Great info, and I always appreciate your perspective. But:Hey, this I'd have to disagree with almost completely. There's an issue with how KS load curves produce grip, although that's generally towards *oversteer*, not understeer, and aerodynamic forces simply produce too much grip at high loads. There is however nothing like how you're describing.
Most of the time this "no lift-off oversteer" thing is due to an incorrectly made car. Every correctly made car I've made to now isn't devoid of lift off oversteer, on the contrary all of the ones with any issues have too much. Although that's a more complicated issue.
Almost every RWD car is designed to understeer if you're on the front lateral limit and lift off, and almost all of them will attempt to do that. Roadcars, racecars, whatever. The reason is generally in RWD cars so that you can accelerate efficiently, not being on the limit of the rear tires when you stop trailbraking and start accelerating.
IRL you will get oversteer generally due to scrubbing speed and slowing down, then the fronts will grip up. Or if you're somewhat under the limit of the fronts and give them a bit of a push while unloading the rears: generally you will get oversteer. Some cars just have a natural tendency for oversteer, like the S13 Silvia and R32 GT-R with their quite high rear roll distribution compared to the front and tons of anti-squat.
It's also possible for engine braking torques to overload the rears in a RWD car, so if the front slip is not excessively high and the inside rear tire has enough contact with the ground, it could attempt to lock up and cause a yawing motion. If the inside's in the air, and you either have a very weak or very strong diff and you have a lot of front roll stiffness, I suspect it'd be possible for handling to not actually change so much as you'd expect it to!
It's very likely if you open the suspensions app or something else that shows slip, that you're simply a few degrees over the slip limit of the fronts when you lift off, and it's not sufficient to cause a yawing motion. Or the car you're driving is a bit badly made or doesn't mesh well at all with the KS load curves ie: the Elises.
Don't be fooled, some cars simply won't rotate significantly no matter what unless you really aggressively throw it in. Trailbraking just won't do it, nor will lifting. It'll happen when you have 100mm+ wider rears, way wider rear track, rear engine, lots of front roll stiffness etc. You know, like old racing 911s.
Fun anecdote: Look at the old RSR 911s and compare them to the Turbo which has even wider rear track and more rear tire. The RSRs lift the inside front in corners, while the Turbo has extremely low roll stiffness to try to get all the grip it can, and won't lift the inside tire and rolls like crazy. I suspect neither of them will rotate off throttle like a stock 911 with squared or close to squared road tires would.
Hey,Great info, and I always appreciate your perspective. But:
Just realize I'm not going by a physics textbook, diagrams or driver anecdotes or onboards. I'm going by actual track experience re: how cars generally behave when driven at the limit. Obviously there are edge cases or individual cars that behave differently. I've driven quite a few where you're right: No matter what you do, they just plow ahead with understeer. All of those cars happened to be stock modern "sporty" street cars (an Audi RS5 being a notable example) that were set up that way (presumably) to keep their wealthy owners from wrapping their shiny toy around a telephone pole. I'd encourage you to take a more competition-oriented car (or an old one) to a track day and lift suddenly mid-corner. Just be sure to have another car to drive home in
Look - It's not a huge deal, and I can generally adjust the dampers to get it more in line with reality. But what you're essentially saying is that every other sim (AMS, rF2, R3E, iR) gets it wrong, and only AC gets it right.
Here's a pretty good article. I think you'll find that several of the techniques described simply don't work like this in AC. They do work (using identical simulated cars) in AMS, rF2, R3E, iR and...Real Life: https://nasaspeed.news/columns/driver-instruction/how-to-rotate-a-car/
This part in particular: "In the case of early throttle application, a lift of the throttle should be sufficient to transfer weight from the rear to the front and induce the rotation."
ps - I fully realize this won't be a popular opinion in an AC mod thread. Sorry guys.
1931 Bentley Blower
Hi guys, who likes to drive the historic cars,this is a very good converted car and fun to drive !
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Well, how to put this nicely
I'm sorry, that's not really correct about competition cars in particular. You certainly shouldn't get "lift-understeer" (that's not even a term I've ever heard and I've been hanging around tracks since 1978). Just google "Lift Oversteer" and then compare the results to "Lift Understeer" to see what I mean.
Great info, and I always appreciate your perspective. But:
Just realize I'm not going by a physics textbook, diagrams or driver anecdotes or onboards. I'm going by actual track experience re: how cars generally behave when driven at the limit. Obviously there are edge cases or individual cars that behave differently. I've driven quite a few where you're right: No matter what you do, they just plow ahead with understeer. All of those cars happened to be stock modern "sporty" street cars (an Audi RS5 being a notable example) that were set up that way (presumably) to keep their wealthy owners from wrapping their shiny toy around a telephone pole. I'd encourage you to take a more competition-oriented car (or an old one) to a track day and lift suddenly mid-corner. Just be sure to have another car to drive home in
Look - It's not a huge deal, and I can generally adjust the dampers to get it more in line with reality. But what you're essentially saying is that every other sim (AMS, rF2, R3E, iR) gets it wrong, and only AC gets it right.
Here's a pretty good article. I think you'll find that several of the techniques described simply don't work like this in AC. They do work (using identical simulated cars) in AMS, rF2, R3E, iR and...Real Life: https://nasaspeed.news/columns/driver-instruction/how-to-rotate-a-car/
This part in particular: "In the case of early throttle application, a lift of the throttle should be sufficient to transfer weight from the rear to the front and induce the rotation."
ps - I fully realize this won't be a popular opinion in an AC mod thread. Sorry guys.
Well, how to put this nicely
Yes, some cars do have lift oversteer in AC. But, compared to real life, it's very subtle and slow (except for a select few cars). In real life, driving a properly set-up race car, abruptly doing anything with the throttle mid-corner usually = Abruptly leaving the road. Backwards.
I actually believe this is a big reason why AC players tend to hate the way ACC drives (I know - there's a lot of other things to hate as well). ACC actually does model lift-oversteer quite well. Players likely became accustomed to AC's understeer-no-matter-what-you-do (unless you break the rears loose with power) and, when they tried ACC, they found out very quickly that abruptly lifting mid-corner in a properly set-up GT3 car leads to an instant (and often non-recoverable) spin. I can assure you that every track-prepped car I've ever driven (even my FWD H22 EG Civic with a Quaife LSD) has exhibited this behavior. I mean, it's something you rely on to correct the car mid-corner. Without it, it's like driving a truck.
Hey, you should really try other simulators! And with any sim, I think it would be very difficult to judge the physics on a simulated car without having some real-world point of reference. Even if you laser-scan every suspension element and hand-craft every tire, you're placing complete trust in the "black box" of AC's internal physics engine. Unless you can compare it to a real car in the real world, you can never be sure if the result is accurate. Even F1 teams (Williams, McLaren, Renault) often have major correlation issues between their supercomputing-cluster-driven CFD simulators and the way the car performs in the real world: https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.smedley-what-is-correlation.3gcOwCLuQ7rxk4bNeBKf1p.html
While I enjoy AC, I don't think it's better than an F1 team's $20 million simulator
Here in the USA, SCCA has some excellent "Track Night" programs where you can take your street car and try it out on a local track. You might have something similar where you live. Could be really helpful for ensuring your physics correlate with real car behavior.
Hey, you should check out the 2019 TCR's in Raceroom if you enjoyed that early Pcars Clio (I remember it too and you are absolutely right about how great it was before they dumbed it down). The one in AMS is also excellent.
@Turnup, it would be great if someone created the car "Mercedes-Benz Super Sport Kurz Barker Roadster '29" I think would be very appreciated by all members of the forum!Mercedes-Benz Super Sport Kurz Barker Roadster '29
could keep him company on the track.
Can someone make an envelope of this 3d model (it is easy to find it on demand in google
👍
Hi gents,
I cant remember who was looking for a Porsche 964 a few days ago. I found it at assettoland but with weird data.
From this page https://www.automobile-catalog.com/car/1993/2865290/porsche_911_carrera_rs_3_8.html I modified the data and the performances as well as the display (underestimated) of the rev counter. The hardest part was changing the size of the tires and rims and keep the wheels sticking to the road
You can get it here: https://mega.nz/#!os8lACCR!WfWHAvCjgLqKL3oc_3tqN0GRfhUkBjgub--_sEnmyuE
the author of this mod is Shokeus ACT80's. Very nice design and pleasant to drive at green hell.
Have fun, Mike.
