77
Thanks Brandon
If I have console version, I may make setups for AC, depending on what can be set
Not sure if it's confirmed but I've never seen it mentioned and while there are a few exceptions mods are very rare on consoles.
What you can set depends on the car. In real life you can't adjust much on a street car so most of those are limited to things you could adjust in the real world, like camber, toe, air pressure. Vintage race cars have more adjustability, but again it's usually limited to things the actual car could do. On modern race cars you can usually adjust most anything, springs, camber, toe, ride height, aero, gears, etc.
- 3,268
- London
- Mauler_77
Hard to really tell from 5 seconds-at-a-time's worth of in-car footage, but the tearing is unfortunately there for all to see, and herein lies the argument for replays to be in 30fps and not 60. I wonder if the extra memory needed to have the AI using the same physics as the player (which pCARS did not have) means they can't dial the screen tearing out or if it's just their engine. We've seen SMS dial it out almost completely (during races) so I hope Kunos can find a way to do the same.
If not then I'll just have to get used to it, and I'm sure the quality of the tracks and handling model will prevail in the end. Hope to see some onboard race footage uploaded soon.
- 11,660
- GTP_Orido
If Kunos allowed the players to reduce the number of AI cars, that may help with the tearing ? I know for LFS, the AI cars really burden the CPU, I barely can hit 30fps with 3 AI cars, while alone can do close to 60fps
- 3,268
- London
- Mauler_77
I think consoles will only have 16 cars on track in single player so I doubt they'll lower it any more.
With tearing all I want to know is if the devs tried and simply can't get rid of it (for some other game-affecting reason) or whether they just can't work out how to do it. I know Turn 10 have massive funding, but Forza, and even pCARS to a lesser extent, proves that we can have 60fps racers on consoles that look great and are solid. I hope they continue to work on ironing it out.
With tearing all I want to know is if the devs tried and simply can't get rid of it (for some other game-affecting reason) or whether they just can't work out how to do it. I know Turn 10 have massive funding, but Forza, and even pCARS to a lesser extent, proves that we can have 60fps racers on consoles that look great and are solid. I hope they continue to work on ironing it out.
- 11,660
- GTP_Orido
- 3,268
- London
- Mauler_77
Ah yes, misunderstood. That'd be a good idea. Have yet to see what gameplay options there are in the console version, hopefully there's plenty to tinker.
