Assetto Corsa | News and General Discussion

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I've just concluded my JDM pack test drive and my thoughts:

Mazda MX5: Nothing spectacular about it's performance. It's just a fun car to drive, toss it around and it will slide happily, do your lines and it will obey you. It's slow but satisfying. I found it a little bit to sticky. I had to provoke it a lot, but that can be the LSD fitted to that version. (Tested on the Nordschleife)

Mazda MX5 Cup: A real point and shoot car. Point at line, mash the throttle, give it the right input and it goes around the corner with no fuss at all. Abuse it and it bites, and bites hard, on the first corners I wasn't quite prepared and a big snap-off oversteer occured, the cold tires may had something to do with that. You can feel the grip limit, but once over it the car isn't so nice with you. One of my favourite cars of the pack. (Tested on the Nordscheleife)

Mazda RX-7: For me it was the disappointment of the pack. I had very high hopes for it and it didn't fufill them. It felt heavier, had some understeer to it which followed (a quite pleasent actually) oversteer. I expected it to be more neutral with the 4WS. It's certainly predictable but it didn't excite me as it should. The sound was very nice though. (tested on the Nordschleife). The tuned version was more fun, I felt more connected but it can be a bit of an handful, to extract maximum performance you to be very smooth, but it's more direct, fizzier, I liked it (Tested on Algarve)

Nissan 370Z Nismo: A disappointment. At first. Very front heavy, I had to work hard on the clutch and brakes to make it turn in more eagerly, a little whiff of front end understeer during the cornering ment pushing the throttle harder and I since I can't drift it ment loosing the back end easily. (tested @ Algarve) Changed track. The difference was night and day. It was planted, neutral, just wanted to follow lines, point and shoot, very satisfying car, the very best of the pack hands down, it also sounds fantastic. (tested @ Mugello)

Nissan GT-R: Reading reviews here made fear that I would hate one of my favourite cars. Yes that deadzone is awkward, but after that awkwardness? Heaven. Brilliant sound, the handling is superb, very neutral, a bit rear biased actually, toss it around like a hoon and it's just fantastic. What a car. (tested @ Mugello)

Toyota Corolla AE86: FUN. That's I can sum up that car. It's comiclly slow, more that I expected but it's just fun to toss it around, do some silly things with it, learn to drift because there isn't that much grip either. Very good car. The drift version is useless in my hand, so I won't even bother to review it. The tuned version is what I imagined the AE86 would be in the first place. A fairly decent, fun, performance car. doesn't roll that much, I can feel what it's doing at all times, it can feel a bit numb sideways, but I like to keep it straight so I don't bother much with that, although it's very satisfying to correct because it can get very slidy. (tested @ Mugello)

Toyota Supra: I can hardly feel it weighs 1500+kg. Grips way better than I thought it would, it moves better that I thouhgt it would. It's very feelsome, easy to turn in, I cna get on the throttle quite soon, it doesn't bite, it seems it doesn't have a grip limit unless you throw it with everything and do clutch whips or brake releases mid corner. Otherwise it just stays flat and straight. Drift version: same as above. Time attack version has too much front end aero, I like my front ends all loose because I late brake a lot. Other than that it's just the same as the streel version, but with more power. (tested @ Mugello)
 
It is really a shame how console players can live in a bubble sometimes. I used to think that way too, until I branched out and tried PC sims. Heck, even sims from the ISImotor era can put GT to shame with sounds. I can't wait until AC releases on console so everyone can finally understand what is possible in a proper sim.
 
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LeGeNd-1
It is really a shame how console players can live in a bubble sometimes. I used to think that way too, until I branched out and tried PC sims. Heck, even sims from the ISImotor era can put GT to shame with sounds. I can't wait until AC releases on console so everyone can finally understand what is possible with a true sim.
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Precisely in the same boat here. Back when GT5 came out and i finished it in like half a day because it was crazy short compared to GT4 i was pretty annoyed.

Went to go play adventurequest(was all the rage back then) and stumbled across steam and stumbled across Race 07 which was on sale for some ridiculously low price. Now at the start i ignored it but once i discovered modding i gave it a chance. I still had a keyboard at the time so there wasnt much i could do.

AC came around two years later in early 2014 i got it. It was good enough to persuade me to drop £100 on a DFGT its really funny how common that story is for the average assetto corsa player.

I hope kunos can achieve their dream one day which is to have a mod system for console a bit like what fallout 4 does
 
ok i have to say this with some sadness but AC what are you doing?

JDM car pack feels to have some modded cars, not AC cars!

the biggest offenders are the Supra and R34

Supra: has the worst exaggerated boost spool ever....1500rpm lift of and the noise sounds as if it just purged 40psi of boost....at 1500rpm. Plus the physics under acceleration lights the tires on a roll from idle in first gear (pretty strong for 206 kw) in a stock standard car with 90s street tyres?

The r34: I know the 4wd system can be biased to the rear dependent on torque and all that hicas stuff, but i can do brake jobs (line locks, brake stands etc)????? ....its a 4wd car for gods sake!!!!......4wd donuts??, NOPE!

and the sounds of all the cars are beginging to stray from the stock levels and sound like someone de-catted them and strapped a massive cannon. Have they even heard a stock exhaust r34? Is almost sounds like a vacuum cleaner....maybe GT had it right all along :)
 
unv412
ok i have to say this with some sadness but AC what are you doing?

JDM car pack feels to have some modded cars, not AC cars!

the biggest offenders are the Supra and R34

Supra: has the worst exaggerated boost spool ever....1500rpm lift of and the noise sounds as if it just purged 40psi of boost....at 1500rpm. Plus the physics under acceleration lights the tires on a roll from idle in first gear (pretty strong for 206 kw) in a stock standard car with 90s street tyres?

The r34: I know the 4wd system can be biased to the rear dependent on torque and all that hicas stuff, but i can do brake jobs (line locks, brake stands etc)????? ....its a 4wd car for gods sake!!!!......4wd donuts??, NOPE!

and the sounds of all the cars are beginging to stray from the stock levels and sound like someone de-catted them and strapped a massive cannon. Have they even heard a stock exhaust r34? Is almost sounds like a vacuum cleaner....maybe GT had it right all along :)
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When I first heard the sounds on the stock cars I must say I had the same thought, that they were too exaggerated and based upon modified vehicles. But I think I can understand why they did this, it adds excitement and character to the cars, and these cars are iconic to a large AC audience. There is a culture behind these cars and that culture is loud exhausts and blow off valves.

I like the sounds in the pack as they are (although I agree the Supra's turbo sounds when set to maximum boost are pretty over the top haha).

I haven't driven the GT-R for very long yet, it's not really my cup of tea, so can't comment on the physics of that. I've done a few laps in the RX7 and Supra though and I think, at speed at least, they feel really good.

The visuals of the mod converted cars are coping a bit of abuse though. And I can see why to be honest, the AE86 does look off and the details of the GT-R aren't as high quality as the Kunos stuff. I think if Kunos want to keep their excellent name for quality then they should really ensure every bit of content they make is as accurate and well made as possible. Let other games do the whole multi tiered approach to quality of content. You don't want there to be a noticeable gap between cars made by Kunos and mod cars taken over by Kunos. If it is official content it should be Kunos standard.

I do like this pack though, don't get me wrong.
 
Punknoodle
When I first heard the sounds on the stock cars I must say I had the same thought, that they were too exaggerated and based upon modified vehicles. But I think I can understand why they did this, it adds excitement and character to the cars, and these cars are iconic to a large AC audience. There is a culture behind these cars and that culture is loud exhausts and blow off valves.

I like the sounds in the pack as they are (although I agree the Supra's turbo sounds when set to maximum boost are pretty over the top haha).

I haven't driven the GT-R for very long yet, it's not really my cup of tea, so can't comment on the physics of that. I've done a few laps in the RX7 and Supra though and I think, at speed at least, they feel really good.

The visuals of the mod converted cars are coping a bit of abuse though. And I can see why to be honest, the AE86 does look off and the details of the GT-R aren't as high quality as the Kunos stuff. I think if Kunos want to keep their excellent name for quality then they should really ensure every bit of content they make is as accurate and well made as possible. Let other games do the whole multi tiered approach to quality of content. You don't want there to be a noticeable gap between cars made by Kunos and mod cars taken over by Kunos. If it is official content it should be Kunos standard.

I do like this pack though, don't get me wrong.
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I'm really interested to hear your impression on the R34 GTR :) Like hard launch, can it burnout and donuts, skid pad drift :sly:
 
regarding the sounds they made a comment on the comment about it on the forums. Apparently they had problems as you couldnt find a car in italy which doesnt have modifications to it. There is a very cheap mod which is a bit like a restrictor removable. I'm not an expert and i cant remember the words precisely. They also said they should sound a lot more tame then they do.

Remember devs arent allowed to yank things off youtube as its not their property so its a little hard for them, not an excuse but thats the sad reality.
 
I know im asking to much but......dont they know anyone in the whole of EU (eg car club) that has access to a stocker, send there audio guy to the dyno with said Standard car , record a couple of pulls, and back home when weekend is over? Hell even send the audio gear to Japan and do the same, with a fan or contact there, tell them how to set it up and....press record.
 
unv412
I know im asking to much but......dont they know anyone in the whole of EU (eg car club) that has access to a stocker, send there audio guy to the dyno with said Standard car , record a couple of pulls, and back home when weekend is over? Hell even send the audio gear to Japan and do the same, with a fan or contact there, tell them how to set it up and....press record.
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I don't think that easy to get a hold of the car in stock form, for BOV, can ask the owner to revert it to stock, but exhaust, that is big job even if still has the stock exhaust.

About the R34, you said brake stand, as in doing burnout ?
 
yes, as in doing burnouts. On 90s tyres after doing donuts (that are totally rwd) you can mash the brake pedal and it sits there doing a burnout on the spot. On hard launch it acts 4wd but only if the tyes arnt hot, drift around for a lap and then launch it will act like a rwd car again (smoking the rears for 50 meters). AC has had some inconsistant low speed physics for 4wd cars since its inception with 4wd systems reverting to FWD or rwd during donuts and drifting. its a tough one to get right because the systems vary from the WRX style understeery asimetrical type to the 911 turbo RWD type (computer seems to cut front wheels during donuts) and the GTR somewhere between.

top gear style:


erratic FWD-RWD-AWD engagement style:


all hooked up properly style:
 
unv412
yes, as in doing burnouts. On 90s tyres after doing donuts (that are totally rwd) you can mash the brake pedal and it sits there doing a burnout on the spot. On hard launch it acts 4wd but only if the tyes arnt hot, drift around for a lap and then launch it will act like a rwd car again (smoking the rears for 50 meters). AC has had some inconsistant low speed physics for 4wd cars since its inception with 4wd systems reverting to FWD or rwd during donuts and drifting. its a tough one to get right because the systems vary from the WRX style understeery asimetrical type to the 911 turbo RWD type (computer seems to cut front wheels during donuts) and the GTR somewhere between.

top gear style:


erratic FWD-RWD-AWD engagement style:


all hooked up properly style:
Click to expand...



:( Seems like ATTESA/ETS is not simulated properly, the PRO + A-LSD part I doubt simulated at all. That's real shame on the R34 GTR, I had high hopes Kunos can get it right, just hope when it hit console, there will be fixes along the way.

Doing donuts like that is easier with wet surface :lol: circling in one spot :P
 
don't get me wrong, the R34 still has the sensation of the front tyres helping pull you out of the apex in the medium to fast stuff, but i get a bouncy/bucking/bobbing sensation akin to it being on a slick tyre with full hard suspension. Maybe my memory is a little clouded with the passing of time but i seem to remember Enthusia and even FM4 did 4WD better.
 
I thought it was a "Known Issue" that 4WD/AWD needs considerable work in Assetto Corsa? I know there have been some improvements in recent versions - but perhaps I'm mistaken.
 
unv412
don't get me wrong, the R34 still has the sensation of the front tyres helping pull you out of the apex in the medium to fast stuff, but i get a bouncy/bucking/bobbing sensation akin to it being on a slick tyre with full hard suspension. Maybe my memory is a little clouded with the passing of time but i seem to remember Enthusia and even FM4 did 4WD better.
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ALB123
I thought it was a "Known Issue" that 4WD/AWD needs considerable work in Assetto Corsa? I know there have been some improvements in recent versions - but perhaps I'm mistaken.
Click to expand...


ATTESA/ETS is already complex system, the PRO complicate things more, it's hard to simulate all aspect.

The system can send torque to front wheel when needed, that is when certain condition occur, like when rear wheels speed is higher by 5% than front. Then it works by using G sensors and ABS sensor, monitoring these and adjust the amount of torque at very rapid rate per second.
With the PRO, like fitted on Vspec R34 GTR, can split the torque between each rear wheels as well, not just front and rear. The rear is also fitted with active LSD ( electronically controlled ). This is one of the reason Vspec R34 can drift with rear outside wheel smoking ( gets more torque ) as demonstrated by Dori Dori / Keiichi Tsuchiya in his review on touge roads.

There is also one unique traits of GTR, flat shifting to 2nd from 1st could spin the rear wheels for only split second, making chirping/skidding sound from rear tires as that instant the ATTESA/ETS sends torque to the front. The driver would feel the car jumped like AWD launch :P

The ATTESA/ETS system diagram / hardware :

BNR34.jpg
 
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Ridox2JZGTE
ATTESA/ETS is already complex system, the PRO complicate things more, it's hard to simulate all aspect.

The system can send torque to front wheel when needed, that is when certain condition occur, like when rear wheels speed is higher by 5% than front. Then it works by using G sensors and ABS sensor, monitoring these and adjust the amount of torque at very rapid rate per second.
With the PRO, like fitted on Vspec R34 GTR, can split the torque between each rear wheels as well, not just front and rear. The rear is also fitted with active LSD ( electronically controlled ). This is one of the reason Vspec R34 can drift with rear outside wheel smoking ( gets more torque ) as demonstrated by Dori Dori / Keiichi Tsuchiya in his review on touge roads.

There is also one unique traits of GTR, flat shifting to 2nd from 1st could spin the rear wheels for only split second, making chirping/skidding sound from rear tires as that instant the ATTESA/ETS sends torque to the front. The driver would feel the car jumped like AWD launch :P

The ATTESA/ETS system diagram / hardware :

View attachment 549381
Click to expand...
I could be wrong but I highly doubt Kunos is going to that level of simulation for one drivetrain on one car.
 
Johnnypenso
I could be wrong but I highly doubt Kunos is going to that level of simulation for one drivetrain on one car.
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Well, the model can also be adapted to Lancer Evo AYC with some little changes or any other AWD system cars with torque vectoring/split system. Just need to get the basics right, the torque sending routine, how much, when and where etc.Its hard to do without manufacturer data.

Basic model like in GT5/6 R32/33/34 GTR ATTESA may be enough, maybe with more details, like clutch/driveline physics improved and rear side to side torque split ( better LSD physics ) The calibration/behavior in GT6 R32/33/34 GTR also off, the R32 should be more oversteer oriented and less performance ( lower rate of change ), on slow speed corner, the ATTESA should have been more rear biased in torque split to reduce understeer, and adjust accordingly on higher speed, depending on lateral load and driver throttle/steering input. GT6 seems to have one fits all for all GTR, and it pushes naturally, which is bad, and tire model do not help, the R32 needs rear CM/ front CS for example. The Lancer AYC on the other can be adjusted, and works well enough IMO.

The Gr A R32 GTR have 4 preset switchable ATTESA routine, each can be tailored for specific purpose or condition like rain, dry, different tire size/stagger etc. But this is real race cars application.

Some example of AWD design data to show how complicated it can be :

TorqueVectoring.JPG



Yaw.JPG


AWDModel.JPG
 
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Johnnypenso
I could be wrong but I highly doubt Kunos is going to that level of simulation for one drivetrain on one car.
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Yeah. I agree, Johnnypenso. I'm sure that would be a fairly sophisticated system to code. Then test, tweak, test, tweak, etc... Kunos doesn't have that kind of man power to implement something like that. I'm sure they have generic AWD code, with variables to adjust the amount of torque sent to the front or rear tires. Of course, this is all just speculation on my part.

I'm sure that in time PC sims will eventually be able to implement features like what Ridox mentioned, but I'm sure that's quite low on the priority list. Frankly, I think that's perfectly fine as there are many more important things to implement or optimize.
 
This got me thinking about the McLaren with no anti-roll bars, brake steer, etc... And also Kunos' simulation of the different TC and ABS levels available on all of these cars and how they really work (e.g. the 458 Italia is a good example).

Plus the hybrid powertrains, battery charge levels, DRS, KERS, etc... Oh, and the rear wheel steering on a couple of these JDM cars, of course.


So many little details to simulate. I certainly wouldn't blame Kunos for making an approximation which performs realistically under most conditions.
 
I think it's rather unfair to not implement a car to it's full extent. If you're going to add a car in a simulator, the car should be an accurate simulation and representation of what was modelled. While it's a hard ask with a limited amount of resources and man power, but I'd rather wait for an entirely accurate representation rather than something I can't vouch for being the genuine car. It's the same with modelling, really - if we were having accuracy issues and poor modelling, is it really any different waiting for an extended time for an accurate model instead of a model that's 'mostly correct'?

Not to mention, having an entirely accurate R34 would be a massive selling point - it would be in the only one in existence, and therefore a great selling point for enthusiasts of Skylines.
 
SVX
I think it's rather unfair to not implement a car to it's full extent. If you're going to add a car in a simulator, the car should be an accurate simulation and representation of what was modelled. While it's a hard ask with a limited amount of resources and man power, but I'd rather wait for an entirely accurate representation rather than something I can't vouch for being the genuine car. It's the same with modelling, really - if we were having accuracy issues and poor modelling, is it really any different waiting for an extended time for an accurate model instead of a model that's 'mostly correct'?

Not to mention, having an entirely accurate R34 would be a massive selling point - it would be in the only one in existence, and therefore a great selling point for enthusiasts of Skylines.
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You can blame nissan as much as kunos. Kunos dont get to control how much information they get, they have a large request list for information but they dont always get everything and there isnt much they can do about that at times.

On the cutting edge we have the huayra in which the raw code from the car is in assetto corsa on the other hand there is the AE86, its an older car so chances are there arent original cad files for the car's appearance, they likely dont get telemetry of it unless they consult an owner which would still not be accurate as its not tested in a controlled environment.

Think about the Lotus 49, there is pretty much nothing you can use, whether they like it or not there isnt much they can do to record the tyres of those days. there are things which were legal then which are illegal now. What if kunos wants to run a car that uses ethanol as fuel, they cant do that in Italy, its illegal.

Its a sad reality check, kunos is the closest it has got but sadly there isnt much that can be done, a lot of records were lost, no one thought oh we need to keep these resources of our toyota corolla or abarth 595ss etc because a sim will require them one day.

---------------------------------------

Ironically the manufacturer with the most documentation on their old race cars and road cars is Porsche. And well, i dont need to explain how much of a shame that is.


To end on a slightly better note we get close, not perfect but close and for the majority of the cars its close enough for a lot of people.
 

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