Attack on gas plant in France.

[Spurgy 777]

No one has the balls to say this but you are a traitor to the West and everything we stand for. And no it's not because you're a Muslim so don't cry over that.

@Dotini Quite interesting, although you have to read some of the quotes in Arabic on social media to see how bad it is here (Britain). Also interesting how the post was deleted there - the thought police know no language!

Wait, what?

 

[MatskiMonk]

you are a traitor to the West and everything we stand for.

Don't take this the wrong way or anything, but whatever concoction of persecution, paranoia and racism is swirling around in your head doesn't seem to leave you with anything like the balanced opinion you think you have, which is fine since you're entitled to your opinions and clearly have some experiences to back them up (filling in the blanks with what you find in the Daily Mail unfortunately), but frankly I find it pretty offensive that you think you can speak on behalf everyone else in this thread, let alone on behalf of everyone in the west.

 

[Furinkazen]

No one has the balls to say this but you are a traitor to the West and everything we stand for. And no it's not because you're a Muslim so don't cry over that.

1. Wouldn't be surprised if you get banned for that crap.

2. Didn't know you were the spokesperson for the west. Bloody glad you aren't because World War 3 would have happened a long time ago.

 

[Joel]

I think we've reached peak KSaiyu.

 

[polysmut]

No one has the balls to say this but you are a traitor to the West and everything we stand for.

I'm from the West & so are most of the people I know.
What is it that we stand for or should be standing for? I have no idea.

 

[Tired Tyres]

Freedom and liberty for all? Or am I thinking of a different West?

 

[KSaiyu]

The biggest traitor of the west and what we stand for is some bloke called Farage who is gathering support by the hour and who is undemocratically the leader of UKIP. Everyone here would have no problem calling out Christians if this was a fighter marching in the name of radical Christianity. Some people have dedicated their lives to multiculturalism, like @TenEightyOne and marched @Scaff to stop someone like that getting anywhere near power and because we are all scared to admit the truth he's a lot closer to his end goal. Think about why you are getting angry with me, which a lot of this liberal board has and not just blocking me. I've endured ad hominem after ad hominem because I've called your view of the world out as is frankly my right and as soon as I resort to showing my feelings to someone I perceive as a traitor to the ideals of laicite (which I'd include PM in too) you collectively throw a hissy fit and call for my head.

Carry on grieving as I am and I'll carry on my break from this board.

 

[Furinkazen]

The biggest traitor of the west and what we stand for is some bloke called Farage who is gathering support by the hour and who is undemocratically the leader of UKIP. Everyone here would have no problem calling out Christians if this was a fighter marching in the name of radical Christianity. Some people have dedicated their lives to multiculturalism, like @TenEightyOne and marched @Scaff to stop someone like that getting anywhere near power and because we are all scared to admit the truth he's a lot closer to his end goal. Think about why you are getting angry with me, which a lot of this liberal board has and not just blocking me. I've endured ad hominem after ad hominem because I've called your view of the world out as is frankly my right and as soon as I resort to showing my feelings to someone I perceive as a traitor to the ideals of laceite (which I'd include PM in too) you collectively throw a hissy fit and call for my head.

Carry on grieving as I am and I'll carry on my break from this board.

I'd like a translation please, in sensibles layman terms 👍

 

[Saidur_Ali]

The biggest traitor of the west and what we stand for is some bloke called Farage who is gathering support by the hour and who is undemocratically the leader of UKIP. Everyone here would have no problem calling out Christians if this was a fighter marching in the name of radical Christianity. Some people have dedicated their lives to multiculturalism, like @TenEightyOne and marched @Scaff to stop someone like that getting anywhere near power and because we are all scared to admit the truth he's a lot closer to his end goal. Think about why you are getting angry with me, which a lot of this liberal board has and not just blocking me. I've endured ad hominem after ad hominem because I've called your view of the world out as is frankly my right and as soon as I resort to showing my feelings to someone I perceive as a traitor to the ideals of laceite (which I'd include PM in too) you collectively throw a hissy fit and call for my head.

Carry on grieving as I am and I'll carry on my break from this board.

You mention Farage, you realise he couldn't even win the seat UKIP targeted and invested a lot of money into?

Angry? I think people just want to know what you are talking about. Your points have been challenged time and time again. Head in sand approach seems to be your answer, understandable really if you can't prove your point well and likely reason is because they are outlandish claims.

 

[TenEightyOne]

The biggest traitor of the west and what we stand for is some bloke called Farage who is gathering support by the hour and who is undemocratically the leader of UKIP.

Can you name any party whose leader is elected by a public democracy?

Everyone here would have no problem calling out Christians if this was a fighter marching in the name of radical Christianity.

I've seen plenty of people in this forum argue against Britain First.

Some people have dedicated their lives to multiculturalism, like @TenEightyOne

Utter bollocks. Source required.

Think about why you are getting angry with me, which a lot of this liberal board has and not just blocking me. I've endured ad hominem after ad hominem because I've called your view of the world out as is frankly my right and as soon as I resort to showing my feelings to someone I perceive as a traitor to the ideals of laicite (which I'd include PM in too) you collectively throw a hissy fit and call for my head.

Lost me there, I have to say. I don't recall ever being angry with you but I feel constantly disappointed that you have such a narrow-world, childishly-excitable view of the differences of people around you. That coupled with the sensationalist right-wing press that you apparently favour seems to have led you to believe that we're under constant attack. Constant, I tell you. CONSTANT!

People who rightly dismiss your convoluted, anecdotal evidence are Liberals, The Left, or Politically Correct. It really isn't like that, some people simply have a broader world view, more experience of the very things that you claim a unique expertise in and, I daresay, might have spent longer sensibly considering and researching facts.

Carry on grieving as I am and I'll carry on my break from this board.

I didn't quite understand that sentence either but I liked the sound of it overall.

 

[polysmut]

What is it that we stand for or should be standing for?

@KSaiyu. To clarify, was

the ideals of laicite

the answer to my question?

& you were saying that @Saidur_Ali doesn't stand for those ideals & is therefore a traitor to something? A traitor to the West?

I understand lots of people are asking you questions & you might have been trying to answer everybody at once, concisely.

 

[Encyclopedia]

I don't think I've come across a more incoherent poster on any board honestly.

 

[JKgo]

I don't think I've come across a more incoherent poster on any board honestly.

... Yeah, it's too bad. Honestly, I can't fully comprehend his reasonings. Ah well, at least he doesn't make spelling mistakes, so he is well educated...

On the other hand, I have seen/read worse stuff from Youtube comments sections... but that's a story for another day.

 

[Christian_C]

The thing I still don't fully understand is what Ksaiyu is actually arguing for or who as a matter of fact.

By this I mean everything is given in crytpo-form, insinuations and non-evidenced self experiences. I've still yet to see concrete evidence for some points he argues or even counter arguments against evidence presented to him. He repeatedly refers to his visit to a Mosque which he refers to as 'One of the biggest in Europe and in London' but doesn't actually tell us the name or where said Mosque is. Why?

Similarly he implies he is a student who interacts with Muslims on a daily basis but seems to frankly know very little.

It all just seems like it could be a complete fabrication from dug up daily mail articles it's that full of holes, head in sand and ignorance.

He certainly doesn't represent the views of myself, most of GTP I imagine and certainly not "the west".

 

[KSaiyu]

I'd suggest everyone study this and the history of Western intervention in developing regions and third-world countries.

It's not the "Give Peace a Chance" crowd that's created the current mess we're in. It's the corporate interest protections and Cold-war policies that have given power to the radical elements.

I don't have a link right now, but there's an excellent video online on how ISIS is recruiting the young and disenfranchised from the middle class both in the Middle East and Europe by presenting themselves as a better alternative to the current corrupt regimes (many of which are supported by the West), with very concrete goals and ideals.

This is very similar to the radicalization of the young in the 70's, when Communism promised a similar solution in many countries.

This all ties back to the way western elements have protected their interests by supporting dictators and fascists over the decades. It's easier to work out a mutually beneficial business deal with a dictator than a democratic government, which may or may not do what you want them to do. There's a good reason for the term "Banana Republic."

Over the last few decades, it has blown up in their faces... Iraq... Al Quaeda... ISIS... all linked to CIA interventionism in the Middle East in the past. And the rotten state of governance in the region simply provide more fuel to the fire.

There's no doubt ISIS is a threat now, and needs to be dealt with... but to paint it simply as a problem of religion is too pat. There are real and varied underlying social (and political) issues that need to be addressed in order to stamp out radicalism for good.

Islam highjacks the disenfranchised, and any movement associated with it - it's what it's always done. To ignore the religion is a fundamental mistake and not grounded in logic. What, then explains Islamic expansion into Europe that necessitated the Crusades? Also it still doesn't address the problem of when the movement becomes big enough to threaten the world. Who honestly cares about its origins? Do you suppose Islam will say "there you go, now live in your perfect social utopia we have created around the world".

Worryingly the Social Justice movement has seemingly taken up the cause of Islam, even though it must know that LGBT rights will be the first to go under an Islamic state. When truths like this are pointed out there's a sort of error in computation leading to posts saying they don't understand what I'm talking about, as if they're machines having a conflict of information thrown at them. Perfect dhimmitude.

As it stands, we now have a CSA bill requiring us by law to report Islamic extremism, but nothing on British Islam doing a root and branch reformation and cleaning up their mess as would be expected of Christianity. As a poster on The Times said:

So in addition to preparation and teaching, teachers are now supposed to be looking for evidence of:

a abusive parents

b malnutrition

c drug taking

d bullying

e self-harm

f female genital mutilation

g and now Islamic radicalisation

Additionally:

h do everything the Ofsted Mafia dictate

i prepare reports

j ensure they attend courses for professional updating

k take part in out-of-school activities

l attend meetings

m phone parents to ascertain why pupils are absent

n teach classes where up to 10 different languages are spoken

o attend parents evenings

p ??????????

Or another post exposing:

And what if the head of an Islamic school is the instigator of the hate preaching ? Has he forgotten about the Oldknow Academy in Birmingham had the head removed when children were led in anti-Christian chanting, subsidised trips to Mecca, stopped celebrating Christmas and all pupils had to learn Arabic. Cameron may say this is not hate preaching when it suits the appeasing speeches. This is "keep calm and carry on" buffoonery.

All so we can do our job and Muslims can return to their satellite news TV stations and Mosques. I don't think the people are going to stand for it, and speaking as a NHS worker and university student this adds to my already excessive workload. It's ridiculous. I won't really post so much here as it's hard to look at the opinion that these victims are being targeted not because of a religion but because of their ancestor's capitalist greed. It is very hard to read especially when dealing with white British patients who fought in WW2 to give you all the freedom you now enjoy, and may I say a tad disrespectful.

You've seen what this board has become recently with regards to the topic in being a relative ghost town because the equivalent of a nuke has just been detonated on free speech. I don't like it one bit.

And, because @Dotini loves conspiracy theories have a look at this

Personally I don't buy it. It's more likely the fact that we as a country are mired in debt to the Mid East and have little sovereign wealth in comparison and no access to oil. But far-right and general Muslim haters lap it up, and the evidence is a lot more plain to see in 2015 than it was in 2005.

EDIT: More long winded critique of it, but bear in mind this was written in 2011 so is dated

 

[TenEightyOne]

So in addition to preparation and teaching, teachers are now supposed to be looking for evidence of:

a abusive parents

b malnutrition

c drug taking

d bullying

e self-harm

f female genital mutilation

g and now Islamic radicalisation

Additionally:

h do everything the Ofsted Mafia dictate

i prepare reports

j ensure they attend courses for professional updating

k take part in out-of-school activities

l attend meetings

m phone parents to ascertain why pupils are absent

n teach classes where up to 10 different languages are spoken

o attend parents evenings

p ??????????

Yes, when you're in loco parentis it's part of the pastoral duty of care. That was the case when I was teaching and it hasn't changed in recent years. The poster says "now" as if it's all a recent development. You still seem to think that radicalisation, child abuse, reporting, meeting, or bullying are something new and exciting, they aren't. Multi-language classes aren't new either but I guess the more Eastern the languages become the more incensed you get.

 

[Cb]

@KSaiyu

As long as you compare religion with cold-blooded killers, you should get your school money back..

 

[KSaiyu]

It's all about opening your eyes. I'd still call @ECGadget my Brit brother and frankly I'd have more in common with him than most of the others here.

For instance, how many of you knew of a British woman beaten and racially abused the other day?

 

[Furinkazen]

It's all about opening your eyes. I'd still call @ECGadget my Brit brother and frankly I'd have more in common with him than most of the others here.

For instance, how many of you knew of a British woman beaten and racially abused the other day?

Whats special about that? Beatings and abuse aren't special.

 

[KSaiyu]

Whats special about that? Beatings and abuse aren't special.

It's covered up by mainstream media. It's all to fit narratives, to create context.

And guess what the first response is on a white national site to the story?

Spoiler

Hate and violence are not the answer. Attacking some random, innocent woman (who may not even have been a muslim for all the attacker knew) is nothing to be proud of. The answer is to stop mass migration, not to bully and persecute random individuals. I remember after the 7/7 bombings a group of skinheads attacked a young Sikh girl and beat her up. To me that was just cowardly and evil. I want to fight mass migration and to stop the movement of people from Africa into Europe. But I want to fight it by winning the argument and persuading people how dangerous multiculturalism is, not by mindless violence and cruelty.

Whole world out there.

 

[niky]

Islam highjacks the disenfranchised, and any movement associated with it - it's what it's always done.

Firstly, I've already warned you about keeping things in their place. You continuously cross-post on the same topics in different threads, and it makes it difficult to discuss anything rationally when you respond to a post from another thread in a different one.

Secondly, you can substitute Islam for radical Catholicism (Ireland, various "lone wolf" fundamentalist terrorists), Communism, Maoism, Personality Cults, Fascism, etcetera. Many of these things have intersected at one time or another. Yes, they all appeal to the disenfranchised, but it would be a mistake to generalize.

To ignore the religion is a fundamental mistake and not grounded in logic. What, then explains Islamic expansion into Europe that necessitated the Crusades?

-Citation needed-

From a sane source, please.

Also it still doesn't address the problem of when the movement becomes big enough to threaten the world. Who honestly cares about its origins? Do you suppose Islam will say "there you go, now live in your perfect social utopia we have created around the world".

Islam will say no such thing. ISIS is Islamic, but it is not all of Islam.

I don't think anyone, not even the Muslims on this board, is under the delusion that life under ISIS will be all peaches and cream. Which is why both Christians and Muslims in the Middle East are signing up for anti-ISIS militias.

Worryingly the Social Justice movement has seemingly taken up the cause of Islam,

-Citation required-

Do you mean the Social Justice system supports Muslim immigrants in general, or ISIS? Think carefully before you answer. The two may intersect, but are not identical.

even though it must know that LGBT rights will be the first to go under an Islamic state. When truths like this are pointed out there's a sort of error in computation leading to posts saying they don't understand what I'm talking about, as if they're machines having a conflict of information thrown at them. Perfect dhimmitude.

Wait, which LGBT groups are saying life will be great under ISIS?

As it stands, we now have a CSA bill requiring us by law to report Islamic extremism, but nothing on British Islam doing a root and branch reformation and cleaning up their mess as would be expected of Christianity.

So... Muslims don't teach at Universities?

Also, when has any government created a law forcing Christians to police their churches in recent times?

As a poster on The Times said:

So in addition to preparation and teaching, teachers are now supposed to be looking for evidence of:

a abusive parents

b malnutrition

c drug taking

d bullying

e self-harm

f female genital mutilation

g and now Islamic radicalisation

Additionally:

h do everything the Ofsted Mafia dictate

i prepare reports

j ensure they attend courses for professional updating

k take part in out-of-school activities

l attend meetings

m phone parents to ascertain why pupils are absent

n teach classes where up to 10 different languages are spoken

o attend parents evenings

p ??????????

a-g all come under the heading "watching your students for problematic behaviour", which is something we've been doing for decades, already.

My condolences to him, though. Teaching is, definitely, tough.

Or another post exposing:

And what if the head of an Islamic school is the instigator of the hate preaching ? Has he forgotten about the Oldknow Academy in Birmingham had the head removed when children were led in anti-Christian chanting, subsidised trips to Mecca, stopped celebrating Christmas and all pupils had to learn Arabic. Cameron may say this is not hate preaching when it suits the appeasing speeches. This is "keep calm and carry on" buffoonery.

Then the Muslim teachers at the school are now required by law to report their superiors. And government inspectors will be paying them many, many visits.

All so we can do our job and Muslims can return to their satellite news TV stations and Mosques. I don't think the people are going to stand for it, and speaking as a NHS worker and university student this adds to my already excessive workload. It's ridiculous.

You're required to report. Not to act as a government spy.

Or so I'd assume.

Reading through the report, the heaviest duty falls mostly on administrators in the selection of guest speakers and lecturers... can't say much about what NHS workers are required to do without a fuller reading of the bill.

I won't really post so much here as it's hard to look at the opinion that these victims are being targeted not because of a religion but because of their ancestor's capitalist greed.

The Kuwaitis who died in the Mosque bombing weren't targeted because of that.

If you missed the point, the point was that radicalism in the Middle East is not the result of the natural evolution of Islam, but of the confluence of Western interventionism, tribal/ethnic division, poverty, corruption and disenfranchisement.

It is these factors that allows groups like Al-Quaeda and ISIS to gain such power, where fundamentalist groups in the West can gather, at most, a few dozen or a few hundred followers.

To ignore the parts of the issues that give ISIS power is to ensure that even after their defeat (if they are to be defeated), new groups will rise in their place.

-

I cannot claim to be completely objective, but I have few illusions about this conflict. My country has been at war with its Muslim minority for nearly a Century. Muslim ghettoes are a dangerous place for outsiders to go. I have friends who have uprooted their families to leave conflict zones, being the target of extortion and violence by Islamic terrorists. Complaining about the need to screen for radicalism in schools? We've been doing that for decades.The school I graduated from was a prime recruiting ground for Communist insurgents back in the day, and we have to vet student "seminars" and "retreats" to make sure they're not indoctrination courses in disguise (yes, it happens).

And yet, my assistant is Muslim. We have a number of Muslim doctors in our hospital, treating Christian patients. We have a number of mixed-religion couples here, too. People who are sick of the fighting and who just want to get along. Co-habitation and peace is possible if both sides are willing to play ball.

Some aren't.

In the end, it's all about power. Religious ideology is a powerful tool for wielding that power. And thus the world finds itself confronting ISIS. But: That includes Christians and Muslims alike.

It is very hard to read especially when dealing with white British patients who fought in WW2 to give you all the freedom you now enjoy, and may I say a tad disrespectful.

American troops fought for my freedom. As did Christian and Muslim guerillas. When I refuse to paint all Muslims with the same blind, broad brush, it is not a sign of disrespect.

You've seen what this board has become recently with regards to the topic in being a relative ghost town because the equivalent of a nuke has just been detonated on free speech. I don't like it one bit.

And yet you're here. And we're discussing it.

And, because @Dotini loves conspiracy theories have a look at this

Personally I don't buy it. It's more likely the fact that we as a country are mired in debt to the Mid East and have little sovereign wealth in comparison and no access to oil. But far-right and general Muslim haters lap it up, and the evidence is a lot more plain to see in 2015 than it was in 2005.

EDIT: More long winded critique of it, but bear in mind this was written in 2011 so is dated

You do realize both links post retorts to some of the arguments you've put forward (especially the demographic one) in the past few weeks?

 

[KSaiyu]

The thing is...when you learn to not dismiss sources because of "lol Daily Mail" you can form your own opinions. The clues are all there, and it's up to Brits if they choose to listen to Cameron or Isis themselves

At the end of the day who gives a **** what the causes are. The fact is Rezgui was a pretty "westernised" Muslim who switched, believing the true Islam was worth dying over and taking almost 40 people along with him.

 

[Furinkazen]

The thing is...when you learn to not dismiss sources because of "lol Daily Mail" you can form your own opinions. The clues are all there, and it's up to Brits if they choose to listen to Cameron or Isis themselves

At the end of the day who gives a **** what the causes are. The fact is Rezgui was a pretty "westernised" Muslim who switched, believing the true Islam was worth dying over and taking almost 40 people along with him.

Thing is when get your head out of the sand, and actually respond to people's posts rather than your own vague incoherent ramblings, you might actually not make yourself look as ridiculous. If you consider daily mail a reliable source, then I'll go find my neighbour on end of road and treat him as my source of all information. This thread stopped being about France a long time ago when you decided to Derail it as another platform for your self-righteous bickering.

You can sub Muslim for anyone being radicalised.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

It's covered up by mainstream media. It's all to fit narratives, to create context.

And guess what the first response is on a white national site to the story?

Spoiler

Hate and violence are not the answer. Attacking some random, innocent woman (who may not even have been a muslim for all the attacker knew) is nothing to be proud of. The answer is to stop mass migration, not to bully and persecute random individuals. I remember after the 7/7 bombings a group of skinheads attacked a young Sikh girl and beat her up. To me that was just cowardly and evil. I want to fight mass migration and to stop the movement of people from Africa into Europe. But I want to fight it by winning the argument and persuading people how dangerous multiculturalism is, not by mindless violence and cruelty.

Whole world out there.

Is BBC not mainstream media? Link. Even EastEnders depicted something similar recently.

Also another hate crime: Link

Believe it or not bad things are happening all around the world all the time.

 

[KSaiyu]

Is BBC not mainstream media? Link. Even EastEnders depicted something similar recently.

Also another hate crime: Link

Believe it or not bad things are happening all around the world all the time.

That's BBC NI. There's been more I've seen on social media but it won't make it big because no-one wants to know how bad multiculturalism failed. Feel sorry for the indigenous as they've been sold down the river badly.

 

[Furinkazen]

That's BBC NI. There's been more I've seen on social media but it won't make it big because no-one wants to know how bad multiculturalism failed. Feel sorry for the indigenous as they've been sold down the river badly.

Still ignoring peoples posts I see because you cannot back up your own arguments...

 

[Imari]

Still ignoring peoples posts I see because you cannot back up your own arguments...

It's easy when the goalposts have legs.

Whatever you say will be taken as evidence to reinforce his views, matter how much you may think it points to the opposite.

 

[Tornado]

KSaiyu has done everything the Bible says! Even the stuff that contradicts the other stuff!

 

[Liquid]

So.

Was this attack on a gas refinery in France an isolated incident from a disgruntled ex-employee who was, granted, known to intelligence agencies or was it part of something wider?

 

[JKgo]

...I haven't been following the news of late; has anyone claim responsibilities yet?