Audio Improvements May Not be Ready for Gran Turismo 6 | Kaz Interview

[wowbaggerBR]

I'm sure TD feels that he has now proven that it's not so absurd that someone would pay for an empty GT case because he did. I'm sure if you came up with some other outrageous (to most of the world anyway) statement he'd have an answer for that too.

"I heard that some fanboys toots smell like flowers"

"Well you know, just the other day my friend and I were stuck in an elevator and I let one rip. My friend turned to me and said, Wow dude, your toots smell like roses, keep playing GT6!!"

To better understand him, just look into this.

 

[another_jakhole]

It's silly to add staff if you need them, and/or contract work out? Please explain why it's silly.

50K (Canadian or yen?) a year per (car) modeler SEEMS low. But that's not the only problem. Where do you get the numbers you calculated, and how do you know to where and how money is allocated for every sector of PD?

I said it was silly, because this is a thread about the sound department and you're saying that adding more people will help? I don't understand. How do we even know what the hiring process there is like and what the prerequisites are?

Do you stir things up just for the hell out of, are you really that aloof? I can't recall you adding anything of value to these boards.

I think you're right. Snap.

Here's an idea. What if PD hired a clone of Kaz, the man who we refer to as "the Man himself", to make production as efficient as possible? Or a cyborg to overlook what the team and Kaz do? Maybe?

And hold on with the double standard (not trying to troll you, Johnnypenso, honestly), but HAL20xx, this is the time when people get crazy. So let me let loose, just this once... again.

 

[Johnnypenso]

50K (Canadian or yen?) a year per (car) modeler SEEMS low. But that's not the only problem. Where do you get the numbers you calculated, and how do you know to where and how money is allocated for every sector of PD?

I said it was silly, because this is a thread about the sound department and you're saying that adding more people will help? I don't understand. How do we even know what the hiring process there is like and what the prerequisites are?

You don't understand that bringing more people onboard to finish something that is unfinished will help? That's your position?

 

[another_jakhole]

You don't understand that bringing more people onboard to finish something that is unfinished will help? That's your position?

The sound department. The physics department (which only has less than ten people). You can't just bring a bunch of new people into the equation and expect production/development in those areas to double. My "Clone Kaz" "IDEA" had a point to it. If everyone was on the same page and didn't need to start afresh (very few people have left PD since PD became known as PD) including being equally qualified, then I wouldn't see a problem with more employees working on the sounds (and physics).

Then, there's the numbers. That's the greater bit that I was referring to as "silly." HAL20ZZZXX has to blow it out of proportion and call me a bum. I'm not a bum. I'm just aloof. Oh wait . Damn my self-complex!

 

[Johnnypenso]

The sound department. The physics department (which only has less than ten people). You can't just bring a bunch of new people into the equation and expect production/development in those areas to double. My "Clone Kaz" "IDEA" had a point to it. If everyone was on the same page and didn't need to start afresh (very few people have left PD since PD became known as PD) including being equally qualified, then I wouldn't see a problem with more employees working on the sounds (and physics).

Then, there's the numbers. That's the greater bit that I was referring to as "silly." HAL20ZZZXX has to blow it out of proportion and call me a bum. I'm not a bum. I'm just aloof. Oh wait . Damn my self-complex!

You can't just bring in new people and expect production to double? Why not? Is there something so special and unique about PD that you can't find anyone qualified to work there and work them in with a few weeks of in house training? What do you think they are doing there building a Star Trek style transporter?

 

[Imari]

You can't just bring a bunch of new people into the equation and expect production/development in those areas to double.

They could just as well hire people that have experience beyond what PD have now. They wouldn't be dragging the team down, they'd be elevating it beyond what is currently possible.

This is not uncommon in many industries, where a competitor has a superior product. Easiest way to compete: hire their top guy. There's a whole range of contract legalese that was evolved purely to deal with this issue.

Like anything, there's ways of doing hiring right and doing hiring wrong. Doing it wrong can be worse than doing nothing at all. Doing it right should be of benefit to the company within a very short time frame. It somewhat relies on having an HR department that knows what they're doing, and managers that know what skills they need to bring in.

 

[wowbaggerBR]

They could just as well hire people that have experience beyond what PD have now. They wouldn't be dragging the team down, they'd be elevating it beyond what is currently possible.

This is not uncommon in many industries, where a competitor has a superior product. Easiest way to compete: hire their top guy. There's a whole range of contract legalese that was evolved purely to deal with this issue.

The environment where this is more common is the motorsport. Some competitor ends up with a very better car. How can you be better in the next season? Well, for next year, just hire the guy who develop the winner car. Won't solve all problems, but it is a big help.

But, I don't know, maybe Kaz and PD aren't aware about the inner works of this kind of sport.

 

[trustjab]

He has hired staff. You guys quote a certain number but he expanded and moved his work just recently. The facts are on these threads.

 

[tpark103]

Personally I played the first 1.5 years without noticing the sound. Then these forums started out of no where. I'll be happy when and if they patch the sound but, for me it's not a make or break factor. The in car view I'll admit has a awful noise but, I haven't sat in a race car before so I wouldn't know what it would sound like while being driven other than what I see on TV. I do know what a passenger car sounds like and to be honest, some of them sound almost silent in the cabin.
Whatever PD decides to do with the sound I'm confident that this will be the best iteration of GT to date.

 

[wowbaggerBR]

Personally I played the first 1.5 years without noticing the sound. Then these forums started out of no where. I'll be happy when and if they patch the sound but, for me it's not a make or break factor. The in car view I'll admit has a awful noise but, I haven't sat in a race car before so I wouldn't know what it would sound like while being driven other than what I see on TV. I do know what a passenger car sounds like and to be honest, some of them sound almost silent in the cabin.
Whatever PD decides to do with the sound I'm confident that this will be the best iteration of GT to date.

You've got to consider that, as time goes by, newer racing games sounds better, so the comparison starts to point out how awful made the sound of GT are.

 

[machschnel]

He has hired staff.

Really?

I remember seeing something about a "large day one patch" and "sounds won't be ready on release". Those quotes are indicative of either a workforce that is incompetent or a workforce that is undersize.

I prefer to thing it's the latter.

"He" can hire as much staff as "he" wants, but if the game is released (once again) in an unfinished state, maybe "he" needs more?

 

[trustjab]

Really?

I remember seeing something about a "large day one patch" and "sounds won't be ready on release". Those quotes are indicative of either a workforce that is incompetent or a workforce that is undersize.

I prefer to thing it's the latter.

"He" can hire as much staff as "he" wants, but if the game is released (once again) in an unfinished state, maybe "he" needs more?

No. You don't have any idea if there is a deadline set by SCE or what. Just because his team increased in number doesn't magically make everything better, nor completed in time for a set release. DLC is also part of the game, but added for a reason, money. Does that mean they didn't finish that content because they're understaffed? Theres an argument for each side.

 

[Imari]

He has hired staff. You guys quote a certain number but he expanded and moved his work just recently. The facts are on these threads.

How recently are you talking? They currently have three offices, two in Tokyo and one in Fukuoka. Website says over 140 employees, so 150 is a reasonable estimate.

You want to see what they're hiring for now?

http://www.polyphony.co.jp/recruitment/index.html

Full time:
3D Designers - paying 4-7 million yen, around $40-70k USD.
Software Engineers, Network Engineers - paying $60-100k USD.

Part time:
Online Operations
Web Production and Editorial
HTML Programmers
3D Design assistants
Graphic Design assistants

So, the more you know. They are not hiring for sound. This doesn't rule out them doing headhunting, but they're not specifically looking to hire more bodies for that particular problem.

You don't have any idea if there is a deadline set by SCE or what.

Of course there are deadlines. It's a commercial product. There are always deadlines. A big part of business is working within the deadlines you're given.

The reason there is a big patch is that they missed the deadline for going gold. Sounds at least, will be even later than that, and we don't know if any other content or features are getting pushed back as well.

 

[trustjab]

So you proved my point. I suggest you watch the "Kaz" movie trailer, theres a number in there if you listen carefully.

 

[Imari]

So you proved my point. I suggest you watch the "Kaz" movie trailer, theres a number in there if you listen carefully.

What point did I prove?

And you can't possibly be talking about where it says 271 men in that trailer. Point me to what I'm supposed to be seeing.

 

[trustjab]

You just said it. I guess that number is not pertaining to his team and was mentioned for no reason.

 

[Kent]

Personally, I don't care about excuses, the number of employees, or due dates. This is clearly PD and Kaz saying, I'm not sorry and I'm not releasing a finished product but please buy it still because I promise everything you want will come in DLC.

This is the sort of thing that will keep me from buying another GT game unless there is absolutely nothing else for the PS4. For now, on the PS3, I'd rather just keep playing GT5 on occasion and pretending it still has the impact previous GT games had on me.

I'd much rather see release dates get pushed back and have a properly produced game than see earlier release dates and an incomplete game. :facepalm:
Over the years they never showed a concern for pushing back release dates... Maybe this time it's not because of Fans but instead Buyers, as in the buyers they aren't going to have if the game releases any later and the majority of GT players decide $60 is quite a large portion of the $400 we'll need for a PS4?

 

[JTB10000]

I hope you guys know the Kaz and PD are really trying their best on the sounds. At least acknowledge that.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I hope you guys know the Kaz and PD are really trying their best on the sounds. At least acknowledge that.

I would...if I was a grade 2 teacher. This isn't grade 2, it's the business world, and "trying hard" isn't good enough and gains you no brownie points or customer loyalty.

 

[ShiftingGears]

You just said it. I guess that number is not pertaining to his team and was mentioned for no reason.

It has nothing to do with PD, correct. He was comparing Kaz to Magellan.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferdinand_Magellan

"The crew of about 270 included men from several nations: including Portuguese, Spanish, Italians, Germans, Flemish, Greeks, English and French."

 

[NOSWaster]

I honestly have to say that I'm not thrilled that the sounds won't be updated for GT6 at launch, but I can deal with it so long as they come around in a future update.

 

[Imari]

You just said it. I guess that number is not pertaining to his team and was mentioned for no reason.

You do crack me up sometimes. You carry on, we'll be back here in the real world where the workforce of PD didn't suddenly jump from ~150 to 270 while no one was looking.

 

[Tenacious D]

There is no real incentive for PD to make a good game, other than their own personal pride.

Well, describe everyone who ever made anything in human history, will ya.

False premises hurt arguments and causes, but that's pretty much how every argument runs here.

"All the sounds in GT5 suck. Therefore, how can you trust PD to make good sounds in the future?"

"GT5 is such a rotten game, but it sold so well, what's stopping PD from selling NFS garbage till the end of time if people will just keep buying it?"

Polyphony Digital isn't going to do that, because that's not who they are. We fans stick by them because we know who they are, and we see what they try to accomplish for us. The physics aren't NFS physics. There are cars that sound outstanding. Including the Mk III Supra which really does sound like a little school bus in real life. PD gets it right, those other guys aren't even close. I support Kaz and the team because they care about this thing they're creating, some kind of cyclopedia of cars fairly realistically portrayed in a videogame format. I share in their vision and their goal and the joy of cars they do what they can to instill in this game.

You don't grab people at random and say, "Paint a masterpiece" or "compose the best music ever." If you do, you end up with issues like a certain competitor. Sure, Gran Turismo has its own issues, especially some whoppers in GT5. But a million more people bought GT5 since the holidays, and they don't see such an empty glass as you guys do. Clearly, I don't either.

You can say I'm making excuses, or I'm a fanboy or whatever, I don't care. No developer has the mojo that Polyphony does, or delivers such a refined driving experience. For me.

Your deliverance may vary.

 

[CorvetteConquer]

You can say I'm making excuses, or I'm a fanboy or whatever, I don't care. No developer has the mojo that Polyphony does, or delivers such a refined driving experience. For me.

I'd say you do both quite often. Honest is the best policy!

PD are understaffed and overworked. Add 50-100 more employees and we'd probably see a new Gran Turismo much more quickly (2 years). It's disappointing to know that this generation's average for a GT release is 4 years. That's...terrible, especially for a series of this size and popularity. I think most of our frustrations come from the idea that PD can accomplish so much more with the right focus and the appropriate amount of staff to achieve it.

Clearly, PD's work is a reflection of Kaz: a cluttered, eccentric mind filled with magnificent ideas but of course, some worthless ones). The result is long-development times and 12 + months of updating to "complete" the game.

Sales numbers aside, we all want the series to do things well and to thrive again. We want the interesting and innovative gameplay of the past, but we also don't want to be stuck in the past like we were in GT5. I suppose what separates the fanboys (I hate using this word, by the way) from the non-fanboys is that when a series dies because of its own failings, the non-fanboys will not shed a tear because they will have offered ALL their help, criticism and suggestions to the developer. At some point, you got to save yourself.

 

[wowbaggerBR]

There are cars that sound outstanding. Including the Mk III Supra which really does sound like a little school bus in real life.

Ok, I bite. You said "are", plural. So give us other examples.

 

[Chippy569]

Including the Mk III Supra which really does sound like a little school bus in real life.

It was a bit tougher finding a GT5 YT clip than I thought it would be, here's the best I could find.


Here's a slightly-not-stock real car (it's got a turboback 3" exhaust) (skip ahead to like :52)


it's missing all of the aggression, the bassy 6cyl-ness, the "balls" if you will.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

^ Not stock ... Try a stock exhaust MKIII Supra.

 

[Chippy569]

^ Not stock ... Try a stock exhaust MKIII Supra.

ha, finding a video of a stock one is proving to be needle in a fleet of haystacks.

This one has a downpipe...


this one claims to be stock (although it's N/A)


still looking.

 

[trustjab]

You do crack me up sometimes. You carry on, we'll be back here in the real world where the workforce of PD didn't suddenly jump from ~150 to 270 while no one was looking.

Thats great. Glad you laughed. I didnt imply he had 270 people. I said he hired people. And then you proved it. I even said "I guess they mentioned that number for no reason." That's the real world, my typed words on your screen.

 

[Johnnypenso]

What point did I prove?

And you can't possibly be talking about where it says 271 men in that trailer. Point me to what I'm supposed to be seeing.

You just said it. I guess that number is not pertaining to his team and was mentioned for no reason.

Thats great. Glad you laughed. I didnt imply he had 270 people. I said he hired people. And then you proved it. I even said "I guess they mentioned that number for no reason." That's the real world, my typed words on your screen.

Sounds to me like you didn't imply he had 270 people, you made a direct reference to that number in your post above. Quoting sucks eh?