Attack in Berlin

[Vinylshark]

I don't know if you should actually laugh or cry about the fact, that there are still so many people who try to defend this kind of 🤬 and instead verbally attack their fellow countryman and accussing them of being Nazis.

I bet in 100 years (if Germany will even still exist than) German kids probably still will be teached that it's forbidden to be proud of your country and that you still have to feel guilty for what Hitler and the Nazis did

 

[PeterJB]

Did Merkel just say she doesn't understand why someone who comes to Germany to seek help can perform this sort of attack??

Is she that dense?

Edit.

She did. Wow. What a moron.

If Fraulein Merkel had any integrity she should take full responsibility for this and resign. Is it any wonder that terrorist attacks and sexual assault cases by migrants have skyrocketed since her open door policy began and the refugees started flooding in?

 

[Dennisch]

Wir schaffen das!

 

[mister dog]

Wir schaffen das!

Weg mit uns!

 

[Michael88]

According to the news the dead person in the truck is the original driver who has been murdered by the hijacker.

Merkel asking how something this terrible could happen takes the cake,. It really does.
Also what I really love about her is how she always reads her terror attack speeches from her paper line by line like an unemotional robot. She never reads them beforehand and does not really care.
I honestly think this women has some form of mental illness.

 

[Dennisch]

I honestly think this women has some form of mental illness

She suffers from feeling guilt for what Germany did in the 30's and 40's and this is her way of trying to fix that. And it's backfiring quite spectacular.

You can take the people out of the ****, but you can't take the **** out of the people.

 

[Michael88]

She suffers from feeling guilt for what Germany did in the 30's and 40's and this is her way of trying to fix that. And it's backfiring quite spectacular.

Yeah, and its a great idea to follow a terrible war with more death and unrest. As I said, shes has a few screws loose.

I wonder if she is going to get re-elected - if she does I'll never feel sorry for German victims of terror attacks again.

 

[DLR_Mysterion]

Police think they have to wrong man apparently:

https://www.welt.de/politik/deutsch...socialmedia.socialflow....socialflow_facebook

 

[RacingPanda]

Horrible. Thoughts and prayers go to everybody living in Berlin (and with relatives and friends there).

Spoiler: Something I need to say, though. In a spoiler, because it is only slightly related to the topic.

This thread, amongst others in this section of the forum, truly sickens me. It feels like most of you are simply here to say "I told you so! They are all savages!", completely ignoring the tragedy of this event and instead priding themselves on how your ignorant and hateful mindset is the right one to have.
There's a German word called "Schadenfreude", being happy because something awful is happening. This is a reoccuring theme I see whenever there's a possibility of a refugee being involved. Back when news outlets haven't even reported on the origin of the attacker, people were "certain" that he was a refugee, or a Muslim (hell, for these kinds of people, all those terms are just words for "people I don't like because they're not like me"). The problem is, the lot of you don't even understand the issue with your mindset. It's not about "hurr durr you're a racist". It's about you wanting to have your stereotypes confirmed. For some reason, people barely talk about the Munich shooting ... oh yeah, it didn't confirm your prejudices. That's the issue. To use something more relevant, why isn't anybody talking about how people were gunned down at a mosque in Zurich on here? Oh, I accidentally already answered my own question!

For the record: I'm pretty far left-wing (call me a libtard all you want, "liberal" means something else to me than it does to you) and I do know that mistakes were made during the last 2 years. Yet, I don't comdemn people because of certain groups. Not every Muslim is a radical terrorist. If you think so, there are many other groups that have bad apples in them, what do you make of them? I was born in Saxony and they were always a bit ... "odd". I don't call all of them uneducated racists, though.

It wouldn't be Christmas without radical Muslims trying to ruin it...

There's nothing so far but let's be honest who else is it gonna be...

"I don't need facts. I can make up my own version of what happened just fine!"

Did Merkel just say she doesn't understand why someone who comes to Germany to seek help can perform this sort of attack??

Is she that dense?

Everybody with a similar profile is a criminal, of course. Have you actually worked with refugees? Well, I suppose you don't. I have though, and while some won't exactly lay at your feet because you gift them a sweater of yours, most are very grateful for living here for the time being. Some of them were also quite happy when being granted the chance to be involved in local politics (well to be fair, making food isn't what one would call involvment, but they didn't resort to the "I don't need to work, you're giving me money after all!" prejudice that most of you like to resort to).
You're picturing the situation as if everybody came here not to seek asylum, but to wreak havoc and destroy the country.

Weg mit uns!

"hurr durr the whites become extinct and the Germans support it" - Please don't tell me this is what you actually believe? Even so, how insecure and unsuccessful does one have to be to identify through a skin color or nationality? This applies to all people with this mindset, by the way.

I wonder if she is going to get re-elected - if she does I'll never feel sorry for German victims of terror attacks again.

No matter the results, I can live just fine without your sympathy.


Oh yeah, I suddenly remembered why I avoid visiting this section of GTP.

 

[Dennisch]

Everybody with a similar profile is a criminal, of course. Have you actually worked with refugees? Well, I suppose you don't. I have though,

Well, whoopdidoo. You want a medal for that? Seeing how you don't know my personal life, I'd refrain from such assumptions.

while some won't exactly lay at your feet because you gift them a sweater of yours, most are very grateful for living here for the time being. Some of them were also quite happy when being granted the chance to be involved in local politics (well to be fair, making food isn't what one would call involvment, but they didn't resort to the "I don't need to work, you're giving me money after all!" prejudice that most of you like to resort to).

What I meant was that the one who did this didn't come to Europe for help. He probably disguised himself as a refugee to go unnoticed and having easy access to his victims.

You're picturing the situation as if everybody came here not to seek asylum, but to wreak havoc and destroy the country.

PM, is that you?

But please, show me where I said that they're all the same.

 

[Carbonox]

Apparently the driver is a refugee.

If true Merkel is finished.

Wow, he sure was a poor victim of war in dire need of asylum. Oh wait...

 

[tarnheld]

Did Merkel just say she doesn't understand why someone who comes to Germany to seek help can perform this sort of attack??

No.

I wonder if she is going to get re-elected - if she does I'll never feel sorry for German victims of terror attacks again.

Thanks, but i can easily pass on that kind of symphathy.

It's illuminating to see the use of polemic and speculation shortly after such a cruel attack. Please take your rants to the right threads, the facts are just being sorted out.

 

[DLR_Mysterion]

Horrible. Thoughts and prayers go to everybody living in Berlin (and with relatives and friends there).

This thread, amongst others in this section of the forum, truly sickens me. It feels like most of you are simply here to say "I told you so! They are all savages!", completely ignoring the tragedy of this event and instead priding themselves on how your ignorant and hateful mindset is the right one to have.
There's a German word called "Schadenfreude", being happy because something awful is happening. This is a reoccuring theme I see whenever there's a possibility of a refugee being involved. Back when news outlets haven't even reported on the origin of the attacker, people were "certain" that he was a refugee, or a Muslim (hell, for these kinds of people, all those terms are just words for "people I don't like because they're not like me"). The problem is, the lot of you don't even understand the issue with your mindset. It's not about "hurr durr you're a racist". It's about you wanting to have your stereotypes confirmed. For some reason, people barely talk about the Munich shooting ... oh yeah, it didn't confirm your prejudices. That's the issue. To use something more relevant, why isn't anybody talking about how people were gunned down at a mosque in Zurich on here? Oh, I accidentally already answered my own question!

For the record: I'm pretty far left-wing (call me a libtard all you want, "liberal" means something else to me than it does to you) and I do know that mistakes were made during the last 2 years. Yet, I don't comdemn people because of certain groups. Not every Muslim is a radical terrorist. If you think so, there are many other groups that have bad apples in them, what do you make of them? I was born in Saxony and they were always a bit ... "odd". I don't call all of them uneducated racists, though.

I think that applies to most school shootings though (or shootings that resemble them, like the Munich one). The Zurish one not getting attention is because, crassly, it's not a big event in relation to the other two. There are other news stories that don't fit your narrative - e.g. why isn't there a thread about the 12 year old trying to bomb a Christmas market:

http://www.wsj.com/articles/germany...d-boys-explosive-fails-to-detonate-1481896746

It's not really about stereotypes, it's more to do with how we approach terrorism as, rightly or wrongly it is more topical and emotive - and threads about them tend to gather attention.

 

[Dennisch]

No

Yes.

"I know it would be especially hard for us all to bear if it were confirmed that (the) person who committed this act was someone who sought protection and asylum," she added. She promised that every detail would be cleared up and the perpetrator would be punished with the full force of the law.

 

[tarnheld]

Did Merkel just say she doesn't understand why someone who comes to Germany to seek help can perform this sort of attack??

know it would be especially hard for us all to bear if it were confirmed that (the) person who committed this act was someone who sought protection and asylum

"do not understand sth." isn't the same as "find sth. hard to bear/take".

Just cut the polemic, will you please?

 

[Dennisch]

"do not understand sth." isn't the same as "find sth. hard to bear/take".

Just cut the polemic, will you please?

Ish.

My brain translated it as 'hard to believe'.

Also.

What polemic? Merkel and her wir schaffen das policy?

 

[PeterJB]

I'm not glad this has happened, I'm angry that it has, and I'm angry because of why it has happened. What do you think's gonna happen when the chancellor decides to freely let in hoards of refugees from countries with well-known links to terrorism without doing any background checks on exactly who it is you're letting in? This is exactly what IS wants; access to Europe. Since the refugee crisis began terrorist attacks and sexual assault cases by migrants have gone through the roof. IS are not stupid, they know that they can smuggle themselves across the Mediterranean if they want to, and when there they can recruit European Muslims to their cause and try and bring things down from within.

I'm all for allowing people the emigrate to other countries if they so wish, but you can't do so without at least some basic background and security checks to ensure that they have good intentions and do not pose a threat to your citizens, and that they intend to assimilate into your society instead of bringing the baggage of theirs with them.

As for Muslims themselves, yes, the vast majority are completely harmless. If the number of radicals Muslims was as high as is sometimes made out by right-wing news outlets, then Europe probably would have already been brought to its knees, especially if any of them got access to nuclear weapons.

I'm a Christian, all religions have their flaws, problems and dangerous nutters, but I think it's fair to say that Islam has the most. How many present-day Christian theocracies can you name ran along the lines of Saudi Arabia or Iran? How many non-Islamic countries still give the death penalty for homosexuality or apostasy? How many non-Islamic countries expect women to cover themselves at all times or not to go out in public without a male guardian? How many Christian and other non-Islamic terrorist groups are there that regular do attacks with death tolls in double or triple figures? (Yes I know about the Lord's Resistance Army, though they've only done half a dozen attacks in the past decade ). All religions and ideologies have had their turn at the persecution game (radical Christianity throughout the middle ages, Communism in the 20th century, militant Republicanism during the French Revolution), but now, it so happens to be radical Islam's turn.

 

[Vinylshark]

I wonder if she is going to get re-elected - if she does I'll never feel sorry for German victims of terror attacks again.

Let me get this right. If she should be re-elected you think that every German that dies in a terrorist attack has to blame himself for it, even if he voted against Merkel?
Yeah, that doesn't sound retarded at all.

That's like saying to a Mexican "You couldn't get enough votes against Trump. Now you can only blame yourself for being thrown out of the USA".

 

[TRGTspecialist]

I wonder if she is going to get re-elected - if she does I'll never feel sorry for German victims of terror attacks again.

Sorry but what a horrible thing to say. The sympathy you give to innocent victims of terror shouldn't have a damn thing to do with whatever politician you like/don't like is in power. 👎

 

[Michael88]

Let me get this right. If she should be re-elected you think that every German that dies in a terrorist attack has to blame himself for it, even if he voted against Merkel?
Yeah, that doesn't sound retarded at all.

No, not really, I was angry and frustrated about the recent incidences so my words weren't chosen wisely but still, if Merkel got re-elected it would be a punch in the faces of those that died in the recent terror attacks.

Merkel has been playing her part in letting this happen and if the majority of the Germans decide to let her continue her naive course they will also be to blame for all the bad things that will inevitably happen.

 

[DLR_Mysterion]

Guys we still don't know if this was a migrant....

 

[mustafur]

Apprently the Pakistani Asylum seeker they picked up who they think did the attack might not actually be the person responsible, which means there is potentially an armed terrorist on the loose in Germany.

 

[Azuremen]

I'm all for allowing people the emigrate to other countries if they so wish, but you can't do so without at least some basic background and security checks to ensure that they have good intentions and do not pose a threat to your citizens, and that they intend to assimilate into your society instead of bringing the baggage of theirs with them.

Because it so simple to run a background check on a person fleeing a country whose government is collapsing? Immigration checks are time consuming when the countries involved aren't in anarchy, and basically impossible when they are. So how exactly are they suppose to make that work?

And I've noticed the view in Europe is more "assimilate" into our culture rather than a fusion. The French seem particularly focused on this and it just seems a bit weird as an American. We've had huge amounts of immigration since the start of the country and there has certainly been a fusion of cultures over time, albeit regional as result of the countries size. So is it just a history thing, with the various European countries and culture having deeper roots?

As for the Christianity vs Islam thing, I'm not even sure where to start on that rambling of rhetorical questions.

 

[Michael88]

And I've noticed the view in Europe is more "assimilate" into our culture rather than a fusion. The French seem particularly focused on this and it just seems a bit weird as an American. We've had huge amounts of immigration since the start of the country and there has certainly been a fusion of cultures over time, albeit regional as result of the countries size. So is it just a history thing, with the various European countries and culture having deeper roots?

I'm from Austria, this place has been a hotspot for immigration for centuries and we live in relative harmony with many different cultures and people from all corners of the world. Proof for that is the crime rates have always been very low.( but recently major cities crime rates have DOUBLED.)

Its just that people coming from very specific regions and having a very specific believe system stick out like a sore thumb and cause magnitudes more trouble than all the other immigrants.
This might not be politically correct but thats how it is, I've already realized this way back in school. More than half of my classmates were immigrants from all over the world and guess who caused all sort of problems, didn't accept authority, didn't want to learn our language, treated other girls badly.... Same story in other classes.

I can see very distinctive patterns. I do not hate Islam, nor do I hate people who believe in it, I simply think, from my experience, they have an extremely hard time to adjust to other cultures and value systems and their traditions and customs are highly incompatible with other cultures law systems. This causes tension, aggression problems - on both sides.

I do not think this kind of immigration benefits anyone, neither the immigrants nor the people offering help.

 

[Azuremen]

I'm from Austria, this place has been a hotspot for immigration for centuries and we live in relative harmony with many different cultures and people from all corners of the world. Proof for that is the crime rates have always been very low.( but recently major cities crime rates have DOUBLED.)

And yet you still have a lower percent of foreign residents than the US and most of those are from Eastern European countries. If you have data that shows how diverse Austria is, I'd love to it see, but at the moment it doesn't seem that different compared to other European countries, at least from the perspective of an American.

The behaviors you are talking about aren't just from the Islamic states though... I see similar cultural issues with immigrants from India and South East Asia. And I agree that many of those attitudes don't work in Western cultures but thus the idea of a fusion. Which tends to work once the general socially acceptable behaviors barrier while still allowing for them to retain core cultural ideas. Or else I'm just imagining all my Sikh and Muslim friends that immigrated and manage just fine.

 

[PeterJB]

Because it so simple to run a background check on a person fleeing a country whose government is collapsing? Immigration checks are time consuming when the countries involved aren't in anarchy, and basically impossible when they are. So how exactly are they suppose to make that work?

And I've noticed the view in Europe is more "assimilate" into our culture rather than a fusion. The French seem particularly focused on this and it just seems a bit weird as an American. We've had huge amounts of immigration since the start of the country and there has certainly been a fusion of cultures over time, albeit regional as result of the countries size. So is it just a history thing, with the various European countries and culture having deeper roots?

As for the Christianity vs Islam thing, I'm not even sure where to start on that rambling of rhetorical questions.

Not letting in so many at once would be a good place to start, or splitting it between more countries. Germany has taken over half a million so far, far more than any other country. We've seen time and time again the cases of human rights abuses that go on in Middle Eastern countries, is it any wonder that gonna start happening here when people are freely let in?

The US is a colonial country founded by immigrants, though the vast majority of those are of European descent and therefore share a lot of common ground in terms of values and customs. Hostilities arising largely over cultural differences between the East and the West have been going on for centuries, it shouldn't be too much a surprise that tensions and conflicts of interest arise when the two are hastily pushed together. This is not thousands of people coming to Europe to start a new life or because it's a culture they admire and want to be a part of, it's because they need somewhere to go to avoid being killed, and Europe is currently the easiest option for them. Any port in a storm.

 

[Michael88]

The behaviors you are talking about aren't just from the Islamic states though... I see similar cultural issues with immigrants from India and South East Asia. And I agree that many of those attitudes don't work in Western cultures but thus the idea of a fusion. Which tends to work once the general socially acceptable behaviors barrier while still allowing for them to retain core cultural ideas. Or else I'm just imagining all my Sikh and Muslim friends that immigrated and manage just fine.

The problem with fusion is, to get a good end result you have to mix two equally good things together, otherwise you'll simply end up downgrading stuff for the sake of fairness. This leads to regression and thats never a good thing.

It may be politically incorrect to say this but many of the core Islamic laws and customs are inferior to those of the western culture. I do not think mixing Western cultures value system and jurisdiction with those that condone or even encourage violence or inequality between men and women and lift belief above law -or mix it- should be something to strive for.

There is a very long list of other cultures whose value systems and laws are much more compatible, relaxed, adaptable and simply progressive.

 

[Vinylshark]

No, not really, I was angry and frustrated about the recent incidences so my words weren't chosen wisely but still, if Merkel got re-elected it would be a punch in the faces of those that died in the recent terror attacks.

Merkel has been playing her part in letting this happen and if the majority of the Germans decide to let her continue her naive course they will also be to blame for all the bad things that will inevitably happen.

I'm not a fan of her myself, but I'm not sure what you really expect to happen once Merkel is gone? The damage has already been done and I don't think it will really change much with Merkel gone.
I think the only party who really would put a stop to this whole immigration mess (closing borders, etc) would be the AFD as the biggest right-winged one, but unless they somehow get more than 50% of the votes they won't do anything at all, since none other party would join a coalition with them.

 

[Azuremen]

The problem with fusion is, to get a good end result you have to mix two equally good things together, otherwise you'll simply end up downgrading stuff for the sake of fairness. This leads to regression and thats never a good thing.

It may be politically incorrect to say this but many of the core Islamic laws and customs are inferior to those of the western culture. I do not think mixing Western cultures value system and jurisdiction with those that condone or even encourage violence or inequality between men and women and lift belief above law -or mix it- should be something to strive for.

It wasn't too long ago that Western culture put women very clearly below men. Of course, it still does but not to the same extent you see in some Islamic states, but that is besides the point. The point is your sense of cultural superiority is removed from the reality of relatively recent history and even the current situations in Western countries. Further, you seem to only look at negatives of their culture and the positives of your culture. And then to simply dismiss an entire culture as "incompatible" certainly won't lead to any form of progress. Unless resentment and further tension between cultures is your idea of progress.

I'm curious what your long term vision of the world is, because all I can gather is an "us and them" mentality that isn't really compatible with the direction the world is moving.

 

[Touring Mars]

Not letting in so many at once would be a good place to start, or splitting it between more countries.

They didn't have much choice really - Europe champions itself as a bastion of freedom, dignity and human rights.... faced with a massive wave of migrants, it would have gone against these ideals to refuse entry to those in desperate need. By turning away those in need, Europe stood to prove to the world and itself that those noble ideals are not genuine. So Germany (and others) decided to open the flood gates in the hope (or perhaps expectation) that the apparatus of the EU could be used to disperse people equitably across the continent - neglecting the fact that there is in fact no mechanism by which to do so, and that it would require the consent of all EU member states to create such a mechanism... so in the meantime it comes down to individual member states to make the decision for themselves as to how many migrants they are going to accept - and Germany will have to deal with the fact that they are unlikely to be able to reduce their migrant burden by any means other than persuasion (and possibly bribery) for the time being.

It hasn't yet been established if this horrific attack has anything to do with migrants, but at the same time it doesn't take a genius to understand why there are suspicions, and why the activity of migrants is under special scrutiny at the present time. Given the nature of the threat that faces every civilised country from Islamist extremists who have openly expressed their desire to exploit the migrant crisis to carry out attacks on European soil (and in the precise manner in which the Berlin attack was conducted), I don't think it is being especially unfair to have concerns about the wisdom of letting migrants enter the country without any checks of any kind.

As for the comments above about schadenfreude and wishing for one's 'stereotypes' to be 'confirmed' - I'd say that was a load of utter bollocks. I hope whoever carried out this cowardly and horrific crime gets what is coming to them regardless of any other considerations, and I sincerely hope that it was not a migrant or Islamic extremist (though I suspect it will be the latter). To say such a thing is a gross misunderstanding of the situation and a bit of an insult too, but never mind. But if it turns out that this horrible attack was carried out by someone who otherwise might have found it much harder to get into the country if not for the recent migrant crisis, then I won't be saying 'I told you so' or gloating about it in any sense - but it wouldn't surprise me, and it would raise further, perfectly legitimate questions about what should be done to address that particular issue.