Assetto Corsa PC Mods General DiscussionPC

[Turnup]

What is it about Flight Simming pricing that makes it different from Motorsport Simming? Are aircraft mods more complex?

Yes - more complex. Or very more complex, if this big aircraft

Free?
(Sorry - couldn't resist...)

The author probably understands nothing in business
Or just loves in what is engaged.
Maud very good. It is the beta, still crude, but even in such look is the best version of historical Nordshleife from all that existed in simulators.

 

[JacquesBrel]

What is it about Flight Simming pricing that makes it different from Motorsport Simming? Are aircraft mods more complex?

A few are quite a lot more complex. The likes of PMDG and A2A recreate every single little knob and switch in their aircraft mods so you can click and interact with almost everything in the cockpit. Every electrical switch and every circuit breaker is an interactive part of the aircraft system. The systems are simulated to an extent where you can read the aircraft manufacturers' handbook and follow nearly all its procedures step by step and switch by switch in the simulator. That certainly takes a bit more work than even the best RSS mods.

Sometimes I would love if F1 and GT mods also had fully interactive cockpits and wheel buttons. Although I'd probably just spend hours sitting in the pit flicking switches and going "Ooo! Aaar!"...

 

[Badgerman]

I always wonder why selling a single Flight Sim Aircraft Mod for US$39.-$99. has been an accepted practice and has been successful for decades. Is there a demographic that happily pays that amount for Motorsport Mods that we don't know about? Is it fair to say that they got scammed? I have seen little opposition for charging that much for aircraft on the Flight Sim forums. What is it about Flight Simming pricing that makes it different from Motorsport Simming? Are aircraft mods more complex? Are they built from scratch more often? So is originality the primary issue? Is the Flight Sim Customer older and has more disposable income? It's a fascinating comparison that I have never understood.

I remember seeing the results of a survey on AVSIM years ago. The results at that time was that the average flight simmer was older (mid 40's and up) and also tended to have significant income. That may go some way to explaining the price disparity between the genres. But I have to admit, when I'm expected to pay 50 buck plus for a single aircraft, it had better be special. Many of the respected brands are charging more than that for simple, single engine training planes these days, which is a full on ripoff, at least in my opinion. But it's a double edged sword - we tend to expect extreme levels of detail and performance today, where in the past there were many more mid to low level models. So in the end, the industry is charging what they believe the market will bare, and then of course their production costs have gone up markedly with the extended development periods.

The flight sim community also doesn't seem to be as hung up on copyright issues the way car sims are. Very few products bother with licensing fees, and the manufacturers haven't really been noted hunting down companies for releasing software versions of their real world products. And nobody's ever heard of an Airline asking for a skin to be removed because they didn't authorize the replica.

It's actually a strange comparison; the flight sim world seems much more controlled and run on traditional business levels. The car world seems much more wild west mentality, but with with a strange moralistic bent towards copyright infringement!

 

[civicgsir]

with a strange moralistic bent towards copyright infringement!

I don't know anything, but that seems to come from some wanting, if not demanding compensation for the tweaking of the mod.

 

[fast2ghl]

I always wonder why selling a single Flight Sim Aircraft Mod for US$39.-$99. has been an accepted practice and has been successful for decades. Is there a demographic that happily pays that amount for Motorsport Mods that we don't know about? Is it fair to say that they got scammed? I have seen little opposition for charging that much for aircraft on the Flight Sim forums. What is it about Flight Simming pricing that makes it different from Motorsport Simming? Are aircraft mods more complex? Are they built from scratch more often? So is originality the primary issue? Is the Flight Sim Customer older and has more disposable income? It's a fascinating comparison that I have never understood.

Yeah as mentioned above, the aircraft in general are a little more complicated to replicate. And the Flight Sim community is a little older with more income on average. I've also played Flight Sim for years but I was quite a bit younger when I started and couldn't afford the paid mods, I was always plenty happy with the free stuff thou!

Its also just the fact that some of the aforementioned mod teams/company's (specifically RTM and the like) are charging money for what really.... isn't their original work. They are more often than not rips of models from other games. And I understand the time involved to convert is significant in some cases, end of the day you're still charging money for something you essentially stole from another developer. People have a problem paying for that and I understand that. I'm not really one of them as I mentioned before but I get it. The Flight Sim world doesn't really have that luxury as often since there aren't a hell of a lot of games that have planes in them to begin with, especially not with the detail needed for flight sim.

It is interesting thou the difference between the two sim worlds for sure.

 

[Number R09]

it will not be deleted, bc two versions of the same track with different features are not the same, sure bring on what you got

I've always tried to use the most accurate version of a given track. At one point I had two Le Mans, GTP pretty much agreed the version nobody released, the version you shared, was a better version, so it is the version I exclusively use. I also had three Maple Valley tracks for a time, only used two, and now there is a pretty good one out so those three are gone and I'm down to one.

Thanks for sharing.

 

[KJRacing81]

Legion has a vintage nordschleife also, not noticed it before so apologies if it's not new.

 

[civicgsir]

I'm not even sure what yours is.

Victim Inc.

 

[Badgerman]

I don't know anything, but that seems to come from some wanting, if not demanding compensation for the tweaking of the mod.

It's also a widely differing position on International copyright laws. On flight sim boards you often find actual lawyers responding why this or that isn't an infringement. In our car sims it seems everybody thinks you need a license for everything, otherwise it's "illegal". In most cases it isn't, but everybody screams that it is anyway. There is one major manufacturer who has a reputation for chasing down even freeware airccraft models for infringement reasons, but their lawyers claim it's because they're "protecting our image" vs a problem with having digital copies of their product available.

The ripped content is the major difference, but as you said, not exactly many flight sims to rip models from anyway. I used to get excited and amazed at the variety of cars available, only after time I realised that most games had the same model that was ripped from one or another. A real learning curve for me it was!

 

[Electroforce]

Victim Inc.

To be fair to Sim Traxx, it was $15 for a 6 month subscription to their BETA tracks...it was a ton of content for $15 and I feel that I got my moneys worth. I received all 6 news letters as promised. I don't think us beta testers were buying into or could expect any finished product could we?

 

[Electroforce]

ACP City

brings up an error code but just click ok

 

[safi hellie]

It's also a widely differing position on International copyright laws. On flight sim boards you often find actual lawyers responding why this or that isn't an infringement. In our car sims it seems everybody thinks you need a license for everything, otherwise it's "illegal". In most cases it isn't, but everybody screams that it is anyway. There is one major manufacturer who has a reputation for chasing down even freeware airccraft models for infringement reasons, but their lawyers claim it's because they're "protecting our image" vs a problem with having digital copies of their product available.

The ripped content is the major difference, but as you said, not exactly many flight sims to rip models from anyway. I used to get excited and amazed at the variety of cars available, only after time I realised that most games had the same model that was ripped from one or another. A real learning curve for me it was!

Take that guy on here who few pages back reported all of Gladbeckers mods on RD because of a car link in the skins folder..... I dable in flight sims and use the main big sites for downloads and have never come across that type of back stabbing before.
The sim community is toxic in places and that is also in the modding 'scene'.
The type who follow sim racing seem to be more focused on drama and the types who would get involved in gamergate and think females shouldn't be apart of simracing....where as the flight sim scene is happy for females like myself to be involved in it..

What am tentatively getting at is...the sim community is quite immature in comparison to the flightsim scene..IMO..
Also less Russians in flight simming...

Oh and edit to add...here's a test...anymore girls here?

 

[fast2ghl]

Take that guy on here who few pages back reported all of Gladbeckers mods on RD because of a car link in the skins folder..... I dable in flight sims and use the main big sites for downloads and have never come across that type of back stabbing before.
The sim community is toxic in places and that is also in the modding 'scene'.
The type who follow sim racing seem to be more focused on drama and the types who would get involved in gamergate and think females shouldn't be apart of simracing....where as the flight sim scene is happy for females like myself to be involved in it..

What am tentatively getting at is...the sim community is quite immature in comparison to the flightsim scene..IMO..
Also less Russians in flight simming...

Oh and edit to add...here's a test...anymore girls here?

On no. She said the target keyword. "Russians" - assassination forthcoming.

 

[Masscot]

To be fair to Sim Traxx, it was $15 for a 6 month subscription to their BETA tracks...it was a ton of content for $15 and I feel that I got my moneys worth. I received all 6 news letters as promised. I don't think us beta testers were buying into or could expect any finished product could we?

Wasn't it the case though that beta testers who paid would get updates all the way up to (and including) the finished release? So there was always a carrot dangling?

I might be wrong but that was my understanding.

 

[BrandonW77]

I remember seeing the results of a survey on AVSIM years ago. The results at that time was that the average flight simmer was older (mid 40's and up) and also tended to have significant income. That may go some way to explaining the price disparity between the genres. But I have to admit, when I'm expected to pay 50 buck plus for a single aircraft, it had better be special. Many of the respected brands are charging more than that for simple, single engine training planes these days, which is a full on ripoff, at least in my opinion. But it's a double edged sword - we tend to expect extreme levels of detail and performance today, where in the past there were many more mid to low level models. So in the end, the industry is charging what they believe the market will bare, and then of course their production costs have gone up markedly with the extended development periods.

The flight sim community also doesn't seem to be as hung up on copyright issues the way car sims are. Very few products bother with licensing fees, and the manufacturers haven't really been noted hunting down companies for releasing software versions of their real world products. And nobody's ever heard of an Airline asking for a skin to be removed because they didn't authorize the replica.

It's actually a strange comparison; the flight sim world seems much more controlled and run on traditional business levels. The car world seems much more wild west mentality, but with with a strange moralistic bent towards copyright infringement!

Interesting. That's always been my impression of why flight sim mods can sell for more. Most people I've known that were big into the flight sim stuff have typical been quite a bit older than your average sim racer, which typically means more disposable income and less entitled attitudes. Dropping $50 on a plane to them is probably akin to us dropping a finski on a car or track.

 

[Badgerman]

Take that guy on here who few pages back reported all of Gladbeckers mods on RD because of a car link in the skins folder..... I dable in flight sims and use the main big sites for downloads and have never come across that type of back stabbing before.
The sim community is toxic in places and that is also in the modding 'scene'.
The type who follow sim racing seem to be more focused on drama and the types who would get involved in gamergate and think females shouldn't be apart of simracing....where as the flight sim scene is happy for females like myself to be involved in it..

What am tentatively getting at is...the sim community is quite immature in comparison to the flightsim scene..IMO..
Also less Russians in flight simming...

Oh and edit to add...here's a test...anymore girls here?

...And that's why this place is much nicer than most. That attack against Gladbecker was just bizarre, and totally unnecessary. Thanks to the Mods here every day, they keep us all on the straight and narrow. If you think car sims forums have a toxic atmosphere, go take a look at the forums for ATS/ETS2 (the trucking games). They're one step removed from purgatory!

 

[Cote Dazur]

What is it about Flight Simming pricing that makes it different from Motorsport Simming?

Airplanes are (usually) much more expensive than cars IRL.

 

[Electroforce]

Wasn't it the case though that beta testers who paid would get updates all the way up to (and including) the finished release? So there was always a carrot dangling?

I might be wrong but that was my understanding.

There might have been to keep the subscriptions going on their original blog but I can't remember.

The emails with the attached news letter went like this:

Spoiler: news letter example

Hi,sending SIM TRAXX NEWSLETTER 06/2018
It includes newest updates to:

BRASOV DN1E (ROMANIA) / v1.0 RC6
SEMETIN (CZECH REPUBLIC) / v1.0 RC1
PEYREGROSSE (FRANCE) / v1.0 RC1


KORMORAN GRAVEL RALLY (POLAND) / v1.0 RC1






HAGUENAU (FRANCE) / v1.0 RC1





PUY DU LAC (FRANCE) / v1.0 RC1





HONDARRIBIA (BASQUE COUNTRY,SPAIN) / v1.0 RC1


VERSME GRAVEL CIRCUIT (LITHUANIA)/ v1.0 RC1


LOCH ARD (SCOTLAND)/ v1.0 RC1


66th RALLY POLAND: SHAKEDOWN / v1.0 RC1


KAROWA STREET SHOW (POLAND) / v1.0 RC1


TRANSFAGARASAN / DN7C (ROMANIA) / v0.9


SORICA (SLOVENIA) / v0.9


PRIBRAM RALLY (CZECH REPUBLIC) / v0.9


TRIESTE (ITALY) / v0.8

MAGNOLIA STREET SHOW / RALLY & CIRCUIT RACING (POLAND) / vA12





PS. We are now working on our new website with SIM TRAXX store which should be ready by July 2018. Everyone will be able to buy laserscanned tracks DLC to various simulations and SIM TRAXX memberships that will grant early access to all beta content and a big discount on buying laserscanned v1.0s. We will also soon have SIM TRAXX racing gloves, t-shirts, analogue handbrakes and more stuff related to simracing. There will be also a forum where SIM TRAXX members will be able to login and download all newest updates as soon as they arrive.

Thanks for believing in us! And stay safe on the road, always!

PS2. Remember that in order to download tracks You must open PDF newsletter and click on a track screenshot You want to download.

Soon more updates! Thanks for patience!

Oh boy I finally went to their website and now it looks like the same news letter is divided into two parts at €24.00 each! Wow

Is this a joke?

SIM TRAXX FOREVER / ULTIMATE MEMBERSHIP
€888.88

SIM TRAXX ULTIMATE MEMBERSHIP (1year)
€98.40

AC TRAXX SIM TRAXX MEMBERSHIP (1year)
€49.90

 

[P1ButtPlug]

To be fair to Sim Traxx, it was $15 for a 6 month subscription to their BETA tracks...it was a ton of content for $15 and I feel that I got my moneys worth. I received all 6 news letters as promised. I don't think us beta testers were buying into or could expect any finished product could we?

This is the con job that he does. Pay up front for beta garbage that never gets finished. Its like a kick starter package but in the end, he gets alll the money up front (that he says he uses to further his 'company') but in the end, nothing ever gets done and then he has a million excusses as to why. I've witnessed it to many times to count.

Sure he might finish a track, its something to fall back on. But in the end, the entire AC community knows of his shady practices and its well documented in many places throughout the community, the biggest - Race Department. And he says he makes almost $3,000 a month selling tracks. If, IF that were true, that proves he's just taking money and never finishing or delivering anything (and again, "heres one track, heres your bone, back off"). Do you know how many years or months these betas just lay dead and dormant?

He's personally told me about a specific track that would be finished next month. Then another month, than a few months, then, well were restructuring now that we have revenue, give me a couple more months. We had to build all new PC's in a needed upgrade, a few more months. Over, over, over and over again.

If he was a legit company, any body could take him to court (if this had more value, no not for a $3 track) and it would be a slam dunk deal, the clients attorney would barely have to put in any work, its all been done by Konrad.

 

[Clubber_Lang]

Take that guy on here who few pages back reported all of Gladbeckers mods on RD because of a car link in the skins folder..... I dable in flight sims and use the main big sites for downloads and have never come across that type of back stabbing before.
The sim community is toxic in places and that is also in the modding 'scene'.
The type who follow sim racing seem to be more focused on drama and the types who would get involved in gamergate and think females shouldn't be apart of simracing....where as the flight sim scene is happy for females like myself to be involved in it..

What am tentatively getting at is...the sim community is quite immature in comparison to the flightsim scene..IMO..
Also less Russians in flight simming...

Oh and edit to add...here's a test...anymore girls here?

In my real world experience in racing / riding MX most of my life , in the early days you didn't see many women in my sport. I have always enjoyed having them in my sport , and have quite a few female rider / racer friends , and think it's awesome! It does not matter what color your skin is or if you're a dude or a chick........once you have the helmet on , they are a fellow MX rider , just like I am. Sim racing is no different......more variety , the better!

 

[Electroforce]

This is the con job that he does. Pay up front for beta garbage that never gets finished. Its like a kick starter package but in the end, he gets alll the money up front (that he says he uses to further his 'company') but in the end, nothing ever gets done and then he has a million excusses as to why. I've witnessed it to many times to count.

Sure he might finish a track, its something to fall back on. But in the end, the entire AC community knows of his shady practices and its well documented in many places throughout the community, the biggest - Race Department. And he says he makes almost $3,000 a month selling tracks. If, IF that were true, that proves he's just taking money and never finishing or delivering anything (and again, "heres one track, heres your bone, back off"). Do you know how many years or months these betas just lay dead and dormant?

He's personally told me about a specific track that would be finished next month. Then another month, than a few months, then, well were restructuring now that we have revenue, give me a couple more months. We had to build all new PC's in a needed upgrade, a few more months. Over, over, over and over again.

If he was a legit company, any body could take him to court (if this had more value, no not for a $3 track) and it would be a slam dunk deal, the clients attorney would barely have to put in any work, its all been done by Konor.

I look at it as I donated to his cause and got some playable content for it but now after visiting his website I see that us early supporters were pretty much abandoned for this:

From the last news letter email...

PS. We will be soon opening our new website and SIM TRAXX STORE:

There will be also an option to buy or upgrade to ULTIMATE SIM TRAXX MEMBERSHIP that will allow for daily access to all updates to all tracks to all simulations (access to internal SIM TRAXX Discord channels and availability of downloading track files after signing on NDA - Non Disclosure Agreement ) .

Thanks! And stay on the road!

The thanks we got was Hey come to my store and sign a NDA agreement then you can buy the same tracks individually or buy an even more expensive membership of pretty much the same tracks you already have. 👎

I don't really see any difference between the news letter tracks and what's on the website, as there is no information, version number or anything) besides two tracks getting a NAME change...

 

[Badgerman]

In my real world experience in racing / riding MX most of my life , in the early days you didn't see many women in my sport. I have always enjoyed having them in my sport , and have quite a few female rider / racer friends , and think it's awesome! It does not matter what color your skin is or if you're a dude or a chick........once you have the helmet on , they are a fellow MX rider , just like I am. Sim racing is no different......more variety , the better!

Agreed. We're all here because we like car games... it doesn't make any difference to me if I get beaten on a track by a woman or a man... I KNOW I'm slow!

 

[Electroforce]

Take that guy on here who few pages back reported all of Gladbeckers mods on RD because of a car link in the skins folder..... I dable in flight sims and use the main big sites for downloads and have never come across that type of back stabbing before.
The sim community is toxic in places and that is also in the modding 'scene'.
The type who follow sim racing seem to be more focused on drama and the types who would get involved in gamergate and think females shouldn't be apart of simracing....where as the flight sim scene is happy for females like myself to be involved in it..

What am tentatively getting at is...the sim community is quite immature in comparison to the flightsim scene..IMO..
Also less Russians in flight simming...


/QUOTE]

 

[Zwiss]

I made the track description a while ago:
https://www.racedepartment.com/downloads/corner-names-track-description.13487/



Here's a better version of Phillip Island.
But for some reason it's very heavy on my system (triples). I get barely around 70fps alone on track and it seems to stutter a bit. It needs optimising.

http://www.mediafire.com/file/ca3ou6qtd2txw6s/phillip_island.rar/file

That's the Terra21 version.
Anyone have a clue about it's origin?
It really needs some optimization indeed.
I could give it a go, if permitted.

 

[Zin5ki]

My first attempt in making liveries.
I missed some good jobs for Diablo GTR, therefore I decided to make a package of various liveries for the lambo edited by Assettogarage from August 3rd.
I still have some issues probably coming from the learning stage like mirrored clarion logo on door mirrors since in the template there is only one of them.
I think once I'm sure it's perfect, I will be releasing this skin. I hope you'll enjoy it and if you have any suggestions for any future liveries you would like to get, feel free to introduce them.

Assuming that they still work with the latest release of the mod, you can add these older Diablo skins to your package if you wish.

 

[Fanapryde]

That's the Terra21 version.
Anyone have a clue about it's origin?
It really needs some optimization indeed.
I could give it a go, if permitted.

I found that track on the V8SC (Aussie) site. No further info available...

 

[Ruhisu]

Assuming that they still work with the latest release of the mod, you can add these older Diablo skins to your package if you wish.

Thanks for those. I will check them out. I am planning to add also some skins like this one https://www.google.com/search?q=lam...AUIESgB&biw=1536&bih=775#imgrc=1nqRI05edOV84M: as soon as I learn how to skin propperly, howaver I think this one would be more appropriate to the Diablo JOTA, but that car has different rear wing.

 

[P1ButtPlug]

That's the Terra21 version.
Anyone have a clue about it's origin?
It really needs some optimization indeed.
I could give it a go, if permitted.

Did you know philip island has a nice hot tub in the middle? To bad you can't see it from the track.

 

[hal4000]

Pls delete.

 

[Ruhisu]

@Fanapryde - I just checked and they don't work with non of the GTR mod I used so I will try to adapt them manually to the car I am working on as a practise.

For now the biggest problem is adapting the rim color. When I tried, only front left and right rear rims were painted.