Attack on gas plant in France.

[prisonermonkeys]

Yeah and a Brit rests his case.

I see what you did there - by labelling yourself as "a Brit", you deny Muslims inclusion within that national identity unless they prove themselves worthy of the title by your standards. Except that you don't have the right to do that, and I seriously doubt that most Britons would endorse your views - particularly seeing as how you warned that UKIP would try to generate support with arguments similar to yours. You demand that people change to suit your values and your ideals, but you go on the offensive if and when people make the same expectation of you.

A person capable of empathy and who is not blinded by his own prejudices or fear of outsiders rests his case.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Start, but not enough. Hundreds for that compared to thousands in multiple cities for Gaza.

Thousands for that but like I guessed it is not enough for you no matter which religion. Just seem to have a persecution complex of Muslims.

I see what you did there - by labelling yourself as "a Brit", you deny Muslims inclusion within that national identity unless they prove themselves worthy of the title by your standards. Except that you don't have the right to do that, and I seriously doubt that most Britons would endorse your views - particularly seeing as how you warned that UKIP would try to generate support with arguments similar to yours. You demand that people change to suit your values and your ideals, but you go on the offensive if and when people make the same expectation of you.

A person capable of empathy and who is not blinded by his own prejudices or fear of outsiders rests his case.

I wonder if he has realised the General Election has passed by, Nigel Farage lost his seat battle . It seems imprinted in his mind that minority means majority. Less than 0.03% of "British Muslims" joining "ISIS" is enough for rest of nation to turn on British Muslims and due to this UKIP will get more support. Reality is much different...

 

[Dotini]

No group has claimed responsibility for the strike yet, and it is unclear if this was an orchestrated strike for some faction, or a lone wolf incident.

 

[Carbonox]

"A Brit rests his case"

In other words you are seperating me from you by saying you are a Brit and I am not? If so, I have nothing further to say to you. I am fasting and I do not wish to invalidate my fast by getting angry with that deep insult to me.

What kind of a fast is it when one eats themselves full each night?

 

[Christian_C]

The same way whereby due to the rather early rising and late setting of the sun they have to wake up sometime around 4-5am, eat before 6 and then not eat again until almost 10pm at night. I know how irritable i get when i don't eat for that long and that's the point, you get angry when you're hungry and the test is to maintain your composure during such a time. Try it, it's not easy to those who it isn't a regular routine.

 

[Carbonox]

The same way whereby due to the rather early rising and late setting of the sun they have to wake up sometime around 4-5am, eat before 6 and then not eat again until almost 10pm at night. I know how irritable i get when i don't eat for that long and that's the point, you get angry when you're hungry and the test is to maintain your composure during such a time. Try it, it's not easy to those who it isn't a regular routine.

If I'm ever going to fast, I'll do it the proper way for my health's sake, thank you. More rational that way.

 

[Dotini]

If I'm ever going to fast, I'll do it the proper way for my health's sake, thank you. More rational that way.

Ritual fasting is both conscious and deliberate, and not without its rationale. It's probably not very polite to imply otherwise.

 

[ECGadget]

What kind of a fast is it when one eats themselves full each night?

Thank you for asking that, mate

The fast in a literal sense is to yes, abstain from food and drink, intimacy and smoking etc from Dawn until Dusk. (I believe there are other regulations in place for areas such as North sweden where that results in barely any time between the two or something). But there is far more to fasting than just that, which is only the physical part of it in a sense.

So roughly said, fasting is more about spiritual awareness than a physical hunger. It helps a Muslim to:
- Understand a fraction of what the people who have nothing to eat or drink feel (This is not just Muslims, but moreso everybody on earth who suffers like this)
- It builds love for God in a way, because we would rather be eating than fasting for the most part. But we do it because we have been asked to do it.
- It helps a Muslim to learn patience. We all go through a normal daily life whilst fasting and sure we feel hungy and thirsty, don't get me wrong! But we learn that we need to be patient through it, just like we should be when any hardship comes upon us.
- It helps a Muslim to learn to control his anger, because a hungry man is an angry man. But Muhammad (pbuh) says "The strong man is not the one who is strong in wrestling, but the one who controls himself in anger".

And so on and so forth. Of course there is also the flip side which is people who fast do tend to stuff their faces when they break their fast, sort of making up for all the lost food. In fact some people eat MORE in Ramadhan than any other time of the year. But that is something that has come through tradition rather than the meaning of fasting in itself and it is something that is slowly changing.

The actual advice that Muslims have been given from Muhammad regarding Ramadhan goes something like this:
- Eat a light meal before starting a fast (For me that is cereal. I am addicted to Kelloggs Cereals)
- Keep meals when breaking the fast light and eat a few dates/water to start with. I believe the date, like a banana, provides a slow release of energy which helps
- Do even more than normal to help the world (humanitarian aid, cleaning etc) This is why Muslims give more to charity in Ramadhan
- Be extra careful to refrain from gossip etc
- Be more patient and humble.


And remember, IF a Muslim fasts and that fast will make him/her sick, they are exempt from the fast until they can. Same goes for one who is pregnant, travelling, mentally ill, too old to weak to fast. They are all exempt from fasting.

Also, in terms of health:
http://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/Healthyramadan/Pages/fastingandhealth.aspx
http://www.foxnews.com/health/2015/03/20/fasting-for-your-health-harmful-or-helpful/
http://www1.rmit.edu.au/students/health/ramadan
https://uk.lifestyle.yahoo.com/7-surprising-health-benefits-ramadan-151014439.html
http://thinkprogress.org/health/2015/06/19/3671578/health-benefits-of-fasting-during-ramadan/
http://edition.cnn.com/2003/HEALTH/11/06/ramadan.fasting/

As you can see, fasting is actually quite benificial. However, that is only if done right. And there are many Muslims around the world who do fast in a way that is probably not good for their health. On occasion I have done so myself. In fact I recall one time a few years ago I made a really stupid move and ended up having to break my fast because I was becoming ill due to it. And yes, in summer it is harder than winter in places like the UK, no doubt. But the exemptions are there and are there to be used if needed. I hope that helps!

 

[Saidur_Ali]

What kind of a fast is it when one eats themselves full each night?

I personally don't eat till I'm full, eat slightly more than I usually do at that time.

The same way whereby due to the rather early rising and late setting of the sun they have to wake up sometime around 4-5am, eat before 6 and then not eat again until almost 10pm at night. I know how irritable i get when i don't eat for that long and that's the point, you get angry when you're hungry and the test is to maintain your composure during such a time. Try it, it's not easy to those who it isn't a regular routine.

Around 3AM-9.30PM this year in UK where I live.

 

[Imari]

I personally don't eat till I'm full, eat slightly more than I usually do at that time.

Around 3AM-9.30PM this year in UK where I live.

It did strike me the other day that Muslims in the Southern Hemisphere have it a bit easier than those in the Northern Hemisphere. It's only maybe 7am to 5pm here at the moment.

 

[ECGadget]

It did strike me the other day that Muslims in the Southern Hemisphere have it a bit easier than those in the Northern Hemisphere. It's only maybe 7am to 5pm here at the moment.

Due to the Lunar calendar it swings around. So in about sixteen years our fasts will be around 6am-4pm, whilst in the south it will be around what we have now ^^

 

[KSaiyu]

* I won't respond until after 11pm in light of your fasting, just saw this.

 

[Imari]

Due to the Lunar calendar it swings around. So in about sixteen years our fasts will be around 6am-4pm, whilst in the south it will be around what we have now ^^

Oh right, that's kind of interesting. Of course I had mistakenly assumed that it was the same time every year, and so the northies got shafted. Today I learned something new.

 

[ECGadget]

Oh right, that's kind of interesting. Of course I had mistakenly assumed that it was the same time every year, and so the northies got shafted. Today I learned something new.

Haha, that would really be tough on us! Glad to have helped mate! The reason being is that the Lunar calendar has 354 (??) days as opposed to 365.21 days so each year it moves around ten days. I'll tell you something though, even though it is easier to fast in winter, sometimes because of the cold you really get hungry! Should just hibernate



And @KSaiyu I already read your response. I still have nothing to say to you.

 

[Christian_C]

I too didn't realise it moved as someone I know is fasting during a similar time to last year so I assumed (ignorantly) that it was at a fixed point in the year. Also 3am seems extreme? i checked the sunrise and sunset times for where I am (birmingham) and it appeared to suggest approximately 5 am for sunrise and 9:30 pm for sunset.

 

[Dennisch]

No group has claimed responsibility for the strike yet, and it is unclear if this was an orchestrated strike for some faction, or a lone wolf incident.

It seems to be that it was a confused, disgruntled (ex-) employee, who in the past had contact with radicals.

 

[ECGadget]

I too didn't realise it moved as someone I know is fasting during a similar time to last year so I assumed (ignorantly) that it was at a fixed point in the year. Also 3am seems extreme? i checked the sunrise and sunset times for where I am (birmingham) and it appeared to suggest approximately 5 am for sunrise and 9:30 pm for sunset.

The fast is from Dawn to Dusk, not sunrise to dusk which in Britain is open to a little opinion. There are three types of dawn measurement: Astronomical, Nautical and Civil.

Astronomical Dawn is the dawn where the sun is about 18 degrees or so below the horizon. Nautical dawn is around 12 degrees, which is when you can make out ships. Different Mosques use one or the other generally and though some debates have popped up as to which is correct the only concern for the general Muslim public is that they follow the usual Mosque they follow. As such, times to start fasting in the UK around June tend between 0130 and 0300 ish. To be honest, this topic has been subject of debate for a few years now with the scholars trying to work out which dawn to follow, especially in the UK

 

[Dotini]

It seems to be that it was a confused, disgruntled (ex-) employee, who in the past had contact with radicals.

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20150627/eu--france-attack-24fc921b96.html

More details on the investigation. Apparently he took a selfie with the sliced off head and posted it to an address in Canada.

 

[KSaiyu]

He's a radical. As such he's representive of ISIS.

 

[Dennisch]

He's a radical. As such he's representive of ISIS.

That lunatic who shot 9 people in a church in the USA was quite radical too. Must have represented IS too.

 

[KSaiyu]

No because he's a radical member of the American far-right. There is no umbrella for the international far-right, let alone American.

 

[Furinkazen]

He's a radical. As such he's representive of ISIS.

No because he's a radical member of the American far-right. There is no umbrella for the international far-right, let alone American.

Conflicting logic is conflicting. Make up your mind if all radicals are ISIS-affiliated or not.

 

[KSaiyu]

It's not conflicting. The guy is a known Islamic radical. Do I have to hold your hand and put Islamic radical even though it should be patently obvious that's what he is?

Not all Islamic radicals are to do with ISIS however. Hamas would take a very dim view if you associated their acts with the group.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

There is no umbrella for the international far-right, let alone American.

That's funny, because you have repeatedly grouped everyone belonging to the political left - and not just the far left; everyone - under the one umbrella in the past.

Not all Islamic radicals are to do with ISIS however.

Really?

Then why did you say this?

He's a radical. As such he's representive of ISIS.

 

[Dotini]

All Sunnis, the majority, are potentially subject to the Caliphate, if not all Shia, if I understand it right. Isn't Hamas nominally Sunni? ISIS/Caliphate would, if it could, be an umbrella unlike any other.

 

[KSaiyu]

You'd think, but it's not so simple.

Hamas have a clear objective, and they're not overly religious. ISIS want to wage war with everyone and conquer the world, enslaving us all to Islam. Hamas says screw you guys, we're honoring the truce agreement and want nothing to do with the rocket firing that happened a while back in Israel. They don't want complete annhilation by Israel, which Israel may be justified to do if they associate with ISIS.

 

[DK]

Eh, to be fair, it's unlikely you'll find an international far-right grouping, because every constituent group (e.g. Britain First) would believe that some other constituent groups (e.g. Golden Dawn) are racially inferior.

 

[Dotini]

You'd think, but it's not so simple.

Hamas have a clear objective, and they're not overly religious. ISIS want to wage war with everyone and conquer the world, enslaving us all to Islam. Hamas says screw you guys, we're honoring the truce agreement and want nothing to do with the rocket firing that happened a while back in Israel. They don't want complete annhilation by Israel, which Israel may be justified to do if they associate with ISIS.

I agree that Hamas is somewhat secular and has its throat in the grip of Israel.

But I also think ISIS is run, in part, on the inside by secular Baathist Revolutionary guards left over from the Saddam Hussein regime. In other words, ISIS is invested with the elite of the Sunni world, and the religious extremism is in part a facade and a useful tool of recreating the Caliphate.

 

[KSaiyu]

Eh, to be fair, it's unlikely you'll find an international far-right grouping, because every constituent group (e.g. Britain First) would believe that some other constituent groups (e.g. Golden Dawn) are racially inferior.

Oh there definitely could be. Make no mistake, nationalism/racial supremacism is not exclusive to Islam and a uniting of white supremacists would start to look a whole lot more attractive in the face of Islamic expansion. You want proof? Head on over to Stormfront and look under the international section. You'll find sub forums which span the globe - you even have ones in Spanish and Portuguese. Consider that I've noted comments on The Times of all places (a fee paying site) asking where is left for the White British to go.

I agree that Hamas is somewhat secular and has its throat in the grip of Israel.

But I also think ISIS is run, in part, on the inside by secular Baathist Revolutionary guards left over from the Saddam Hussein regime. In other words, ISIS is invested with the elite of the Sunni world, and the religious extremism is in part a facade and a useful tool of recreating the Caliphate.

It may be enforced by them, but make no mistake this is a Caliphate with Islamic roots. It's rise was most notable under an Islamic cleric with an all too familiar backstory.

Al-Baghdadi is believed to have been born near Samarra, Iraq, in 1971.[19] In his teens Baghdadi had a passion for football. In an interview with The Daily Telegraph, contemporaries of Baghdadi trace how he went from being a shy, unimpressive, religious scholar and man who eschewed violence, to an infamously dangerous extremist. For more than a decade, until 2004, he lived in a room attached to a small local mosque in Tobchi, a poor and ramshackle neighbourhood on the western fringes of Baghdad, inhabited by both Shia and Sunni Muslim residents

ISIS itself originated from Al Qaeda of Iraq and groups under the Mujahideen Shura Council. Now, everyone (well, not some on GTP anyway) recognises that there's no draw like a holy draw, and by being a literal Islamic caliphate it can legitimately claim to represent every Muslim on the planet. This scares everyone, not least of which Al Qaeda. Everyone is quick to denounce them as un-Islamic (including Al Qaeda) therefore because deep down they know they are very Islamic and with enough manpower be able to attempt to destroy anyone (including the old school Hamas/Hezbollah etc) who gets in its way.

 

[Dotini]

It may be enforced by them, but make no mistake this is a Caliphate with Islamic roots. It's rise was most notable under an Islamic cleric with an all too familiar backstory.

Al-Baghdadi is believed to have been born near Samarra, Iraq, in 1971.[19] In his teens Baghdadi had a passion for football. In an interview with The Daily Telegraph, contemporaries of Baghdadi trace how he went from being a shy, unimpressive, religious scholar and man who eschewed violence, to an infamously dangerous extremist. For more than a decade, until 2004, he lived in a room attached to a small local mosque in Tobchi, a poor and ramshackle neighbourhood on the western fringes of Baghdad, inhabited by both Shia and Sunni Muslim residents

ISIS itself originated from Al Qaeda of Iraq and groups under the Mujahideen Shura Council. Now, everyone (well, not some on GTP anyway) recognises that there's no draw like a holy draw, and by being a literal Islamic caliphate it can legitimately claim to represent every Muslim on the planet. This scares everyone, not least of which Al Qaeda. Everyone is quick to denounce them as un-Islamic (including Al Qaeda) therefore because deep down they know they are very Islamic and with enough manpower be able to attempt to destroy anyone (including the old school Hamas/Hezbollah etc) who gets in its way.

IMO, al-Baghdadi is a tool, even an employee, of ISIS. He is not the beating heart of ISIS.