Many Killed in Attack in Nice

[UKMikey]

People using tragedies to push their selfish political goals are sick people.

Irony alert.

 

[Michael88]

You are not very smart, are you?

I'm average, but you seem to be the person who chooses emotions over logical thinking. I suggest taking a break to think about my post and then reporting back with a more thought-through answer thats not a one-liner with an insult.

Irony alert.

I have no political agenda, if thats what you are trying to tell me with your post. I merely suggest being cautious about politics making hasty decisions - they may be done out of pure self interest, selling it as a cheap solution to terror. So far, media reports and suggestions from the politics have all been all heart and no brain, which is especially evident if you compare whats been said about the two recent terror attacks.

 

[UKMikey]

I have no political agenda, if thats what you are trying to tell me with your post. I merely suggest being cautious about politics making hasty decisions - they me be out of pure self interest, selling it as a cheap solution to terror. So far, media reports and suggestions from the politics have all been all heart and no brain.

The irony is that the meme you posted capitalises on both of the recent tragedies to pick sides in the gun control argument. That's pushing a political goal as people are not blaming guns instead of the Orlando killer.

 

[mister dog]

You are not very smart, are you?

Please do explain why no one is saying we need to ban killer trucks? I mean it is as much as a weapon as the rifle that was used in the gay club no? But then the attention was shifted to gun control instead of the radical Islamist that pulled the trigger.

See the point @Michael88 is making here?

 

[Michael88]

The irony is that the meme you posted uses the tragedies to pick sides in the gun control argument. That's pushing a political goal as people are not blaming guns instead of the Orlando killer.

If I agree with a general statement this does not mean I'm automatically picking any sides. I agree with some things Trump says, just as much as with some of Hillary's statements. That does not mean I'd vote for any of them or that I'm picking any sides.

Why is it that people can only think one extremes nowadays? Agree with a single statement = picking sides. Telling people the government may push their agendas using tragedies = not smart

That kind of radical thinking is what is causing a lot of the problems of today, I suggest mental moderation and keeping a clear, open mind thats is not too overly clouded by emotions.

 

[Denur]

Please do explain why no one is saying we need to ban killer trucks?

I have issue with bringing the gun debate into this thread.

 

[mister dog]

I have issue with bringing the gun debate into this thread.

Yeah but it is relevant towards the topic though, so a bit harsh to call people stupid just for bringing it up IMO.

 

[UKMikey]

If I agree with a general statement this does not mean I'm automatically picking any sides. I agree with some things Trump says, just as much as with some of Hillary's statements. That does not mean I'd vote for any of them or that I'm picking any sides.

Why is it that people can only think one extremes nowadays? Agree with a single statement = picking sides. Telling people the government may push their agendas using tragedies = not smart

That kind of radical thinking is what is causing a lot of the problems of today, I suggest mental moderation and keeping a clear, open mind thats is not too overly clouded by emotions.

Pointing out the irony of using a political meme (and gun control is a political issue) while complaining about people using tragedies to push political points =/= going to extremes. What happened in France is only peripherally connected to that debate unless someone wants to argue that the beachgoers should've been armed.

 

[Milouse]

(Quoting Quran): the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides

Let's not compromise the overall body balance. We're not that barbaric.

Please do explain why no one is saying we need to ban killer trucks? I mean it is as much as a weapon as the rifle that was used in the gay club no?

1. Count people killed by guns in the last year.
2. Count people killed by using a truck as a weapon on same period.
3. Compare.
4. Congratulations! You've done your first step in the world of reason.

 

[Michael88]

Let's not compromise the overall body balance. We're not that barbaric.


1. Count people killed by guns in the last year.
2. Count people killed by using a truck as a weapon on same period.
3. Compare.
4. Congratulations! You've done your first step in the world of reason.

Not sure, if you count in reckless driving, road rage and wrong-way-drivers on the highway - in my opinion this counts as ''used as a weapon''- the death toll with vehicles would be magnitudes higher than with firearms.

If you'd scratch the ''used as a weapon'' altogether you'd get mind boggling numbers that would put vehicles on par with weapons of mass destruction. Intent ignored, vehicles are MUCH deadlier than guns and a cause a lot more tragedies every single day.

 

[Denur]

Yeah but it is relevant towards the topic though, so a bit harsh to call people stupid just for bringing it up IMO.

I understand that it's hard for people who fervently love guns, having guns blamed all the time for what people do with them. Just take it to the guns thread, will you please?

 

[Milouse]

Intent ignored, vehicles are MUCH deadlier than guns

Oh, i see the pattern: usefulness ignored, vehicles are as useless as guns and such argument.

 

[Michael88]

Oh, i see the pattern: usefulness ignored, vehicles are as useless as guns and such argument.

Depends. Is a tool that is being used to defend yourself useless? Is a sports car you only drive for fun useless, or a car when you have many options to travel with public transports? Is it justifiable (morally as well) to ban Y because it is somewhat less useful than X?
Alcohol causes many accidents and kills people every day, is it useful?

What I'm trying to say is, determining usefulness is not even remotely as easy as you're trying to make it appear and it mostly depends on the situation.

On the list of things that causes the most death each year guns is very low on the list, alcohol, tobacco and vehicles of all kinds is way up there. Thats something to think about.

 

[Milouse]

These gun control discussions always end in the same infinite loop full of nonsense, so i'm agree with Denur: let it loop in its own thread.

 

[mister dog]

These gun control discussions always end in the same infinite loop full of nonsense, so i'm agree with Denur: let it loop in its own thread.

Point is not gun control, point is liberal media shifting the focus away from radical Islam towards gun control, in order to not have to deal with the other sensitive subject at hand.

 

[mirial]

Let's not compromise the overall body balance. We're not that barbaric.


1. Count people killed by guns in the last year.
2. Count people killed by using a truck as a weapon on same period.
3. Compare.
4. Congratulations! You've done your first step in the world of reason.

The issue seems to be that no one thought to use a vehicle as a weapon until some highly imaginative radical (can't remember his name) inspired those to use anything at their disposal to kill, including vehicles.

Do you not find it worrying that there are many in your land that want to do this with complete ease? The security checks on that truck were appalling, or are French police suffering from very PC policies where they are scared to check potential suspects in case they are branded racist?

 

[Milouse]

point is liberal media shifting the focus away from radical Islam towards gun control, in order to not have to deal with the other sensitive subject at hand

This is a very subjective way to read the situation.
Both subjects can coexist in media, and radical Islam benefits no support of any kind in mainstream media.

 

[mister dog]

This is a very subjective way to read the situation.

Not really, debate was shifted to gun control after the massacre in the gay club:

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box...enews-call-for-gun-control-in-wake-of-orlando

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...lando-terror-attack-Islam-address-nation.html

Both subjects can coexist in media, and radical Islam benefits no support of any kind in mainstream media.

Media does not support radical Islam, but media tries to shift the focus away from it when given an opportunity. This as to not 'arouse' the masses.

 

[Milouse]

The security checks on that truck were appalling

Hurry, hurry, call the police !
mirial: "There is a truck driver... driving a... a... truck!"
Police officer: "What? Take your breath and explain sir."
mirial: "On the road! It has a driving wheel in his hand!"
Police officer: "Sir..."
mirial: "The way you're dealing with the situation is appalling. Is that because the driver is Arab?"
Police officer: "I'll free the phone line now. Do not call again sir."

Do you not find it worrying that there are many in your land that want to do this with complete ease?

The terrorists are changing target depending to where the security focus is on. They used knifes, they used riffles, explosive belts, and now a truck. they attacked a journal, a school, a museum, an airport, a metro station, a train (the Thalys a few months ago, could have been terrible), a beach promenade, a policeman home, some restaurants, a concert place and a stadium. The "next list" is huge.
Current security strategy is to limit damages. Total security is not even an option in such context, as it is not during wars.

This should not elude debates around security options, but unless one have a concrete and realistic solution to talk about, one would better stop trying to look serious by stating over and over that "a problem" is a "serious problem". This does not solve problems. (Trumps voters will get the taste of this if he ever win election).

 

[Milouse]

Media does not support radical Islam, but media tries to shift the focus away from it when given an opportunity. This as to not 'arouse' the masses.

I've been overwhelmed, like no other subject ever before in my life, by news and features in media about radical islam in the last 18 months.

Could we rename this thread "Nonsense collection"?

 

[mister dog]

Hurry, hurry, call the police !
mirial: "There is a truck driver... driving a... a... truck!"
Police officer: "What? Take your breath and explain sir."
mirial: "On the road! It has a driving wheel in his hand!"
Police officer: "Sir..."
mirial: "The way you're dealing with the situation is appalling. Is that because the driver is Arab?"
Police officer: "I'll free the phone line now. Do not call again sir."

Better get your facts straight:

https://www.rt.com/news/351541-nice-attack-ice-cream/

 

[Milouse]

Better get your facts straight:

https://www.rt.com/news/351541-nice-attack-ice-cream/

You're not supposed to write "facts straight" and, in the same sentence, post a link to Putin's propaganda media Russia Today, you know

This is a disinformation site i'm avoiding like plague, let's stick with informations.

 

[ryzno]

Regardless of the link, I read the same on more reputable sites...

 

[mister dog]

I knew blaming the source would be his last resort
Major fail of the French PD no? Guess they were hesitant to check the truck as to not be blamed for racially profiling afterwards...

 

[Milouse]

Regardless of the link, I read the same on more reputable sites...

I knew blaming the source would be his last resort

I didn't follow the link, i said why, and, hence, did not refute specific content. Free to Mister Dog to use a decent link in a next post. And i'm far to be in a last resort stance - maybe in a fed up mood, at worst.

 

[Milouse]

Guess they were hesitant to check the truck as to not be blamed for racially profiling afterwards...

You have no clue of the actual situation regarding this in France (but why i'm not surprised since you reference to Russia Today and english tabloids), so stop "guessing".You're just plain wrong here.

 

[mister dog]

Telegraph good enough for you?:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...ce-unfolded-driver-told-police-he-was-delive/

Here's a French one too:

https://m6info.yahoo.com/info-m6-attentat-de-nice-1472493183049782.html

 

[fumunaplz]

Does anyone remember when the press of the U.S. used to blame deaths on SUV's? They seriously did, they would never say that a man or woman committed the crime they would say that the magical SUV did.

I could find evidence if no one believes me

 

[Milouse]

Telegraph good enough for you?:

Yes, good enough.

I amend:

Hurry, hurry, call the police !
mirial: "There is a truck driver... driving a... a... refrigerated truck!"
Police officer: "What? Take your breath and explain sir."
mirial: "On the road near the beach! It has a driving wheel in his hand!"
Police officer: "Sir..."
mirial: "The way you're dealing with the situation is appalling. Is that because the driver is Arab?"
Police officer: "I'll free the phone line now. Do not call again sir."

Thank you, that's even a better story.

Supplying ice cream in summer on french riviera, especially close to the beach and when ice cream are supposed to sell like... well, ice cream in summer *cough* is a pretty convincing and non-alerting answer.

 

[mister dog]

Yeah you're absolutely right. No reason to suspect anything when a bearded Muslim man (profiling i know), sits stationary in his truck for a long time staring at the crowds, just when the terror alert is at its highest nationwide and it's the French national holiday.

I mean why would they even consider actually checking the contents of his non refrigerated truck. He must be delivering ice cream right?

Now if you'll excuse me i think i'll go talk to a wall now. Seems more productive.