Audio Improvements May Not be Ready for Gran Turismo 6 | Kaz Interview

  • Thread starter Kitten
  • 214 comments
  • 12,863 views
maxpontiac
Now while I do see how or better yet, why some of the members here are frustrated over the audio issues, I am forced to agree with you.

PDI has been vocal as of late over how they are working on the sounds and yet, people are constantly complaining.đź‘Ž
Click to expand...
Constantly for always.
đź‘Ť
 
another_jakhole
Constantly for always.
đź‘Ť
Click to expand...

Define complain.

Also, is it complaining if you're complaining about complainers?

I feel while not as "pure" as the initial complaint, the complaining about the complains is still more than likely complaining.

Love to hear your thoughts. Or you could just complain about me complaining about your complaining about others complaining which would just add another delicious level of irony to this thread.
 
Tenacious D
Amusingly, I did indeed buy an empty box for GT4. :D Almost literally, as there was no game disc in a sealed case. While I broke the speed limit by quite a margin to get to the store the first time, returning was even more of a one man gumball rally. I need to dig up that post sometime.
Click to expand...

I'm all ears :dopey:
 
machschnel
Define complain.

Also, is it complaining if you're complaining about complainers?

I feel while not as "pure" as the initial complaint, the complaining about the complains is still more than likely complaining.

Love to hear your thoughts. Or you could just complain about me complaining about your complaining about others complaining which would just add another delicious level of irony to this thread.
Click to expand...

I don't speak for TD or Jackhole here, but I believe the point being made is it seems no matter what PDI does, people here find something to take issue with.

This place has quite the negative culture.:(
 
sk8er913
Of course not... because that would be too easy. Lol. Actually I think they are creating this system so they can add new cars more easily.
Click to expand...

They are using the "traditional" method (I suppose it's been at least 20 years), though - it's just that the samples are a bit too "traditional", and not very well distributed amongst the cars.

I think this new system is more to make the modified sounds more expressive, reactive to minor changes and more personalisable. Some of that might make things "easier" (such as locating appropriate cars to record for the tuned sounds), but overall it's still a question of data: you need so much data to get so much detail.

Why not use the data in a way that allows you to accurately "morph" between the different states you've collected, instead of being bound only to what you've recorded, like you are with samples?


Kaz's "the sounds are too perfect" comment would, in light of the above, be analogous to his "the circuits are too perfect" comment in the light of the day/night, weather system etc. we got in GT5.
 
Tenacious D
Amusingly, I did indeed buy an empty box for GT4. :D Almost literally, as there was no game disc in a sealed case. While I broke the speed limit by quite a margin to get to the store the first time, returning was even more of a one man gumball rally. I need to dig up that post sometime.
Click to expand...

Story needs more dragons. 2/10.

Tenacious D
Just wanted to pop your absurd premise balloon.
Click to expand...

It is an absurd premise because I am using exaggeration to highlight absurd logic. I do not see what is to congratulate Kaz about in this scenario. He is mentioning that sounds won't be ready at launch so that players (and importantly critics) who immediately buy the game will be less aggravated when they think that nothing has been done.

In short, he is trying to dull the impact that releasing an incomplete game will have, for PD's benefit. I don't think that is particularly worthy of praise, from a players perspective.


Actually there is a third case, but it shifts blame away from your favorite punching bag, Polyphony Digital, so I doubt it will even occur to you.
Click to expand...

The fact that PD couldn't release the updated sounds for launch is the fault of PD alone. Potential delays due to technical faults and the time it takes to record the data should be factored in to any development timeline, just like any other business that has to meet deadlines. In this regard, PD have failed to do that.

Mostly, I just wanted to whine about how every thread turns into a whining thread around here. Unnecessarily so.
Click to expand...

GT6 being launched whilst it is incomplete isn't exactly positive news, so I don't know why you would think you would get universally positive comments about it.

Imari
Whatever positive spin you attempt to put on it, it's a well known (possibly the most well known) issue with GT5, which will not be addressed in GT6 1.0. It may be addressed at a later date, up to and including GT7 1.0.
Click to expand...

Indeed. We will see.
 
Last edited:
Tenacious D
Amusingly, I did indeed buy an empty box for GT4. :D Almost literally, as there was no game disc in a sealed case. While I broke the speed limit by quite a margin to get to the store the first time, returning was even more of a one man gumball rally. I need to dig up that post sometime.

Just wanted to pop your absurd premise balloon.
Click to expand...
I'm confused as to how your anecdote did any such thing. I'd call it mildly interesting at best, but it did nothing to refute his point.
 
HAL20XX
I'm confused as to how your anecdote did any such thing. I'd call it mildly interesting at best, but it did nothing to refute his point.
Click to expand...

I'm sure TD feels that he has now proven that it's not so absurd that someone would pay for an empty GT case because he did. I'm sure if you came up with some other outrageous (to most of the world anyway) statement he'd have an answer for that too.

"I heard that some fanboys toots smell like flowers"

"Well you know, just the other day my friend and I were stuck in an elevator and I let one rip. My friend turned to me and said, Wow dude, your toots smell like roses, keep playing GT6!!"

:)
 
It just seems to be that nearly everything that is said about GT6 is leading to complaints.

Alright, yes, so we may not see the new sounds by the time the game is fully released, but take it this way. The core of the game so that it functions, works, and can actually be playable, can take much more time than one would imagine. PD had to work on a console which many developers claimed, was difficult to develop for, and as a result, there were several games that took longer to be ready for release due to that downside, and in some cases, several games didn't reach the potential they possibly could've. Considering that Gran Turismo 5 was PD's first full-fledged (non-Prologue) title on the system, I didn't expect it to be a nail out of the park.

Many also forget that PD is quite a small team, MUCH smaller than other developers around the same level as PD are. The less people means that the more time a game may take, because it won't be able to rely on as many people to work out with the game to make it better, faster.

Lastly, I'm sure there have been several ideas that PD has been talking around with during the years of development that GT6 was in, which ofcourse AGAIN, can take some time up. It's not like they suddenly know everything they are going to do on the first day, some of the ideas likely come over time.

So, Console that's hard to develop with, Small team, Ideas and Developments that may have been scrapped over time, it really can add up alot of time. If there has to be an update for the sounds, so be it, what should matter is that they actually try to get it out for people, whilst they are working their asses off, making sure that the game is in a playable and acceptable form by the release date. Plus, the games will have to be prepared for being made onto the discs soon, since they need to be made well before they are even ready for the customer. During that time, they can easily get more time to work on the smaller features, to make (hopefully) a good amount of you, happy.

So this is why you don't see me complain about Gran Turismo 6.
 
BloodyThunderX
It just seems to be that nearly everything that is said about GT6 is leading to complaints.

Alright, yes, so we may not see the new sounds by the time the game is fully released, but take it this way. The core of the game so that it functions, works, and can actually be playable, can take much more time than one would imagine. PD had to work on a console which many developers claimed, was difficult to develop for, and as a result, there were several games that took longer to be ready for release due to that downside, and in some cases, several games didn't reach the potential they possibly could've. Considering that Gran Turismo 5 was PD's first full-fledged (non-Prologue) title on the system, I didn't expect it to be a nail out of the park.

Many also forget that PD is quite a small team, MUCH smaller than other developers around the same level as PD are. The less people means that the more time a game may take, because it won't be able to rely on as many people to work out with the game to make it better, faster.

Lastly, I'm sure there have been several ideas that PD has been talking around with during the years of development that GT6 was in, which ofcourse AGAIN, can take some time up. It's not like they suddenly know everything they are going to do on the first day, some of the ideas likely come over time.

So, Console that's hard to develop with, Small team, Ideas and Developments that may have been scrapped over time, it really can add up alot of time. If there has to be an update for the sounds, so be it, what should matter is that they actually try to get it out for people, whilst they are working their asses off, making sure that the game is in a playable and acceptable form by the release date. Plus, the games will have to be prepared for being made onto the discs soon, since they need to be made well before they are even ready for the customer. During that time, they can easily get more time to work on the smaller features, to make (hopefully) a good amount of you, happy.

So this is why you don't see me complain about Gran Turismo 6.
Click to expand...

These are truthful reasons why things are the way they are, I just don't accept them. If you took your car to the mechanic and he said it would be ready tomorrow, then you went in and he said, "I've only got 2 guys working here and they work hard and we're really busy so your car won't be ready until Sunday", would you accept that? Neither would I but that is essentially what you are proposing.

You can buy all the time in the world with money. Add 50 guys to the staff at $50K/year and it's only $2.5Million/yr on a game that should top $700,000,000 in sales and perhaps as much as $1Billion with DLC. There is just no excuse.
 
Johnnypenso
These are truthful reasons why things are the way they are, I just don't accept them. If you took your car to the mechanic and he said it would be ready tomorrow, then you went in and he said, "I've only got 2 guys working here and they work hard and we're really busy so your car won't be ready until Sunday", would you accept that? Neither would I but that is essentially what you are proposing.

You can buy all the time in the world with money. Add 50 guys to the staff at $50K/year and it's only $2.5Million/yr on a game that should top $700,000,000 in sales and perhaps as much as $1Billion with DLC. There is just no excuse.
Click to expand...


This. I made a similar point in the "large patch" thread.

You cannot be Sony's best selling franchise developers and have 150 people. That's just wrong. And that's only part of our collective frustration.
 
BloodyThunderX
Many also forget that PD is quite a small team, MUCH smaller than other developers around the same level as PD are. The less people means that the more time a game may take, because it won't be able to rely on as many people to work out with the game to make it better, faster.
Click to expand...

I don't like this excuse, and I'll explain why.

PD are one of the best funded developers out there. The budget for GT5 was one of the highest of all time at it's release. If anyone has the money, PD does.

They are small not because they have to be like indy developers do, but by choice. They see some benefits to being a small team. If there are some downsides to that, I think that's just something that comes with the choices they made.

Being small is not an excuse when you have the means to be not small if it's causing you problems.


Re: the other stuff. Everyone had to deal with PS3 being difficult. And ideas and developments needing to be scrapped is in one way simply part of the development process and needs to be taken into account, but if it gets over the top it's showing that they're not planning and prototyping the way they should before investing serious amounts of time.
 
A simple quote from someone here, don't like it, don't support it. Theres alternatives but at least PD know change is needed.
 
Johnnypenso
These are truthful reasons why things are the way they are, I just don't accept them. If you took your car to the mechanic and he said it would be ready tomorrow, then you went in and he said, "I've only got 2 guys working here and they work hard and we're really busy so your car won't be ready until Sunday", would you accept that? Neither would I but that is essentially what you are proposing.

You can buy all the time in the world with money. Add 50 guys to the staff at $50K/year and it's only $2.5Million/yr on a game that should top $700,000,000 in sales and perhaps as much as $1Billion with DLC. There is just no excuse.
Click to expand...

I'm not proposing it in that manner, what I'm referring to is how what is likely the largest priority of the game is it's physics engine, playability status, and it's testing to make sure it's all good to go. A video game versus a real life situation is a different ordeal. With a video game, I could live with if people need to take more time than what others may want, where as with a real life situation, Yes, I wouldn't accept a situation like that. So considering how this is just a video game, It's not really bothering me in the least.

I agree on the money sense. 150 people seems decent to some, but in a larger standing that Polyphony has, it's actually rather underwhelming. I already know people in here feel as if I'm using this as an excuse, when really I'm just expressing how I see it. If people feel different, that's fine, everyone looks at everything different, and I won't argue to people on how they should "change" their opinion, because I'm not one to do that.
 
Last edited:
trustjab
A simple quote from someone here, don't like it, don't support it. Theres alternatives but at least PD know change is needed.
Click to expand...

The problem is that there isn't really alternatives. Forza is the only thing that comes close, and the platform divide means that it's a significant investment to switch from one to the other.

The huge car list means that GT will continues to be largely unassailable. Stuff that could have competed like Enthusia and Sega GT died out. There's plenty of games out there that have other features which are better, but can't gather the momentum to be able to afford to model and license such an enormous car list.

No company in their right mind is going to drop $50 million plus to go head to head with GT. It would be financial suicide. Even if you were sure you could blow GT away in every area, it still wouldn't be a safe bet. So we get games that potter around the outside without competing directly.

There is no real incentive for PD to make a good game, other than their own personal pride. They could pump out NFS-esque sequels for the next ten years, and it would probably continue to sell on name alone.
 
NFS Shift is an alternative, GRID is as well. I think the fact there isn't many alternatives shows the good job that Kaz and PD are doing. Not a perfect job, but everything can be improved upon because nothing is perfect.
 
trustjab
NFS Shift is an alternative, GRID is as well. I think the fact there isn't many alternatives shows the good job that Kaz and PD are doing. Not a perfect job, but everything can be improved upon because nothing is perfect.
Click to expand...

Grid is about as much of an alternative as Burnout Paradise. Shift could have been, bar a car list that was an order of magnitude smaller, and it was pretty close on PC once you modded the physics to not be quite so optimistic. As many things as there are wrong with GTs physics, there are very few console games that get anywhere near it.

Does the fact that there's no alternatives really show that PD are doing a good job, or that no one wants to stump up $50 million+ to make a GT clone? Does the fact that there's no real alternatives to Windows mean that Microsoft are doing a good job, or just that they're such a dominant force that no one wants to go up against them?

P.S. I'm aware that non-Windows operating systems are available, but none of them that really compete unless you're an enthusiast or have a specific application in mind. There's a reason people just assume that PCs are using Windows. Try and take the comparison in the spirit that it's meant, and not nit pick it to death.
 
Johnnypenso
These are truthful reasons why things are the way they are, I just don't accept them. If you took your car to the mechanic and he said it would be ready tomorrow, then you went in and he said, "I've only got 2 guys working here and they work hard and we're really busy so your car won't be ready until Sunday", would you accept that? Neither would I but that is essentially what you are proposing.

You can buy all the time in the world with money. Add 50 guys to the staff at $50K/year and it's only $2.5Million/yr on a game that should top $700,000,000 in sales and perhaps as much as $1Billion with DLC. There is just no excuse.
Click to expand...
That's silly. You're being silly again, right?
 

Similar threads

Famine
Proposal for Original Gran Turismo Revealed in Kazunori Yamauchi Interview
2
Replies
39
Views
7K
Mr_D
Mr_D
Famine
“My First Gran Turismo” May Expand With Updates in the Future, and Why It Was Made
2
Replies
40
Views
7K
Mick Tee
Mick Tee
Jordan
Gran Turismo is "Taking on New Challenges", says Kazunori Yamauchi
3 4 5
Replies
132
Views
19K
equalitus
equalitus
Jordan
How the Creator of Gran Turismo Wants Motorsport to Change
2
Replies
39
Views
6K
Just Raven
Just Raven
Famine
How You Play Gran Turismo 7 Depends on Your Age, says Kazunori Yamauchi
4 5 6
Replies
164
Views
19K
Dave A
Dave A

Latest Posts

Back