- 29,317
- Glasgow
- GTP_Mars
No use... they're cold-blooded, apparently.
Attack on magazine Charlie Hebdo in Paris.
- Thread starter Dennisch
- 897 comments
- 38,052 views
- 31,681
- Buckwheat City
- Dennisch
I do wonder how much forest combat training they received in the desert.
- 6,425
- KCCO
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
And people like you want to try and force the world to fit in with how they think it should be because they're so convinced that they are right. The problem is that you don't provide a shred of evidence to support your beliefs, and that makes you dangerous.
http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2015-...-support-charlie-hebdo-not-endorse-it/6007836
- 31,681
- Buckwheat City
- Dennisch
Go live your delusional life. Keep on thinking that you are right. I know I am. I'm happy with my Muslim neighbours. My very multicultural inlaws. My multicultural friends.
Let us know when reality hits you in the face. 👍
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
And here we come to the crux of your attitude. You "know" that you are right, even though you don't feel the need to demonstrate it - we just have to take your word for it. Meanwhile, anyone who is opposed to you only "thinks" that they are right, and so they are blinded to your enlightenment by their own delusions - and they are only "deluded" because you say so. Marine Le Pen is looking to get elected on a similar platform.
- 31,681
- Buckwheat City
- Dennisch
What more do you want to know of me? The way I vote? You'll be surprised that it isn't the far right. I don't like people like Le Pen or Wilders in power. The same goes for the far left.
I want people to be able to say and criticize as far as the law allows. Hate speech and the call for killing of anyone, religious or not is not done in my book. I'm indecisive about the death penalty. I'm pro euthanasia. Pro abortion.
Want to be religious? Go ahead. Just don't go extremism.
I want to be able to have heated discussions with people like you, without the danger or having my head cut off of my chest full of AK bullets because someone disagrees with me. Extremism is an evil the world doesn't need. But we won't get rid of it by giving in to terror. If we did I most likely would be speaking German. Freedom is something we need to cherish. A couple of idiots with guns aren't going to take that away from us.
- 2,228
- Bielefeld
- tarnheld
The killed cartoonists were not racist, for example they did this poster for MRAP, an organization against racism: (the text says: "I would hire you, but I don't like the color of ... uh ... your tie!", captions: Break the silence; discrimination, open your eyes; campaign to combat racial discrimination).
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- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
And I want people to exercise common sense and good judgement when they say what they say, and to realise that they can't hide behind free speech if it upsets someone. I never said Charlie Hebdo had it coming or brought it on themselves - you just assumed that I felt that way because I don't share the same opinion on free speech. If you read the article I linked to, this stands out:
Now maybe all of this has been shaped by our Racial Discrimination Act, which makes it a crime to use language that offends, insults, demeans or belittles anyone on the basis of their race. It doesn't mean that you can't say it - just that if you do, then you need to be prepared to face up to the consequences.
That's one example, and one example does not excuse it. It doesn't matter if they are targeting everyone when they consistently target everyone with the same stereotypical caricatures.
- 31,681
- Buckwheat City
- Dennisch
Then why aren't there massive protests against Hebdo by the Muslim community? Because most of them really don't care about the magazine. They prefer that freedom of speech stays as it is. That's why pretty much every Muslim you will talk to in Europe condemns the attack and not the magazine.
If something upsets you, you start a dialogue. Words won't kill anyone.
It seems that the PC crowd cries harder for action than the actual "victims".
If something upsets you, you start a dialogue. Words won't kill anyone.
It seems that the PC crowd cries harder for action than the actual "victims".
- 2,228
- Bielefeld
- tarnheld
Excuse what?
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
- 9,295
- Duisburg
What does "hiding behind free speech" mean in this context? Not having to fear any consequences? Well, if that's the case, I agree with you, but this isn't just any consequence.
Intentionally insulting someone might not be nice, but if I had to pick, I'd say blowing a fuse big time as soon as one feels insulted is the bigger issue. Bottom line is, nobody should ever have to fear for their very life because of something they said; your right to life should never be violated because of it.
I actually think that the very point of the freedom of speech is to guarantee a person the ability to criticise those who do not wish to be criticised, by the way... But that's just my opinion.
- 87,292
- Rule 12
- GTP_Famine
Who was hiding? I mean, aside from the two cowards currently lurking in a French forest, natch.Charb
Incidentally, does your Racial Discrimination Act also make it a crime to use language that offends, insults, demeans or belittles anyone on the basis of their religion?
- 2,228
- Bielefeld
- tarnheld
Take my excuse for drawing such terrible cartoons as they are inhibited to do so, and be assured they won't do it again.
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
Yes, it does - even if race does not equal religion. The wording of the Act is broad enough that it has become a catch-all for any kind of discriminatory language. People are very rarely prosecuted under it; it works best as a deterrent, or more accurately, a clear obstacle. Like I said, it doesn't outlaw discriminatory language - it just acts as a reminder that if you discriminate, then you need to accept the consequences.
- 44,185
- Blackburn
- Furinkazen_54
- 31,681
- Buckwheat City
- Dennisch
So what you are trying to tell us that you have less freedom of speech as us.
- 87,292
- Rule 12
- GTP_Famine
That's interesting, given that anyone can take offence at anything for any reason at any time - I was reading a probably apocryphal story today about a woman taking offence at a (female) service worker calling a (male) customer "sir", as it perpetuates "rape culture". It's a wonder it doesn't clog the courts up.
Mind you, we're busy locking up people who repeat jokes about high casualty events and crimes on Twitter.
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
No, we have the same amount. We just have a law that amounts to "sure, you can say it - but if you do, you can't hide behind freedom of speech if someone takes offence", largely because we also have freedom from persecution, and we consider both to be equally important. Discrimination is a form of persecution, and so someone engaging in free speech does not get to override someone else's freedom from persecution.
- 15,994
- United Kingdom
- haitch40
- Xbox?
Now for a moment of logic is weird.
The stuff they were printing can be attacked with the same liberal principles that are being used to defend it. Going back to Mill. Specifically the state should restrict freedoms when it starts to infringe upon the freedoms of another person idea ie the harm principle.
Now it has happened before that innocent people are attacked for one group's actions. Therefore one could argue that publishing this stuff should not be allowed under even a very liberal government.
Now as for my own opinion I haven't really been following the story so I need to read a bit.
The stuff they were printing can be attacked with the same liberal principles that are being used to defend it. Going back to Mill. Specifically the state should restrict freedoms when it starts to infringe upon the freedoms of another person idea ie the harm principle.
Now it has happened before that innocent people are attacked for one group's actions. Therefore one could argue that publishing this stuff should not be allowed under even a very liberal government.
Now as for my own opinion I haven't really been following the story so I need to read a bit.
- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
So someone was persecuted by a cartoon? How does that work?
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
In practicality, it's difficult to enforce. The only really notable case was Andrew Bolt, a conservative political commentator (think of a really smug Bill O'Reilly who still think he's the voice of the people) who published some comments deemed to be offensive in an opinion piece. And it was only because he published them that he could be prosecuted.
Discrimination is a bit of a touchy issue for us. We have a very long history, from the White Australia Policy to the Stolen Generation, of persecuting and discriminating against minorities.
- 87,292
- Rule 12
- GTP_Famine
We captured black people in Africa, put them in chains and sold them in the colonies.
That was about 700 years after we first marched into the Middle East and declaring they were all wrong for believing in the wrong thing because our beliefs were right and slaughtering them on that basis.
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
Well, you set the laws that you think are best for you, and we'll set the laws that we think are best for us.
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